The Bulwark Podcast: Episode Summary Episode Title: Mark Hertling: Aiding and Abetting a War Criminal
Release Date: March 12, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller and General Mark Hertling
Description: In this episode, Tim Miller engages in a profound discussion with retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, delving into the complexities of U.S. foreign policy, particularly concerning Ukraine, NATO, and the broader implications of current political maneuvers. The conversation also touches on domestic policy challenges and the increasing politicization of military institutions.

1. Introduction and News Updates

Tim Miller opens the episode with a briefing on recent political developments:

• Government Budget: The House has passed a continuing resolution to keep the government open, supported by only one Democrat, Jared Golden of Maine. This bill now moves to the Senate, where it requires seven votes to pass. Miller anticipates a strategic battle as Senate Democrats may oppose the resolution, especially considering its implications for D.C.

  "The House passed a budget to keep the government open. It was a continuing resolution with support from one Democrat, Jared Golden of Maine." [00:45]

• D.C. Budget Cuts: A contentious aspect of the budget includes $1.1 billion in cuts to the D.C. budget, potentially affecting policing, healthcare, and other public services. Miller criticizes the bill for not saving any money, suggesting it targets D.C. out of resentment rather than fiscal responsibility.

  "It is just the cruelty is the point all the way down. It is just revenge and resentment and going after these big city Liberals." [01:30]

• Economic Polls on Trump: A new CNN poll reveals that Donald Trump's approval rating on the economy is at a historic low, with 56% opposition, underlining the current economic turmoil exacerbated by President Trump's policies.

  "The polls confirmed that this morning. Meanwhile, the Russians didn't really change their operations any." [02:10]

• Internal Blame on Administration: Politico reports suggest internal attempts to pin economic woes on Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, attributing job cuts and market instability to Trump's trade wars.

  "It's telling that even inside the administration, they're recognizing the trouble they're in on economic matters." [02:50]

2. Economic Critique of Trump's Policies

Tim Miller elaborates on the negative impact of Trump's economic policies, particularly the trade wars and their repercussions on both the federal workforce and private sector layoffs. He criticizes the administration for seemingly using economic instability as a political tool against D.C.

"But it's telling that even inside the administration, they're recognizing the trouble they're in on economic matters." [02:50]

3. Deep Dive on Foreign Policy with Mark Hertling

Introduction of General Mark Hertling:
Tim introduces Mark Hertling, highlighting his military background and expertise in European affairs.

"Delighted to welcome back a retired lieutenant general and the former commanding general of the US army in Europe." [03:33]

a. Ceasefire in Ukraine and Complicity in War Crimes

General Hertling expresses skepticism about the proposed ceasefire between Ukraine and Russia, drawing parallels to Russia's history of frozen conflicts in Europe. He argues that the U.S. administration's approach, including halting intelligence sharing, inadvertently aids Russian war efforts.

"I would even go to the point, Tim, where we were complicit and maybe even accessory to war crimes over those couple of days..." [07:37]

Miller concurs, emphasizing the moral implications of U.S. actions that may have facilitated Russian attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and civilians.

"You have to refrain from becoming furious so many times every single day to just not react to this kind of craziness." [44:37]

b. Potential Frozen Conflicts in Europe

Hertling draws from his military experience to outline Russia's strategy of instigating and maintaining frozen conflicts in regions like Transnistria, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Abkhazia. He warns that a similar outcome in Ukraine could severely undermine Ukraine's sovereignty and benefit Russian geopolitical interests.

"When you talk about a ceasefire which includes a 700 mile front in the four occupied territories... it gives Russia a foot forward in controlling the country." [12:23]

c. NATO's Future and Russia's Strategy

Discussing NATO, Hertling questions whether the alliance can remain united without significant U.S. support. He highlights internal conflicts within European militaries and leadership struggles, suggesting that Russia could exploit these divisions.

"The question is going to be there, truthfully, is, as Rumfeld once said, an old Europe and a new Europe." [25:43]

4. Political Responses and Critique

a. Dan Crenshaw's Commentary and Rebuttal

Tim reads a statement from Congressman Dan Crenshaw, who lauds the U.S. administration's handling of the Ukraine ceasefire, asserting that it holds Putin accountable and preserves American strategic deterrence. Hertling vehemently disagrees, labeling Crenshaw's comments as overly optimistic and disconnected from the realities on the ground.

"Crenshaw... talking through his ass. You know, he would like all those things to be true, but none of them are." [19:44]

b. Impact on US-Europe Relations, Tariffs, and Trade War

Miller and Hertling discuss the retaliatory tariffs imposed by the EU in response to Trump's 25% tariffs on U.S. steel and aluminum. They analyze the broader implications for U.S.-Europe relations, noting that such economic conflicts exacerbate existing political tensions and undermine security cooperation.

"That, quite frankly, is a third of the size of the Californian GDP." [28:10]

5. Domestic Policy Implications

a. Cuts to Department of Education and VA

The conversation shifts to domestic policy, with Miller expressing frustration over proposed massive cuts to the Department of Education and the Veterans Affairs (VA). Hertling underscores the critical role of the VA in supporting veterans, highlighting the potential human cost of these budget cuts.

"It's mind boggling to me. You can't predict the repercussions of the slices to people who work in the VA facilities." [32:39]

b. Politicalization of the Military and Appointments

Hertling criticizes the recent military appointments, particularly pointing out concerns over nominees like Dan Raisin Cain for Joint Chiefs Chairman. He warns against the increasing politicization of military roles, arguing that it compromises the integrity and effectiveness of military institutions.

"I do worry about the continued politicization of the military by the current Department of Defense secretary and others." [36:32]

6. Reaction to Elon Musk's Comments

The hosts address Elon Musk's derogatory remarks towards Senator Mark Kelly, where Musk labels Kelly a "traitor." Hertling condemns Musk's comments, emphasizing the disservice such statements do to national unity and respect for military service members.

"It just, it's mind blowing in terms of the ridiculousness of it." [43:28]

Miller shares his personal frustration with Musk's behavior, connecting it to broader issues of disrespect and incivility in public discourse.

"I felt like I needed to get it off my chest." [45:00]

7. Conclusion with Humor

To lighten the intense discussion, Tim plays a comedic clip featuring Bill Burr critiquing Elon Musk. This segment serves as a brief respite, allowing listeners to end the episode on a lighter note.

"This is why I hate liberals. It's like liberals have no teeth whatsoever." [48:09]

Final Remarks:
Tim and Hertling wrap up the episode by acknowledging the gravity of the topics discussed and the challenges ahead. Hertling emphasizes the need for ethical leadership and personal courage within governmental institutions.

"There are seven army values. And one of them is personal courage." [46:06]

Key Takeaways:

• U.S. Foreign Policy: The administration's handling of the Ukraine ceasefire may inadvertently support Russian objectives, raising concerns about complicity in war crimes and the effectiveness of diplomatic strategies.

• NATO and European Security: Internal divisions within NATO and European militaries could weaken collective defense mechanisms, potentially emboldening Russian aggression.

• Economic Tensions: Tariffs and retaliatory measures between the U.S. and the EU are straining crucial alliances, with significant economic and security implications.

• Domestic Challenges: Budget cuts to essential departments like the VA pose serious threats to veterans' welfare and the integrity of public services.

• Military Integrity: The politicization of military appointments undermines institutional trust and operational effectiveness, highlighting the need for depoliticized leadership.

• Public Discourse: Incivility from influential figures like Elon Musk exacerbates political polarization and diminishes respect for military and governmental institutions.

This episode offers a critical examination of current political and military strategies, emphasizing the importance of ethical leadership and cohesive international alliances in maintaining global stability.