The Bulwark Podcast
Episode: Mark Hertling and Ruben Gallego: A Rush to War
Date: March 3, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: Lieutenant General (Ret.) Mark Hertling, Senator Ruben Gallego
Overview
This episode features military analyst Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling and Senator Ruben Gallego, a Marine veteran, discussing the deepening U.S. conflict with Iran, the chaotic rationale and execution behind the U.S. and Israeli rush to war, the strategic, political, and moral failures underpinning current events, and broader implications for American leadership and military families. The conversation explores operational realities, stockpile concerns, and the failures of both messaging and planning, bringing a human perspective deeply informed by personal experiences in combat.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Lack of Strategic Clarity and Mixed Objectives
[02:54 – 09:18]
- Hertling underscores the absence of an articulated end state for the U.S. military:
- “From what I can tell, there’s more messaging of exactly what the end state is. And that’s important to the military commanders.”
- Mixed signals coming from U.S. leaders:
- U.S. may be aiming merely to "destroy as much stuff as possible," while Israel’s campaign resembles a comprehensive decapitation of Iran’s leadership.
- Hertling highlights that Iranian institutions, not personalities, sustain power: “Their leadership isn’t based on personalities, it’s based on institutions.” [06:00]
- Tim Miller notes tensions between U.S. and Israeli objectives:
- "If our goal is continuity in Iran’s regime and Israel is just killing anybody that could possibly take over… that’s a pretty important tension." [04:28]
2. Confusing Public Messaging, Media, and Administration Talking Points
[07:14 – 11:07]
- Hertling critiques administration surrogates (notably Secretary Hegseth) for shallow, tactical explanations lacking strategic intent.
- Emphasis from public Republicans (e.g., JD Vance, Marco Rubio) on “obliterating Iran’s nuclear capacity” without offering a vision for the political future.
3. U.S. Munition Stockpiles and Logistical Realities
[11:07 – 16:39]
- Hertling details the strain on U.S. weapons:
- “We have been using quite a bit over the last couple of years… 2,500 strikes in a four-day period… that’s a whole lot of precision weapons.” [11:59]
- Explains difference between U.S. and foreign munitions supplies, and how current usage could threaten global contingency plans (“bean counters in the Pentagon… raise the flag”).
- Targets being hit aren’t always cost-effective: “I’m not gonna waste $100,000 missile on a $10,000 truck.” [12:59]
4. The Pretext and Preparation for War
[16:39 – 20:03]
- Marco Rubio claims the “imminent threat” was anticipated retaliation for an Israeli attack; U.S. action was preemptive to minimize casualties ([17:06])
- Miller and Hertling: "That makes no sense at all to me... It's not part of our existential approach to providing security." [18:11]
- U.S. dependence on Israel’s timeline criticized; lack of Agency and poor force protection for U.S. personnel.
5. Preparedness, Force Protection, and Evolving Threats
[20:03 – 28:57]
- The attack on a “makeshift” U.S. operations center in Kuwait exposes lack of adequate defenses.
- Hertling: “It does have some defenses… but when you say fortified, you think this grand fort. It is not that.” [24:36]
- Growing threat and cost of Iranian Shahed drones: “Can’t afford to shoot a $2 million Patriot missile at a $20,000 Shahed drone.” [25:46]
6. Civilian Evacuations and Strategic Hubris
[27:32 – 31:52]
- Urgent “depart now” order for Americans in 14 countries reveals lack of pre-war evacuation planning.
- Hertling: “When you’re doing an evacuation after a war started, you’re asking for trouble... I think the President was enamored by what happened in a very precise and surgical strike in Venezuela, and he thought he could do the same thing in Iran… the Middle East by nature is extremely complex.” [28:57]
7. Uncertain Timeframes and Iranian Resilience
[32:19 – 33:22]
- U.S. strategic timelines keep shifting; Iran believes it can outlast the U.S.
- Memorable story: “General, you have to understand, you may have the watch, but we have the time.” [33:11]
Mark Hertling on His Book: If I Don’t Return: A Father’s Wartime Journal
[34:56 – 47:54]
- Written as daily journal entries during deployment in the Gulf War I, initially in expectation of possibly not returning home: “If I don’t come home, what can I leave my boys that will help them grow to be men?” [35:36]
- Book is structured as original entries plus retrospectives, covering topics like love, fear, friendship, emotions, and leadership.
- Hertling: “This isn’t a war book… it’s a book about family and about love and about leadership. And then after all those things, it’s a book about war.” [41:30]
- Reflections on personal growth: initial fear for himself evolved into deep responsibility for others in command in later wars.
- On emotion and vulnerability: “I cry at both happy and sad events… because they haven’t [lived], I have to earn it for them.” [46:18]
Notable Quotes
- “You have to realize that there might be an unfortunate situation where you’re going to have to put your life on the line… and that was one of my transformations.” [39:18 – Hertling]
- “You may have the watch, but we have the time.” [33:16 – Hertling recounting an Iraqi counterpart]
Humor and Humanity
- Jokes about the book being a great “bathroom book”; discussion of cursing (“Fuck, yeah.” [44:53 – Hertling]) and the difference between obscenity and profanity.
- On male vulnerability and crying: “It is a good male message actually. Crying and being in touch with your emotions is important…” [47:26 – Miller]
Senator Ruben Gallego: Moral Clarity and Political Accountability
[48:21 – 70:59]
1. The Human Cost of War
- Gallego’s personal stake: “My friends died, my best friend died… 23 men of my company died in another war that was hastily decided to go to, a war of choice… I just don't want another generation… to be dealing with this.” [48:41]
2. On “Revenge” as a Rationale
- “Don’t use that as an excuse for us to engage, get us involved in another illegal war… Don’t do that in our name.” [50:35]
- Importance of leadership: “When you’re a leader, you don’t go after other countries and put your men and women at risk for your personal feelings.” [52:22]
3. Flawed Justifications and Leadership
- Critiques the reliance on “feelings” and Israel’s timeline as rationale:
- “Where is the force protection? Where is the proper ammunition? Where's the exit plan?” [48:41]
- “We could have done more to stop Israel from doing a preemptive strike on Iran… it seems like we just either wanted this to happen, or just didn't know how to stop it.” [54:14]
4. Lack of Exit Plan – the “Leroy Jenkins” Approach
- Gallego slams administration for rushing in without a vision for getting out:
- “They literally don’t have an exit plan… we're just going to kill a bunch of their leadership and kind of see what happens. Leroy Jenkins.” [55:44]
5. Administrative Chaos and Counter-Intelligence Failures
- Notes recent firings at FBI targeting Iran experts for their roles in investigating Trump, undermining readiness: “They knew this was coming, I guess… and they fired the counterintel experts on Iran.” [57:48]
6. Democratic Messaging on War and Immigration
- Urges Democrats to speak directly to public fears:
- “People are sick of war, man. They're just so sick of war. It's okay for us to say, this is not our war. This is not the timing for us to do this.” [61:02]
- On immigration: prioritize moral clarity, oppose ICE/DHS overreach, and push for targeted enforcement on criminals, not ordinary workers. [63:09]
7. Politics and Endorsements
- Defends endorsement of Graham Platner in Maine Senate race, pushing back against attacks over alleged “anti-Israel” or anti-Semitic implications. [65:40]
- “We want people to be authentic… but I guess they could only be perfect. In order for them to do that, they actually can't have lived experience.” [67:27]
- On old politicians: “Janet Mills can't win… how are you going to send an 80-year-old… it's a change election.” [65:53]
Notable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)
- Hertling [03:15]: “From what I can tell, there’s more messaging of exactly what the end state is. And that’s important to the military commanders.”
- Miller [04:28]: “It seems like that’s a pretty important tension.”
- Hertling [06:00]: “Their leadership isn’t based on personalities, it’s based on institutions.”
- Rubio [17:06]: “There absolutely was an imminent threat. And the imminent threat was that we knew that if Iran was attacked, and we believed they would be attacked, that they would immediately come after us…”
- Miller [18:11]: “It seems like the imminent threat came from Israel.”
- Hertling [18:11]: “Israel caused all this by saying they were going to attack, and as a result of that, we have a preemptive response to some other nation attacking that could cause a regional conflict. Okay, got it, Marco. That makes no sense at all to me.”
- Gallego [48:41]: “It’s not that hard. My friends died, my best friend died… And I just don’t want another generation of men and women to be dealing with this.”
- Gallego [50:35]: “Don’t use that as an excuse for us to engage… get us involved in another illegal war, another war that’s going to cause more and more people. Don’t do that in our name.”
- Gallego [52:22]: “When you’re a leader, you don’t go after other countries and put your men and women at risk for your personal feelings.”
- Gallego [55:44]: “They literally don’t have an exit plan. … We’re just going to kill a bunch of their leadership and kind of see what happens. Leroy Jenkins.”
- Hertling [33:16]: “You may have the watch, but we have the time.” (Saying from an Iraqi counterpart about U.S. impatience.)
Segment Timestamps
- Main Interview with Mark Hertling: [01:25 – 47:54]
- Sen. Ruben Gallego Interview: [47:55 – 70:59]
- (Advertisements trimmed)
Tone and Style
- Candid, wry, and often darkly humorous.
- Both guests combine policy expertise with personal insight and emotional realism.
- Willing to critique both Democratic and Republican leadership, with an explicit focus on real-world consequences for troops and families.
Takeaways for Listeners
- The U.S. engagement with Iran is marked by strategic drift, ambiguous goals, and a lack of meaningful forethought, especially regarding long-term consequences.
- There’s a powerful disconnect between high-level political rhetoric and on-the-ground military and human realities.
- Veterans and military families carry the costs of these lapses; their voices reveal stakes ignored in political calculations.
- The “rush to war” is not just a military disaster in the making, but a moral and political failure—one demanding greater accountability and candor from leaders.
Further Reading:
- Mark Hertling, If I Don’t Return: A Father’s Wartime Journal
- Bulwark+ for more real-time political analysis and community
End of Summary