The Bulwark Podcast: Michael Weiss and Jonathan Cohn – "Animal House at the Pentagon"

Release Date: June 26, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Tim Miller – Host
• Michael Weiss – Emmy-winning editor of The Insider
• Jonathan Cohn – Contributor and author of "The Breakdown" newsletter

1. Celebrating Michael Weiss’s Emmy Win

The episode kicks off with Tim Miller congratulating Michael Weiss on winning an Emmy for The Insider’s joint investigation into Havana Syndrome alongside 60 Minutes and Der Spiegel. Weiss humorously remarks on not receiving a physical statue but gaining a crucial data point for Wikipedia, emphasizing the symbolic victory over tangible rewards.

Notable Quote:

• Tim Miller [01:48]: "You were made to be rechargeable."

2. Havana Syndrome: Unveiling the Truth

Michael Weiss delves into the latest findings on Havana Syndrome, asserting that recent intelligence confirms the victims were indeed struck by a directed energy device, debunking earlier theories of sociogenic or psychosomatic origins. He highlights an internal NSC meeting where key intelligence members validated the targeted attacks, implicating a foreign state actor—likely Russia’s GRU unit 29155.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Weiss [03:31]: "There is evidence that has now come through to the IC... a foreign state actor... is responsible for doing this to American servicemen and women abroad."
• Tim Miller [06:43]: "I gotta get Mark on the pod now. I owe him one."

3. Assessing the Pentagon’s “Hex” Operation Against Iran

The conversation shifts to the Pentagon’s recent bombing of Iran’s Fordow nuclear facility, dubbed “Hex” by President Trump. Michael Weiss provides a nuanced analysis, suggesting that while significant damage was inflicted on Iran’s centrifuges, the complete obliteration of the nuclear program remains uncertain. He criticizes Trump’s oversimplified portrayal of the operation’s success and underscores the complex intelligence landscape that now shapes future military and diplomatic strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Weiss [11:26]: "It's very likely that Fordo has been damaged to the point almost of disrepair, it's not operational."
• Tim Miller [19:10]: "Have you seen anything?"

4. The Strained Relationship Between Trump and the Intelligence Community

Weiss discusses the deteriorating trust between President Trump and the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC). He points out that Trump’s skepticism towards his own intelligence agencies undermines national security efforts and fuels conspiracy theories within his base. This mistrust complicates coordinated responses to threats and diminishes the credibility of official assessments.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Weiss [17:46]: "The IC will be completely and utterly discredited again..."
• Tim Miller [21:35]: "Now you're saying."

5. NATO Dynamics and European Defense Spending

Jonathan Cohn and Michael Weiss explore the recent NATO meetings, highlighting the tension between the U.S. and European allies over defense spending. They critique Senator Lindsey Graham’s attempt to impose stringent tariffs on Russian imports as part of a broader reconciliation bill, noting that the bill’s initial drafting was flawed and would inadvertently penalize European nations striving to reduce their dependency on Russian energy.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Cohn [41:01]: "He’s got an 84 Senate member veto-proof majority on board to pass this thing..."
• Michael Weiss [47:10]: "The defense without flattering data."

6. Reconciliation Bill: Healthcare Cuts and Congressional Challenges

The episode extensively covers the Republican-led reconciliation bill aimed at imposing substantial cuts to Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). Jonathan Cohn explains that the bill seeks to remove a trillion dollars from federal healthcare programs, which would result in approximately 11 million Americans losing health insurance and numerous rural hospitals facing closures. The discussion highlights the parliamentarian’s recent ruling that significant portions of these cuts cannot be included in the bill, forcing lawmakers to either overrule the decision or scale back their plans.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Cohn [58:55]: "A lot of them are going to struggle. We’re already seeing rural hospitals closing."
• Tim Miller [65:01]: "It really is."

7. Impact on Americans and the Healthcare Landscape

Cohn emphasizes the tangible effects of the proposed healthcare cuts on everyday Americans, particularly low-income and working-class individuals who rely heavily on Medicaid and Obamacare for their medical needs. He shares personal anecdotes of individuals facing increased healthcare costs, loss of coverage, and the dire consequences of reduced access to medical services.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Cohn [59:03]: "Some of them are going to just go into deeper financial distress and some are going to get sick and die."
• Tim Miller [66:19]: "That’s really what we want, we want to make it as hard as possible for people to get health care."

8. Legislative Hurdles and Future Projections

The hosts discuss the legislative roadblocks ahead for the reconciliation bill, contemplating whether Republicans will attempt to override the parliamentarian’s decision or modify the bill to include fewer cuts. They anticipate further complications and potential delays, acknowledging that the rush to pass the bill may result in inadequate scrutiny and public awareness of its provisions.

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Cohn [73:02]: "If you work in government... you have to put up with these sort of critical and in some cases, severely skeptical questions."
• Tim Miller [70:34]: "Is that a good assessment?"

9. Closing Remarks and Future Discussions

Tim Miller wraps up the episode by highlighting the significance of the reconciliation bill's impacts compared to other political issues, urging listeners to stay informed through Jonathan Cohn’s newsletter, "The Breakdown." He emphasizes the importance of understanding the bill’s ramifications on healthcare and the broader socio-economic fabric of the nation.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller [73:55]: "It's one of these things where... it might be the thing that ends up affecting people's lives the most directly."
• Jonathan Cohn [75:19]: "Line two, your second line, simplified."

Takeaways:

• Havana Syndrome: Recent intelligence confirms targeted attacks using directed energy devices, implicating foreign state actors.
• Pentagon’s Operation Hex: Significant damage to Iran’s nuclear facilities, but full assessment pending; Trump’s portrayal may oversimplify the operation’s success.
• Intelligence Community Trust: Erosion of trust between Trump and the IC undermines national security and fosters conspiracy theories.
• NATO and Defense Spending: Tensions within NATO over defense contributions; flawed reconciliation bill could strain U.S.-European relations.
• Reconciliation Bill Impacts: Massive cuts to Medicaid and Obamacare threaten millions of Americans, especially those reliant on federal healthcare programs.
• Legislative Challenges: Parliamentarian’s rulings constrain the bill’s scope, leading to potential compromises or delays in passing significant healthcare reforms.

Final Thoughts: This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a deep dive into crucial national security issues and legislative battles that have profound implications for both domestic policy and international relations. Michael Weiss and Jonathan Cohn provide insightful analysis on Havana Syndrome, the Pentagon’s actions against Iran, and the contentious reconciliation bill, shedding light on the complexities and consequences of these developments.