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- [00:00]
Unknown Nephew
I'mma put you on, nephew. All right, unc.
- [00:02]
Mike Murphy
Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?
- [00:04]
Unknown Nephew
I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.
- [00:28]
Tim Miller
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back veteran political strategist of the McCain, Schwarzenegger, Romney and Jeb campaigns and a bunch of others. He's also the co host to Hacks on tapp, co director of the center for Political Future at usc, and he runs the American EV Jobs alliance, which he is pimping with a placard right over his right shoulder. It has. Mike Murphy. What's up, man?
- [00:51]
Mike Murphy
There it is. By the way, China's winning. I'm good. Tim, how are you? Always a hoot to be here, even if it's at gas. God, what time is it out here? 7 Something in California.
- [01:02]
Tim Miller
I appreciate you getting up at 7:45 for me this morning, Murphy. I really do. I'm doing pretty good. I saw the Scissor Sisters last night, hanging out with a couple of the sisters. So we enjoyed ourselves. And I came home to some exclusive audio of Donald Trump. Usually on this podcast, we don't play Donald Trump's voice, but we're gonna make an exception in this case because this is our president as. As covered, let's say, by Matt and Trey Stone of South park in the opening episode of the season last night. Let's listen.
- [01:37]
Mike Murphy
Hey. Hey. What the is this, brother? This is the painting you asked for, sir. Why is my dick so small? But that's the size it is in the photo. Get this guy out of here. I'm gonna sue you. I'm gonna shoot.
- [01:55]
Tim Miller
Straight from his mouth. Mike Murphy, I don't know if you've seen any of the other clips from south park last night, but it is brutal. It's important to know the context. Here they are on. It's a Paramount project. Paramount just re upped for 1.5 billion with south park to get the library and a couple more seasons. And they're in this little merger fight and Matt and Trey went right at them last night. It's pretty delicious.
- [02:17]
Mike Murphy
Good for them. Good for them.
- [02:19]
Tim Miller
A nice contrast with Columbia University, you know, and all.
- [02:23]
Mike Murphy
Oh, yeah. I guess they paid some hostage money today. What was 200 million?
- [02:27]
Tim Miller
220. Cool. 220 million for. I don't know, something.
- [02:31]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, for thinking. Yeah, for allowing one of the new crimes of the first order for allowing.
- [02:37]
Tim Miller
Their students to have views counter of some people in the Trump administration, not others, by the way. Actually, there's some pretty strong anti Israel people in the Trump administration. But, yeah, I think I enjoyed it mostly just because. And it's just. It's refreshing in this moment to see somebody just not only not capitulate, but just poke their finger in his eye and say, come at me. I think that there's a lot of folks who, I don't know. I think that he has been very bad, but at some level, I think the fear at elite levels is not commensurate with the actual demonstration of power. Do you think that's. Do you think that's fair?
- [03:13]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, I think this is all. I mean, I'm in the Trump hate bubble and I have been for 25 years, so maybe I'm out of my mind and I'm kind of like the crazy guy in the back of the bus saying, they're coming, they're coming in the beginning of the Alien movie. And everybody rolls their eyes and, you know, three minutes of script time later, the Pentagon's blowing up from a Reagan. But it feels like it's turning a little. Yeah, I did a thing last night for organization. Pretty lefty zoom talk with the great Paul Maslin, the Democratic pollster, and there's lots of, oh, he's finally broken from the Epstein scandal. Maga's gonna. No, no, no, no, no. But it is turning. You're seeing people from at least the Trump industrial profit conspiracy complex starting to poke back. You're seeing kind of a weariness to it all. Maga's starting to feel a little bit like the troops on the eighth year of an endless war. I mean, there's just, you know, he's becoming a little more of a figure of wackiness. And of course, the big macroeconomic stuff, you know, it's gonna get him in the midterms, I think. So, yeah. This is a weird analogy for your other, you know, old listeners like me, but there's a great old movie, the Dam Busters, and there's this wonderful scene. They're trying to invent the skipping bomb to break the dam to flood the Ruhr Valley to win the war. But they're in the impregnable dam and our heroes are all getting killed doing the skipping bomb. But one hits and the Germans are there. And all of a sudden, like, the glass of tea starts to wiggle on the top of the dam. And, you know, there's A crack. And of course, next thing you know, the dam's gonna burst and we're gonna play patriotic music.
- [04:54]
Tim Miller
Is that a black and white movie?
- [04:56]
Mike Murphy
Dam Busters. I can't remember if it's black and white or not.
- [04:59]
Tim Miller
Is that a silence?
- [05:00]
Mike Murphy
It's one of the best. It's like all great British war movies. They didn't quite win, but they make a great movie out of it, you know. But anyway, it's fun to watch. Cause that the puddles of water in the coffee cup is a great little techni. It feels like that to me now. I feel the Virginia midterms are going to be a bad narrative Virginia this year. Much like 93 was in the Republican Party to set up 94. So, yeah, I feel like the thing is starting to turn and these are all symptoms.
- [05:29]
Tim Miller
I want to get into the Epstein stuff more specifically, but just on that kind of meta narrative turning to me, one thing, I feel like he's lost in the Epstein thing, which is not like you're saying like, MAGA breaking from him or whatever, but he's lost a little bit this status with. With certain folks in the culture, particularly in this manosphere, the Rogan kind of world, of being like the anti politician.
- [05:52]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, I totally agree.
- [05:53]
Tim Miller
He's such a real. He's like the. You know, those guys all want to poke. Poke at the establishment. And, you know, they have some legit complaints and they have some conspiracies. They want to be like, these guys aren't looking out for you, they're out to get you. But Trump, he's an outsider. You know, he came from the business world. It was all bullshit. We all knew it was bullshit. It worked on those people. He felt like an outsider. Right now he's feeling like a very typical politician covering up a scandal that he doesn't want people to know about him and his rich friends and what they were doing with young girls. And he doesn't want to be made fun of and he was going to sue anybody that criticizes him. I just think that he's making himself extremely vulnerable to backlash among obviously the south park guys and Rogan world and that world. And those were key. I mean, those aren't the cultists in the red hat, but they were a key part of. Of his coalition and the kind of above. A key part of the cultural narrative about what's happening.
- [06:46]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, he started out as Mr. Authenticity. Wow. He's an asshole. And he says asshole things and he's not part of politics. Tell me more. He fired Gilbert Gottfried on the Apprentice. He must be a business genius. And then you can see it in the polling data after he lost. Well, he's a bullshitter and kind of a creep. But he's our bullshitter and our creep, and he's part of the mission, and he's authentic. Now all of a sudden, it's. Well, he's kind of a bullshitter. Definite. And maybe he's been bullshitting us.
- [07:15]
Tim Miller
Yeah, right.
- [07:16]
Mike Murphy
You know, which is exactly what you say. That's the kryptonite. Wait a minute. He's a politician. Maybe you can't believe everything he says. Maybe there's an agenda here besides the movement, the mission. And, you know, Elon's part of this. Elon's. And who knows with Elon? Tomorrow Elon can show up in a chicken suit and announce that he's gonna move to a farm. But the guy did spend 300 million last time.
- [07:37]
Tim Miller
Why would he want to move to a farm if he's in the chicken suit? That'd make him a target, I think.
- [07:42]
Mike Murphy
True, true, true. Yeah, he'd wind up in a McDonald's, drive through in a little box. But he's kind of trying to invent this crypto, bro. Libertarian Party and all this, it's one, to resonate with that group. But two, he's picking spending, which, as you well know, that's been an evergreen issue in the party that we've given away, and that has power to come back outside of Trump, and Trump's a total debt criminal. So, yeah, you just. As I say, the turn you see all these little things. You know, it's like the. You look outside the window, and all of a sudden, once in eight years, you see a cat chasing a dog down the. I mean, things are getting a little weird. And that's a sign.
- [08:22]
Tim Miller
You hate to hand it to Elon, but this ties to the other big story of the day that broke after we taped yesterday, which is the Wall Street Journal story that indicates that Trump was briefed that he was in the Epstein files by Pam Bondi in May.
- [08:37]
Mike Murphy
Right.
- [08:38]
Tim Miller
So two months ago. So he knew about this. That timeline matches pretty closely with Elon and Trump's falling out and Elon tweeting Trump is in the Epstein files. There's a lot of talk back then. It's like that. Just Elon bullshitting, being a poster, trying to poke at him or whatever. Sounds like maybe Elon knew the truth, right? Because it was getting around. And I'm interested in your take on this. Because this Wall Street Journal story is important because back to Trump being a traditional politician, this makes it a traditional cover up story.
- [09:09]
Mike Murphy
Exactly. It's fitting a new architecture that people know from politics, but it's uncomfortable for them for their mega hero to be in the middle of it.
- [09:17]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And now I think it gives opportunity. Right. Like if the Democrats take back the House. If you're right about the midterms right now, it's not just like, oh, well, maybe Trump was lying, maybe he was overselling that, or Maybe he was BSing about the Epstein files. Now it's like, no, we can subpoena Pam Bondi and Cash Patel and we can subpoena the people that were reviewing the files to come up with information about Trump and do the old Howard Baker stuff, you know, what'd you know? When did you know it? Right. And I do. I think that makes the Epstein story meaningfully different from even where it was two weeks ago. I don't know. What do you think about that?
- [09:52]
Mike Murphy
No, no, I think this thing. I mean, first of all, if you step back, it's all starting to fit together in the narrative that makes obvious sense. Is Trump a bullshitter?
- [10:00]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [10:01]
Mike Murphy
Is he a pervert? Well, yeah. You know, would he want to cover up the files if he were in them? Yeah. Might he be in them? Well, they were kind of buddies. And every day a little dribble, little weird note or whatever comes out. So of course he's in the files and of course he's a politician. Back to what you were saying before. So, yeah, it's all starting to fit together in a thing that will make sense to the average, let alone the maga conspiracy oriented observer. And the Dems have little breadcrumbs they can keep nipping at. And if they get the house. You're right. Then they can be totally in that business forever. I mean, where's the autopsy? It's a, you know, the whole. Well, we have the security footage. Yeah. Of the parking lot in another building. Okay. You proved that an elite team of commandos did not land in the other building and not go to Epstein's cell. You know. Wow. Persuaded. The real thing is the autopsy, which should be easy to release, yet, you know, cause of death.
- [10:59]
Tim Miller
Are you on the Epstein might not have killed himself side of things?
- [11:01]
Mike Murphy
Murph, I am on the. I don't know what happens. I tend to be an establishment of whatever the lamest, greediest human activity explanation is will always be true. It's like National Enquirer. Yeah. They paid somebody the chauffeur it's probably true, but the fact that they won't release the autopsy thing irks me. And a lot of the serious journalists who have obsessively covered this, I've obsessively avoided it. Nothing bores me in the world more than perv cover up stories of Donald Trump because I kind of already assumed it's all true and bad. The autopsy thing, it's weird. Release it, Donald. Release it. What are you hiding?
- [11:37]
Tim Miller
The money stuff is also weird that Wyatt and brought up like, where is that? Where was this guy's money coming from? Nobody really knows. It's very. Anyway. Okay, well, much more to discover on that. The other. The couple of the other interesting side plots here, really. Debstein, some ramifications for from hiring the Keystone Cops are coming into play here. Two of my favorite little parts of the Wall Street Journal story were not about the Trump part. One was that Cash Patel was telling people Trump was in the files. Usually when you're FBI director, you're looking for somebody that's gonna be a little bit tighter with information, but he picked.
- [12:10]
Mike Murphy
Cash Patel, I would think.
- [12:11]
Tim Miller
And then you have Dan Bongino, who apparently was like Red Face, screaming at Pam Bondi, telling her she's an idiot and she's part of a cover up, et cetera, et cetera, you know.
- [12:19]
Mike Murphy
Meanwhile, the Chinese are walking out the door with the stealth bomber plans because the FBI's running around and we literally have a moron in the number two job and the number one, a clown in the number one job. Yeah. So while they're checking the clown shoes for microphones, you know, Chinese espionage, I'm sure, is running wild. Their new fighter plane, literally. There was a story in the defense paper about it there. The one that Pakistan used to shoot some Western fighters down for the first time, literally has like McDonnell Douglas, Dallas, Texas stamped on the parts because there's a lot of copied tech in there. So meanwhile, we're. We're doing this MAGA clown circus. You know, the one Epstein thing, when I think about it, if he were alive, he'd probably be in the Cabinet.
- [12:59]
Tim Miller
Well, or pardoned, at least.
- [13:03]
Mike Murphy
Think about it. Secretary of perv.
- [13:06]
Tim Miller
The FBI thing, it is funny. I mean, at some level, and I do like to laugh at the silliness of the Cash Patel, but your point is, right. We had Mike Feinberg on the pod last week. I don't know if you followed that story, but this was a guy that got fired from the FBI for being friends with Pete Strzok, essentially And his job was, was China expertise. And he speaks Mandarin. It was like assessing, you know, kind of domestic threats, like related, related to China. Like the idea that we're running those people out while these guys have like thousands of man hours being worked on looking at the Epstein files and then they're have, they have to cover it up because it ends up Donald Trump's in there. It's pretty alarming. And it is end of Rome type stuff.
- [13:49]
Mike Murphy
Yeah. We're literally conducting an amazing science experiment which is if you replace the, the government of the world's big hyperpower with a gang of chimpanzees from a local circus, how bad could it go? And you know, out of 20 things, maybe the chimps hit a home run by a mistake on something they invent. Nuclear fusion. You know, we haven't had one of those yet, but yes. And so eventually it'll pass. But the price we're going to pay, the job I would never want to have is the next Secretary of State after Trump and just have to sit there in Brussels and eat shit from the Europeans digging out of a hole for four years and with having very little to say. Cause it'll all be true. So, yeah, huge opportunity cost. You know, it's heartbreaking, but I've decided to avoid winding up in a clock tower. I kind of do like Trump free days once in a while where I just block it all out.
- [14:47]
Tim Miller
How's that go?
- [14:47]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, it helps. It helps.
- [14:49]
Tim Miller
You know, what do you do on the Trump fee days? You're going for walks or doing bird watching or.
- [14:54]
Mike Murphy
I have a life, you know, I'm an obsessive weirdo on millions of little things. I'm a history nut. Of course. I love doing the EV car stuff. By the way, Trump, best president the Chinese car industry ever had.
- [15:05]
Tim Miller
We're gonna get to that. Don't worry. Yeah, it's coming.
- [15:08]
Mike Murphy
Okay. Yeah, it's like Murphy's.
- [15:10]
Tim Miller
Oh, it's coming.
- [15:11]
Mike Murphy
Niagara Falls.
- [15:12]
Tim Miller
Slowly I turn, you get the cane out.
- [15:14]
Mike Murphy
But yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I have a life and I just don't want to be the old Timothy Leary line, an extra in his low budget movie. But, you know, and a little Trump goes a long way. Oh, look, I'm off now. It's a back to work day. Let me guess, I'll bet he did something incredibly stupid. Yes, he did. Oh, and his minions are all fighting over who has the shiny hat. Great. You know, so it's just such a diet of gruel. I literally have the countdown clock on my desk. You know, the last day of the. Yeah.
- [15:46]
Tim Miller
How many days are there?
- [15:47]
Mike Murphy
You know, I'm in the little studio now, so I'd have to go look. You know, it's whatever six months and 12 days minus 365 is.
- [15:54]
Tim Miller
That's a lot. It's too many. It's like 1100. It's four numbers. I don't know. I can't do it quickly.
- [15:59]
Mike Murphy
Don't look at the clock too often because it's not. So it'll be more fun to look at after the midterms.
- [16:04]
Tim Miller
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:05]
Mike Murphy
So I am looking forward to the post spam burger meltdown and all that in November of this year.
- [16:10]
Tim Miller
Yeah, well, the Virginia thing's going to be that badly. This is the most optimism we've had on the Bulwark Pot in a while. Kyle Murphy talking about a post Trump era, imagining that we'll have a secretary of state after Trump. That's bullish.
- [16:22]
Mike Murphy
Well, it's like the great Cho Enlai line that he actually didn't say, but it's so funny people repeat it, which is they asked him what he thought about the French Revolution being such a seminal thing in Western history and he said too early to tell. Long term, Big picture.
- [16:36]
Tim Miller
Long term. Yeah, I'm looking at the long term.
- [16:40]
Mike Murphy
When we're all dead.
- [16:43]
Tim Miller
Hey y'. All. If you're a everyday listener, you have heard about the trials and tribulations of the neighborhood kitty Aretha. It's been coming through the house. Sometimes an outside count, sometimes an inside catch. And you better believe that it's bringing in some allergens and other issues that have been causing a little bit of sneezing in the house. And so we've turned to a product by our newest sponsor, Package. It's this podcast is sponsored by Package and owning a cat doesn't have to mean endless itching and sneezing, yet almost 20% of people suffer from cat allergies and 3 in 4 people aren't happy with their current allergy solutions. Packagen's Cat Allergen Neutralizing Spray targets the allergens around your home that trigger your cat allergies and breaks them down so you and your family can live and breathe in peace. Cats groom themselves a lot, but did you know that their saliva is the main source of the allergens that trigger your allergies? So grooming means your clean cat is now covered in allergens to shed around your home. Packagen's Cat Allergen Neutralizing Spray uses their patent pending whisker block protein. Great name to bind and neutralize allergens in your home. No harsh chemicals, no side effects, just spray every few days to keep the allergens at bay. Packagen is trusted by thousands of caring pet owners just like you. That's why they offer their 30 day money back guarantee so you can try their cat allergen neutralizing spray risk free. Your pets aren't just pets, they're family. So get the relief you need with packaging. Head to packaging.com thebullwork and use the promo code thebullwork for 15% off your order plus an exclusive gift for our listeners at checkout. That's P-A-C-A-E-N.com thebullwork for 15% off plus an exclusive gift. Make sure you use my promo code thebullwork one last time. That's packaging.com thebullwork and promo code. The bulwark on the politics of this just I want to do a little bit Hill and then and then politics. You know, the Congress has left. Mike Johnson is just like fuck it. I don't know. Hopefully Trump does something else crazy in August and by the time we come back people will be talking about something else I think is the bet he's trying to make. But they come back into this shutdown fight and we revisit talking about I support you're taking days off by the way and I tell the listeners I'm not going to, I'm not mad you want to, you want to take off a Thursday pod, don't skip the Murphy pod. But you want to take off a pot, it's fine with me. It's okay. Everybody needs to serve themselves first. But these guys come back and we have the same thing that happened in, in whatever the winter. Right. Which is they, they need Democrats to keep the government open and Democrats, Democrats are going to be able to get a message together that and get unity to where they're going to have the big fight. Last time didn't happen. Chuck Schumer folded but now Mike Johnson comes back to Epstein crisis and shutdown crisis. Where are you at on how the Dems treat all that?
- [19:32]
Mike Murphy
Well one last time I said I know it's terrible to shut down the government. I'm against shut down the government. They might think we have a government of clowns and secret might get out. I'm for the point. If I were the Dems I'd shut it down because I think all disorder and chaos bubbles to the top and that's Trump and His gang of accomplices. So I think the Dems, you know this thing last night, about a thousand people, mostly D. And all the questions were, you know, how is he going to have the army dress up as postman and steal the election? How is he going to use mind control from Steve Bannon and I just don't go in front. Would you guys quit clutching your pearls, sharpen some sticks and fight. In the Republican Party, we are trained, no matter what happens, grab the sharpest thing you can grab and attack. You know, think later. Attack now. Now may not be the virtuous way to live a thoughtful life of civic engagement, but it's pretty handy in a campaign. So I think it's time for them to get rougher. And so I would be very tempted by the republics there in charge. Line everybody, you know, and link it to some things. I think you're fighting a caveman of Trump. So you have to kind of get out the stick and not win the approval of the New York Times editorial board for your thoughtful approach to dealing with the. We sent a stiff letter to Trump protesting it as brutish tactics. They have an easy midterm if they can just bolt down to middle class economics, get out of identity, get out of the halo stuff about democracy. Just pound on he's strewing your life if you work for a living. And they can win the House now, the budget will be a log jam, which is better than the rubber stamp that Congress has given up all its institutional power under the irs and they have, as you said, investigatory power so they can make headlines. Pretty good deal.
- [21:18]
Tim Miller
Is the Epstein stuff tied to the midterms at all for you? Can they tie it to. Can they talk about it as a. I think so. But protecting the rich or is that a stretch?
- [21:25]
Mike Murphy
A little bit. But they're piling onto the big thing. Remember, Trump now is only a couple of points away from Joe Biden numbers on the economy that killed Biden. Biden's troubles killed Kamala. Now Trump, who was elected not cause they loved him, but because we gotta fire the old guy and his sidekick lady. And Trump may be an asshole, but he can run the economy. That was his best number in the election. That's gone now. So Trump will try to start culture war fights to like, hey look over here, forget about it. But if they keep grinding him on the economy, he'll get Bidenized in the midterms. And you know, that's good.
- [22:00]
Tim Miller
It feels like he's losing his fastball on the look over Here. And what do you make of that? The Obama going to jail. Are you quaking in your boots? If you're Michelle right now, are you a little nervous?
- [22:08]
Mike Murphy
I think Michelle's like, give me three minutes in a room with that guy. You know, then Vance would be taking the oath office. No, that's a Trump smoke bomb, as you say. It's like, hey, guess what? Obama's got big ears. Ha. You know, and now all of a sudden change the subject. That's what he does. Cause he's basically. Trump wakes up every day thinking, what should the New York Post headline be? What can I do to, you know, create a thing in this 24 hour media cycle? Problem is that's a pretty good short term tactical thing. But you know, as the quicksand moves around you, if the economic stuff keeps turning the wrong way, then you can't day to day splash your way out of it.
- [22:47]
Tim Miller
Yeah. The Obama going to jail thing and Tulsi press conference, I don't think that one's really. Landon, here's who I would. And I don't really care about this, but you know who should be maybe a little worried right now is Bill Clinton.
- [22:58]
Mike Murphy
Yeah.
- [22:58]
Tim Miller
And Prince Andrew. Because if I'm them, like, you got to lean into the Epstein wave a little bit and you know, you start going through these files and okay, well, if we can't move on from it, which is what they wanted, let's talk about something else and let's start leaking whatever pictures we have of Bill, Bill Clinton with young girls on the island or whatever.
- [23:17]
Mike Murphy
I agree. Big smoke bomb. If I'm Clinton, I do the final sacrifice, which is there's a file and I'm in it. And I remember Trump was wearing the snake hat at the party where we cut the girl in half. You know, grab the dynamite vest and take him out. Bill, one last service.
- [23:32]
Tim Miller
That's a tough one though, because that might mean that some of Cash's guys are going to Chappaqua.
- [23:40]
Mike Murphy
No, no, look, if we all took evil pills, I mean, I don't care.
- [23:44]
Tim Miller
If he did something wrong, like whatever, fuck him. But, but I think, yeah, yeah, that is legit.
- [23:48]
Mike Murphy
But that look, if we were in the evil business for Trump, we totally do that. It's like, let's, let's make this about Clinton. The Dems will back off like they did the last time. Clinton perved out. And you know, now, now it's 5050. It's now both sides ism. And so Clinton, do your thing.
- [24:03]
Tim Miller
I, I don't think The Dems will fold on that one. I think the Dems are pretty ready to kick the Clintons, kick the kittens off the curb. And I think you'd see a lot of Democrats.
- [24:11]
Mike Murphy
That's what the Trump guys will think. But I agree, you not Now, a.
- [24:14]
Tim Miller
Lot of Dems will be like, all right, so if you're Bill, put the bracelets on it.
- [24:17]
Mike Murphy
Don't be dragged behind it, you know?
- [24:19]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Talk about banana Republic. And we got, you know, three presidents ago going to jail for child whatever for sex stuff. That would be. That would be something.
- [24:29]
Unknown Nephew
I'mma put you on, nephew.
- [24:31]
Mike Murphy
All right. Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?
- [24:34]
Unknown Nephew
I've been hitting up McDonald's for years now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? Is the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.
- [24:46]
Tim Miller
All right. I want to do some California politics and big picture politics first. Just one other thing in the news, though. You mentioned the economic stuff. By the time this is out, Donald Trump will have been at the Fed today. I guess he's going over to the Fed. He's reviewing the renovations. He's using his expertise as a real estate gold guilt. Yeah, he's actually old enough. He's like, oh, we did a Renault like this on Trump Doha, and it cost half as much. And that's why we gotta get rid of Jerome Paul.
- [25:14]
Mike Murphy
What's with all the smoke detectors? They're expensive.
- [25:17]
Tim Miller
Yeah, but I don't know, what's your state of concern about the Fed stuff?
- [25:22]
Mike Murphy
Well, Trump, of course, thinking of the one sun in his universe that illuminates all things, him will be like, I need to blame somebody for this shit economy. And I've been blaming Biden and Kamala Harris, but getting a little long in the truth. I need a new villain who's keeping me from all the great stuff that I've done. Being infallible and a godlike figure. Enter Jay Powell. We got this lunatic at the Fed. He's ruining everything. I gotta get rid of him. So Trump up something that, you know, all the stuff you've read about what they think they could do to drive Powell, which would be hard, by the way. It would also shake the markets in a bad, bad way, which is the last thing Trump needs. But, yeah, thinking, trying to think is Trump, which is impossible. You know, you lose it. Powell is his economic foil. He needs to attack him. He might want the fight more than the victory, but, yeah. So I think, at least optically, he's gonna be all Over Powell and it's now Powell's fault, not his. Any economic trouble?
- [26:21]
Tim Miller
Is the economy that bad?
- [26:23]
Mike Murphy
Well, it is.
- [26:24]
Tim Miller
Can I ask that question? Inflation was going like surprisingly stable.
- [26:29]
Mike Murphy
It stopped. The stock market has shown to be very resilient. Serious people who follow the economy are worried because one of the debt bomb. It's always like, well one day we're gonna hit the limit and everything go to shit. But today looks okay. Well, you know, that's a great way to kind of be in a zombie like haze till it happens.
- [26:47]
Tim Miller
And well, and we're actually seeing real consequences on the debt stuff which really weren't like, look, you and me were always debt hawks but when we were talking about it back in 2008 or whatever when Obama's first stimulus was concerned, it didn't really have any real life impact on anybody in any meaningful way that they felt. That's like not true now. Like the debt issue is affecting people's interest rates, which is affecting people's ability to change houses and ties into the housing crisis and a bunch of other stuff.
- [27:14]
Mike Murphy
Right. And that's a voter thing. The other thing, it's kind of a Jenga game and it's a very high tower. Now you look at the deficit compared to gdp, the ratio and we're up. What's the most expensive thing the US government has had to deal with for 100 years? World War II wasn't cheap and we gave away supplies. Basically supported 3/4 of the Russian army. Very big and of course our army and Brits and Canadians too. So we're spending World War II money now. And you know, there's a point where it gets very bad now. Could be next Thursday, could be in five more years. But most economists think we're, we're on a long leash here of trouble and it's going to happen. So there's that. There's the inflationary pressure because inflation went down now it's been creeping back up in, you know, I advise a couple auto companies and all my EV stuff, the tariffs, even though Trump does the. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. I'm only going to cut off a finger now we have a deal. It's still trouble. If you look at the, this quarter between Stellantis, which is the global conglomerate that in the U.S. has, you know, the Chrysler brands and Jeep, Ford and gm, multi billion dollar losses. There are auto suppliers going out of business in Michigan starting the chapter.
- [28:32]
Tim Miller
GM's profits were down. I saw some article about this GM's profits were down last quarter.
- [28:36]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, over a billion Stellantis, 2 billion Ford, about $650 million. They won't even do a forecast anymore. They're like, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the monkey's going to do with this with the machine gun. So I'm not going to try to predict it. So real trouble there. A lot of the price hits from the tariffs have not hit yet because there's about 100 days of inventory that's been burned off. But stay tuned for that Labor Day sale when you walk in to buy a pickup and it's $7,000 more than it was three months ago. So I think all this stuff is slowly compounding. The US economy has shown a lot of resiliency because it's a powerful engine. But like the strongest pack mule going up the hill, we keep putting anvils on it. And the blood's starting to seep out from under the saddle now. So Q1, end of year, not so great. And of course, you know, for all Trump's love of new manufacturing jobs, most of them are EV factories that he's tried everything he can to destroy.
- [29:30]
Tim Miller
This ties to the big bill that they passed and I saw you were very critical of that because it ties to the debt stuff, but also just totally slashing any effort to support domestic industry on EVs and related other green issues. So I kind of almost want to put a quarter in the machine and here you do your riff on the bill.
- [29:54]
Mike Murphy
It's now 35 cents with inflation.
- [29:58]
Tim Miller
I got a dime now. Yeah, we'll dump that into.
- [30:01]
Mike Murphy
In fact, just quick showbiz thing. I have a friend of mine was doing a sitcom pilot and I was over there, help punch up jokes. And the great Brian Dennehy played the grumpy dad, who was a bit of a winger, by the way, in a good way. And he recognized me from cable. So we went out and dinner. Anyway, Dennehy had the best Hollywood stories, but he ad libbed a great line. The little cute kid runs up to him, grandpa, can I have some money for candy? And the line in the script was, no, you gotta learn the value of a dollar. And. And so then he does the line and then he lives. But I'll tell you what, you want to learn the value of a dollar, here's a quarter off top of his head. Got a laugh. So here I'll do the shortest possible version of the EV thing. World markets going to EVs growing like a weed. We're either going to be in it, or we're going to be a little island with inefficient car companies that are a lot smaller than they are now. I have a few shockers. Shocker number one. How many cars and light trucks do you think China has the ability to manufacture a year?
- [30:58]
Tim Miller
Like a gazillion 50 million?
- [31:02]
Mike Murphy
They made 31 million. We made 10 million. Okay? They are eating the entire world auto industry now. They're not making any money, which makes it hard for our guys to compete with them. But for every American autoworker, there are five Chinese auto workers. And we're heading to a point where half of our autoworkers could easily be gone if we can't compete worldwide. And the companies are trying. There's some good tech. Trump put a dagger in all that stuff. It's literally the best thing to happen to the Chinese auto industry, which is important for production. Because I'll give you one more number, because I find my crusty Republican pals love military analogies. In the year before the Second World War started in 1938, the Brits made 500,000 cars and light trucks. The French made, I think, about 380,000. The Germans about 440,000. Year before Pearl harbor, we made 4.7 million vehicles, which is why when we went to war, almost everything had made in the USA stamped on it that moved, shot, or was a locomotive. Right now we're the, you know, the Brits and the Germans in that scenario. And the Chinese are becoming the Americans in pure manufactured power. And the great thing about car plants is they build complicated machines at a high rate of production. What's a complicated machine? A big drone, you know, so it's nice to have factories that can make 1000 large super killer drones of the future a day. So a US Manufacturing base is really important. And as the president of Ford, who's very frank Jim Farley, said, I think three or four weeks ago at the Aspen, if we don't get EVs right, we don't have a future at the Ford Motor Company. We may not be here in a decade. Get that? And they're the largest industrial employer. The 80% of Ford vehicles are made in the US they're number two only to Tesla in terms of number of vehicles, in terms of percentage of their stuff they make here. Honda is like third or fourth. And gm, which moved a lot of its stuff to Mexico, is kind of scrambling. So Trump does not understand any of this. So everything he's doing is trying to kill these guys. And what a car exec. I'll finish with this. What a car exec would say is, look, we're competing against 100 Chinese brands that are bigger than we are and only two of them make money. Government subsidizes everything and gives them a mission. Go overseas, steal the market, strangle the Americans, Japanese and Germans. And it's working. Now, Ford has bet the whole company on a lab out here in California. I've got an op ed in the LA Times earlier this week about it if anybody's interested or go to that website and it's posted. The best EV tech labs are here. So I think our state ought to leave the thing. We're in the fight. The battery that propelled the Chinese EV industry to such power was invented at the University of Texas. So we're in the hunt and we're good at the tech and we're pretty good at manufacturing, but we're up against a massive opponent with massive government support. Well, the Trump guys are trying to strangle this because, you know, they don't understand that for most people an EV is a better car. And 80% of the people who buy them say they're sticking with them for life. It's better experience. So I'm not giving up yet. But boy, Trump is not on the side of everything he says. He is American industrial power, national security and, you know, manufacturing jobs. He is the anthrax of all that.
- [34:17]
Tim Miller
I was walking down the street in Amsterdam a couple weeks ago and, you know, there's this huge car, like, you know, showroom right in the middle of the tourist area. And I was like, what is that? Those things look cool. It's like, oh, it's the Chinese.
- [34:30]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, yeah, go to Mexico City. It's like, when did I, you know, turn into Shanghai overnight?
- [34:36]
Tim Miller
What specifically is in the bill that is so harmful?
- [34:40]
Mike Murphy
Well, the solar guys will say everything I'm saying about cars. We finally started catching up manufacturing now. It's all there.
- [34:47]
Tim Miller
We talked about that a little bit with David Wallace Wells.
- [34:49]
Mike Murphy
So the bill had a push pull strategy and there was some stupidity in it. Waste and can be improved. It was not perfect, but fundamentally on the consumer side. And this is still true until the end of September. You walk into your friendly Cadillac, Kia, BMW, you know, Ford dealer, and you lease an EV. Always better lease than EV. You get $7,500 and that helps make EVs cost as much. Or right now look at the lease deals. Probably less than an ICE car, gas car. So that was the consumer subsidy. There was also subsidies if you buy one though, it's always better to lease in an ev and depreciation, stuff like that, and you buy a used one. Keep in mind the used car market is twice as big as the new car market. It's important. A lot of EVs coming off lease, a lot of good deals there. So there were subsidies for consum to give EVs a try. On the other hand, if you want to build a big plant to make batteries here so the Chinese don't have a chokehold and support catching up on the tech. There was government money for assembly plants and battery plants, you know, subsidies and loan to speed up our places to be able to compete just like the Chinese are doing. You and I five years ago could have showed up at Beijing with a couple of Chinese partners, said can we have 3 billion to build an EV plant? Sure, here you go, enjoy it. So they killed the consumer subsidies, they kept some of the battery subsidies. But the problem is let's build an $8 billion battery plant to build incredible American competitive high tech batteries that are going in cars nobody's going to buy for a couple of years. The subsidies were meant to bridge that price problem. And the prices aren't coming down quickly. They run about two to three grand more. And so the subsidies and what I'm pitching in California is a $3,500 lease subsidy. So a lot of the subsidies to buy were gone. The charging money they're trying to claw back and the charging program has been kind of a mess and private industry is taking over. I think that's the least of the problem. But there was some claw back there. And in the other quote, renewable category, nukes, solar, geothermal, there was money for all that and that's all getting chopped. So there are people who invested money on 10 year business plans based on these subsidies are now like, well shit, all the math is wrong and we're gonna get massively burned here. So they're stopping construction on plants all over the country, you know, quarter million jobs.
- [37:09]
Tim Miller
Just what the forgotten man was calling for, stopping the construction.
- [37:13]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, just go down to Tennessee, you know, I mean they're all, most of them are in red states. And like, well, it was too bad we're not gonna have those 4,000 jobs here. Too bad about that. You can all get jobs trading maga, crypto now. Yeah.
- [37:27]
Tim Miller
Let'S do a little California politics. Your home state, which is why you've gone so woke, you know, it just seeps into you in the air.
- [37:33]
Mike Murphy
I'm a right wing nut. The Truth is, I'm still a right wing nut. This guy's a populist yahoo, not a conservative. But I'm not a Republican. Now I finally left.
- [37:43]
Tim Miller
I'm gonna ask you about that. Oh, okay, all right, sorry, we're ending on that. You wrote a very interesting newsletter which we'll be talking about at the end about your status, your registration status, but just the California stuff real quick. Do you put analyst hat on?
- [37:57]
Mike Murphy
Yeah.
- [37:57]
Tim Miller
Lurie, the mayor of San Francisco, I'm trying to get on here. Poll came out the other day, has him at 73% approval in San Francisco.
- [38:05]
Mike Murphy
Yeah.
- [38:05]
Tim Miller
Why is he so popular? What's happening?
- [38:07]
Mike Murphy
Well, Lurie ran up the middle as a. Why don't we have results instead of dogma and you know, the fight about whether or not the chopsticks in Chinatown are lied to, proper principles of, you know, DEI and all the San Francisco crazy stuff he said. Wouldn't it be great if we picked up the garbage on time and the cops actually answered the phone, you know, and it worked and he went right up the middle and so they've got a change mayor there, which they're. And change mayors are selling everywhere. If there was an election in Chicago, they get one. We just saw what happened with Comrade Mondami in New York and he's going to win. So.
- [38:40]
Tim Miller
And you know, LA is bubble different models for change.
- [38:43]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, very different. But still like enough of this crap is kind of the universal thing and in the cities it's kind of worse than anywhere. So Lori is like the hero of those with hope for a rational San Francisco resident ordered government. Now it's a big thing to lift. He's making all the right moves, but it's not. It's a hard supertanker to turn on a dime. But I'm hoping for him and you know, we'll see. Disclosure. I've got a long term friend and on and off client named Rick Caruso who ran for mayor last time in la. I didn't do that race but I'm helping Rick right now and he's looking at governor or mayor of LA as a tory Democrat, which is something we haven't seen in California or in the Democratic Party for a while other than Cooper maybe down in North Carolina, which is another good news for the Dems that he's going to run the Senate race. But you know we will. The Lurie mania has started.
- [39:39]
Tim Miller
You think there's appetite for that. And Caruso is a little righter than Lurie though. Right. And is that, is that fair? He's a little more, yeah, the former.
- [39:45]
Mike Murphy
Republican, but it's the same thing. It's like, you know, make it work again. Rick Caruso is very involved in the Palisades fire rebuild, where, you know, we're trying to apply common sense, which is in rare supply in California city and state government.
- [39:59]
Tim Miller
Are we rebuilding anything yet in California or are we still just talking about what the rules are on the construction and whether we're using the right wood?
- [40:07]
Mike Murphy
There's probably about rules, but things are starting to happen, but it's much slower than it should be. We still don't have a fire chief. Mayor's still thinking about thinking about it. We had a czar who was, I think, incompetent and left quickly. And they haven't been able to figure out how to replace the rebuild czar. So the private sector, in many ways, led by Rick, is stepping up, you know, to kind of cut through red tape and try to help things get going. So Rick is seen as a can do, successful guy, huge philanthropist, started the largest and most successful charter school in Los Angeles. And, you know, he's under. I go to the meetings. It's an amazing galaxy of people urging him to run for both offices. So he's got. But he's got some thinking and exploring to do. But it's a very Lurie like thing because people are fed up here with dogma, not results.
- [40:53]
Tim Miller
The current governor, my advice always, whenever Gavin came up about whether he should run for president or not, what to do, what the strategy is, he would probably just benefit most from governing well and doing things to fix California would probably be his best bet. But maybe I'm wrong about that. I don't know. I feel like just grading as a figure skating judge, his, like, performance.
- [41:13]
Mike Murphy
And you're not East German, so you're going to give it to me straight.
- [41:16]
Tim Miller
His performance has been pretty good lately. I mean, just he's been very aggressive. And going after Trump, this kind of move on the redistricting feels right to me. I don't. It might not hold up in courts, but at least positioning wise, it feels like it's the right thing to do to try to put some pressure on Texas. His social media upgrade is notable. I don't know. What do you make of what's happening with your current governor?
- [41:38]
Mike Murphy
Well, a funny story, a couple weeks ago he reached out to me and said, hey, come talk to me about EVs. And, you know, I don't really know the guy. And I thought, sucker. So, you know, I went up there and he pulled me in the office and you know, the poor bastard, I had him cornered. Like I brought, I brought a little slideshow, Governor, here are some charts and graphs that show our nozzle penetration rate is fourth worst. And again, another, and to his credit, his ability to suffer fools, which is essential for running for president, in this case, me. And another thing, if you look at the tire diameters, I had him in there for 90 minutes. Finally, the troopers had to rescue him. They brought in the SWAT team to get him out of there. But one, he's an EV guy, he's an early adopter. Two, he gets it. And three, it was a very productive discussion. Half me was thinking, if you run for president, you can't let a blowhard like me in there for 90 minutes. You got a state to run. And we were in the middle of the budget fight. But he was very gracious. But of course the talk turned to that and my advice to him was less of the PR gimmicks. If you're the gimmicky flim flam guy from California with the perfect teeth, you know, you're not going to have a winning narrative in presidential. He is no fool. And I think he is lining up right against Trump. He is a bit of a policy walk, which is why he tolerated the, you know, I had a lot of opinions about existing California programs that are working and not working. And I said this is a side of you that people don't jump to because they see the good looking, you know, communicator candidate. Why not? And so I, you know, he was impressive in the meeting, but I think he has a tendency, or his campaign does, to go for the easy. And we're going to go put up a billboard in Alabama and call, you know, when in fact is I think if you're the California guy, you can be the future guy, the generational guy. On the other hand, being him, people think California's all screwed up, so he's got to have a story about how I learned from our failures and admit that it's not the Golden State now or he'll get tied up in that. So anyway, he was fairly impressive in the meeting about all this stuff. But I think the sharp, smart policy owner in a guy has been hidden and the kind of gimmicky soundbite guy has been probably running at 150% when 100% would do it. And you could fill the void with the other stuff. But I think he's a contender. I think he's a short list guy for The Democrats.
- [44:00]
Tim Miller
I do too. I've updated my priors on it over the last six months. Last year I would have been like, come on. It's just, you can't, the Democrats can't pick a governor of California. But I don't know, I've been frankly. And I just think that a couple of the other Democratic governors are making the wrong call right now. And I would rather Josh Shapiro be the governor of my state than Gavin Newsom. Like, that's closer to my politics. I think he's a great governor of Pennsylvan, but the Shapiro, Whitmer kind of, et cetera. I could list basically every other governor I play of like, well, I'm going to pick my, I'm going to pull my punches, I'm going to pick my fights with Trump, I'm going to pick my spots. I just don't think this is the right moment for that. If you have national ambitions, maybe it's right for your state concerns in the, in the micro, but I don't. I think that people want somebody that's fighting, you know, with a little bit more verve.
- [44:50]
Mike Murphy
Yeah.
- [44:50]
Tim Miller
I don't know. What do you make of that?
- [44:51]
Mike Murphy
I think somebody who does change the channel elegantly. But here's the exciting new stuff. You get enough with this guy. We all get to say, bye bye, Donald Trump, everybody. Join me. Bye bye, you're gone old man crazy. And then pivot to the new. Interesting stuff. I'm a believer of the opposites theory of the presidential campaign psychology in that people like to vote for what they think perceive they did not get the last time. So George H.W. bush, classiest guy in the world, master of foreign affairs, cannot work a supermarket checkout scanner, doesn't understand us. So we go to the trailer park and we find Bill Clinton, who understands us all too well. In fact, he understood us so well it got a little creepy and he, you know, enough already. It's the Oval friggin office. So what do we do? We went back to the classy Bush family and got the likable son you want to watch a football game with. Loved him.
- [45:45]
Tim Miller
Then went to church. Yeah.
- [45:47]
Mike Murphy
Got clean, straight and narrow. Enough of the Playboy Mansion, then in the White House. And then we find out, boy, he doesn't make English talk so good and he might have stupidly gotten us in a war. Maybe he's not that smart. We need a genius. So we found the erudite African American poet who wrote the stirring memoir of his own story and gave the best speech in the world. And we thought let's get the genius. So we get the genius to replace the guy. Again, perception, not reality. That, you know, we thought was stupid. So now what happens with the genius? Well, he's a little soft. He keeps drawing red lines. People cross. The Brazilian minister of sport rolled him at the Olympics. You know, eh, we need a tough negotiator to shake up this failure in Washington. Get the blowhard from TV who fired Gary Busey for not selling enough snow coats or whatever. All right, he's gonna. And you know, I remember the data back in the late great campaign. We both remember a lot of the reason regulars, not just nutty populists started going to Trump in the primary was they thought, well he'll make deals and get stuff done. They thought he'd be Mr. Washington results because he's a master deal maker. He's actually a master inheritance squanderer. But the perception was because he was in that cardboard set in the Apprentice. Wow, he's a big wheeler dealer. He'll make it all work. Well, of course then we got complete chaos.
- [47:04]
Tim Miller
You got to give him a little more credit, Murph. Turns out he's a master scam artist because he is going to end up doing pretty good on his inheritance. Now with the crypto money, best grifter.
- [47:13]
Mike Murphy
To ever made off is looking up from hell, thinking I should have studied him more. So now what? Replaces the blowhard incompetent guy who picks fights of everybody. The cool, smart I am the future younger technocrat type. I don't think it'll be J.B. pritzker. There's another brawler like Trump. He'll be in the entertainment. I don't think he'll be the president. So the question is, who is the anti Trump to give us what we think we didn't get with him, which I would think would be finesse, a little bit of elegance, eye on the future. Grown up can handle the French minister without throwing a Big Mac at him, you know, and Gavin, if he manages this right, could fall into the slot and a few others could as well. Now remember, the problem is Dems have to pick their calendar because Biden tried to say, well, let's, you know, move a lot of African American voters up and you know, so you gotta watch the English on the ball, which can affect the market of what people really want versus what they might get, which could be a big factor.
- [48:20]
Tim Miller
We got three years to do 2028 hot stove. So I won't go too deep on this. You know, you could do two hours of it. I'll just say one. I guess my one thing I would add to what you're saying, I think you're right in the macro. But the thing I remember from 2016, looking at the data and Jeb, is that what the people is that phrase about Trump. Well, I don't like this, but he fights.
- [48:41]
Mike Murphy
And I do think that was his other thing.
- [48:43]
Tim Miller
I do think the Democratic primary voters, maybe not the swing general voters, the Democratic primary voters are going to want somebody that fights. So fights and finesse is tough. It's doable.
- [48:53]
Mike Murphy
Well, but you can always do an improved version of Adlai Stevenson. Well, if my opponent keeps lying about me, I might start telling the truth about him with a little Alan rather than the brutal insulting. Because keep in mind, you'll have a whole field full of insulters. JD Pritzker will be hey, pencil neck, you know, he'll be doing pro wrestling promos on Trump all the time, standing out as the clever scalpel thing. You might be able to surf on the goons a little. Anyway, we'll find out. It kind of depends what the whole field looks like.
- [49:24]
Tim Miller
Last topic In November of 2020, during the Stop the Steal, a young man, somebody who had less wrinkles than he does right now on this podcast, wrote a article that said goodbye to all that, about how I could not go along a party that was going to go along with his Stop the Steel effort. You, Mike Murphy, four years later, four and a half years, May 2025, Memorial Day, wrote an article with the subhead goodbye to all that, saying that you were also, you were officially leaving. So only four and a half years behind me. Not too bad. What was the final straw?
- [49:59]
Mike Murphy
Well, I was fighting from the inside. You know, I'm a lifer. I've been a general in this thing for a long time. And I'm happy to be up in the hills, you know, starving on coconuts with my rifle, ready for the comeback and taking the OD shot. But I just was so depressed the way the House and many of most of the Senate just folded their chair on everything. I thought, you know what, I just don't want to be registered to this anymore. I've been voting for a fair amount of Democrats, not particularly enjoying it. I'm still pretty right wing, you know, conservative. But I don't think the Republican Party is a conservative party anymore. It's stupid populist party. And if I wanted that, I, you know, have a Juan Perrone for president stick around my car. So I just did what we heard in California called declined to state, which is independent or no party preference. So, yeah, yeah, I have not joined the Democratic Party, but I have left the Republican one.
- [50:52]
Tim Miller
Do you think declined to state is how you will be registered when you reach our eternal coil, or do you expect there'll be a pivot back to you?
- [51:03]
Mike Murphy
I don't know. Tom Campbell, former congressman, former budget director in the Schwarzen administration, is an old friend of mine. He's a little to the left of me on many things, but he founded something called the Common Sense Party here, I think, which I tried to register, but it doesn't have official status. So I just said I'll be declined to state. I would like to be a Republican again.
- [51:24]
Tim Miller
But do you see it? I'm not asking about your feelings. I'm asking of your analysis.
- [51:28]
Mike Murphy
Yeah, I hear you. I think it's possible it's gonna evolve. Parties are not permanent. The question is the battle is gonna be between conservatism in a classic sense and populism. Knuckle dragging or not. And I'm not a knuckle dragger.
- [51:41]
Tim Miller
Tell me what you think about this. This is how I answer this question. Anytime somebody. I'm interested in your assessment of my analysis. I think that if you look at the world basically besides the Anglo world, besides us, England, the Aussies and Canada.
- [51:57]
Mike Murphy
There'S some angry New Zealandites calling us too.
- [51:59]
Tim Miller
We're not Australia, damn it, the Kiwis. The right wing party in all these countries is basically a nativist blood and soil party. That's just what the right wing party is in every country in the world. And I just think that that's. That's what the right wing party in this country is going to be for the foreseeable future. I don't know.
- [52:18]
Mike Murphy
Well, it's quickly, but you can argue it's already there. So things change over the future, but I can't guarantee they're changing the right way. As long as I'm in the fight, I want to push for the right change. We need a real Burkean Conservative party in this country. But right now, the populist yahoos, they're in the ascendancy. But we have a cult too, and cults go away with the cult leaders. So we'll see.
- [52:45]
Tim Miller
I don't know. This guy's never gonna die, Mike. I mean, come on. Like, he's just. He's gonna. He's like that old lady. You seen the interviews. And it's like I'm 110, you know, and the Today show. Goes down. They're like, what's your secret? And she's like, pack of cigarettes. No, no.
- [53:00]
Mike Murphy
Totally.
- [53:00]
Tim Miller
I feel like.
- [53:01]
Mike Murphy
All I know is they thought Rasputin couldn't be killed until he was. So everybody dies. But I take your point. And I'm not advocating any harm or violence against the President, United States.
- [53:11]
Tim Miller
Just metaphor, obviously. Obviously we would not. That is Mike Murphy, a very busy man because he's taking at least one day a week to not think about Donald Trump. I tried to book him when he wrote that damn newsletter about leaving the Republican Party on Memorial Day. I was like, I need Murphy. We're coming out of Memorial Day.
- [53:25]
Mike Murphy
But he's like, I can't remember where I was. But it bummed me out. I wanted to chirp about it.
- [53:28]
Tim Miller
Yeah, you're like, I'll get to you in July. I can fit you in on my schedule in 12 weeks from now. It's like getting a hearing with the Pope. Mike Murphy. So we'll see you back here around Thanksgiving, I guess. How's that?
- [53:37]
Mike Murphy
All right. We're going to drag you on. Hacks on tap. You're on our must get guest list.
- [53:41]
Tim Miller
Can't wait.
- [53:42]
Mike Murphy
Alcoholic staff.
- [53:44]
Tim Miller
All right, all right. Thanks so much to Mike Murphy for coming on the podcast. Tomorrow we're gonna get a little bit more serious. We'll do a deep dive with our favorite legal expert on what's happening inside the doj. And apparently the negotiations going on today between Ghislaine Maxwell and Trump's personal lawyer turned Deputy Attorney general, it is going to be a good one. We'll see you all then. Look forward to it. Peace.
- [54:08]
Unknown Singer
It's not easy having yourself a good.
- [54:13]
Tim Miller
Time.
- [54:15]
Unknown Singer
Greasing up those pets and banners Watching out they don't won't let em fucking kiss you Both at the same time Smells like something I've forgotten Curled up tight and now it's blind I'm not a gangster tonight Don't I don't wanna be a bad guy I'm just a loner, baby and now you've gotten in my way I can't decide whether you should live or die oh, you'll probably go to heaven Please don't hang your head and cry no wonder why my heart feels dead inside it's cold and hard and petrified Lock the doors and close flies I'm going for ride oh I could throw you you in the lake I feed you poison birthday cake I won't deny I'm going to miss you when you're gone oh I could bury you alive but you might crawl out with a knife and kill me when I'm sleeping that's why I can't decide whether you should live or die oh, you'll probably go to heaven Please don't hang your bed and cry no wonder why my heart feels dead Inside it's cold.
- [55:42]
Tim Miller
The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.