The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Mikie Sherrill and Michael Fanone: Full-Time Criming and Corruption
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: Mikie Sherrill (Governor-elect of New Jersey), Michael Fanone (former police officer, commentator)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller hosts a double interview with newly elected New Jersey governor Mikie Sherrill and former Metropolitan Police officer Michael Fanone. The episode dives into Sherrill’s landslide win, her approach to affordability and economic messaging, Democratic strategy in the Trump era, law enforcement realities under the Trump administration, and the right-wing disinformation ecosystem. The tone is candid, irreverent, and frequently biting, especially in discussions about MAGA conspiracies, government dysfunction, and the politicization of federal law enforcement.

Mikie Sherrill: Election Win, Strategy, and Governing in Trump’s America

"Governor-elect"—First Impressions and Personal Impact

• [01:17] Tim kicks off with light banter about Sherrill’s new title.
  • Sherrill admits she hasn't gotten used to it and kids around about her daughter’s teasing:
    • “One of my daughters keeps going ‘hello Governor,’ which is a really annoying joke after a while.” (01:25)

Disconnect Between Punditry and Landslide Outcome

• [01:36] Tim asks Sherrill to explain the 14-point victory and why it surprised so many.
  • Mikie Sherrill explains voters’ top concerns:
    • “It's really hard when you can't pay for your prescription drugs, groceries, or you're looking at being kicked out of your house. That is the central existential crisis for many people here... To many of us, we're seeing all this. But when you're talking to an entire statewide electorate and they are facing a crisis in their family... you're suddenly not, not connecting.” (02:28)
  • Notes that traditional Democratic messaging about threats to democracy doesn’t always land when people are in personal economic crisis.

Grassroots Energy and Campaign Tactics

• [05:12] Sherrill describes feeling “great stuff” on the ground and the unprecedented engagement of young voters.
  • “We had a huge number of young people get engaged to the point where... we’re having like 500,000 person rallies and we’re having about five of them a day.” (06:13)
  • She recounts the story of skeptical teenage boys at a rally who turned out to be enthusiastic campaign volunteers.

Old School Organizing and Voter Turnout

• [07:08] On massive urban turnout:
  • “Newark hasn't turned out numbers like this since 2005 for a governor’s race. We saw Hudson swing 22 points. We saw Psych swing 18 points... It was just this juggernaut of a campaign.” (08:03)

Economic Message vs. "Corporate Democrat" Frame

• [08:48] Tim asks about her campaign’s approach to corporate power and capitalism.
  • Sherrill clarifies:
    • “I'm always leery of anything in the Democratic Party where people don't seem to want jobs or people don't care about jobs... The idea of going after concentrated power is something that really resonated with me because that seems to be the fight. Here is the president trying to concentrate a lot of power in the hands of a very few...” (09:21)
  • She emphasizes opportunity, unions, and access to good jobs as central to her economic message.

Policy Priorities for Affordability

• [12:00] On immediate priorities:
  • “Really expanding access to that first time homebuyers program... Housing costs are so high. Helping people get in to that first home and start to develop [wealth].” (12:00)
  • Describes supporting small businesses and increasing market competition to combat food inflation.

Positioning on Capitalism

• [14:14] Distinguishes herself from Democratic Socialists:
  • “I’m not a democratic socialist. I really do think capitalism as long as people have access to opportunity... It was really compelling. Affordability was compelling to everyone.” (14:14)

Dealing With the Trump Administration

• [18:02] Discusses her approach to confronting or cooperating with President Trump:
  • “The willingness to be tough and to take on fights when it comes for fighting for people... That was the emergency state of emergent utility costs... They want somebody who's gonna stand up and say, all right, it's illegal for you to cancel the Gateway Tunnel funding.” (18:02, 19:12)
  • She stresses picking strategic fights over substantive issues (e.g., infrastructure, healthcare funding).

Federal-State Relations and Upcoming Fights

• [21:07] On federal funding shortfalls:
  • “New Jersey sends $70 billion more to the federal government than we get back. And now the federal government's failing at things like SNAP funding, failing at things like, you know, Affordable Care Act.” (20:30)

Trump’s Tone-Deafness on the Economy

• [22:32] Responds to Trump claiming “we have the greatest economy we've ever had.”
  • “I spoke to thousands of people sometimes a day and they know what's going on. And that's what the president's going to have a really hard time managing... when I go to colleges and universities, they see the job market. They are sort of in a panicky state.” (22:37 - 24:09)

Campaign Advice to Other Democrats

• [25:23] On organizing, connecting, and message discipline:
  • “Speak to as many people on the ground from the communities you want to represent as possible... because, you know, we had a couple ideas on what we thought could be really helpful and people just were kind of like, no, that doesn't really float my boat. So really finding those key issues that are keeping people out of...” (25:23)
  • Warns not to rely on grassroots leaders only; urges finding the real “animating” issue for ordinary voters.

Notable Moments & Closing

• [28:48] On the anti-Trump message:
  • “My message wasn't an anti-Trump message as much as it was an affordability message. And he was driving up costs, which was very key.” (28:48)
• Invited to “change the vibe” at the governor’s mansion, Drum Thwacket, with a last bit of Christie bluster.
  • “If you’re ever having people by Drum Pocket, I’m open to come back to kinda change the vibe.” (Tim, [29:43])

Michael Fanone: Law Enforcement, Conspiracies, and State of American Policing

Epstein Revelations & Trump’s Connection

• [33:41] Discussing new emails from Epstein and Maxwell:
  • Fanone: “The cover up here for rich and powerful people that did some incredibly heinous, disgusting things is long, and that list is distinguished. And it’s not surprising to me at all.” (33:41)
  • Tim highlights the significance: “We have Epstein now in writing to Maxwell saying the victim... spent hours at my house with Trump. It seems pretty cut and dry about what Donald Trump was up to.” (35:01)
  • Fanone: “There’s so much evidence to show... Not only were they not just acquaintances, but they were friends... There seemed to spend a tremendous amount of time together and have a lot of financial intertwinings...” (35:23)

Right-Wing Conspiracies Targeting Cops

• [36:32] The Blaze’s “forensic gait analysis” smear campaign:
  • Fanone: “I hope she sues the Blaze and sues them into oblivion. This is a total bullshit story...I never heard of anybody using the gait of an individual as indisputable evidence that they were in fact the perpetrator. That's insane to me.” (38:28)
  • Lampoons MAGA conspiracy theories about “fed direction” of Jan 6th:
    • Tim: “The whole theory of the case is moronic.” (40:26)

January 6 Pardons and “Criminals” in the Trump Movement

• [43:28] Discussing pardoned rioter with a new sex crime charge:
  • Fanone: “I had the experience of having six individuals that pled guilty to assaulting me... Many of them had criminal convictions for drug trafficking, drug possession, spousal abuse, sex crimes... it's exactly what you would think, criminals.” (43:28)

Irony of QAnon, Child Abuse and Trump

• [44:17] Tim: “It seems like the pedophilia was coming from inside of the House. There might be a little bit of projection.”
• Fanone references an ongoing Instagram account chronicling Trump-world sex crimes: “They average like 30amonth.” (44:54)

Politicization and Incompetence at the FBI Under Cash Patel

• [48:17] Lampooning the new, bizarre Bureau leadership:
  • Fanone: “He’s a conspiracy theorist and a podcaster who is now the head of the FBI. What did we expect?” (48:21)
  • Tim: “...I was worried that he was going to... go after their phone records and shit. I thought it was pretty ominous. But instead he’s using the plane, the taxpayer plane, to go visit his girlfriend...” (48:36)
  • Mocking Cash Patel’s social media clownery, “imposter syndrome,” and ham-fisted interference in investigations.
  • Tim: “His panic… is right there in the eyes. He can't hide it.” (50:41)

Politicized Law Enforcement and Personal Reprisal

• [53:58] Fanone reports the FBI ignoring serious credible threats to him and his family, marking a change from past routine follow-up.
  • “I sent a host of information, a compiling of these threats to a friend of mine within the FBI, and despite attempts by me to follow up, never heard anything.”
  • “I went from being considered a victim... to [now] being targeted by my former colleagues who... now consider me to be a villain. Only because there's a different administration and we now, you know, they are politicizing the agency and politicizing prosecutions...” (54:16 - 55:59)

Rank and File, Immigration, and State-Sanctioned Violence

• [59:12] On federal and local law enforcement’s role in immigrant crackdowns:
  • “The bad actors are ICE and Customs and Border Patrol... I would rise to call it state sponsored violence. But the disappointment and the anger for me stems from the lack of response from the leadership of these state, local and municipal agencies.” (59:12)

Retasking Federal Law Enforcement

• [62:36] Reveals that child exploitation investigators are being pulled into immigration enforcement:
  • “I have several friends in DHS who work child exploitation cases... they've been retasked for months at a time to put those cases on hold and go around and do jump outs at Home Depot to try to grab, you know, people who... are only undocumented and have committed no crime.” (62:36)

Notable Quotes

Mikie Sherrill:

• “Liberty and prosperity. You need both. When you're shut out of school, jobs, when you have a president running a worldwide extortion racket…and your costs go up every day, that's a really important fight.” — [03:15]
• “I think we're building back the Democratic brand as this really strong brand.” — [05:24]
• “I do think, you know, people want to build something. For example, I think some of the reason I connected so well with the Latino vote was because they're our most entrepreneurial group...” — [14:33]
• “It was my message wasn’t an anti-Trump message as much as it was an affordability message, and he was driving up costs, which was very key.” — [28:48]

Michael Fanone:

• “I hope she sues the Blaze and sues them into oblivion. This is a total bullshit story.” — [38:28]
• “What did we expect?” (On Cash Patel running the FBI) — [48:21]
• “I went from being considered a victim because of what happened to me on January 6th... now I am actually being targeted by my former colleagues...” — [54:16]
• “All across this country, investigations are going unstaffed and unopened simply because they just don’t have the resources.” (on ICE/Border Patrol priorities) — [63:41]

Tim Miller:

• “I guess it hasn't permeated the bubble of the truffle parties that Donald Trump is having in Mar-a-Lago.” — [24:34]
• “The whole theory of the case is moronic.” (on Jan 6 Fed conspiracies) — [40:26]
• “If you’re a Democrat, you got to make sure that your mortgage filings — $19,000 is a lot of money — are perfect, because that’s something they’re investigating pretty closely.” — [64:32]

Key Takeaways & Political Analysis

• Mikie Sherrill’s win in New Jersey (by a stunning margin) was powered by focusing on affordability, opportunity, and practical economic relief—not ideological warfare or resistance rhetoric.
• Democrats, according to Sherrill, must “go to the ground” to find out what matters—top-down messages or consultant groupthink are often disconnected.
• The Trump administration is not just governing with reactionary policies; it's actively undermining the basic infrastructure of government and politicizing law enforcement, redirecting scarce resources towards headline-driven priorities such as immigration.
• Michael Fanone delivers a scathing, insider critique of right-wing media, MAGA conspiracy-mongering against law enforcement, and the dangerous transformation of federal agencies under Trump and his loyalists.
• The episode is bracingly direct and often darkly funny, balancing righteous anger with moments of gallows humor and camaraderie.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Mikie Sherrill Interview:

  • Governor-elect banter – [01:17]
  • Election night/ground game – [05:12]
  • Affordability and economic strategy – [08:48]
  • Relations with Trump, strategic confrontation – [18:02]
  • Adapting to Trump's America, message advice – [25:23]

• Michael Fanone Interview:

  • Epstein/Trump emails – [33:41]
  • Trump-world media disinfo (The Blaze pipe bomb smear) – [36:32]
  • Jan 6 rioters/pardons & QAnon irony – [43:28]
  • Cash Patel as FBI director, politicized law enforcement – [48:17, 53:58]
  • Immigration enforcement, retasked agents – [59:12, 62:36]

The Bulwark Podcast continues to provide an unvarnished, reality-based look at American politics—often darkly comic, always urgent, and determined to call out the dangers of authoritarianism, both in style and substance.