Neera Tanden: America's 'Daddy' Is in a Rut

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Neera Tanden: America's 'Daddy' Is in a Rut
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Neera Tanden, President & CEO of Center for American Progress

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Tim Miller welcomes Neera Tanden for a lively and in-depth discussion on recent political developments. The conversation zeroes in on the Republican Party’s economic messaging, Democratic performance in key electoral races, Trump’s corruption and self-enrichment, the ongoing fallout from the Jeffrey Epstein saga, and strategic directions for Democrats, especially around coalition-building and future Senate races. The episode is marked by humor, pointed critiques, and candid insights into the realities of today’s political landscape.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Economic Messaging and Affordability (01:54–10:50)

• Trump’s Casino Rally: Trump’s speech in the Poconos, focusing on affordability, included bizarre prescriptions like telling Americans to buy fewer dolls and pencils.
  • Quote (Neera): “Nothing welcomes the Christmas spirit more than telling little girls across the country that four dolls is too much.” [02:43]
  • The hosts riffed humorously on Trump's tone-deaf pitch and how Republicans have drifted from free market messaging to blaming consumer desires.
• Contrast with Traditional GOP: Tanden describes Trump’s economic message as reminiscent of austerity-era Dickensian rhetoric.
  • Quote (Neera): “We've been thinking about, you know, kind of the 1930s, but this is really more reminiscent of like an Oliver Twist, 1880s kind of thing.” [03:23]
• Disconnection from Voters’ Reality: Both note that denying inflation or affordability issues doesn’t work when Americans are feeling real price hikes—a “hoax” narrative won’t stick.
  • Quote (Tim): “You can’t really convince them that things are cheaper when they’re more expensive.” [04:58]
• Political Impact: Neera highlights how dismissing affordability as a hoax has backfired for Republicans in recent races.

2. Democratic Overperformance in Local and Special Elections (04:48–08:34; 12:51–15:48)

• Miami and Georgia Results: Democrats’ successes in flipping long-held Republican or competitive seats are underscored as evidence that poll denialism and economic messaging are misfiring for GOP.
  • Neera emphasizes that even some Republicans are seeing Trump’s economic platform as “cuckoo.” [04:37]
• Big Tent Opportunities: There’s potential for Democrats to expand electoral reach, building on gains among Hispanic and independent voters, especially in urban areas like Miami and New Jersey.

3. Trump’s Tariff and Inflation Record vs. Biden’s Stimulus (08:34–10:49)

• Policy Comparison: Tanden draws a line between pandemic-driven inflation (Biden) and deliberate cost-raising (Trump tariffs).
  • Quote (Neera): “It’s a paragraph to get to ‘we had a stimulus that was hot,’... It’s one sentence to ‘I raised the price of your soccer balls and your coffee.’” [09:08]
• The conversation acknowledges legitimate debates about stimulus policy while highlighting that Trump’s own economic agenda actively raised consumer costs.

4. Midterms, Voter Turnout, and Big Tent Strategy (13:46–18:07; 35:00–43:35)

• Trump on the Ballot: GOP strategist Susie Wiles proposes putting Trump front and center to drive turnout. Tanden contends the real risk is alienating former Trump voters now dissatisfied with his record.
• Democratic Message: Neera urges Democrats to focus on affordability, healthcare, and building a “really big tent,” appealing to independents and non-MAGA Republicans, not just base turnout.
  • Quote (Neera): “The challenge for them is they care so little about working class people...their answer is to not just ignore your problem, but to make it worse.” [17:16]
• Healthcare as Key Issue: Both agree that Democrats have won the shutdown and healthcare message wars, while Republicans continue to lack a viable alternative to the ACA.

5. Trump, Corruption, and Crypto (21:50–26:45)

• Trump’s Self-Enrichment: The Center for American Progress is tracking Trump’s and his family's financial gains during his presidency, tallying over a billion dollars when including crypto.
  • Quote (Neera): “Unlike any president in history, this president is enriching himself through his office.” [22:57]
• Communication Challenge: The vastness of the graft makes it almost hard for the public to believe. Tanden calls for concrete ethics reforms (like banning congressional stock trading) and relating corruption to real-world hardship.
  • Quote (Neera): “We have to do real work on what are the ideas that would actually stop this in the future and not just leave this to norms.” [24:48]
• Juxtaposition: Tanden highlights the “gold ballroom” metaphor—a sharp contrast with Americans in food bank lines while Trump profits.
  • Quote (Neera): “He was going to court to basically try to stop giving people food...while he was building a gold ballroom...I think it really is the juxtaposition of that.” [27:21]

6. The Epstein Files and Political Fallout (28:58–33:20)

• Impending Revelations: With Epstein-related records set to release, Tanden suspects Trump is implicated, alluding to his close association with Epstein and unusual efforts to quash disclosure.
  • Quote (Neera): “Donald Trump was probably aware of some horrifying things...why would you go to this level of obstruction to keep these files out...?” [29:16]
• GOP Projection: Tanden points out the irony of the MAGA movement’s constant accusations while ignoring Trump’s own documented proximity to Epstein.
• Handling Democratic Issues: Tanden states Dems must be unequivocal in denouncing anyone on their side implicated and points to a willingness within the party to take social and political action, citing the treatment of Larry Summers and response to Clinton associations.

7. Democratic Coalition, Texas Senate, and Winning Strategies (35:00–45:11)

• Texas Senate Race: Discussion shifts to strategies for winning in tough states. Crockett’s base-turnout focuses are contrasted with the need for persuasion and coalition-building, especially with Hispanics and independents.
  • Quote (Neera): “Primaries aren’t participation trophies...The job is who cares if you win a primary if you just go crash out in the general.” [38:33]
  • Quote (Neera): “A non voter is a person who didn’t think it was, as is so important to them to vote...So it is persuasion to get them to come vote.” [41:58]
• Looking Beyond 2026: Tanden stresses the importance of building Democratic strength in Iowa, Ohio, and Texas, warning that post-2030 the Senate map will be even more daunting for Democrats if they can’t win in those states soon.

8. Rapid Fire – Indian American GOP Racism, Kamala Harris Book Tour, Air Travel (46:50–52:40)

• Republican Racism toward Indian Americans: Tanden calls out MAGA’s inherent white nationalism and why outreach to people of color, including Indian Americans, is fundamentally at odds with the movement’s nature.
  • Quote (Neera): “There is a white nationalist element to the MAGA movement…we’re all brown. It’s like that’s how it’s going for you.” [47:28]
• Kamala Harris Reflections: Tanden expresses affection for Harris but suggests she now needs to project more of her fighter persona.
• Airline Micro-Workouts & Dress Codes: Tanden rejects the idea that travelers should wear suits or work out in terminals, reminding officials to improve the air travel experience before issuing lifestyle demands.
  • Quote (Neera): “You do your job and make travel better, and then maybe everyone else will do their job, but don’t make us wear suits while you make our lives miserable.” [50:48]

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On Trump’s Austerity Economics:
  “Nothing welcomes the Christmas spirit more than telling little girls across the country that four dolls is too much.”
  — Neera Tanden [02:43]

• On Tariffs and Stimulus:
  “It's a paragraph to get to 'we had a stimulus that was hot' ... It's one sentence to 'I raised the price of your soccer balls and your coffee.'”
  — Neera Tanden [09:08]

• On Democratic Big Tent:
  “It is the case that Trump has brought out those sort of low propensity voters in the past. But...those voters have been voting on the economy and now they see him as a cause of their problem, not a solution.”
  — Neera Tanden [15:48]

• On Trump Self-Enrichment:
  “Unlike any president in history, this president is enriching himself through his office.”
  — Neera Tanden [22:57]

• On Nonvoters:
  “A non voter is a person who didn’t think it was, as is so important to them to vote. So it is persuasion to get them to come vote.”
  — Neera Tanden [41:58]

• On Airline Dress Codes:
  “You do your job and make travel better, and then maybe everyone else will do their job, but don’t make us wear suits while you make our lives miserable.”
  — Neera Tanden [50:48]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump’s Doll Rant & Austerity Messaging: 01:54–04:44
• Democratic Wins & GOP Affordability ‘Hoax’: 04:48–08:13
• Trump Tariffs vs. Biden Stimulus: 08:34–10:50
• Recent Special Elections & Big Tent: 12:51–15:48
• Healthcare, Shutdown Politics: 17:16–20:04
• Trump Family Corruption / Cryptocurrency: 21:50–26:45
• Epstein Files & Political Fallout: 28:58–33:20
• Texas Senate, Turnout vs. Persuasion: 35:00–45:11
• Rapid Fire: Indian Americans, Kamala Harris, Airline Fashion: 46:50–52:40

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Tone and Style

The conversation is dynamic, sardonic, sharply analytical, and often irreverent—typical of the Bulwark’s “no both-sides BS” brand. Both Miller and Tanden infuse the discussion with pointed humor, relatable anecdotes, and a consistent focus on policy substance over political spin.

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Summary Takeaway

Neera Tanden delivers a sober yet optimistic take on the Democratic Party's prospects against a faltering, self-interested Trump-led GOP. She urges coalition-building, sharp economic messaging, and concrete ethics reforms to meet the current political moment. The episode blends serious policy critique, electoral analysis, and wit, making it a must-listen (or a comprehensive must-read) for politically engaged listeners.

Transcript

[Neera Tanden]

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[Neera Tanden]

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[Tim Miller]

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[Neera Tanden]

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[Tim Miller]

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Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show my friend, president and CEO of the center for American Progress. I'm not gonna do the whole bio. She's worked for every establishment Democrat out there. Basically.

[Neera Tanden]

I'm getting off. What kind of thing is that?

[Tim Miller]

It's near a table.

[Neera Tanden]

Spirit out the window.

[Tim Miller]

You want the full bio? Do you wanna go to bio?

[Neera Tanden]

I just like. Do we have to say establishment Democrat? Couldn't we just say winning or some other word?

[Tim Miller]

Winning? Yeah. I never had any wins, so.

[Neera Tanden]

Multiple runs in the White House, multiple losses. I had some glasses.

[Tim Miller]

You did. We're not getting to talk about those, but, you know, multiple stints in the White House. Unlike me, it's Neera. I've got so much to talk to you about. I think we're gonna start just by making fun of the Trump rally yesterday. Just kind of warm. Everybody's cockles a little bit. He went out to speak at a casino in the Poconos. Why not? About the economy. And as Trump does, he kind of reads from the show notes Live, where he's like, my team is telling me I gotta talk about affordability, even though it's a hoax. And he talked about how tariffs was his favorite word. We don't play his voice here, so I'm going to just read this part to you. He tells people if they're concerned about affordability, they can give up certain products. You can give up pencils. Kids only need one or two. They also don't need 37 dolls for your daughter. Two or three is nice, but you don't need 37 dolls.

[Neera Tanden]

Nothing welcomes the Christmas spirit. Then More than telling little girls across the country that four dolls is too much.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I think it's tighten the belt.

[Neera Tanden]

I guess I'd ask you. I mean, I just think this is like a fascinating journey for the Republican Party to go from the market works, et cetera, to really, the big problem in America is people want little kids want too many dolls. Asking for five pencils is too much.

It's really, it's like a fascinating journey. I mean, I sometimes wonder whether with the tariff policy and alienating your allies. We've been thinking about, you know, kind of the 1930s, but this is really more reminiscent of like an Oliver Twist, 1880s kind of thing.

[Tim Miller]

So, yeah, William Jennings, Brian.

Dust Bowl.

[Neera Tanden]

I hope Donald Trump takes this message, this really crucial economic message to every corner of the country. And I thought it was amazing that like, basically as he was talking about his economic policy in a casino, because that's not too on the nose. He basically. Democrats were winning this, you know, seat in Miami, the mayor's race, which they haven't won in 30 years. Now it's a nonpartisan race, but in Georgia, they flipped a seat that was 12 points for Republicans or Republican district leading Donald Trump went up by double digits. So my basic take here is that when you call affordability a hoax, eventually the facts catch up with you. And even.

Some Republicans can see this as cuckoo. That's my technical term for this. Cuckoo.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. You can convince your base who just has pickled their brains from watching Newsmax and Laura Ingram that like, you won an election, you lost. Like the hoax thing can work in certain cases because it doesn't affect their lives. They don't fucking know.

[Neera Tanden]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

You know, they're like, the people I'm watching on TV are telling me that the, you know, Italians did spy satellites and, you know, took over the, the voting machines. And that sounds believable. You can't really convince them that, like, things are cheaper when they're more expensive. You know, you can't really convince him that it's like, okay, you know, to just be on board for Donald and let your daughter sacrifice. I mean, it doesn't seem like he did much parenting of Ivanka and Tiffany. I will say somebody with a seven year old daughter, like, this is my, this is my thing that I could use most to radicalize her against this administration. It's like three dolls. Three. What are you talking, what are you talking about?

[Neera Tanden]

Exactly?

[Tim Miller]

You know, he was, at that time, I think he was out there doing his personal Vietnam where he was sleeping around and then getting STDs and calling the New York Post and telling them he was great in bed under a fake name. I think when Ivanka was in the doll stage, I think that's what Trump was doing, which might show why he's out of touch.

[Neera Tanden]

But what's fascinating about this discourse is that it's not happening over drinks, that this is just two people totally sober in the morning.

[Tim Miller]

I did have a couple glass of wine last night. He's also obsessed with your old boss, Biden. Did you watch it last night? Did you actually watch it or you see the clip?

[Neera Tanden]

I just have to tell you, it's like a mental health thing. I cannot watch more than two minutes of Donald Trump at any period. And the only reason why I'm on X or Twitter or wherever we call it is that you can actually still get clips.

[Tim Miller]

I'm with you. I had no intention of watching it. My colleague Andregar said if I would watch it with him, he'd watch it and we could do a YouTube video. So I sacrificed for the people, and I gotta tell you, I turned it on. And within one minute, he's like, talking about Sleepy Joe. And then, like you, I only could handle about five minutes. I turned it off, then turned it back on. And he's polling the crowd about whether it should be Sleepy Joe or Crooked Joe. You've been in politics for a while. There seems to have a limited shelf life of effectiveness of that of complaining about the last person.

[Neera Tanden]

Yeah. I mean, the real problem for Trump on this, I think, is that he has gone around telling everybody in every way possible for the last year that he's in charge. You know, from day one, I'm in charge. I'm doing the most executive actions. I've been the most impactful president. I run everything. I push around our allies. And then, you know, just in this one area, he's now like, he has no agency. It's just like. So, you know, I actually think people could have kind of an adult conversation about. I mean, I don't think Joe Biden is responsible for this economy. I think the tariffs, the economy was pretty good last year. I mean, people didn't feel it as well, but the overall numbers were better. But I'm not here to argue about that. I'm just here to say that you can't really go around telling the country you're the big boss and everyone, you're actually America's daddy. Just want to put that out there, how much they talk about that, even though that's really weird. And then say, when it comes to the economy, I don't control anything.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. The one thing I told you I was smart about, like, the one thing that I had experience about as a businessman, to me, in some ways, it's kind of funny. And, like, this is Trump has found himself, like, in a traditional politician pickle.

[Neera Tanden]

Oh, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

A lot of times, Trump finds himself in a pickle that, like, is unique to him because of, you know, whatever his behavior. This is like something basically every president almost has had to deal with at some point or the other. And I just wonder, like, hearing just all the discourse about this about, like, how does he talk about, how does he met, like, do you have any PTSD for BioDynamics? I'm wondering.

[Neera Tanden]

Oh, my God. Well, I want to separate two things out because I think they do get really confused. Okay. One is that, you know, Joe Biden, we had Covid. We had this, you know, mass dislocation. There were supply chain problems that led to, you know, big price increases for people. It's not like Joe Biden came into the White House and thought, hmm, how do I raise prices for people? Actually, that's what Donald Trump did.

[Tim Miller]

Some might argue the stimulus was a little hot.

[Neera Tanden]

You could say this. Okay, sure. The stimulus was a little hot. Maybe you want to say the stimulus was a little hot. It was to actually address an economy that at that moment looked like it was cratering a lot of data that was cratering for sure. And so, okay, the stimulus was hot. So that contributes to inflationary impulses. It's not like we came in and said, we're going to go just raise the price of goods. Okay. That's actually what Trump did. He was like, I believe in tariffs. What do tariffs do? They raise the price of goods. It's like a paragraph to get to. We had a stimulus that was hot, and then maybe that spent too much money and then that has inflationary pressures. It's like one sentence to I raise the price of your soccer balls and your coffee. You know, So I just think the challenge for Trump is he's more responsible for the anger people are feeling. And it's not just the terrorists. One big beautiful bill act is going to raise prices for health care and utility rates. So he has an agenda that actually raises costs for people, and then he has to address that. And I think the real challenge for him is the policy he cares about the most is the policy that is the least popular and is actually raising prices the most. It's like he would have to just disavow what he thinks, you know, I mean, he's now going through the motions. I totally understand the ptsd, which is, wow, this thing, inflation thing is really bad. We have to communicate we really care about it. But the real problem for Donald Trump is he can't even communicate genuine care about an issue that isn't about his own ego. So he has to say, I'm supposed to talk about how cost of living is high, but actually it's a democratic oath.

[Tim Miller]

Actually, things are great. Yeah.

[Neera Tanden]

Yeah. So, you know, I mean, he's, it's like, like anything. He's got a traditional politician's problem, but he just has it on steroids.

[Tim Miller]

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This is going to continue to be the problem up until next year, as you mentioned. You mentioned a couple of them I just want to just throw out there. Also, Democrats overperformed in two Florida specials yesterday. They lost, but they did like eight, I think 20 points about better. You mentioned that. Georgia state House. I just want to sit on this for one more second. Trump won this district by 13. It got gerrymandered by the Republican majority in Georgia. And it was. It's like a mini Nashville. We were talking about the Nashville seat last week where Nashville, like they did a pie, you know, a pizza pie, where that's like.

[Neera Tanden]

Yeah, they divided up this.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. The city. They did that for Athens, which is a college town. Go dogs. And. And one of those little pizza pies didn't work. And that backfired. So that's enjoyable. Susie Wiles has a solution for this. She was on this very creepy, kind of bizarro the view that made me kind of deeply uncomfortable. And so everyone has to watch it with me. Let's listen to Susie.

[Neera Tanden]

He's gonna have a fun next year.

[Tim Miller]

But we're gonna put him on the campaign trail, too.

[Neera Tanden]

Typically, just a little bit of campaign speak, if I may.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, typically you in the midterms, it's.

[Neera Tanden]

Not about who's sitting at the White House. It's you localize the election.

And you keep the federal officials out of it. We're actually going to turn that on its head.

[Tim Miller]

Good. And put him on the ballot because.

[Neera Tanden]

So many of those low propensity voters are Trump voters.

[Tim Miller]

Yes, they are. And we saw a week ago Tuesday what happens when he's not on the ballot and not active. So I haven't quite broken it to him yet, but he's going to campaign like it's 2024 again. Oh, no, no. Ooh. Can he do that still? I guess, is one question. Is he capable? How are you feeling at the center for American Progress about Susie putting Trump to work, getting him out there on the road a little more.

[Neera Tanden]

I feel great.

Look, they do have a quandary, but I think they sort of misunderstand the problem, I guess. I mean, to me, if I were Susie Wells, I would be looking at those Trump voters who voted for Abigail Spanberger and those Trump voters who voted for Mikey Sherrill. I think the thing to think about, just to Be serious for a moment is that if you look at these elections over the last couple of weeks, you know, there is really the potential of, you know, the opposition to Trump building a really big tent. You know, I know we get frustrated with MAGA voters, but there are non MAGA Republican voters and there are also non maga.

[Tim Miller]

Not even Republicans, like the new Hispanic voters voted for him this time, for example.

[Neera Tanden]

Exactly. Independent voters. People are just not into politics. We've seen. That's another good example in Miami just last night, also in New Jersey saw Latino voters really swinging back to the Democratic Party. So I think our focus should be still on building a really big tent because the challenge for.

Suzy Wells and Republicans, it is the case that Trump has brought out those sort of low propensity voters in the past. But I think the point you were making earlier is, you know, those low propensity voters aren't like reading the New York Times every day. So, you know, they're not like what's happening in the Caribbean or whatever. You know, they're not hyper focused on those issues, but what they are really focused on is whether their grocery prices are up 5 or 10 or $15 week to week, whether, you know, you know, their rent went up. And like, fundamentally the real problem for Donald Trump is his policies have made affordability harder. They've raised the cost of living, not lowered the cost of living for working class people. And you know, I think the fundamental quandary for them is they care so little about working class people actually they think they get them on his theatrics or whatever, hating other folks culture that, you know, they have, you know, this, this administration is very different from the first term. They actually have past policies that make life work worse for middle class and working class Americans. And so I think they're thinking like, I just go put him out and we get them. But I think what they're misunderstanding is those voters have been voting on the economy and now they see him as a cause of their problem, not a solution.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And healthcare also, they still, you know, they don't have a healthcare message after 10 years. And you worked on Obamacare a hundred years ago now in a different lifetime. And you know, they still, you know, they still have had decade, like three House speakers, four maybe since, since Obamacare has passed. And all of them promised an alternative and there isn't one. And, and that's the thing, I think that's really going to hit. And that's where I think, you know, while we're, I have some, I Have some concerns about Democrats coming in a second. But while, you know, while we're glazing the Democrats, that's where the shutdown message really worked, I think.

[Neera Tanden]

Well, I. I recently wrote in the Wall Street Journal, of all places, that I actually think Democrats basically won the shutdown.

[Tim Miller]

Interesting. That's something you might have heard on this podcast a couple weeks ago that was. That was negatively received. But anyway, you know, we'll see. Yeah, exactly, Judge, I guess.

[Neera Tanden]

Yeah, I feel like history might be judging in real time, actually.

[Tim Miller]

I should have read your Wall Street Journal. I had to get rid of my Wall Street Journal. It was, like, triggering in the morning. My father, God love him, would send me Wall Street Journal links to, like, rage bait me, I think, unintentionally. And so I had to just let my subscription expire, so I couldn't.

[Neera Tanden]

Well, I'll send it to you for free.

[Tim Miller]

Okay?

[Neera Tanden]

But the kids I made was multifold. Making health care the prominent issue is actually crucial. Also, not for nothing, but the shutdown, like, baited Donald Trump into the posture of cutting SNAP benefits while he was building himself a gold ballroom with donations from literally the biggest companies in America. So I. Which I actually think is. I fundamentally think the ballroom is affecting his numbers. It comes up in focus groups. People just talk about it. So, you know, I think it was a hugely crucial issue. It really is important to remind people what you fight for in politics. And so I think the healthcare debate is a crucial one. And I just have to say that it's been literally 15 years of them trying to come up with an alternative to the Affordable Care Act. And each and every time, the only answer they come up with is actually raising costs for consumers. Senator Cassidy has a proposal that just shifts costs, has high deductibles, make people pay a lot more for their health care. So, you know, their answer to health care has always been to shift the cost to consumers. And I think at a time where cost of living is a huge problem, you know, that's. That's just another example of how their answer is to not just ignore your problem, but to make it worse.

[Tim Miller]

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Tied to all of this is the corruption stuff and I promise this is my last. This is my last compliment. Okay, Nero, this is my last glaze. We can't get too.

[Neera Tanden]

We can't get too. Can we add an era?

[Tim Miller]

We can't get too high on our own supply.

[Neera Tanden]

I have to go.

[Tim Miller]

But the center of American progress is doing good work on this. It's probably the issue I'm second most obsessed with besides behind the immigration stuff, which is corruption and particularly as it relates to crypto. You've got. We'll put the link in the show Notes for people, something called Trump's take where you try to assess what the amount of profits that his family has taken in during this administration. You're measuring it over a billion. Something that's not paper because it's in the shitcoin. So if Melania coin goes down in value, could start to go the other direction eventually, but still quite a lot. That is why I do I agree with you that the ballroom stuck. I don't know that this has stuck yet. And I'm wondering how you think the Democrats could and should be using the material you're putting up here, listing out all of the ways that his family is enriching himself to try to help break that through a little more.

[Neera Tanden]

Well, thanks for highlighting this. We are actually quite conservative on the way we assess these numbers so that they are kind of foolproof. But the bottom line is that unlike any president in history, this president is enriching himself through his office. You know, I think that this does have to be married with a positive agenda. You know, I think one of the challenges is a lot of people are like, oh, all politicians are crap now. We're seeing a level of corruption that I don't think, like, in anyone's, like, most creative thoughts in the Democratic Party they could come up with.

[Tim Miller]

It's hard to explain to. This is, like, a serious question. It is. I was. I did one of these Gen Z podcasts with some, like, guy who's, like. Who, like, made money on crypto and didn't know what to do with himself. And he started a podcast like, interviews mma. Guys, I'm trying to get out of the bubble. Okay. I'm trying to get out of both sides. I was like, okay, cool. I know.

[Neera Tanden]

It's good to talk to other people.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So I did an interview, and he was like. I was like, man, you don't understand how bad the corruption is. And he's like, well, it's, like, worse than Hunter Biden's. And I'm like, the scale is not even in the same universe. And you're trying to explain it, and it's almost. It's almost so big that it's hard for people to believe it's true, actually, how much money they're taking.

[Neera Tanden]

Yeah. I mean, there's the money he's getting. The fact that he basically took his biggest donor and had that person kind of control large swaths of the government and just kill regulations or put people in jobs over agencies that he was that subject to regulation.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, and then multiple other guys. Both Lutnick and Witkoff's kids are literally in business with the Trumps. I don't even think the money that the Witkoff and Lutnick kids are making is in your. Is in your total. So if, like, you counted all of them, too, because those guys are all making bank. I think it was the best year ever for the Lutnick kids. Mutual fund Shocker. Shocker.

[Neera Tanden]

I know. And then also just like, the way they're looking at Russia as, like, a business opportunity for their donors. It's so pervasive and daunting. It is a little hard to, like, get your mind around. My basic recommendation is that, you know, we have to do real work on what are the ideas that would actually stop this in the future and not just leave this to norms, but prohibit it and really tend to try to build this idea that whether it's a Democrat or Republican, you shouldn't be able to profit off of public service. Now, I think we live in a cynical age, and people have watched too many episodes of House of Cards, and so they think kind of everybody does this in Washington.

[Tim Miller]

We've seen the stock trading stuff, and that's legitimate.

[Neera Tanden]

And honestly, Democrats should have banned stock trading when we had the opportunity. And so I do think that the way to really make this most salient and the center for American Progress is working on ideas on this. Democrats have to have an agenda that bans stock trades, that also just creatively thinks about how we end these abuses. And then people might give them a little bit more quarter to talk about this. I also think this will be a lot easier for outsiders to talk about, talk about, and there'll be a lot of outsiders challenging Republican incumbents cycle. My last point here is there's just so much of it, right. Like, one of the reasons why we did this analysis of just the overall number is that it gives you one, like, entryway to pull it all together and say, you know, he's enriching himself by over a billion dollars because there's a story after story after story that becomes like a drip, drip, drip. So I think it's really all of those things, but I think actually people do care about this. They just need that example, like the Gold Ballroom that I think crystallizes it.

[Tim Miller]

I think that inverse, too. I don't like. I don't know how you break this through. And Kentucky is like, obviously now a competitive state, but you see, the picture is like a viral picture going around the Food bank line in Kentucky. I do think that at some level, it's kind of like, okay, maybe he's not taking up 1.8 billion. Like, maybe it's half of what Cap says. And his family's brought in 900 million. And we have the longest Food bank people I've ever seen.

[Neera Tanden]

More likely to be like six times.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, right, sure. Exactly.

[Neera Tanden]

I'm just saying let's give them the.

[Tim Miller]

Benefit of the doubt. Let's say it's 10%. He's made 180 million. And meanwhile, they're making cuts that mean they're the longest food bank lines people have ever seen in these parts of the country.

[Neera Tanden]

I think you're absolutely right. Like, I think the thing about the shutdown was, I think it's the juxtaposition of he was going to court to basically try to stop giving people food who were hungry in America while he was building a gold ballroom, taking a wrecking ball to the east wing and building himself a gold ballroom. And I think it really is the juxtaposition of that. And I think it is just as you're saying, food banks are expanding in America while he's taking all this crypto money. And on top of that, he's acting like there's no problem, like there's. It's not actually harder for you. You're just wrong. It's a fake delusion.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Neera Tanden]

Few fewer dolls.

[Tim Miller]

How many dolls do the children of the people in that food bank line have? Because maybe they should be putting them on ebay. Y.

[Neera Tanden]

Too many, apparently. I mean, the thing I think about fascinating is the pencils. Like, Pencils are like 6 cents now. I mean, I was like, how did he go to pencils? He came up with the cheapest thing in America and was like, you have too many of those.

[Tim Miller]

I will say, sometimes kids are little willy nilly as pencils. My husband's out of town this week, so I was on homework duty last night. And, you know, I mean, she breaks the pencil and it's like, I want a new one. She doesn't like the eraser. So I do. I understand his feedback on that. I think my daughter's.

[Neera Tanden]

You're like, yeah, yeah, let's disappoint.

[Tim Miller]

She's being a little less.

[Neera Tanden]

They break the pencil. Let's just. Fewer pencils.

[Tim Miller]

We're going to tighten our belts here.

[Neera Tanden]

You and Donald Trump share the attitude that the kids have too many pencils. Clearly, that's the problem of America today.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, that is. That's where the affordability crisis is. He's also running into some trouble with Jeffrey Epstein. I don't know if you saw that. We're nine days away from the supposed release date of that. Is there a dem. Caught the car moment on this? What do you think is next on the Epstein stuff?

[Neera Tanden]

I think Donald Trump will be in the Epstein files.

I think it'll be that it will look like he knew what was going on. So, I mean, I. I think like, the most obvious explanation for this whole situation where they're trying to ensure that these files never come to light is that, you know, we'll find out that Donald Trump was probably aware of some horrifying things. I mean, unless everyone is crazy, like, why would you go to this level of obstruction to keep these files out so out of the public eye?

[Tim Miller]

I mean, the only group of people that he has consistently shown empathy for, though, throughout his life are men who are accused of sexual harassment and assault. Powerful men.

[Neera Tanden]

I'd like to amend that because he's shown a tremendous amount of empathy for a woman, Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, yes, for men. For men. And one woman who are accused of sexual assault. People are accused of sexual assault. He, like, he's really like, you know, could you put yourself in their shoes for once? Okay. And so I do think it's possible.

[Neera Tanden]

And like, also, I mean, like, just like, just like what is the explanation for the summer camp Ghislaine Maxwell is in right now? Like, I mean, like, it's just like, it's so interesting to me. I mean, I have to say that I have said this elsewhere, but I just find this Epstein situation like such a fascinating, like mass psychology break, right? Because MAGA focuses so much all the time on pedophiles. Like, everyone's a pedophile. They called Joe Biden a pedophile. The whole thing was crazy. Everybody's a groomer.

[Tim Miller]

That was their.

[Neera Tanden]

Everyone's a groomer. Everyone's a pedophile. Every gay person. I mean, it's just horrifying. They're just like horrifying. And it's like a thing they say all the time. And right in front of them, here are the facts. Donald Trump was like really good buddies with Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, we've all lived with Donald Trump for 10 years. Have you seen him look at Melania as adoringly as he looked as Jeffrey Epstein? He's never looked at her like the way he looked at Jeffrey Epstein in those pictures in the 80s where he's fake dancing. I mean, it's just like, come on people, do we really think he had no idea what's going on? They were like friends forever. He has no idea. I mean, come on. And like, why would we go through this year long effort to obstruct everything going on that we have to have a house vote that he breaks with Marjorie Taylor? Greed, his biggest supporter over Jeffrey Epstein? Like, it doesn't make any sense. Unless maybe they'll burn the file he's in. Who knows? But I'm looking forward to it.

[Tim Miller]

Great. I'm glad you're looking forward to it. How do Dems deal with the cause? Obviously more information comes out and there'll be collaborators with Epstein across the political spectrum. I mean, like you worked for the Clintons, Bill maybe, you know, at least dealt with him in some ways. Larry Summers was at cap. He had to leave. We saw his emails asking Jeffrey for dating advice for some reason. Like how did Dems deal with situations like that as additional information comes out.

[Neera Tanden]

I mean, they should condemn people like, you know, like anyone who knows about sex trafficking should be like an accomplice or in jail. Right. You know, I mean, I think this is the thing. There was a widespread social sanction of Larry Summers. You know, he's basically asking dating advice from Jeffrey Epstein after the Julie Brown article is out, after the Julie Brown article was out, after he'd already been convicted. So, you know, pretty bad. So the recent files on Jeffrey Epstein seem to be a little bit exonerating around Bill Clinton saying he was never on the island. But whatever, let's get all the data out. And I think Democrats have been very clear about this. You know, let the chips fall where they may.

[Tim Miller]

This is Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Wireless earbuds are for those who are the first to try something unique. The first wireless earbuds on the market with a touchscreen case which allows you to control your audio without reaching for your phone. They also have a touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control. I love being able to touch my buds and control the volume with a built in wireless that lets you plug and play with any device you want. JBL wireless earbuds connects you to all your favorite music, movies and games. The wireless transmitter also allows for JBL superior spatial sound that takes any audio and turns it into a 360 immersive experience. They've got a next gen smart charging case for a seamless listening experience. Leave your phone in your pocket. The smart charging case has all the features you need to fully control and customize your listening experience and the earbud settings in multiple lengths languages right from the case. Use the smart charging case to see what song is playing or who's calling you or personalize the tactile screen with your favorite photo. Check the dynamic lock screen to get info on battery life, status, time, messages, et cetera. JBL Wireless Earbuds Grab a [e-mail].

The clock's running out on December deal drops at Lowe's. But there's still time to wrap up something they'll love. Shop great gifts under $50 like the Dewalt Elite Series 100 piece bit set. Plus if you order by 2pm you get same day delivery by 8pm Shop December deal drops while you can. Lowe's. We help you save.

My other Democratic concern right now. This is an awkward transition, but we just, we are where we are. You were talking earlier about the big tent. You know, Jasmine Crockett has gotten in the race in Texas Senate. She's expressed some thoughts about maybe, maybe less excited about the big tenth than you. There's a report from Notice yesterday the NRSC apparently was robo calling Democrats, urging them to call Crockett's office to tell her to run and then connecting the caller to the office. They also ran and pushed around polls showing her ahead to try to encourage her to win. I don't, I don't know if that affected her at all, but I think that tells you a lot about what the Republicans think. Crockett said. When they tell us Texas is red, they're lying. We're not. The reality is most Texans don't get out to vote. People that I used to work with in the Texas House did everything they could to make sure they could suppress voices. I guess that's kind of true. But she then was on CNN talking about how winning over Trump voters is not as important as getting out base voters and people who didn't vote. Do you have concerns about all that? This feels kind of important. The Texas Senate race.

[Neera Tanden]

Here's what I think everyone should look at, which is the state of Arizona. Ten, 15 years ago, no one thought Arizona could be a state in which you have two Democratic senators and a Democratic governor. Arizona, it is a pretty reddish state. It has more Republicans than Democrats. It has a lot of independents. It's closer to Texas than, you know, lots of the country. You know, my basic take on 2026 is that I actually believe a real opportunity to create actual accountability for Donald Trump by taking back both the House and the Senate. I just want to remind everybody it's hugely important to take back the House. But if you want to put an end to the craziest loons being nominated and in our government, the way to do that is through winning the Senate. It is a very hard map. It's not an easy map. But when you see these numbers out of Georgia, where Democrats are outperforming by 12 points, that does put states like Iowa, Ohio, and even Texas in play. In My view, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

And we're just seeing this swing and the swing in that Tennessee again, this is a special special. It's different than a midterm. Turnout will be higher. But in that Tennessee special It was a 13 point swing. Texas Trump won by 14 last time, but Cruz only beat Allred by eight, eight and a half. And so like a 10 point swing from that Cruz Allred race puts Texas in play. Yeah, it's not crazy. It's not likely, it's not crazy. It's doable.

[Neera Tanden]

I mean, Beto O' Rourke came in within two and a half points in 2018. Is this, could this be a three point better race, period or environment than 2018? Sure, it could be. I think there's just like a basic fact here about the math of Texas. A Democrat to win in Texas, like a Democrat to win in Arizona has to win, you know, basically almost all the Democrats, a lot of independents and probably some Republicans.

[Tim Miller]

So.

[Neera Tanden]

And actually I will say better work did that. He was able, he attracted a lot of independents and even some Republicans in 18. In particular in 18. It was not as, not like that later, but it was definitely like that in 18. So I think the truth of the matter is, at least from my perspective, the job of the voters in a primary is not to make yourself feel good.

[Tim Miller]

Okay?

[Neera Tanden]

It's not to be like woo hoo. I mean, I like. What do I really like? It is in this environment, if you wanna hold Trump accountable, the job of primary voters is to find the candidate who can win the general election. And I think that is what people will decide. And you know, I mean it's up, I believe it's up to Jasmine Crockett and Tellarico to make the case that they are the best people to win the general election. I don't think like there's no. Primaries aren't participation trophies. Like the job is who cares if you win a primary if you just go crash out in the general. Now I think Jasmine Crockett has, I mean she is like a House member who has created this like entire whirlwind around her and she has a lot of followers. And so I think should probably see a primary is good for this. Voters will ask her over and over again, how are you going to win? How are you going to get independence? And I think let's see how the primary goes.

[Tim Miller]

I agree with that. Just to be clear, I like Jasmine Crockett.

[Neera Tanden]

I do too.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know her that well personally, but I've met her twice and very affable from St. Louis before she moved to Texas. My people, we both were born in St. Louis. And she's charming, obviously talented. What I'm worried about is the things she's saying about the race. Like, that's what worries me, right? Like, and that's the CNN interview. She was like, look, Beto only lost by three, and he won 65% of Latino voters and 90% of black voters. And so if we, like, turn out those voters, we can win. And I was thinking, well, but he lost. And that's a high number we're going to get. You're going to get 65% of Hispanic voters. Like, that's a lot of work, right? That's. They're not just going to vote for you just because you're a Democrat. Right. Like, since 18, Hispanic voters have moved to the right significantly. Now, they can tack back, they can tack back. Democrats can win them back for sure. But that's not like a turnout game, really. That's a persuasion. Like, you got to go persuade them and convince them. Sometimes they get a little bit concerned when you hear about, well, we just got to excite people and get people who didn't vote and turn out the people who didn't vote. And I'm like, that's important. It's particularly important in, like, a close. If you're in Georgia, I'd be like, that's really important in a state that's close. In a state like Texas, you gotta go win over people that voted for Trump, period.

[Neera Tanden]

Okay? Like, Texas hasn't elected a Democrat statewide in a while. So.

[Tim Miller]

And it's not just because people who are Democrats been too lazy to vote the last 30 years. Yeah, you can juice out a few more. There are some more Democrats you can find, but you gotta go find people voted for Trump. That's all I'm saying. He's won three times.

[Neera Tanden]

I think the really most important thing to think about is, you know, you have to really assess whether people who haven't voted are more liberal than people who have voted.

[Tim Miller]

And it might not be the case.

[Neera Tanden]

But it might not be the case. It might be that they're just, like, happy with Republicans so they don't vote. I mean, in 2024, you know, I mean, this has been like a big raging debate in the Democratic Party over, like, I don't know, forever of like, should you build a bigger tent or should you just juice out your turnout? And the truth is that in 2024 in particular, it was the case that non voters skewed more conservative than voters overall. Now, of course, it's a big pile of non voters. Like if everybody voters, non voters who are more liberal, who don't vote. And I'm sure people are like, well, let's just attract those people. But the truth is a non voter is a person who you have not persuaded to vote.

[Tim Miller]

That's a great point.

[Neera Tanden]

A non voter is a person who didn't think it was, as is so important to them to vote. So they are making a judgment about your candidacy. So it is persuasion to get them to come vote. Like, they have to believe it matters to them. I mean, look, to win in Texas, you have to do both things really well. You have to turn out your own voters. And this is the hard thing in Texas for Democrats. You have to turn out your own voters and persuade people. And I guess I would say I hope Democratic voters in Texas give people the grace to be able to reach out to independents and some Republicans. I mean, I just say in the data, we are seeing a cleavage between, you know, non MAGA Republicans and Republicans. I mean, MAGA Republicans, you know, they're down the road with Trump. They blame Democrats for affordability or think it's a hoax. They blame them for the premium tax credits or don't care.

[Tim Miller]

They're just, they're happy. People are being deported. That's all that matters.

[Neera Tanden]

They're happy across the board.

[Tim Miller]

But.

[Neera Tanden]

But there are people who voted for Trump, the non kind of MAGA voters who, when it comes to the premium tax credits, they blame Donald Trump for what's happening right now. The things that are bringing his numbers into the 30s are people who voted for him who don't like what he's doing. So I think a lot of time Democrats confuse MAGA voters with everyone who's voted for Trump, and that is just definitely not the case. Any big tactical mistake, it really limits our ability to have gigantic elections. And, you know, again, I'll just say Abigail Spinberger, Mike Oshero did this. It's not like it never happened. It just happened a few weeks ago.

[Tim Miller]

Another heated agreement I just taped with the little teaser for everybody. I just did Gavin Newsom's podcast, which will be out tomorrow, and I just did a big rant about this on the Senate. You know, he was like, rightfully gets a ton of credit for what they did with redistricting and that he deserves ton of credit.

[Neera Tanden]

It was a big risk. He took it and he won.

[Tim Miller]

I gave it to him. And because of that, in part, in large part because of it, really, in addition to all Donald Trump's mistakes that you just laid out. Democrats are in pretty good shape to win the House. It's not done. Nothing's done. You got to work for it, whatever. But Democrats are in pretty good shape. It's a fine midterm to win the House. That's fine. But you can't be happy excited about the midterm unless the Democrats figure out a way to get the Senate. And that is going to require, like you said, Iowa, Ohio and Texas if Trump is in that bad of shape, if the Democrats should. Because I think it would be a sign that the Democratic Party is not healthy if you can't get to 50 senators in a year where Donald Trump is getting schlonged across the country.

[Neera Tanden]

I mean, I'd put it this way, I guess, which is, I mean it is a tough map, but I think it's a tough map. But what I'd say is post 2030 the Democratic Party is in big trouble in the Senate if it can't win states like Iowa and Ohio. So 2020's 6 is kind of the perfect time to start building in those states. And so and you've great, you've great candidates running in Iowa. You know, Zach Walls, others are running and then in Ohio, Sherrod Brown is running and you know, he's a great candidate. So we should try to create the conditions where people can win those states.

[Tim Miller]

This is Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Wireless earbuds are for those who are the first to try something new unique. The first wireless earbuds on the market with a touchscreen case which allows you to control your audio without reaching for your phone. They also have a touchscreen smart charging case for one touch control. I love being able to touch my buds and control the volume with a built in wireless transmitter that lets you plug and play with any device you want. JBL wireless earbuds connects you to all your favorite music, movies and games. The wireless transmitter also allows for JBL superior spatial sound that takes any audio and turns it into a 360 immersive experience. They've got a next gen smart charging case for a seamless listening experience. Leave your phone in your pocket. The smart charging case has all the features you need to fully control and customize your listening experience and the earbud settings in multiple languages right from the case. Use the smart charging case to see what song is playing or who's calling you or personalize the tactile screen with your favorite photo. Check the dynamic lock screen to get info on battery life, status, time, messages, etc. JBL Wireless Earbuds grab a pair at jbl.com.

The clock's running out on December deal drops at Lowe's, but there's still time to wrap up something they'll love. Shop great gifts under $50 like the Dewalt Elite Series 100 piece bit set. Plus if you order by 2pm you get same day delivery by 8pm Shop December deal drops while you can. Lowe's we help you save.

I have three rapid fire. I just need to hear what Neera thinks about all these topics. Number one, the Republican you're Indian American. The kind of Republican fight about Indian immigrants that's happening. The racist fight over Indian immigrants. You saw that on that leaked text chain. Or some really disgusting racist comments about Indians. There are all these like concerns that H1B visas and you know, whether too many Indian Americans are coming here. You're hearing some really gross stuff simultaneously. There was like an article recently about how Republicans should be reaching out to Indian Americans because they're traditionally conservative. I just, I'm wondering what you make about that whole convo happening on the other side.

[Neera Tanden]

Honestly, I think this is true for Indian Americans, but it's fundamentally true for like all people of color in America, which is essentially that there is a white nationalist element to the MAGA movement and you know, like you're just not gonna be welcome in all corners. Like, I just think people have to kind of put themselves in pretzels if they think that MAGA voters who are, you know, basically upset that the country is not more white are gonna be happy with the Indians. Like, I'm not. Sorry. It's like we're still brown to em. I don't know what to tell ya. You know, it's just a different shade then the Latinos, but we're all brown. It's like that's how it's going for you.

[Tim Miller]

That's great. Okay, we'll see if you do as good on the other two topics. Do you have any hot takes? I interviewed former vice president on her book tour. Do you have any hot takes on the Kamala book and book tour that you want to share?

[Neera Tanden]

I love Kamala. I don't know what to say. I love Kamala. I'm just going to say.

I mean she's super fun, interesting.

Awesome person. I think it's important for her in the next phase to pick some fights. I understand she wanted to write her book, but you Know, like, I think over the next three years, people are. Everyone's looking for fighters. And she's a good fighter, so I hope she will fight a little bit more.

[Tim Miller]

You know, who's a fighter near you? And I was saying, I have to tell you this, I'm anonymizing this, but you know, every once in a while people criticize you. Do you know that? Do people criticize you from time to time? Never. Do you see that on the Internet? I had somebody.

[Neera Tanden]

I've never heard that.

[Tim Miller]

I had somebody criticize you to me recently. And I was like, here's the thing. Neera has been fucking in the fight since 2015 every day. You might not like every choice, but like, you could have after Hillary lost, you could have went and whatever. Gone to work for sis.

[Neera Tanden]

I could have eaten bon buns.

[Tim Miller]

You could have gone to work for sis.

[Neera Tanden]

I wish I was eating bon buns. Here I am fighting.

[Tim Miller]

Where'd Jay Carney go? Amazon. That's a great job. He seems to be having a good life. I don't know, I haven't checked in with him. But you didn't do that. You've been in there in the. In the grind. And I appreciate you for that. Final topic. You travel a lot. We all do. We have a Secretary of Transportation that has had some interesting. God, first he admonished us all that we must wear suits and dress up again for travel. Okay. And if we want to have the golden age of America, it's up to us to look nice. That was, that. That was like two weeks ago. He says that in an interview. I feel like we had a little bit of a mixed message though yesterday because they're at Reagan Airport and they have a pull up bar and they're telling us now we're gonna work out at the airports. That was a little confusing to me. And he was on with some guy, I don't know, some influencer, right wing guy. And they're on Maria Bart Romo this morning. And to Maria's credit, this tension also. She noticed this as well. I'm like, how are we supposed to deal with this? And I'd like to hear their answer. I wanna commend Secretary Duffy and Secretary Kennedy for this initiative. You think the goal here is not for people to get sweaty in airports?

[Neera Tanden]

Nobody wants to be sitting next to.

[Tim Miller]

Somebody smelly on an airplane. But no sweating, Brian. But you know, even micro workouts are valuable for humans. What do you think? Do you think that's gonna be the turnaround for our golden age micro Workouts at Reagan. You just go there. Two pull ups real fast, no sweating. Making America healthy again. Hashtag.

[Neera Tanden]

Okay, I just have to say I had, like, a bout of unimaginable rage about this, like, wearing this suit thing. Okay, thank you. I'm just gonna confess. I wear sweatpants on planes, all right? I also. I wear socks and shoes. I know people are upset about the open feet. I don't do that. But I wear sweatpants. And what I want to say to Secretary Duffy is let's not make air travel like a hellhole, okay? It's not fun to go on planes all the time. So, like, I'm going to wear my sweatpants if you're gonna make it uncomfortable, all right? You do a little bit more of your job to make it a lot easier for people to be on planes. Maybe the seats could be a little wider. You know, people could be a little bit more comfortable. But if you're gonna stick people in these small seats and pack us in, then we're not gonna wear suits. We're gonna wear sweatpants and sweatshirts. Okay? So, like, you do your job and make travel better, and then maybe everyone else will do their job, but don't make us wear suits while you make our lives miserable. That was what I had to say.

[Tim Miller]

I knew you'd have something on that. We didn't prep this. I was just like, you know, I'm sure Neera's gonna have something on this one. And so I went in blind, and you exceeded all my expectations.

[Neera Tanden]

Let's just hope I'm not fired at the end of this whole podcast here.

[Tim Miller]

Who would fire you? You're the president and CEO, as much as I can tell.

[Neera Tanden]

Oh, yes, good point.

[Tim Miller]

Is there a secret cabal we need to know about? Okay, we've been hearing about that QAnon. There's. What was it called where Hillary was taking the face of the babies, the skin off their face.

[Neera Tanden]

Pizza Gate.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, but she was also doing. Oh, there was a word for it. I used to know this word.

[Neera Tanden]

Oh, I can't even remember.

[Tim Miller]

A lot of things have happened in the last 10 years. Anyway, okay, so you're in charge, so I think you're fine, right? We're good. Yeah.

[Neera Tanden]

And you gotta tell that person who's a little critical to get their butt in the ring, too.

[Tim Miller]

I did. You better believe. Neera. You better believe that. I did. Okay. I got hot. We got a little hot. On your behalf, thank you. Anytime, girl. Everybody. Appreciate you. Neera Tanden, center of American Progress. Go check out The Trump Take. What is it called? The Trump Takes. Trump's Take.

[Neera Tanden]

Trump's Take.

[Tim Miller]

Trump's Take. Bulwark Takes is a different podcast which you should try to. Trump's Take is the center for American Progress. They're doing great work and we'll be seeing you soon. All right. Merry Christmas. All right.

[Neera Tanden]

Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Do we still say Merry Christmas?

[Tim Miller]

We do. Bye, everybody. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Peace. Oh, when it's cold in the street lamps they seem an awful lot like spotlights? Yeah, sometimes charlamagne gets uptight Running numbers between bars Running girls between the cars and sometimes charlamagne feels alright.

Alright.

All right.

Charmin and ice. Just like a lover. Our last winner. There was weather and his eyes the ice right over. Hey, Casanova's in the corner and he's asking for a dance. These shooters driving around and coming down trying to all come up with an entrance ramp. And tramps like us and we like tramps. Yeah, Salamay's got something in a sweat town.

Yeah. Holly was supposed to be a cct, but she was walking around on shady streets.

She was looking around for something. She could take them to a party.

It's not like she's enslaved. It's more like she's enthralled. She don't need it, but she likes it. Yeah, so she always makes that call. At first it makes her feel tall and then it makes her feel small. And it's all a sweet fleeting feeling. We did the fence called stealing, the dancing on the ceiling, and your semi weak dad Charlemagne's got something in his squat pants.

The Borg podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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