The Bulwark Podcast: Nicholas Kristof – "Gratuitous Cruelty"
Release Date: June 27, 2025
Introduction
In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages with New York Times columnist and advocate Nicholas Kristof to discuss the dire consequences of recent USAID cuts. The conversation delves into the human impact of reduced international aid, critiques governmental policies, and highlights specific cases that illustrate the broader issues at stake.
Impact of USAID Cuts on Africa
Kristof's Investigation in South Sudan and West Africa
Nicholas Kristof recounts his investigative trips to South Sudan and West Africa to assess the fallout from significant USAID budget reductions. He emphasizes the immediate and tragic human costs resulting from these cuts.
“Within an hour of beginning my reporting in South Sudan, I had the names of a bunch of people who had died, including kids.”
[03:03] Nicholas Kristof
Kristof describes how vital programs, particularly those distributing Antiretrovirals (ARVs) for HIV, were dismantled, leading to preventable deaths among vulnerable populations.
Personal Stories Highlighting the Crisis
Kristof shares harrowing accounts of individuals affected by the aid cuts:
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Evan Anzo: A young boy who lost access to life-saving ARVs due to program shutdowns.
“Evan Anzo was a little boy who was an AIDS orphan... And the only way he could access ARVs was through a social worker who was paid by this program PEPFAR... he dies.”
[03:03] Nicholas Kristof -
Peter Dande and Echol Ding: Both children succumbed to malaria and malnutrition, respectively, illustrating the widespread impact of reduced healthcare services.
“Kids dying unnecessarily of really simple things, of malaria, of diarrhea, and indeed of HIV related infections, of malnutrition.”
[04:22] Nicholas Kristof
Critique of Government Policies and Rubio's Response
Response to Marco Rubio's Accusations
Kristof addresses Senator Marco Rubio's claims that his reporting on USAID cuts was misleading, highlighting the tangible evidence of increased mortality rates following aid reductions.
“I see Secretary Rubio as a good man doing bad things.”
[02:04] Nicholas Kristof
He criticizes Rubio's reluctance to engage directly, suggesting that firsthand experience would reveal the severity of the situation.
“I just wish that Marco Rubio instead of denouncing my reporting would come with me on a trip and I'd be delighted to show him some of these kids who were starving.”
[05:23] Nicholas Kristof
Inefficiency and Mismanagement of Aid
Kristof discusses the bureaucratic inefficiencies within USAID and the resultant wastage of resources intended for humanitarian purposes.
“The State Department has one estimate that the cost of shutting down USAID was $6 billion. Instead of saving money, they've spent $6 billion killing a lot of kids.”
[11:22] Nicholas Kristof
Case Studies: Plumpy Nut and Merck's River Blindness Medicines
Plumpy Nut: A Missed Opportunity
Kristof highlights the squandered investment in Plumpy Nut, a life-saving peanut paste for malnourished children.
“The US taxpayers have already purchased 185,000 boxes of Plumpy Nut that taxpayers own that is sitting in a warehouse in Rhode Island gathering dust.”
[14:35] Nicholas Kristof
He underscores the heartbreaking reality that these pre-funded supplies remain unused, exacerbating malnutrition crises.
Merck's Ivermectin for River Blindness
Kristof sheds light on Merck’s donated Ivermectin, crucial for combating river blindness, which remains underutilized due to administrative failures.
“E every dollar in Mass Drug Administration leverages $26 in donated drugs. It's there, but the US canceled the drug Administration. And so it's sitting there gathering dust.”
[16:20] Nicholas Kristof
He explains the devastating effects of river blindness and the potential lives saved if these medications were adequately distributed.
Recommendations and Call to Action
Supporting Effective Aid Organizations
Kristof recommends specific organizations that are effectively addressing these humanitarian issues:
- Helen Keller International: Focuses on blindness and nutrition.
- Deworm the World: Efficiently tackles parasitic infections in children.
- Edicia Nutrition & Manna Nutrition: Producers of Plumpy Nut ready for distribution.
“One is Helen Keller International, which does a lot of work on blindness and nutrition... and either Edicia or Manna Nutrition for this peanut paste.”
[44:03] Nicholas Kristof
Kristof urges listeners to contribute to these organizations to make a tangible difference.
Conclusion
Nicholas Kristof’s enlightening discussion on The Bulwark Podcast highlights the dire consequences of policy decisions that cut essential aid. His firsthand accounts and data-driven analysis underscore the urgent need for informed and compassionate governmental action to prevent further loss of life and suffering in vulnerable regions.
Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductory segments, and outros, focusing solely on the substantive discussions between Tim Miller and his guests.