The Bulwark Podcast: S2 Ep1001 - Bill Kristol: Give Back the Statue of Liberty

Release Date: March 17, 2025

Hosts: Tim Miller and Bill Kristol

Overview: In this landmark 1001st episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a deep and impassioned conversation with political commentator Bill Kristol. The discussion centers on the alarming political developments under the Trump administration, particularly focusing on the erosion of democratic norms, aggressive immigration policies, and the Democratic Party's response—or lack thereof—to these challenges. The episode delves into specific instances of governmental overreach, the politicization of the Justice Department, and the broader implications for American democracy.

1. Biden's Pardons and Trump's Conspiracy Theories

Tim Miller (00:39):

"Trump believed that Biden's preemptive pardons of his political foes, particularly the members of the House January 6th Committee, are all caps, void, vacant, and of no further force or effect because they were signed with an auto pen."

Discussion Highlights:

• Tim Miller introduces a conspiracy theory propagated by Trump supporters claiming that President Biden's pardons for political adversaries are invalid due to being signed with an "auto pen."
• Bill Kristol dismisses the theory as "super ridiculous" (01:46), emphasizing that one president cannot simply void another's pardons without significant constitutional implications.
• The conversation underscores the blending of "ridiculous" claims with fascistic undertones in Trump's narratives, highlighting the risks to democratic institutions.

2. Persecution of January 6th Committee Members and Political Foes

Bill Kristol (02:49):

"It really rankles him that he can't use the whole Justice Department and the authorities of the federal government to go after Liz Cheney and Betty Thompson."

Discussion Highlights:

• Kristol elaborates on Trump's aggressive stance against members of the January 6th Committee, noting the attempt to leverage federal institutions for political vendettas.
• The lack of pretense or rationalization marks a departure from historical norms where administrations masked political targeting with legal justifications.
• Miller and Kristol express deep concern over the undermining of the rule of law and constitutional principles.

3. Politicization of the Justice Department

Tim Miller (05:57):

"Pam Bondi was speaking at the DOJ, ... 'We all work for the greatest president in the history of our country.'"

Discussion Highlights:

• The episode highlights Attorney General Pam Bondi's public declarations praising President Trump and indicating her work is directed by him.
• Kristol criticizes this blatant politicization, stating that while policy directives are expected, criminal prosecutions should remain independent (10:39).
• The conversation emphasizes the erosion of the thin line that historically separated the DOJ from the White House, leading to abuses of power.

4. Trump Administration's Immigration Policies and the Alien Enemies Act

Bill Kristol (15:00):

"The invocation of this act is nuts... they had to invent a fake war with this Venezuelan gang to justify this."

Discussion Highlights:

• Kristol critiques the Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act, originally intended for wartime scenarios, to expedite deportations without due process.
• The hosts discuss harrowing cases of individuals being detained and deported under dubious circumstances, illustrating systemic cruelty and authoritarian tactics.
• Specific instances include:
  • Camila Munoz (22:12): A physician and professor sent to a harsh penal colony in El Salvador despite her legitimate asylum claims.
  • Canadian Actress and Peruvian Couple: Both faced detention and deportation for minor visa issues, highlighting the administration's overreach.

Tim Miller (23:20):

"We're sending innocent people to this fucking hellscape... it's just appalling."

5. Democratic Party's Response and Leadership Challenges

Bill Kristol (29:52):

"If the Democrats don't pick the overall fight on Trump's immigration policy as being inhumane, indecent and unlawful, that's just pathetic."

Discussion Highlights:

• The podcast critiques the Democratic Party's hesitancy to confront the Trump administration's inhumane immigration policies, with Kristol advocating for a more aggressive and unified response.
• Miller and Kristol express frustration over internal debates within the Democratic ranks about "picking battles," emphasizing the moral imperative to oppose authoritarian actions.
• The conversation extends to leadership critiques, particularly targeting Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's perceived inaction and detachment from pressing issues.

Tim Miller (37:08):

"Chuck Schumer has actually canceled the book tour... Chuck Schumer, no book tour."

6. Economic Commentary and Treasury Secretary Scott Besant

Bill Kristol (45:27):

"If the market's down 10%, it's down 10%. ... I don't think that the Dow giving off three or four points during the 2006 run up would have done anything to prevent the mortgage crisis."

Discussion Highlights:

• The hosts briefly touch upon Treasury Secretary Scott Besant's remarks dismissing concerns about market downturns, labeling corrections as "healthy" but highlighting the disconnect between economic rhetoric and on-the-ground realities.
• Kristol criticizes Besant for defending tariffs and exhibiting a lack of understanding of the causes behind the 2007-08 economic crisis, further illustrating the administration's dubious economic strategies.

7. Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Tim Miller (48:58):

"If there was..., ... we're sending some fucking gang members."

Discussion Highlights:

• Miller emphasizes the moral failure of current policies, questioning the very essence of American identity as a land of refuge and opportunity.
• The episode concludes with a passionate plea for leadership within the Democratic Party to rise above and confront the authoritarian tendencies of the Trump administration head-on.

Bill Kristol (44:14):

"Chris Murphy should announce he's challenging him... we need to be making our case to the American people a little more aggressively here."

Conclusion: This episode of The Bulwark Podcast serves as a fervent critique of the Trump administration's departure from democratic norms, particularly in the realms of pardons, justice administration, and immigration policies. Tim Miller and Bill Kristol advocate for a more unified and assertive Democratic response to safeguard liberal democracy and uphold America's foundational values. Through detailed analysis and impassioned discourse, the podcast underscores the urgent need for political leadership that resists authoritarian impulses and champions human dignity.

Note: The episode includes brief sponsor advertisements and musical segments which have been omitted from this summary to focus solely on the substantive discussions.