The Bulwark Podcast: Season 2, Episode 1006 – "Live from Phoenix"

Release Date: March 24, 2025

Hosts: Tim Miller, Bill Kristol, Lindsey Teslowski, Sam Stein
Description: In this milestone episode, hosted live from Phoenix, Arizona, Tim Miller and his guests delve into critical political issues facing the United States. From the controversial deportation of Venezuelans to San Salvador to the troubling capitulation of law firms under the Trump administration, the discussion offers a thorough analysis of events shaping the current political landscape.

1. Controversial Deportations to San Salvador

The episode opens with a heated discussion between Tim Miller and Bill Kristol regarding a revealing Time magazine article by Philip Holzinger. The piece exposes the deplorable conditions under which Venezuelan immigrants are being deported to San Salvador without due process.

Key Highlights:

• Case of Andree: Lindsey Teslowski introduces the poignant case of Andree, a gay Venezuelan barber and makeup artist who has been detained and sent to a notorious Salvadoran prison.

  "This is our client Andree, who's been disappeared by the Trump administration. Tonight, he's in a Salvadoran prison notorious for human rights violations." ([01:29])

• Lack of Due Process: Kristol emphasizes the absence of proper legal procedures in these deportations, raising concerns about the potential for wrongful imprisonments.

  "He is being tortured and was rightfully fleeing from communism... sending him without any due process is horrendous." ([01:29])

• Call to Action: The hosts urge listeners to contact their senators to demand transparency and halt these unjust deportations.

  "Call your senators today. It will make a difference. It will matter." ([05:24])

2. Marco Rubio's Role in Deportations

The conversation shifts to Marco Rubio's involvement as the primary figure overseeing these deportations. Kristol critiques Rubio's handling and Trump's delegation of responsibility.

Key Highlights:

• Rubio's Accountability: Kristol criticizes Rubio for deflecting responsibility, highlighting Trump's passing of the Alien Enemies Act onto him.

  "Trump has dumped this on Marco. Marco should have to speak to it. We cannot disappear people on the word of Tom Homan and Marco Rubio." ([05:25])

• Democratic Indifference: There's a broader critique of Democratic politicians who are hesitant to challenge immigration policies, fearing political repercussions.

  "Some Democratic politicians are scared to speak out about immigration because they think it's a loser. And I think that's wrong." ([05:25])

3. Capitulation of Law Firms Under Trump Pressure

The episode delves into how prominent law firms like Covington & Burling, Perkins Coie, and Paul Weiss are succumbing to pressure from the Trump administration, jeopardizing their integrity and operational capacity.

Key Highlights:

• Targeting Law Firms: Lindsey discusses how these firms are being blacklisted, affecting their ability to serve clients and maintain government contracts.

  "Trump is going after Covington, stripped security clearances, tried to really ruin their business." ([32:38])

• Impact on Pro Bono Work: The suppression of pro bono services undermines civil rights and legal defenses for marginalized groups.

  "If you're a business and you hire a law firm, you might have business with the federal government... but now there's a huge like, a mark of Cain on your forehead if you've hired Covington." ([32:38])

• Historical Context: Sam Stein reflects on the potential long-term implications, suggesting this could mark a significant moment in the erosion of institutional integrity.

  "This is a moment historians will look back on... the decline into authoritarianism in society as a whole." ([36:55])

4. Negotiations with Russia and Foreign Policy Failures

Tim Miller and his guests critique the current state of U.S. negotiations with Russia, highlighting the ineffective and disingenuous tactics employed by key negotiators like Steve Witkoff.

Key Highlights:

• Ineffective Negotiation Tactics: Lindsey criticizes Witkoff's approach, portraying him as underprepared and overly sympathetic to Russian agendas.

  "He's our point man for negotiations with Qatar and Hamas and Israel... sucking off the guy that's funding Hamas." ([22:29])

• Putin's Manipulation: The hosts discuss how President Putin is undermining U.S. negotiating power by humiliating Trump and draining resources.

  "He's speaking at a conference... and then pushes Trump to wait on the phone for an hour, humiliating him." ([21:12])

• Departure from Liberal International Order: Sam Stein laments the U.S.'s retreat from sustaining the liberal international order, drawing parallels to historical foreign policy missteps.

  "Abandoning Ukraine is a terrible policy matter... undermining 80 years of foreign policy." ([21:12])

5. The Rise of Authoritarianism Within Society and Institutions

The discussion broadens to encompass the societal and institutional shifts toward authoritarianism, exacerbated by the Trump administration's actions and the resultant fear-driven compliance.

Key Highlights:

• Erosion of Democratic Values: Sam Stein expresses concern over the diminishing guardrails within government institutions, leading to unchecked authoritarian practices.

  "The authoritarianism is going beyond within the government to authoritarianism in society as a whole." ([32:38])

• Public Reaction and Indifference: Despite the severity of the actions, there's a troubling lack of widespread outrage, partially attributed to political strategizing and fear of backlash.

  "They're scared to speak out... they think people don't care, but they do." ([05:25])

6. Comparisons to Historical and International Contexts

The hosts draw comparisons between current events and historical instances of governmental overreach, emphasizing the importance of vigilance and resistance.

Key Highlights:

• "Useful Idiots" Reference: Sam Stein references Mona Charon's work on "Useful Idiots" to illustrate how uncritical support can aid authoritarian regimes.

  "Mona's still conservative... this is a more idiotic form of useful idiocy." ([28:00])

• European Responses to Putin: There's admiration for European leaders' stance against Putin, contrasted with perceived weaknesses in U.S. leadership.

  "The Europeans have done pretty well... they know the truth about Putin invading Ukraine." ([28:11])

7. Final Thoughts and Call to Action

In closing, the hosts reiterate the need for collective courage and active resistance against governmental abuses, urging listeners to remain vigilant and proactive.

Key Highlights:

• Courage is Contagious: Lindsey emphasizes that fighting on all fronts strengthens the overall resistance against authoritarianism.

  "Courage is contagious and this is why it's worth fighting Trump on every ground right now." ([37:57])

• Praise for Judicial Fairness: Sam Stein commends Judge Bostad for his courageous and fair handling of deportation cases, highlighting the importance of judicial oversight.

  "Judge Bostad has really been courageous and hardworking and impressive." ([38:18])

Notable Quotes:

• "We cannot disappear people on the word of Tom Homan and Marco Rubio." – Bill Kristol ([05:25])

• "This is our client Andree, who's been disappeared by the Trump administration. Tonight, he's in a Salvadoran prison notorious for human rights violations." – Lindsey Teslowski ([01:29])

• "The authoritarianism is going beyond within the government to authoritarianism in society as a whole." – Sam Stein ([32:38])

• "Courage is contagious and this is why it's worth fighting Trump on every ground right now." – Lindsey Teslowski ([37:57])

Conclusion:

In this comprehensive episode, Tim Miller and his guests shed light on urgent political issues threatening democratic values and human rights. From the unlawful deportations of vulnerable immigrants to the systemic erosion of institutional integrity, the discussion underscores the necessity for informed activism and unwavering resistance. Listeners are encouraged to take tangible actions, such as contacting their senators, to uphold justice and prevent further governmental overreach.

For more insightful analysis and discussions, subscribe to The Bulwark Podcast and join the Never Trump movement in defending liberal democracy.