The Bulwark Podcast – Season 2, Episode 1008: "Radioactively Stupid"

Release Date: March 26, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Host: Tim Miller
• Guests:
  • Michael Weiss – Editor of The Insider, contributing editor to New Lions magazine, former CNN investigative reporter
  • Ben Smith – Co-founder and Editor-in-Chief of Semaphore, Co-host of the Mixed Signals podcast
  • Annie Carney – Congressional Correspondent for The New York Times, Co-author of Madhouse: How Donald Trump, MAGA, Mean Girls, a Former Used Car Salesman, a Florida Nepo Baby, and a Man with Rats in His Walls Broke Congress

1. Leaked White House Texts: War Plans or Hoax?

[00:00 - 02:20]

Discussion Highlights:

• Michael Weiss introduces the topic of leaked White House text messages, suggesting they reveal genuine war plans despite the administration's denial.
• Tim Miller questions the authenticity of the White House's claim that the texts are not war plans, highlighting inconsistencies in the administration's stance.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Weiss [00:55]:
  “There’s no way that this was unclassified data... even more critical than the attack plans themselves is the policy discussion... if you’re a foreign adversary, you absolutely want to know what the back and forth is amongst Trump’s national security team.”

• Tim Miller [02:20]:
  “Imagine if you know, somebody involved in the actual execution of the mission... decides to text the Atlantic the exact timing of when we’re gonna bomb Yemen... What is Pete Hegseth saying about this person? This person is getting court.”

2. Accusations Against Jeffrey Goldberg and Media Slander

[03:19 - 10:22]

Discussion Highlights:

• Michael Weiss delves into Michael Waltz’s accusations against journalist Jeffrey Goldberg, alleging espionage.
• The conversation examines the implications of such accusations on media credibility and national security.
• Michael Weiss emphasizes the authenticity of the leaked communications, arguing against the administration's denial.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Weiss [04:19]:
  “There is no question mark my mind now that people ought to be fired or ought to resign. But they’re not going to, right? Because that’s just handing a gift to the media and the big bad wolf, Jeffrey Goldberg...”

• Ben Smith [05:00]:
  “How did a Trump-hating Editor of the Atlantic end up on your signal chat?”

• Annie Carney [05:04]:
  “Whether he did it deliberately or... something... is something we’re trying to figure.”

3. Security Lapses and Use of Signal for National Security Communications

[10:22 - 18:45]

Discussion Highlights:

• Michael Weiss critiques the improper use of Signal for sensitive national security communications, highlighting vulnerabilities.
• The role of Tulsi Gabbard and Steve Witkoff is examined, suggesting potential foreign intelligence compromises.
• Tim Miller observes the incompetence and lack of proper security protocols among top officials.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Weiss [08:20]:
  “This is somebody who has traveled to the Vatican... has connections with Russian intelligence assets... It's radioactively stupid.”

• Tim Miller [11:01]:
  “She looked nervous to me, and she was very uncomfortable... clearly the Director of National Intelligence was on her personal phone also overseas.”

4. Media Transformation in the Trump Era: From Traditional to Hyper-Partisan

[18:45 - 43:52]

Discussion Highlights:

• Ben Smith and Tim Miller discuss the evolution of media in the Trump era, emphasizing the shift from traditional outlets to hyper-partisan digital platforms.
• The challenges faced by mainstream media in retaining credibility and control over information.
• Ben Smith reflects on the necessity for media to adapt to a landscape dominated by digital and partisan outlets, comparing it to the rise of Breitbart under Steve Bannon.

Notable Quotes:

• Ben Smith [34:26]:
  “There is really... the conflict between the Trump and the White House press corps... it's very important that the press sort of retain prerogatives and not hand control of facts over to people in power.”

• Tim Miller [36:08]:
  “It's a big warning sign for the left right now... there's now emerging kind of left-wing media ecosystem where you also can do pretty well by not telling the truth.”

• Ben Smith [43:03]:
  “There was a belief among Democrats that the New York Times was Democrats’ partisan outlet... now there's a sense on the left that we need hyper-partisan shows that create a bubble like the right has.”

5. Congressional Dynamics Under Trump: Loyalty and Power Consolidation

[43:51 - 57:41]

Discussion Highlights:

• Annie Carney provides insights into the internal struggles within Congress, particularly how Trump’s dominance has fractured traditional bipartisan efforts.
• The unification of Republicans under Trump’s influence, leading to diminished independent legislative action.
• Examination of Democratic leadership’s attempts to navigate the fractured political landscape, with Annie Carney highlighting Chuck Schumer’s perspective on Trump’s impact.

Notable Quotes:

• Annie Carney [44:29]:
  “The Nepo baby is Gaetz... Matt Gaetz’s father was a powerful Florida state senator.”

• Annie Carney [47:37]:
  “Most of those people left and those who stayed have made the decision that they want to rise and have power in this tribal party... going all in with Trump.”

• Nancy Mace [52:55]:
  “Trump is uniting them... His power over the party is near total. There's no room to end.”

• Nancy Mace [55:21]:
  “They've just ceded their power completely to the White House... the Congress is part of this story.”

6. Concluding Remarks: The Fragility of Current Political Structures

[57:38 - 60:06]

Discussion Highlights:

• Tim Miller reflects on the precarious state of Congress and the overarching control exerted by Trump.
• Annie Carney emphasizes the complete power transfer to the White House, critiquing the lack of legislative action and accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller [54:39]:
  “Well, it's out of touch with reality... most Democrats and voters have come around to the idea that MAGA is bigger than Trump. There's no reverting. There's really no evidence that anything is going back.”

• Nancy Mace [57:15]:
  “Trump is holding it together and no one wants to cross him... They've just ceded their power completely to the White House.”

Key Takeaways:

• National Security Concerns: The episode delves into the potential implications of leaked White House communications, emphasizing the risks of policy discussions falling into foreign adversaries' hands.

• Media Credibility Under Attack: The discussion highlights the increasing challenges faced by traditional media outlets in maintaining credibility amidst heightened partisan attacks and the rise of hyper-partisan digital platforms.

• Congressional Fragmentation: Insights into how Trump’s influence has led to a consolidation of power within the Republican Party, undermining traditional bipartisan legislative processes and weakening congressional oversight.

• Evolving Media Landscape: The shift from established media hierarchies to a more fragmented, digital-first approach, with both the right and left developing their own hyper-partisan outlets, poses significant challenges for balanced journalism and public discourse.

• Political Strategy and Loyalty: The episode underscores the strategic maneuvers within Congress to align with Trump’s agenda, often at the expense of independent policymaking and accountability, leading to a fragile and polarized legislative environment.

Conclusion: In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, Tim Miller and his guests dissect the intricate web of national security lapses, media transformations, and congressional dynamics under Trump’s influence. Through detailed analysis and expert insights, they paint a picture of a political landscape fraught with vulnerabilities, partisanship, and shifting power structures, urging listeners to critically evaluate the forces shaping contemporary American politics.