The Bulwark Podcast: S2 Ep1009 - Bill Kristol: Stiffen Your Spines, Democrats
Release Date: March 31, 2025

Introduction

In this milestone 1009th episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a dynamic conversation with Bill Kristol, the editor-at-large of The Bulwark and author of the Morning Shots newsletter. Set against the backdrop of a brewing Louisiana thunderstorm, the discussion delves deep into the current political landscape, focusing on the challenges facing the Democratic Party and the broader implications for liberal democracy.

Donald Trump’s Possible Third Term Ambitions

Key Points:

• Trump's Speculations on a Third Term: The conversation kicks off with Tim Miller addressing Donald Trump's recent comments about potentially running for a third term. Trump suggested options like running as Vice President and then having the current president resign, a move both legally dubious and constitutionally questionable.

• Lack of Pushback Within the GOP: Kristol highlights the surprising absence of significant opposition within the Republican Party regarding Trump's statements. He remarks, “...without any pushback” (00:42), emphasizing the implicit support or fear of pushing back against Trump’s ambitions.

• Constitutional Constraints: Tim Miller underscores the legal barriers to such a move, referencing the 12th and 22nd Amendments, and adds, “...this is not legal and not going to happen” (02:28).

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol: “It does show a certain lack of confidence in his vice president...” (03:10)
• Tim Miller: “...the 12th Amendment says clearly you can't be vice President if you're ineligible to be president.” (04:20)

Elon Musk’s Involvement in Wisconsin Elections

Key Points:

• Campaign Contributions: Tim Miller discusses Elon Musk's significant financial involvement in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race, contributing $20 million to a campaign that some deem crucial for shifting the state's political balance.

• Election Law Violations: Musk's distribution of $1 million checks during a speech raises questions about the legality of his actions under Wisconsin law, which prohibits offering anything of value to induce votes.

• Implications for Election Integrity: Kristol expresses concern over the apparent lack of accountability and enforcement, stating, “...the impunity is pretty astonishing” (08:26).

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol: “...this is bad, and sort of deep corruption...” (08:26)
• Tim Miller: “...this doesn't really work. I mean, it's like my friend JJ McCullough tweeted...” (06:16)

US Immigration Policies and Deportations to El Salvador

Key Points:

• Town Hall Controversy: The episode features audio from a town hall where Victoria Spartz, a Republican representative, harshly criticized deportations, referring to asylum seekers being sent to El Salvador as “kidnappings.”

• Orwellian Practices: Tim Miller and Bill Kristol discuss the troubling aspects of the government's deportation criteria, highlighting cases where individuals were deported based on superficial reasons like tattoos, which may not indicate criminal activity.

• Impact on Public Perception: Kristol remarks on the potential erosion of trust in the Constitution, suggesting that Trump’s actions could lead to the perception of the Constitution as “a bunch of advisory statements” (04:59).

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol: “...what does that even mean? There are people who hang out with people from gangs...” (17:15)
• Tim Miller: “...the other thing you have to have something slightly also equally insignificant.” (18:03)

Democrats’ Response to Immigration Issues

Key Points:

• Lack of Unified Democratic Response: Tim Miller points out the scarcity of notable Democratic statements condemning the deportations, contrasting it with Joe Rogan’s clear moral stance on the issue.

• Political Calculations and Polling: Bill Kristol attributes Democrats' silence to their fear of poll reprisals, arguing that political expediency often trumps moral clarity. He states, “...they cannot say a word, apparently, if you're an elected official without going through some filter...” (22:21).

• Comparison to Historical Events: Kristol draws parallels between the current situation and past events like Abu Ghraib, emphasizing the severity of institutional corruption and authoritarian tendencies.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol: “...this is in the middle of a war, incidentally, which were not in with Venezuela.” (23:29)
• Tim Miller: “...maybe the American people aren't that terrible. Maybe the American people have some terrible instincts...” (25:16)

Economic Implications of Trump’s Tariff Plans

Key Points:

• Market Reactions: The discussion shifts to the economic repercussions of Trump's tariff announcements, with Tim Miller citing significant downturns in major stock indices like the Nasdaq and S&P 500.

• Lack of Clarity and Consistency: Kristol criticizes the uncertainty surrounding Trump's tariff plans, noting that inconsistencies and delays can disrupt global alliances and economic stability.

• Internal White House Dynamics: The hosts speculate on the internal chaos within the Trump administration, suggesting that key figures may not fully understand Trump's economic strategies, leading to market instability.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol: “...he loves being president. It does show a certain lack of confidence in his vice president...” (03:10)
• Tim Miller: “...Goldman has rising recession concerns and Bloomberg says that it's leaving The S&P 500 index on track for its worst quarter...” (28:38)

US-European Relations and Anti-Allied Sentiments

Key Points:

• JD Vance and Pete Hegseth’s Remarks: Bill Kristol discusses JD Vance and Pete Hegseth's speeches reflecting deep-seated animosity towards European allies, particularly targeting Denmark for perceived shortcomings.

• Impact on NATO and Alliances: Kristol emphasizes the damaging effect of such rhetoric on longstanding alliances like NATO, pointing out Denmark's substantial contributions to defense spending and their support in conflicts like Afghanistan.

• European Responses: The European Union’s proactive measures in supporting Ukraine contrast sharply with the antagonistic stance of certain Trump allies, exacerbating tensions.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol: “They love bullying them, especially the little Denmark's a very small country.” (34:45)
• Tim Miller: “...they sent people to the wars. JD mentions that and kind of dismisses that also too...” (32:15)

Cultural and Historical Reflections

Key Points:

• Trump’s Executive Order on DEI in Museums: Kristol shares insights from his newsletter regarding Trump’s executive order aimed at removing Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives from institutions like the Smithsonian, framing it as an erasure of essential historical narratives.

• Comparison to Historical Monuments: The hosts reflect on the significance of memorials like the Robert Gould Shaw Memorial in Boston, contrasting them with modern attempts to whitewash or sanitize history.

• Impact on Education and Public Memory: Tim Miller and Bill Kristol express concerns about the long-term effects of such executive orders on education, historical understanding, and societal values.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Kristol: “Race turns out to be doesn't incidentally about what, 75, 80% of all the stuff they hate.” (38:49)
• Tim Miller: “...the Executive Order is going to forcibly remove some things from the museums, which is horrible.” (43:30)

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Tim Miller and Bill Kristol reaffirming their concerns about the current administration's trajectory, particularly regarding authoritarian tendencies, erosion of democratic norms, and the lack of cohesive resistance from key institutions and political parties. They emphasize the need for vigilance and a collective effort to uphold liberal democratic values against the mounting challenges posed by internal and external threats.

Final Thoughts:

• Bill Kristol: “The authoritarian offensive by Trump and his people is bad and has gone off being more aggressive than people perhaps expected.” (45:29)
• Tim Miller: “...we'll explore it more next week. Thank you, Bill, as always.” (47:03)

Notable Moments with Timestamps

• [00:08] Tim Miller introduces Bill Kristol and sets the thematic backdrop with the looming political "storm."
• [02:28] Discussion on Trump’s third-term aspirations and constitutional barriers.
• [06:16] Examination of Elon Musk’s financial influence in Wisconsin elections.
• [17:15] Analysis of flawed immigration deportation practices based on superficial criteria.
• [22:21] Debate on Democrats’ lack of response to immigration issues compared to Joe Rogan.
• [28:38] Insights into the economic fallout from Trump’s tariff declarations.
• [34:45] Critique of anti-European sentiments among Trump allies.
• [38:49] Reflection on Trump’s DEI executive order and its historical implications.
• [43:30] Final thoughts on the episode’s key issues and upcoming discussions.

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a comprehensive and incisive analysis of the current political climate, highlighting the internal fractures within the Republican Party, the strategies and challenges facing Democrats, and the broader implications for American democracy. Through engaging dialogue and critical insights, Tim Miller and Bill Kristol provide listeners with a deep understanding of the forces shaping today's political landscape.

Disclaimer: This summary is based on a provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and themes of the podcast episode.