The Bulwark Podcast: S2 Ep1009 - "Daddy? No, Manny Trump"

Release Date: March 28, 2025

Hosts: Tim Miller and Amanda Carpenter

Overview: In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a candid and in-depth discussion with Amanda Carpenter, a writer and editor at Protect Democracy. They delve into pressing issues threatening liberal democracy, including authoritarian actions by the current administration, the role of law firms, the influence of Elon Musk, and the critical need for collective action. The conversation is peppered with insightful analysis, notable quotes, and a touch of humor to navigate the complexities of the political landscape.

1. Introduction and Clarifications

Tim Miller opens the episode by addressing a misunderstanding from a previous conversation regarding the Hands Off America rallies scheduled for April 5th.

[00:38] Tim Miller: "I want to make sure we'll put a link to the list of the gatherings in the show notes. If you feel called to go, I encourage you to do so. I hope to see a lot of people out on April 5th."

He emphasizes that the mention of these rallies was not dismissive but rather an encouragement for collective action amidst a perceived emotional disconnect in the current sociopolitical climate.

Amanda Carpenter responds by expressing the emotional toll of recent events but remains committed to the discussion.

[02:04] Amanda Carpenter: "If there's anybody to get into it with, I'm happy to be here with you for sure."

2. Current Threats to Democracy

Miller and Carpenter discuss the alarming trend of individuals being detained without due process, highlighting the erosion of fundamental American rights.

[03:53] Amanda Carpenter: "The most urgent thing that is in your face on tape. Easiest to see and understand are the people being nabbed out the streets without any due process."

They scrutinize the government's ambiguous stance on these detentions, questioning whether they stem from terrorism threats or suppression of dissent.

[07:12] Tim Miller: "Perhaps they could serve them in prisons of El Salvador, which have become so recently famous for such lovely conditions."

3. Executive Orders Against Organizations

The conversation shifts to recent Executive Orders targeting prestigious institutions like the Smithsonian and the National Zoo for purportedly advancing "divisive narratives" and "improper ideology."

[14:43] Tim Miller: "Trump is targeting the Smithsonian and the zoo for programs that advance divisive narratives and improper ideology."

Carpenter underscores the absurdity and authoritarian nature of these orders, questioning the specific grievances against such institutions.

[16:47] Amanda Carpenter: "Shroud, Mask it? Like, oh, what are we doing?"

4. Law Firms' Responses

The duo explores how major law firms like Perkins Coie and Wilmer Hale are navigating the current political turbulence, with some pushing back against Executive Orders while others comply.

[17:08] Amanda Carpenter: "We have Perkins Coie fighting back. They're one of the good ones right now."

Carpenter highlights instances where law firms have received support from clients for standing up against authoritarian measures.

[19:36] Tim Miller: "They are the biggest threats. And we do need everyone to stick together on this."

5. Elon Musk and Government Actions

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Elon Musk's strained relationship with the government, particularly concerning protests against Tesla and the use of AI in targeting individuals.

[29:27] Amanda Carpenter: "There's been plenty of work, lots of good smart people who have proposed plans to systematically cut the government... but they just said we're gonna come up with our little Doge kids and do whatever we want."

Miller expresses concern over governmental overreach and the potential misuse of AI in enforcing policies, exacerbating fears of an authoritarian state.

[11:04] Amanda Carpenter: "She is an easy person to pick up off the street... they're gonna go after easy targets they are."

6. Collective Action and Response

Emphasizing the necessity of solidarity, Miller and Carpenter discuss strategies for resisting authoritarian measures. They advocate for collective action as a means to counteract governmental abuses and to protect democratic principles.

[50:29] Tim Miller: "You have to really like go to the mat on this kind of stuff."

Carpenter concurs, stressing the importance of community and joint efforts in facing these challenges.

[51:40] Tim Miller: "Make them come after everybody... they're testing... they have less willing to put themselves out there."

7. Election Discussions

The hosts analyze recent and upcoming elections, specifically focusing on the Wisconsin Supreme Court race and a crucial House race in Florida's 6th district. They discuss how these elections serve as barometers for the current political climate and the effectiveness of the administration's strategies.

[56:46] Tim Miller: "The Wisconsin race is really going to be a referendum on Elon Musk's influence, how that plays on the ground."

Carpenter highlights the potential impact of these races on Republican strategies and the broader political landscape.

[58:38] Amanda Carpenter: "This is like, how can you dismiss something that's written like that given the track record..."

8. Case Study: Elise Stefanik

A detailed examination of Elise Stefanik's political trajectory illustrates the personal costs of aligning closely with the administration. Miller recounts Stefanik's shift from a critical stance against Trump to securing a favored position, only to face setbacks due to narrow majority margins and unfavorable election outcomes.

[54:29] Tim Miller: "Elise Stefanik... has to go back to Congress. She can't be the United Nations ambassador."

Carpenter reflects on the implications of her experience as indicative of broader trends within the Republican Party.

[57:05] Amanda Carpenter: "She's happy to do this for the president that she loves so much... She's back. Tough titties. Sorry, Elise."

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Miller and Carpenter discuss the looming economic uncertainties and the precarious state of the administration's policies. They reiterate the importance of vigilance, collective resistance, and strategic action to safeguard democracy.

[61:05] Amanda Carpenter: "Put in the work now and then rest up, be ready to go the distance."

Miller concludes with a call to action, urging listeners to stay informed and engaged.

[61:28] Tim Miller: "All right, everybody, take care of yourself... We'll be back here Monday with Bill Crystal. We'll see you all then. Peace."

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller ([00:38]): "I hope to see a lot of people out on April 5th."

• Amanda Carpenter ([03:53]): "People being nabbed out the streets without any due process."

• Tim Miller ([07:12]): "Perhaps they could serve them in prisons of El Salvador."

• Amanda Carpenter ([14:43]): "Wolf pandas, wolf bandas."

• Tim Miller ([29:27]): "The whole thing is preposterous."

• Amanda Carpenter ([50:29]): "We have to fight now to survive later."

• Tim Miller ([54:57]): "Elise Stefanik... she's back. Tough titties. Sorry, Elise."

Conclusion: In this episode, Tim Miller and Amanda Carpenter provide a compelling analysis of the current threats to liberal democracy, scrutinizing governmental overreach, the role of influential entities like law firms and Elon Musk, and the critical need for collective resistance. Their conversation underscores the fragility of democratic institutions and the imperative for informed and united action to preserve democratic values.