The Bulwark Podcast Episode: S2 Ep1017: Catherine Rampell: Trump's Tariffmageddon
Release Date: April 9, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guests: Katherine Rampell (Washington Post Columnist), Congressman Jason Crow (Colorado)

Introduction

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a compelling discussion with Washington Post columnist Katherine Rampell about the economic ramifications of former President Donald Trump's aggressive tariff policies. Later, the podcast features a conversation with Democratic Congressman Jason Crow from Colorado's 6th district, delving into Trump's foreign policy and its impact on American governance and international relations.

Trump's Tariff Policies and Economic Consequences

Katherine Rampell begins by addressing the dire predictions associated with Trump's tariff strategies. Citing concerns from a 2024 campaign, Rampell emphasizes that Trump's tariffs are projected to "increase inflation and invite a recession by the middle of next year" (02:15), highlighting the precarious economic trajectory under his policies.

Notable Quote:

"If he put in place his full agenda, yes, this would be devastating to the global economy."
— Katherine Rampell (01:12)

Rampell elaborates on the miscalculations by Wall Street, where experts underestimated Trump's commitment to tariffs, assuming he wouldn't follow through on his aggressive trade rhetoric. This misjudgment led to initial market optimism, which has since shifted as reality sets in.

Current Economic Indicators and Market Behavior

Tim Miller brings up an insightful observation from economist Larry Summers about unusual market patterns: "long-term interest rates are gapping up even as the stock market moves sharply downwards," indicating a "generalized aversion to US Assets in the global financial markets" (08:19). Rampell explains this anomaly by suggesting that investors are either holding onto cash due to high inflation fears or diverting investments to more stable foreign bonds, undermining the traditional trust in US Treasuries.

Notable Quote:

"US Treasuries have been considered the safest of safe assets... but how much. So that's not what we're seeing right now."
— Katherine Rampell (12:25)

Impact on Businesses and Consumers

Rampell highlights the tangible effects of Trump's tariffs on American businesses and consumers. For instance, she cites a special needs toy importer whose annual tariff bill skyrocketed from $26,000 to $346,000 overnight, forcing him to consider downsizing his business (38:33).

Notable Quote:

"This short term pain is going to end up in people losing homes, losing health care, not being able to feed their children."
— Jason Crow (66:09)

The discussion underscores the broader economic hardship faced by everyday Americans, from increased prices to job losses, contrary to the administration's claims that tariffs would bolster the economy.

Congressional Response and Potential Interventions

Tim Miller questions the likelihood of Congress stepping up to challenge Trump's tariff imperatives. Despite proposals like the debt-busting budget and resolutions to reclaim tariff negotiations, Rampell remains pessimistic about Congress's efficacy, noting that Republican leadership often avoids confronting Trump directly.

Notable Quote:

"He is the one single handedly causing this catastrophe."
— Katherine Rampell (33:04)

Rampell criticizes Senate Republicans for manipulating budgetary mathematics to legitimize Trump's tariff agenda, effectively nullifying traditional checks and balances. She describes the Republicans' approach as "Orwellian," where "two plus two equals five," allowing them to bypass fiscal accountability (48:43).

Practical Impacts and Real-World Examples

The podcast shifts focus to real-world implications, discussing how tariffs are harming American businesses. An importer sees his tariff expenses balloon, necessitating business cuts and affecting employment. Rampell emphasizes that tariffs not only hurt consumers through higher prices but also damage international relationships, as foreign partners become eager to negotiate without clear concessions from Trump.

Notable Quote:

"It's crazy and devastating stuff."
— Jason Crow (66:09)

Transition to Congressman Jason Crow's Segment

The episode transitions to a conversation with Congressman Jason Crow, who provides a personal perspective on the political shifts in Colorado's 6th district and broader national policies under Trump's administration.

Trump’s Foreign Policy and Its Impact on Alliances

Crow criticizes Trump's lack of a coherent foreign policy, describing it as a series of grievances and isolationist tendencies rather than a strategic doctrine. He laments the deteriorating relationships with NATO allies and the inconsistent stance towards global partners.

Notable Quote:

"We've grown up with America as the leader of the free world... to see decades and decades of that leadership squandered in a matter of weeks is completely astonishing."
— Jason Crow (55:32)

Crow expresses disappointment over Trump's public attacks on allies and his lukewarm approach to supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression. He highlights Trump's personal affinity for Vladimir Putin and the administration's failure to consistently support international norms and alliances.

Immigration and Due Process Concerns

The discussion shifts to Trump's harsh immigration policies, specifically the forced deportation of individuals without due process. Crow emphasizes the constitutional protections for the innocent and criticizes the administration for indiscriminate removal tactics.

Notable Quote:

"Our Constitution weighs more heavily the protection of the innocent. Our system is designed to protect the innocent, and we do that through due process."
— Jason Crow (73:19)

Crow recounts his efforts to address these issues publicly, including debates on Fox News, advocating for smart, lawful immigration policies that balance security with humanitarian considerations.

Closing Remarks

As the episode draws to a close, Tim Miller and his guests reflect on the significant challenges posed by Trump's policies, both economic and foreign. Prophetically, they discuss the urgent need for congressional intervention and the importance of rebuilding trust and functionality within American governance structures.

Notable Quote:

"What we have learned is that the people who annoy me most in this administration are... people who really know better."
— Katherine Rampell (43:14)

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a thorough examination of the detrimental effects of Trump's tariff policies on the U.S. and global economies, the faltering trust in American financial instruments, and the erosion of international alliances. Through expert analysis and firsthand accounts, Tim Miller and his guests underscore the pressing need for strategic, informed policy-making to counteract the ongoing economic and geopolitical turmoil.

Key Takeaways:

• Trump's aggressive tariffs are projected to induce inflation and a recession by mid-next year.
• Unusual market behavior indicates a loss of trust in U.S. financial stability.
• Tariffs are causing significant pain for American businesses and consumers alike.
• Congress appears unlikely to effectively counteract Trump’s tariff agenda due to internal party dynamics.
• Trump's inconsistent and adversarial foreign policy threatens longstanding international alliances.
• Forced deportations without due process undermine American constitutional principles and humanitarian values.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “If he put in place his full agenda, yes, this would be devastating to the global economy.” — Katherine Rampell (01:12)
• “US Treasuries have been considered the safest of safe assets... but how much. So that's not what we're seeing right now.” — Katherine Rampell (12:25)
• “This short term pain is going to end up in people losing homes, losing health care, not being able to feed their children.” — Jason Crow (66:09)
• “He is the one single handedly causing this catastrophe.” — Katherine Rampell (33:04)
• “We've grown up with America as the leader of the free world... to see decades and decades of that leadership squandered in a matter of weeks is completely astonishing.” — Jason Crow (55:32)
• “Our Constitution weighs more heavily the protection of the innocent. Our system is designed to protect the innocent, and we do that through due process.” — Jason Crow (73:19)
• “What we have learned is that the people who annoy me most in this administration are... people who really know better.” — Katherine Rampell (43:14)

For a deeper dive into these discussions and more insights, consider listening to the full episode available to Bulwark+ members.