S2 Ep1033: Tom Nichols: The Hollow Opportunists

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast - S2 Ep1033: Tom Nichols: The Hollow Opportunists

Release Date: May 1, 2025

In this insightful episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a spirited discussion with guest Tom Nichols, Professor Emeritus at the Naval War College and staff writer at The Atlantic. Titled "The Hollow Opportunists," the episode delves deep into the tumultuous landscape of the Trump administration, examining its impact on American democracy, foreign policy, and internal governmental dynamics.

1. Introduction

Tim Miller opens the episode with brief updates on upcoming events and recent interviews, setting the stage for a thorough conversation with Tom Nichols. The emphasis is on bypassing superficial banter to tackle substantive political issues, aligning with the podcast's mission to defend liberal democracy against what they term the "both-sides" approach.

2. Trump's Unwinding of America's Global Position

The discussion kicks off with Tom Nichols expressing concern over the rapid dismantling of post-World War II American-led global structures:

Tom Nichols [04:21]: "To see 80 years of post-World War II construction of a world order that was created by the Americans, led by the United States, to the advantage of the United States, of its allies, just come apart in a matter of three months is really astonishing."

Key Points:

The Trump administration's aggressive foreign policy moves are rapidly undoing decades of established alliances and global cooperation.
Nichols remains cautiously optimistic, noting that despite his criticism, the administration lacks confidence, which inadvertently benefits the U.S.
Concerns are raised about the long-term implications of dismantling established international orders, especially regarding tariffs and economic policies that primarily harm American interests.

3. Marco Rubio and the Russian Parade Controversy

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Marco Rubio, the U.S. Secretary of State, and reports from Russian state media suggesting his potential attendance at Moscow's May 9th parade commemorating the Soviet victory in World War II.

Tim Miller [06:07]: "Russian State TV is positioning us as one of the 19 friendly countries and meanwhile, he's single-handedly unraveling all of the alliances that have made us strong."

Key Points:

Tom Nichols criticizes the idea of Rubio attending a Russian military parade, especially amidst Russia's aggressive actions in Ukraine.

Tom Nichols [07:14]: "Having the Secretary of State of the United States clapping and respectfully reviewing a parade of Russian military might while they are pounding the living daylights out of civilians in Ukraine...that's bad."
Speculation about whether Russian media is trolling the Trump administration to provoke a reaction.
The broader implication of Rubio's actions signaling a weakening of U.S. alliances and a bewildering shift in diplomatic protocols.

4. The Competence Crisis in the Trump Administration

Tim Miller and Tom Nichols delve into the perceived incompetence within key roles of the Trump administration, highlighting figures like Pete Hegseth, Mike Waltz, and Alex Wong.

Tom Nichols [08:10]: "The Republican Party is now full of people... these are the hollow men. They don't really care what they're doing as long as they're not."

Key Points:

Hegseth is portrayed as emblematic of the administration's broader issues—opportunistic and lacking genuine commitment to policy or governance.
Mike Waltz's recent ouster as National Security Advisor exemplifies the volatility and lack of stable leadership within the administration.

Tom Nichols [32:17]: "The National Security Advisor is whatever the President wants it to be."
The frustration over qualified individuals being sidelined in favor of those who are more sycophantic to Trump’s whims.
The detrimental effect on governmental functionality, with critical roles filled by individuals lacking the necessary expertise or dedication.

5. Chris Krebs' Global Entry Revocation

A contentious topic addressed is the revocation of Chris Krebs' Global Entry status, following his departure from the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.

Tim Miller [19:04]: "This is like Trump seeking revenge. Well, I'm sorry, we're talking about the President of the United States and I don't know where the red line is."

Key Points:

Krebs facing unprecedented retaliation from the DOJ for his role in the January 6th investigations, marking a significant departure from standard presidential conduct.
The normalization of such punitive measures against whistleblowers or dissenting officials, undermining trust in governmental institutions.
Nichols emphasizes the dangerous precedent this sets, highlighting the erosion of checks and balances in the U.S. government.

6. Appointment of Ed Martin and Government Staffing Issues

The episode critiques the Trump administration's appointments, focusing on Ed Martin, the Acting U.S. Attorney, whose tenure is marked by questionable actions and affiliations.

Tom Nichols [41:01]: "When you become a regular guest and a friend of the show, you know, that's like having people like Cash Patel and Stu Peters."

Key Points:

Ed Martin's frequent appearances on Russian television and alignment with questionable figures raise serious concerns about his suitability for a senior DOJ position.
The administration’s nomination process bypassing traditional standards, leading to appointments based on loyalty rather than competence.
The broader implications for the justice system, with appointments like Martin potentially prioritizing political agendas over the rule of law.

7. Education Policies and Stephen Miller's Press Conference

Stephen Miller's recent press conference announcing the closure of the Department of Education and the promotion of patriotic education is scrutinized.

Tim Miller [44:14]: "Children will be taught to love America...make sure that these funds are not being used to promote communist ideology."

Key Points:

The administration's push to overhaul educational curricula to emphasize American patriotism while curtailing what they perceive as communist influences.
Nichols likens these policies to authoritarian regimes, expressing concern over indoctrination under the guise of education reform.
The potential long-term impact on American youth, fostering a generation with distorted views of patriotism and critical thinking.

8. Conclusions and Final Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Tim Miller and Tom Nichols reflect on the disarray within the Trump administration, emphasizing the perilous direction of American governance.

Tom Nichols [39:49]: "We'll see. We'll ask Pete in 10 years, because I think the Secretary of Defense thing's gonna be pretty ugly for him."

Key Points:

The anticipation of further scandals and administrative failures as the Trump administration continues its unconventional approach to governance.
Nichols underscores the fragility of American constitutional safeguards in the face of such unprecedented executive actions.
A call to action for listeners to remain vigilant and engaged in defending democratic institutions against internal and external threats.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Tom Nichols [04:21]: "To see 80 years of post-World War II construction of a world order that was created by the Americans...just come apart in a matter of three months is really astonishing."
Tom Nichols [07:14]: "Having the Secretary of State of the United States clapping and respectfully reviewing a parade of Russian military might while they are pounding...that's bad."
Tom Nichols [08:10]: "The Republican Party is now full of people... these are the hollow men. They don't really care what they're doing as long as they're not."
Tim Miller [19:04]: "This is like Trump seeking revenge...I don't know where the red line is."
Tom Nichols [41:01]: "When you become a regular guest and a friend of the show, you know, that's like having people like Cash Patel and Stu Peters."

Final Thoughts

In "The Hollow Opportunists," Tom Nichols provides a critical lens on the Trump administration, highlighting systemic issues that threaten the very foundation of American democracy. Through detailed analysis and sharp commentary, the episode serves as a clarion call for accountability, urging listeners to recognize and resist the erosion of institutional integrity and global standing.

For those seeking a comprehensive understanding of the current political turmoil and its implications for the future of the United States, this episode offers a compelling and informative perspective.

The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast - S2 Ep1033: Tom Nichols: The Hollow Opportunists

Release Date: May 1, 2025

1. Introduction

2. Trump's Unwinding of America's Global Position

The discussion kicks off with Tom Nichols expressing concern over the rapid dismantling of post-World War II American-led global structures:

Tom Nichols [04:21]: "To see 80 years of post-World War II construction of a world order that was created by the Americans, led by the United States, to the advantage of the United States, of its allies, just come apart in a matter of three months is really astonishing."

Key Points:

The Trump administration's aggressive foreign policy moves are rapidly undoing decades of established alliances and global cooperation.
Nichols remains cautiously optimistic, noting that despite his criticism, the administration lacks confidence, which inadvertently benefits the U.S.
Concerns are raised about the long-term implications of dismantling established international orders, especially regarding tariffs and economic policies that primarily harm American interests.

3. Marco Rubio and the Russian Parade Controversy

Tim Miller [06:07]: "Russian State TV is positioning us as one of the 19 friendly countries and meanwhile, he's single-handedly unraveling all of the alliances that have made us strong."

Key Points:

Tom Nichols criticizes the idea of Rubio attending a Russian military parade, especially amidst Russia's aggressive actions in Ukraine.

Tom Nichols [07:14]: "Having the Secretary of State of the United States clapping and respectfully reviewing a parade of Russian military might while they are pounding the living daylights out of civilians in Ukraine...that's bad."
Speculation about whether Russian media is trolling the Trump administration to provoke a reaction.
The broader implication of Rubio's actions signaling a weakening of U.S. alliances and a bewildering shift in diplomatic protocols.

4. The Competence Crisis in the Trump Administration

Tim Miller and Tom Nichols delve into the perceived incompetence within key roles of the Trump administration, highlighting figures like Pete Hegseth, Mike Waltz, and Alex Wong.

Tom Nichols [08:10]: "The Republican Party is now full of people... these are the hollow men. They don't really care what they're doing as long as they're not."

Key Points:

Hegseth is portrayed as emblematic of the administration's broader issues—opportunistic and lacking genuine commitment to policy or governance.
Mike Waltz's recent ouster as National Security Advisor exemplifies the volatility and lack of stable leadership within the administration.

Tom Nichols [32:17]: "The National Security Advisor is whatever the President wants it to be."
The frustration over qualified individuals being sidelined in favor of those who are more sycophantic to Trump’s whims.
The detrimental effect on governmental functionality, with critical roles filled by individuals lacking the necessary expertise or dedication.

5. Chris Krebs' Global Entry Revocation

A contentious topic addressed is the revocation of Chris Krebs' Global Entry status, following his departure from the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.

Tim Miller [19:04]: "This is like Trump seeking revenge. Well, I'm sorry, we're talking about the President of the United States and I don't know where the red line is."

Key Points:

Krebs facing unprecedented retaliation from the DOJ for his role in the January 6th investigations, marking a significant departure from standard presidential conduct.
The normalization of such punitive measures against whistleblowers or dissenting officials, undermining trust in governmental institutions.
Nichols emphasizes the dangerous precedent this sets, highlighting the erosion of checks and balances in the U.S. government.

6. Appointment of Ed Martin and Government Staffing Issues

The episode critiques the Trump administration's appointments, focusing on Ed Martin, the Acting U.S. Attorney, whose tenure is marked by questionable actions and affiliations.

Tom Nichols [41:01]: "When you become a regular guest and a friend of the show, you know, that's like having people like Cash Patel and Stu Peters."

Key Points:

Ed Martin's frequent appearances on Russian television and alignment with questionable figures raise serious concerns about his suitability for a senior DOJ position.
The administration’s nomination process bypassing traditional standards, leading to appointments based on loyalty rather than competence.
The broader implications for the justice system, with appointments like Martin potentially prioritizing political agendas over the rule of law.

7. Education Policies and Stephen Miller's Press Conference

Stephen Miller's recent press conference announcing the closure of the Department of Education and the promotion of patriotic education is scrutinized.

Tim Miller [44:14]: "Children will be taught to love America...make sure that these funds are not being used to promote communist ideology."

Key Points:

The administration's push to overhaul educational curricula to emphasize American patriotism while curtailing what they perceive as communist influences.
Nichols likens these policies to authoritarian regimes, expressing concern over indoctrination under the guise of education reform.
The potential long-term impact on American youth, fostering a generation with distorted views of patriotism and critical thinking.

8. Conclusions and Final Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Tim Miller and Tom Nichols reflect on the disarray within the Trump administration, emphasizing the perilous direction of American governance.

Tom Nichols [39:49]: "We'll see. We'll ask Pete in 10 years, because I think the Secretary of Defense thing's gonna be pretty ugly for him."

Key Points:

The anticipation of further scandals and administrative failures as the Trump administration continues its unconventional approach to governance.
Nichols underscores the fragility of American constitutional safeguards in the face of such unprecedented executive actions.
A call to action for listeners to remain vigilant and engaged in defending democratic institutions against internal and external threats.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Tom Nichols [04:21]: "To see 80 years of post-World War II construction of a world order that was created by the Americans...just come apart in a matter of three months is really astonishing."
Tom Nichols [07:14]: "Having the Secretary of State of the United States clapping and respectfully reviewing a parade of Russian military might while they are pounding...that's bad."
Tom Nichols [08:10]: "The Republican Party is now full of people... these are the hollow men. They don't really care what they're doing as long as they're not."
Tim Miller [19:04]: "This is like Trump seeking revenge...I don't know where the red line is."
Tom Nichols [41:01]: "When you become a regular guest and a friend of the show, you know, that's like having people like Cash Patel and Stu Peters."

Final Thoughts

The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.