The Bulwark Podcast: S2 Ep1034 – Derek Thompson on "Trump's War on Dolls"

Release Date: May 2, 2025

Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Derek Thompson, Staff Writer at The Atlantic and Co-Author of "Abundance"

1. Introduction and Context

Tim Miller opens the episode by welcoming Derek Thompson, highlighting his work with The Atlantic, his newsletter Work in Progress, and his contributions to the podcast Plain English. They briefly mention Thompson's upcoming book, Abundance, co-written with Ezra Klein.

Notable Quote:
Tim Miller [00:13]: “...abundance... co-written with some guy named Ezra Klein.”

2. The CNBC Rant: Capitalist Left's Missteps

The conversation kicks off with Thompson's critique of a recent CNBC segment, where he felt the capitalist left was advocating for policies detrimental to the economy, such as welcoming economic shrinkage and stock market declines.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [01:02]: “When did the capital class get taken over by degrowther protectionists seeking 19th century autarky?”

3. Understanding Autarky and Its Implications

Thompson explains "19th century autarky," emphasizing the impracticality of a self-sufficient economy that rejects international trade. He uses the example of importing goods like coffee and bananas, highlighting the economic benefits of global trade.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [03:15]: “19th century autarky just basically means you think that your economy should essentially provide everything that people consume in that economy.”

4. Trump's Trade Policies: A Disconnect Between Rhetoric and Reality

The discussion delves into Trump's aggressive tariff policies, particularly the staggering 145% tariff on Chinese-imported toys. Thompson criticizes the administration's approach, arguing that such measures are disconnected from genuine economic strategies and resemble outdated protectionist tactics.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [07:31]: “This is just a kind of state-controlled economy that's incredibly reminiscent of precisely the kinds of socialism that a lot of Americans despise.”

5. Economic Indicators: Stability Amid Turbulence

Tim Miller raises concerns about mixed economic signals—stable stock markets contrasted with warnings of a looming recession and troubling job market trends, especially among recent college graduates. Thompson responds by highlighting potential underlying issues, including supply chain disruptions and shifts in labor demand due to tariffs.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [11:53]: “The real conversation to have about this probably isn't May 2, it's June 2, but we'll see what happens in a month.”

6. The Trade War with China: Assessing Resilience

Thompson assesses the ongoing trade war, expressing skepticism about its sustainability. He points out China's dominant role in global manufacturing and warns that the U.S. might lose other trading partners if it continues its aggressive tariff stance.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [19:34]: “China makes 70% of the world's cement and steel... it's going to find other trading partners.”

7. The Crisis in American Science: Budget Cuts and Long-Term Consequences

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the Trump administration's proposed cuts to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the National Science Foundation (NSF). Thompson underscores the detrimental impact of these cuts on scientific research, innovation, and America's competitive edge.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [24:53]: “We're essentially destroying these programs... to own the libs. That makes absolutely no sense to me.”

8. The Future of AI and Its Societal Impact

Thompson explores the rapid advancements in artificial intelligence, discussing both its potential and the societal challenges it poses. He expresses concerns about AI replacing jobs, especially among recent graduates, and the psychological impact of AI-driven relationships.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [31:05]: “I think this is coming. I think it is going to be a social crisis because many people are going to be seduced by the convenience of AI friendships.”

9. Political Messaging: Democrats' Strategy Against Trump

In the latter part of the episode, Thompson discusses the Democratic Party's messaging strategy in opposition to Trump's policies. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on affordability for working families and highlighting Trump's administrative shortcomings.

Notable Quote:
Derek Thompson [46:58]: “Effective politics is about paying attention and not white knuckling.”

10. Concluding Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a lighter discussion on the NBA playoffs, showcasing the dynamic between Tim and Derek. They reflect on sports as a form of distraction and the importance of human relationships amidst technological advancements.

Final Note:
Listeners are encouraged to explore Derek Thompson's work on Plain English and his book Abundance for deeper insights into contemporary economic and political issues.

Produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.