The Bulwark Podcast: Episode S2 Ep1035 – "Bill Kristol: A Reckless, Tin-Pot President"

Release Date: May 5, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol, Editor-at-Large of The Bulwark

Overview

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a robust discussion with Bill Kristol, the editor-at-large of The Bulwark, focusing on the tumultuous second term of former President Donald Trump. Kristol critiques Trump's increasing megalomania, reckless policies, and the deterioration of his administration's integrity. The conversation delves into Trump's handling of national security, his branding exercises, interactions with political figures like Karl Rove, and the broader implications for American democracy.

Trump's Increasing Megalomania and Administrative Decline

Time Stamp: [00:30]

Bill Kristol opens the discussion by addressing the shift in Trump's first and second terms. He highlights the initial marginalization of extreme figures like Steve Bannon during Trump's first year, allowing more "normie" elements to exert some control. However, in the second term, Kristol observes a pivot towards more authoritarian and sycophantic advisors, exacerbating Trump's reckless behavior.

Kristol [01:11]: "Things are worse this second term than the first term because he's surrounded by sycophants and authoritarians... And things are also worse because he's crazier. [...] And I do think that's true, it is gone to another level."

Kristol emphasizes that Trump's increased megalomania has led to more ambitious and reckless policies, including territorial expansion plans in Canada, Panama, and Greenland. This shift signifies a move from personal wealth accumulation to grandiose nationalistic projects.

Time Stamp: [03:01]

Miller concurs, noting Trump's detachment from political ramifications and his disregard for conventional political considerations, making him more dangerous to the country.

Military Parade on Trump's Birthday

Time Stamp: [06:50]

The conversation shifts to the announcement of a massive military parade on Trump's birthday, coinciding with the U.S. Army's 250th anniversary. Kristol criticizes the event as an authoritarian display rather than a genuine military celebration.

Kristol [07:37]: "Military parades are pretty rare in the US and they tend to happen after a military victory... this is not the kind of thing that normally happens."

Miller adds that the parade feels like a "Trump USA branding exercise," focusing more on glorifying the president than honoring the military.

Miller [09:15]: "Trump will be there. And I bet the rhetoric by June 14th will be more about Trump's birthday and less about the US Army's birthday."

Reopening Alcatraz and Prison Expansion

Time Stamp: [10:13]

Kristol and Miller discuss Trump's initiative to reopen Alcatraz as a prison, viewing it as another branding effort rather than a pragmatic policy. Kristol decries the absurdity of repurposing a historic site solely for political showmanship.

Kristol [12:00]: "It's ridiculous. It's been a museum for like, I've never been. [...] Trump's all about bigger prisons. Prisons, bigger walls."

Miller likens Trump's actions to those of authoritarian regimes, underscoring the reckless and self-obsessed nature of his policies.

Karl Rove's Commentary and Party Dynamics

Time Stamp: [17:22]

The discussion turns to Karl Rove's comments on Fox News, where he criticizes Trump. Kristol analyzes Rove's positioning within the Republican Party, suggesting that while Rove attempts to stay central, his critiques indicate a growing distance from Trump.

Kristol [19:35]: "I'd say he's most of the Trump years... willing to vote for Trump and defend Trump."

Miller speculates that Rove's criticisms may signal a broader unease within Republican circles, potentially influencing party dynamics.

Trump's Stance on Ukraine and Foreign Policy

Time Stamp: [22:00]

Examining Trump's handling of the Ukraine-Russia conflict, Kristol expresses skepticism about Trump's commitment to aiding Ukraine. He questions the efficacy of Trump's negotiations and the potential for continued support.

Kristol [24:15]: "I am not optimistic about Trump helping Ukraine... Congress is going to appropriate money at some point... I think that with Vance and those people, unfortunately, I'm pessimistic."

Miller adds that Trump's pivot towards nationalism and frustration with allies may undermine existing support structures, complicating foreign policy efforts.

Trump's Pardons and January 6th Aftermath

Time Stamp: [31:45]

Kristol criticizes Trump's blanket pardons for January 6th participants, viewing them as indicative of Trump's increasingly authoritarian mindset and disregard for democratic norms.

Kristol [33:28]: "It's horrifying... the pardon of all of them... meeting with the Proud Boys organizer... like that would be happening in Turkey or Libya."

Miller underscores the dangers of such actions, highlighting the potential for increased vigilantism and intimidation as Trump consolidates power.

Impact on Anglophone Allies and Global Politics

Time Stamp: [42:00]

The conversation broadens to the international repercussions of Trump's policies, noting the decline in support for conservative leaders in countries like Australia and Canada due to Trump's aggressive stance.

Kristol [44:48]: "Australia wants to do the right thing... stand up against authoritarianism... encouraging that other allies can stand up without us being on their side."

Miller reflects on how Trump's actions strain alliances, making it harder to implement cohesive strategies against global threats like China's trade practices.

Democratic Responses and State Leadership

Time Stamp: [35:04]

Kristol and Miller discuss the responses from Democratic governors, particularly in Michigan, criticizing Governor Gretchen Whitmer's conciliatory gestures towards Trump. They argue that more aggressive opposition is necessary to counterbalance Trump's influence.

Miller [37:35]: "The whole thing is just sick to me... you're doing something that could harm you in 2028... but we're all not doing it."

Kristol echoes the sentiment, advocating for stronger, more confrontational leadership from Democratic states to effectively challenge Trump's policies.

Conclusion: A Dire Outlook for American Democracy

Throughout the episode, both Kristol and Miller express deep concern over Trump's second term, emphasizing the president's reckless behavior, authoritarian tendencies, and the erosion of democratic institutions. They highlight the challenges in mounting effective opposition within the Republican Party and the broader impact on both domestic and international politics.

Kristol [47:34]: "It's gone to his head... he thinks he can do anything... not paying attention to normal rules of geopolitics."

Miller concludes on a note of cautious observation, recognizing some positive signs in international politics but remaining pessimistic about the internal state of American democracy under Trump's leadership.

Notable Quotes

• Bill Kristol [01:11]: "Things are worse this second term than the first term because he's surrounded by sycophants and authoritarians."

• Tim Miller [07:37]: "Seriously feels more authoritarian than American... it's about Trump USA branding exercise."

• Bill Kristol [12:00]: "Prisons, bigger walls. That's what Trump's all about."

• Bill Kristol [33:28]: "The pardon of all of them, meeting with the Proud Boys organizer... like that would be happening in Turkey or Libya."

• Bill Kristol [47:34]: "He thinks he can do anything and kind of not pay attention to normal rules of geopolitics."

Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the perceived deterioration of American political norms under Trump's leadership, highlighting concerns about authoritarianism, reckless policy-making, and the weakening of democratic safeguards. Kristol's analysis serves as a stern warning about the potential long-term consequences for the United States, both domestically and on the global stage.