S2 Ep1039: Amanda Carpenter: MAGA's Bad Week

Summary

Episode Summary: The Bulwark Podcast - S2 Ep1039: Amanda Carpenter: MAGA's Bad Week

Release Date: May 9, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller welcomes Amanda Carpenter, a writer and editor at Protect Democracy and active contributor to Substack. Together, they delve into a range of pressing political issues affecting the United States, focusing on the recent developments within the MAGA movement, judicial appointments, trade policies, and election integrity. Throughout the conversation, they provide insightful analysis, critical perspectives, and highlight significant events that underscore the current political climate.

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1. The American Pope: A Symbolic Shift

The episode kicks off with a surprising announcement — the election of an American Pope. Tim Miller expresses mixed feelings about this unprecedented event, highlighting its impact on the Catholic community and broader political implications.

• Tim Miller (00:00): “We have a bulwark pope who went to Villanova, who's American. I don't know. I'm feeling about as Catholic as I've felt in a while.”

Amanda Carpenter reflects on the Pope's active presence on social media, noting the blend of tradition and modernity this represents.

• Amanda Carpenter (01:08): “I am sort of, like, trying to adjust to the idea that we have a Pope who tweets... it brings the humanity back to it, at least for those of us Americans.”

The discussion touches on the Pope's critical remarks towards Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, suggesting a political dimension to his papacy.

• Tim Miller (02:54): “Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others. It's kind of hard to not see it a little bit in a political context.”

2. MAGA's Reaction to the New Pope

The conversation shifts to reactions within the MAGA community, particularly focusing on Jack Posobiec's criticism of the Pope's stance against Trump supporters.

• Jack Posobiec (04:55): “This is not the election the conservatives wanted. God save the church.”

Amanda Carpenter critiques the MAGA faction's unrealistic expectations of the Pope, emphasizing the disconnect between their hopes and reality.

• Amanda Carpenter (05:57): “They are so up in their heads about everything. It's just unbelievable.”

3. Judicial Appointments: Jeanine Pirro's Nomination

Tim and Amanda discuss the controversial appointment of Jeanine Pirro as the interim U.S. Attorney for Washington, expressing concerns about her qualifications and potential biases.

• Tim Miller (07:37): “They're doing frivolous letters targeting people for speaking out against Trump... the politicization of a very important U.S. attorney's post.”

Amanda elaborates on Pirro's lack of legal experience and her alignment with MAGA agendas, questioning her ability to handle national security cases effectively.

• Amanda Carpenter (08:19): “She hasn't practiced law in 20 years... I don't think she's equipped at all.”

4. Attacks on Educational Institutions: Linda McMahon's Letter to Harvard

The episode highlights Linda McMahon's aggressive actions against Harvard University, illustrating a broader pattern of MAGA-driven hostility towards academic institutions.

• Amanda Carpenter (13:35): “Her letter accuses them of violating federal law... it's a way to stifle speech.”

Tim Miller connects these actions to attempts at using federal power to intimidate and control educational narratives.

• Tim Miller (14:47): “This is what they're doing across the board, ... using their bully pulpit as part of their little Maoist cultural revolution.”

5. Trade Tariffs: US-UK Deal and China's Tariffs

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around recent trade developments, including a deal reducing tariffs on Rolls-Royce airplane engines between the US and the UK, and the confusing stance on tariffs with China.

• Tim Miller (20:55): “It's an important point that we have a trade surplus with the UK... but their rationale doesn't hold up.”

Amanda Carpenter criticizes Trump's tariff policies as inconsistent and economically damaging, highlighting the lack of coherent strategy.

• Amanda Carpenter (21:01): “It breaks the idea that Trump is some kind of economic genius... shatters the idea that he's a good negotiator.”

They express skepticism about Trump's ability to manage complex trade relationships effectively, anticipating economic repercussions for American consumers.

• Tim Miller (27:33): “They can't hold a budget. He can't actually get his most insane people nominated and put in position.”

6. Budgetary Challenges and Medicaid Cuts

The hosts examine the ongoing struggles within the Republican-controlled Congress to pass budget legislation, emphasizing the potential for increased debt and the controversial topic of Medicaid funding.

• Amanda Carpenter (37:09): “He's trying to get Medicaid cuts which would deeply impact red states and Trump voters.”

Tim Miller underscores the inefficiency and deadlock within the Republican ranks, highlighting the broader implications for national policy and governance.

• Tim Miller (41:42): “This was the big point... Trump and Russ... voters told him they could do that. But they can't hold the budget.”

7. Election Integrity and Judicial Conflicts

Addressing concerns about election subversion, Amanda discusses the North Carolina Supreme Court race where significant challenges were made against a Republican candidate, ultimately leading to his concession.

• Amanda Carpenter (45:25): “This was a great win. We got a positive court decision and he finally conceded this week.”

Tim Miller praises the efforts to maintain electoral integrity and the importance of combating long-term election subversion tactics.

• Tim Miller (47:25): “It's important for citizens to not give up... their gambit failed.”

8. Reflections on Barbara Bush and Political Decorum

The episode concludes with a personal anecdote from Amanda about her interaction with Barbara Bush, highlighting the importance of maintaining dignity and composure in political discourse.

• Amanda Carpenter (56:29): “It sounds like a good coping mechanism to get out your true thoughts with a trusted friend before you have to go in public.”

Tim Miller appreciates Barbara Bush's grace and the value of expressing genuine sentiments away from the public eye.

• Tim Miller (56:43): “She's incredible... demonstrate how you're supposed to act as back in the old days when we had comedy and people with dignity in the White House.”

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Notable Quotes:

• Amanda Carpenter (05:57): “They are so up in their heads about everything. It's just unbelievable.”

• Tim Miller (14:47): “This is what they're doing across the board, ... using their bully pulpit as part of their little Maoist cultural revolution.”

• Amanda Carpenter (21:01): “It breaks the idea that Trump is some kind of economic genius... shatters the idea that he's a good negotiator.”

• Amanda Carpenter (45:25): “This was a great win. We got a positive court decision and he finally conceded this week.”

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This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a comprehensive examination of the current political upheavals, particularly focusing on the MAGA movement's challenges and setbacks. Through thoughtful dialogue and critical analysis, Tim Miller and Amanda Carpenter underscore the resilience of democratic institutions and the ongoing struggle to preserve liberal democracy in the face of populist threats.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Foreign. Welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. One quick note once again for the Bulwark Takes podcast feed. There's just so much crazy happening in the world, you know, and I shaped a podcast yesterday morning on the protests, which I thought was very cute and important and a change of pace for what we're doing around here often. And then, you know, two minutes later, we have an American Pope that's crapped on J.D. vance. So me and JVL got on our house Catholic, you know, our house Catholic in good standing at least. And so, you know, if you wanted a quick response to what's happening when crazy stuff happens, just go ahead and make sure to download the Borg Takes feed. And if you missed it yesterday, go listen to jvl, because he's really great on this stuff. But we're doing a little bit more on the Pope right here today. For those of you who are patient, who can wait 24 hours in this world, that's a good practice. And we've got a good guest for it. It's my old friend, a writer and editor at Protect Democracy and contributor to if youf Can Keep it on Substack. It's Amanda Carpenter. What's up, Amanda?

[Amanda Carpenter]

Hey, Happy Friday. Are we all feeling a little Catholic this morning?

[Tim Miller]

It's Friday. Well, you know, I mean, as a cradle Catholic, I gotta tell you, we had some bumps. I had some bumps in the road with my Catholicism, but my little brother went to Villanova. Oh, it's an American pope. I saw multiple tweets about how it's a bulwark pope because he voted in the Republican primary in 2016. We have from the records, but he sent some quite negative tweets about Donald Trump and J.D. vance. So we have a bulwark pope who went to Villanova, who's American. I don't know. I'm feeling about as Catholic as I've felt in a while. I'm ready to do some hymns from my childhood.

[Amanda Carpenter]

I know. I feel like I should congratulate you and jbl. Although I am sort of, like, trying to adjust to the idea that we have a Pope who tweets or exes or active at social media. I mean, it's very cool. I think a lot of people are rightly excited.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And it's so strange. It does bring home just the Pope. Even to me as a Catholic, as a kid, it does feel so distant. Right. It feels so distant and holy. They're like a creature that's not quite human. A little Bit mostly human, but a little bit not. And then all of a sudden you have this Pope and the pictures are going around and it's like, here he is at the deep dish pizza joint in Chicag, and, like, here's his brother who was, you know, watching cable and, like, came downstairs in the suburbs, in Chicago to start talking about it. I don't know. The whole thing is a little surreal, that I think that's good. It brings the humanity back to it, at least for those of us Americans.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah. And hopefully we think this one will be around a while. I feel like we've been through quite a few popes, like, more popes than normal. Like, they shouldn't be turning over this quickly. So I'm hoping the American one stays.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, He's a ripe 69.

[Amanda Carpenter]

There you go. That's what I was looking for.

[Tim Miller]

We're gonna do a little bit of politics. JBL did write a tryout on this. People should check out about how the College of Cardinals was probably not thinking about Donald Trump when they were deciding who the Holy Father should be. And yet it's hard for us to avoid the fact that the most recent tweet that he sent was a retweet where the person is quoting theologian regarding Donald Trump's policies in El Salvador. Do you not see the suffering? Is your conscience not disturbed? How can you stay quiet? And one of his last previous tweets before that was simply, J.D. vance is wrong. Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others. So it's kind of hard to not see it a little bit in a political context. No. Is that too myopic?

[Amanda Carpenter]

No, those are fairly direct statements. I guess you can put it this way. They may not take into account America's politics in making that decision, but there's no way the decision makers were unaware of those tweets. Right. There's no way that they were unaware of the fact that Donald Trump was posting AI images of himself as the Pope. I mean, those things would be hard to miss. And even if they weren't on the ledger of pros or cons, they were certainly in the ethereum, in case you.

[Tim Miller]

Have doubts about whether or not they were aware. This was the mind blowing one to me. My friend JoLynn Kent was interviewing one of the Pope's brothers. I was like, yeah, we were playing wordle the day before and I was texting him and I was like, have you watched the movie Conclave to Prepare? And the now Pope replied, yeah, I just finished Conclave. So there you Go. It's a strange world. Okay? We just for one laugh. We gotta have one laugh before we get into serious business.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Oh, there's gonna be more laughs.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, great. We'll start with a laugh here. Pizzagate. Jack Posobiek. The person we believe is behind the end wokeness Twitter. That's what the buzz is. He was on Real America's Voice, a very important news outlet, where Bannon's show is and others. It's a MAGA news outlet and he was live when the Pope was chosen. And we should just listen to his reaction real quick.

[Jack Posobiec]

What I'm seeing from his social media does not bode well for Trump supporters because we're seeing things here where he's attacking JD Vance and not years ago, very recently promoting anti Trump and anti Bukele articles regarding deportations of criminal illegals to the United States. He was attacking that less than three weeks ago. We even see him posting anti Trump articles from when Trump first ran for office. Not going to mince words, folks. I'm not going to mince words. This is not the election the conservatives wanted. God save the church.

[Tim Miller]

God save the church. Amanda, I saw another one of these guys was tweeting about how he had posted a retweet about how maybe we should have some new gun laws following a mass shooting of children. It's like these guys wanted the AR15 carrying border wall Pope. I don't know that they're ever going to get that pope, but that's what they were hoping for.

[Amanda Carpenter]

What's sort of amazing, when you listen to him talk and other people, they act like the new Pope is going to lead some crusade against Trump just because he had the audacity to. To post online that JD Vance is wrong about something that constitutes like the greatest attack on the American presidency that we've ever seen. God save the church. I just. They're so up in their heads about everything. It's just. It's unbelievable.

[Tim Miller]

They really are. It would be like some lefty posting. It's like, have you seen that this Pope is against abortion? It's like, yeah, right. Yeah, bro. The Pope is not for, you know, alligator moats on the border. It goes a little bit against what you're going to get.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Doesn't like throwing immigrants in prison. That is shocking. What a shocking statement.

[Tim Miller]

That wasn't a huge fan of semi autos. Anyway, on from the Pope to somebody a little further from God. We have a new interim U.S. attorney for Washington.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Okay, we gotta start with the good news on this.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, go you guys, we do not.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Have Ed Martin as the D.C. u.S. Attorney.

[Tim Miller]

We do not have Eagle Ed Martin.

[Amanda Carpenter]

That's the second big blow to MAGA this week. Hardest hit, Steve Bannon.

[Tim Miller]

That is true. Eagle Eyed, a frequent guest on Steve Bannon's show. Somebody, I gotta say, we are on this one. People are like, why are you talking so much about this random U.S. attorney? There's so many other bad appointees. I was like, you don't know how bad this appointee is. And he's been horrible. He's everything that you would not want in a U.S. attorney. Just doing frivolous letters targeting people for speaking out against Trump. And it's just the utter politicization of a very important U.S. attorney's post.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah. And then ringleader, when it comes to the January6 defense of insurrectionists and fundraising for them on the ground. I mean, really, a top organizer on that front. And I just, you know, defending white man. Just sort of imagining, you know, Ed Martin is sitting somewhere, probably like McLean something and just wondering, why is Cash Patel get a position? And I don't like. I just, I just wonder how that feels.

[Tim Miller]

Can't feel great. So that was the good news.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah, I know.

[Tim Miller]

The question is, is his replacement any better? Question mark? I think maybe. Who knows? We'll see.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Okay. You can't say better. You just have to soberly analyze.

[Tim Miller]

Soberly is the key word.

[Amanda Carpenter]

What she does or does not bring to the table in terms of mechanically understanding today how the Department of Justice works.

[Tim Miller]

Soberly is the keyword there. Judge Box of wine. Jeanine Pirro is the choice. The 23rd selection by Trump of a Fox News personality for a job in his administration. Damon Linker, friend of the Bulwark, wrote this this morning, which I liked. With the Piro appointment, we see once again that Trump is just an elderly man who watches Fox News all day and thinks the on air talent is as good as it gets. Which makes sense because the on air talent has chosen to impress elderly men who watch Fox News all day. I think that's pretty insightful.

[Amanda Carpenter]

She does sit in the leg chair a lot.

[Tim Miller]

She does.

[Amanda Carpenter]

She brings in.

[Tim Miller]

Leg chair's the one on the end on the five table. For those who don't get that Fox.

[Amanda Carpenter]

News staple, you won't see it anywhere else.

[Tim Miller]

There's no leg. I guess that's true. There's no real. There's no leg chair on Nicole's chair.

[Amanda Carpenter]

No one else does that. Where a woman wears a skirt at the end of the table. I haven't Seen it done anywhere else.

[Tim Miller]

That's a good point, Amanda. As a gay man, I hadn't really thought about that.

[Amanda Carpenter]

The glass table. Megyn Kelly pioneered the glass table.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Carpenter]

So you could see the legs. I'm not making that up.

[Tim Miller]

You know, when you're spending that kind of money on the legs, Linker is, point is right. And so there's a way to look at this that's kind of soberly pointing and laughing at their absurdity. You know, there's some things to be concerned about, though, again, about the politicization. This is an important job, the U.S. attorney, first off, it's supposed to be the place that you're looking at public corruption. Obviously, Jeanine Piero's not going to be investigating any public corruption in the Trump administration.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Not her ex husband, who Trump pardoned. Definitely not him.

[Tim Miller]

It's supposed to be a post where, because of the D.C. you kind of have more control over just regular crime investigations than in other jurisdictions because there's not D.C. statehood, which maybe should have been on Joe Biden's list. So it's hard to imagine she's gonna be focused on the carjackings and the rapes and the other stuff in D.C.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Actually, I think that might be the only thing she will focus on. So the reason why this position is so. Has outsized influence and has so much prominence when it comes to attorney generals is that naturally, because of the jurisdiction it is in, it has a lot of very complex national security cases, white collar crime, you know, things that might have to do with government corruption. I mean, these are, these are big ticket items that you don't see in other places. The other like, comparable one might be New York. So, you know, what does she bring to the table? She hasn't practiced law and I think 20 years, because she's been commenting on the news, which, you know, I'm going to say I do disagree.

[Tim Miller]

She had a failed Senate campaign first.

[Amanda Carpenter]

And then there was that. I do disagree with Damon a little bit on the idea that these Fox News hosts aren't useful in the way that I think Trump understands politics is media in this world, right? Like, it is interchangeable. It is the job. You can't separate the two. And so sort of saying, well, they're just, they're just Fox News hosts. How could they do this job? Trump sees the job as that and communicating to the public at all times because he has a propaganda president. So, you know, that's, that's in one bucket. That's why she's there to do the messaging, which is why I think you could anticipate her doing a lot of things on the D.C. crime level, because they want to crack down on crime and. And be really seen as that law and order president. And I think they have a lot of ambitions to use the District of Columbia as a test case for other things that they want to do on the policing front. And she, I think, is a contender to do that. But when it comes to the actual important things that someone in that role should be playing when it comes to the national security cases, et cetera, et cetera, I don't think she's equipped at all.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, that's a fair point now, Jed. We'll see. I guess the point that where I was going with it is the ball is going to be dropped somewhere, because what they're going to want her to do is the stuff that Ed Martin was doing, right. As far as sending a letter to Georgetown about their DEI program, sending a letter to Robert Garcia, because he used a metaphor, talking about Elon Musk and how it was like a threat against his safety or whatever, sending the letter to the medical journal because RFK asked him to, about how they're being unbalanced, all these totally frivolous political attacks that you can do from a perch such as this. Now, once you officially indict someone, you know, then you need a grand jury, then you got to prove a case. So, you know, there are some limits, of course, on, you know, your ability to cause problems from a U.S. attorney spot. But I do think that those things we're going to see from her, and we know that because she was on Fox, and when she was on Fox, she would constantly criticize back during the first Trump administration, Jeff Sessions and Chris Wray and other people in Department of Justice positions of power for not defending Trump harder and not going after his foes and not doing this. And so I think she will see as part of her remit going after Trump's foes, whether she's effective at that. I'm guessing probably not. But I do think all the time spent on that is time not spent on this national security stuff and whatever, you know.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah. And definitely, you know, prosecuting terrorists and things like that, that actually, you know, are very quite serious. But one, one note on that, in terms of Trump looking for people who will do that kind of work for him, I really want to raise a flag on Linda McMahon. Have you been watching what she's been doing? She issued an insane letter to Harvard that sounded like some, you know, 22 year old staffer wrote it after just imbibing on Pizzagate Jack for the last five years. I mean it was really, I really urge people to go read that, go read that letter that essentially just accused them of harboring hate in every respect. And how dare you let in where are these foreign students going from? It's just three pages going on and on like that. And so she is someone I didn't really have on my bingo card of stepping into that role. But she's all in.

[Tim Miller]

Well, she's used to playing a character for the wrestling show. So she'll play the MAGA character. I think that's right. I mean the Harvard thing, it's sort of similar to the Doge stuff in the sense of, I wonder if you feel this way too, like, I don't know, you could probably sell me on the fact that these universities endowments should be taxed. You could probably sell me on that. The idea that things that were initially nonprofits turned into hedge funds and we should maybe tax them like hedge funds instead of nonprofits. If there was a serious non political effort. That's like Liberty and Harvard, you know, all these universities that are doing that like that have turned into real estate companies. My Alma or GW should also, you know, be taxed. You can sell me on that program. I probably, maybe that's wrong, I don't know. But I think that there is a legitimate policy argument there. But what these guys are doing is not that they're bullying. You know, they're just trying to use their bully pulpit as part of their little Maoist cultural revolution to like try to pressure any institutions that they think are undermining them. And that's like what they're actually doing. It's not some policy efforts to create tax fairness.

[Amanda Carpenter]

You know, one of the things that is really interesting about Linda's letter to Harvard is that, you know, the whole reason that Trump started going after these universities for anti Semitism, right? This traces back to the executive order he issued in his early days. The reason why he's going after Colombia now, going after Washington University, who had some protests over the last week where students broke into an engineering building, took it over damaged equipment. And so now there's a task force investigation going from Trump into that university. So like there is stuff happening on that front. But if you look at the letter that she wrote, she essentially outright accuses them of violating federal law. Like barely obliquely references a congressional hearing about the anti Semitism without even going into it. And so it's like this Is all pretext, like, raising the idea that we're protecting Jewish students when there are things happening on these campuses, but just using that as, like, the big hammer to go after them with and sort of forgetting the plot and the process is something I'm watching.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And it's a way to stifle speech. Like, we have this situation at Tulane, which is a private university that's down the street where there were seven students, I think, that were doing a peaceful protest. And, like, you know, they called in the cops. And, you know, it's all the stuff where, look, none of us. I'm not for, like, disrupting classes or.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Obviously, by the way, that did happen again.

[Tim Miller]

Obviously intimidating.

[Amanda Carpenter]

That did happen again in Columbia this week where they took over a library and people had to come in again. So I don't. I just want to make sure I'm not, like, downplaying that. But, yeah, it's a mixed bag.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it's a mix. But, like, when you have the feds, like, doing this, like, solely as a way to try to stifle opposition, to try to bully, to try to give a jiment set a pretext for this. This is what they're doing across the board, and it's important. I guess this is what gets us back to Pirro. And that's why it's important that they're appointing people that are willing to do it. And you need people that are willing to put their name on these ridiculous letters because you're not actually going to win in court, but you can go a long way as the government by threatening, you know, by intimidating and because people, Universities end up. And other institutions end up saying, well, I just don't want to deal with the hassle, you know, so we'll do something here so that if we get one of these letters, we can say, hey, look at this. We called the cops on these seven students. You know, and like, that is the pernicious element of it. Deleteme makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, it's easier than ever to find personal information about people online. Having your address, phone number and family members names hanging out on the Internet can have actual consequences in the real world and makes everybody vulnerable. More and more online partisans and nefarious actors will find this data and use it to target political rivals, civil servants, and even outspoken citizens posting their opinion online. As somebody who is an outspoken citizen posting my opinion online way too often, that's something that I'm conscious of. And somebody was sending around a little email to me yesterday about how in one of these scrapes, someone thinks that they figured out our new Bulwark Pope's email address. And I'm thinking, man, if the Pope's online information is vulnerable, well, that's a sign that mine and yours probably is, too. So take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Bulwark and use promo code Bulwark at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com bulwark and enter code bulwark at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com bulwark code bulwark. More news. Yesterday we had a big deal, big, big deal with the UK big announcement with the 10% tariff that we put on UK that we put across the board tariff still remains. So it's a big art of the deal here. With a few exceptions, they took it down to 0% on Rolls Royce engines. I talked about this a little bit with Sam. Yeah, I know. I talked about this a little bit with Sam on YouTube yesterday. So quick correction. A couple of people flagged this for me. It's airplane engines. I thought it was car engines. I guess Rolls Royce makes airplane engines. Either way, it was a little gift to Boeing because Boeing is part of the deal. Also as part of UK Purchasing some Boeing equipment. We have also as part of the deal, the beef, I guess, export tariff goes down so that UK can finally get some good beef over there across the ocean, which is nice. But all things said, there wasn't any actual real progress on. There were some people like your old boss Ted Cruz and some others who were saying, oh, this is just Trump, the deal maker. And eventually we're going to land in a place where we have better, freer trade, Right? And he's just using his cards, right, to get there. And it's like, okay, well, here's the first deal we've seen. And the 10% tariff that is going to hit anybody in America that gets their allergy medicine from the UK or gets whatever other products we're importing their tea from the UK like it's going to be 10% more.

[Amanda Carpenter]

We had a trade surplus with that.

[Tim Miller]

That's an important point. Thank you for bringing that up.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Why? I mean, I, okay, I really, I love this Tariff issue. I just got to say, I love it. I think it's going to be super important for two reasons. It breaks the idea that Trump is some kind of economic genius that is going to lead the country into prosperity. Shatters that idea. And we're going to see it this summer because he can't unwind the effects now. But also, you have the double bonus that it also shatters the idea that he's a good negotiator.

[Tim Miller]

Yes.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Again, why are we negotiating with countries that we have a trade surplus with? That makes no flipping sense.

[Tim Miller]

This whole point is the deficit.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Are we doing any of this? And again, it goes back to, like, you know, this idea. The reason why he's doing this, he said in an executive order, we have to have, like, Liberation Day and tariffs because there's some national security issue. What are you talking about? What is the national security issue that you had to revisit and negotiate the price of beef like some nanny state leader, where you're just, like, getting in there with your little ledger. Be like, okay, Rolls Royce, you can have a waiver for airplane engines. I mean, just like, it is bananas. It's not a good use of any president's time. Although, you know, I don't mind Trump wasting some time not doing worse things. But it's just like, you know, the movie idea tariff. Like, since when are foreign films part of a national security emergency? I mean, I know he gets ideas from the movies, but it's just the dumbest crap possible, and it's. It's gonna blow up in his face, and people better be ready to explain why. You know, this is just not only bad policy, but it's bad autocratic policy. This kind of, like, autocratic bullshit does not make anyone more prosperous or more free. You know, people always give him the critique. Well, he doesn't understand how tariffs work. He absolutely understands tariffs in the context, in that this is a mechanism I can use where everyone needs to grovel to me and I get to be in charge. That's why he likes the tariffs. But, you know, the idea that this is all done under the umbrella of a supposed national security emergency. I mean, I expect false flags to be better orchestrated, especially by a conspiracy theorist in chief. I mean, this is just the flimsiest flim flam, and it just deserves to be crushed and destroyed.

[Tim Miller]

I have two thoughts. One, on your point about how we have a trade surplus with the UK this is so important. Just as far as the political rationale argument is concerned, it's not that important. On the actual economics, because it's fine to have trade deficits with countries, but they don't have a coherent rationale for why they're doing this. Because they can't say this. They can't say what you just said, which is the true thing. Trump just wants power and wants to be able to give people waivers and feel like a king. Right? Like, that's really why they're doing this. Like, that's the real reason. Right. And, and they can't say that. Right. So you have to come up with all these rationales, right? And it's like, oh, it's national security. That's why we need a fentanyl. We need a fentanyl mountie.

[Amanda Carpenter]

The dolls are going to attack us.

[Tim Miller]

We need a Mountie in Canada, you know, to be a fentanyl mountie. And like, like, that's one reason. And then, then it's like, oh, it's because we have this trade deficit with all these countries. We need to even out the deficit. But it's like, well, wait, no, we're doing this with the country we have a surplus in now, right? It's like, oh, we're going to bring manufacturing back. But then it's like, well, not all the manufacturing. I mean, Andy Ogles, a congressman, was on TV saying that, like this, this is part of the El Salvador negotiation too, because we need prison labor to make some of our shirts, because we're not going to make all these shirts. Oh, they have no rationale. And the UK deal undermines, like, the one consistent thing that, that they're saying again, which does make any economic sense. Larry Summers really is really good on this, where he's like, I have a trades deficit with my grocery store. I give them money, they give me groceries. Like, that's, that's fine. That's how the economy.

[Amanda Carpenter]

And that's a nice position to be in.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, right. But anyway, that's their argument and they totally undermine it with this UK thing. Let's sound like Republicans from the 90s for one second. Okay, here's the other thing. Kevin Williamson wrote about this in the Dispatch. Trump, he's a socialist. It's crazy. It's great. Like, they were talking about how, like this whole time, it's like, Kami Kamala, it was the whole thing during 2024, was Kami Kamala Trump, because what, she wanted to increase corporate taxes by 2%. Trump is trying to centralize control of the economy. He's put in place the biggest tax increase in our parents lifetime with these tariffs. The biggest working class sales tax increase on everybody that we've seen in this country in a long, long time. On top of that, he said recently that he'd be okay with a top tax bracket increase which by the way, I won't go there.

[Amanda Carpenter]

But it's hey up, Donnie. Got lots of meme co see it.

[Tim Miller]

So like it's truly wild that like even on the core issue that like you would think that they would maintain whatever traditional conservatism like he is running a government that is far more socialist, far more centrally managed than anything any Democratic nominee has proposed since probably fucking McGovern.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah, but not only that. I mean you couple in the education and the book bans and we want to get in and see what curriculum you are teaching and what is the makeup of your faculty in the staff room. And we want to send your children to work in factories and that's how we'll make America great again. I mean it is really just top to bottom garbage.

[Tim Miller]

Soviet. It's Soviet central planning. That's totally unbelievable. Just one more thing on tariffs, potentially of a slight cave. And coming on China, I want to contextualize this for people though. The New York Post reported yesterday that they're weighing a plan to slash the 145% tariff that we have currently on Chinese imports down to maybe as low as 50 to 54%. That was their report yesterday.

[Amanda Carpenter]

I'm not great at math. Is that a lot?

[Tim Miller]

It's a lot.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Is that a big discount?

[Tim Miller]

That's a big discount. Turns out that was fake news though from the New York Post because this morning Trump sent a bleed that said 80% tariff on China. Seems right up to Scott B. There you go. Here's the shit sandwich. Scott Besant, Good luck. Your call.

[Amanda Carpenter]

145 to 80 because why art of the deal. Sounds good. That's a good number.

[Tim Miller]

That's right round. He likes how there's the two circles on the eight and then the one circle on the zero. And it looks aesthetically nice.

[Amanda Carpenter]

So what's kind of fun? It's kind of. It's interesting to watch how he's setting up these guys to get fired and blamed when this blows up in his face. Predictably this summer. Well, like, you know, he didn't negotiate the right rate. I would have gone for, you know, insert 245, whatever it's going to be. He only got 70. That's why it didn't work. Bye. Bye. And then who's the next best Fox News economic analyst? They'll be coming in next. He tried Stephen Moore for Fed Chair before, but that didn't work because he didn't pay child support.

[Tim Miller]

He's always asking for some diversity. So, like, who's the. Who's that? There's a black guy. There's a big. He's kind of a big fella. Payne. Payne. Charles Payne.

[Amanda Carpenter]

There you go.

[Tim Miller]

I think he might be on the short list. He might be on the short list.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Get your slide decks ready.

[Tim Miller]

I think it's just worth saying because I think that I'm concerned that our friends in the mainstream media might fall for some of this, which is like, even if this tariff went down to 50%, like we're already seeing this across the world. Like, oh, well, he's. The UK deal. It's like, we have a deal now and we've got some down to zero. It's like if you had told people in November that he's going to come in and put a 80% tariff on China and a 10% tariff on the UK, everybody would be like, that is insane. Hair on fire insanity. But he benefits sometimes from doing, like, extremely crazy things that are like just sort of way beyond the pale and then bringing them back to, like modestly crazy. And then people are like, oh, well, he dialed it back.

[Amanda Carpenter]

I agree with you. But this one is so difficult just because there's so many countries and so many products and so many things to keep track of and the system is so finely tuned when it comes to imports and shipping. I mean, this one is just too easy to screw up. And thinking this is like another issue where you can message your way out of it. The economy doesn't lie. His people will. The economy does not lie. When things start getting jacked for back to school shopping, when people are looking for their back to school sneakers, you know, and things like that. If there is any kind of shortage on the shelves, I mean, people are tuned into it now. They know what to expect. Dang, I wish Amazon would have stuck to that threat to start putting the tariffs on their prices. But there's going to be other companies that do that because they're going to have to explain to consumers that this isn't their fault and they may be happy to pass on the cost to customers and keep them later, but I think people will recognize what is happening this time around because there's been such a long warmup and it's going to be. It's going to be more than eggs.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you're definitely going to see it on other smaller retailers who don't care. Like Amazon Trump has leverage, right? Because it's like, well, you got the space stuff and all this other stuff, right? But like I was seeing, I forget the name because I'm not a big shopper of women's dresses, but there was a women's dress online, you know, retailer. One of my Instagram friends are sharing this. They're like they're going to be a bridesmaid. Like the bridesmaid dress ended up being an extra like $300 with the new tariff. Right? And so all of that stuff is going to sorry to trigger some of the lib listeners trickle down into the economy and people are going to, people are going to start noticing it.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Trickle down tariffs.

[Tim Miller]

Right? This episode is also sponsored by Sol. Seoul has those out of office gummies that we've been talking about, but also the out of office beverages. I'm going to tell you, you know, you don't want to have that hangover sometimes you don't want to have that hangover. And now we're in NBA playoff season and I've been trying to do I do no drinking on weeknights. So I'm not hungover for this podcast. They're occasionally an exception, you know, like Jazz Fest, but I'm doing my very best to be 100% fresh in the morning. But the Nuggets games are stressing me out and so a little out of office beverage is I think a nice compromise, something that you guys can consider as well and you can do that with sole. Sol is a wellness brand that believes feeling good should be fun and easy. Sol specializes in delicious hemp derived THC and CBD products designed to boost your mood and help you unwind. Their best selling out of office gummies were designed to provide a mild relaxing buzz to boost your mood and enhance creativity and relaxation. They come in four different strengths so you can find the perfect dose for your vibe. Choose from a gentle microdose, perfect buzz, a noticeable high, or a fully lit experience. I'd stay away from the fully lit experience, Mom. With wellness at the forefront, you can feel good about what you're putting in your body. All of Sol's products are made from organically farmed USA grown hemp. And if you like the gummies, as I mentioned, you got to try those beverages. A refreshing, alcohol free alternative for perfect summer sipping. Plus Sol has other amazing wellness products that help improve sleep, stress, pain, focus, bloating and more. Bring on the good vibes and treat yourself to Sol today. Right now, Sol is offering my audience 30% off your entire order. Go to getsoul.com and use the code thebullwerk. That's getsoul.com promo code thebullwerk for 30% off. Do you have any takes on the birthday parade? I just wanted to throw that on the table. I don't know.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Well, I do, because it is a birthday parade. You can see everybody getting warmed up, like, oh, it's the 250th anniversary. It's for the Army. No, it's a birthday parade. He's always wanted this thing. And I think we will know whether it's a birthday parade or a military parade when you see who is front and center at the part of it. And, like, one big tell is that Trump is the one who's putting it on. If it were a military celebration, Trump would be invited, not running it. I would say that's probably a key distinction, but I do want to, like, sort of tee up around this event that will be happening probably at some point in June. I think we need a better way of explaining and understanding what is propaganda and what that looks like in America versus normal political persuasion. Because, like, the president does have a lot of ability to persuade the public. But what Trump is doing is fundamentally different in multiple levels. And I think if this does happen, this will be the purest expression of it, in that political persuasion is meant to sort of bring people along. It's rooted in fact. But the propaganda that Trump engages in on a constant way, as well as all the people that are surrounding him in the Cabinet, it's really meant to divide people and polarize people and say, you are either with me or you are against me. That is not persuasion. And that's what makes all of this so different in ways that are kind of, like, hard to analyze because we haven't seen it before. But leveraging the federal government for these propaganda purposes that are meant to split us apart and make people choose between us and them. You know, sort of like the ads that Kristi Noem is putting out with taxpayer dollars to thank President Trump. That is not an exercise in political persuasion. That is propaganda designed to promote the idea that Donald Trump has gifted this border enforcement upon us or what have you. And I'm getting a lot of these ads on Hulu, weirdly. And part of the tell for me, in a way that I think I can explain to other people, is that if you see the other ads that are being putting out on the campaign side from Trump aligned groups, people like Chris Evita running it, et cetera, you can't tell the difference. You can't tell the difference between what's like a government PSA and what is a campaign ad, other than if you would know that Kristi Noem is actually a cabinet secretary. And so I think we really need to have a discussion about how the communication tools are being exploited in ways that are really malicious and go beyond what should be acceptable.

[Tim Miller]

Way beyond. Way beyond.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah. Yeah. To say the least.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. I don't know. I guess I've got a month to warm up. More birthday parade takes. But just in case I didn't see you between now and then, I wanted to get the Amanda view. I never was the Hill person. You were. We're coming up on these, you know, this tax cut talk. I don't want to get too, I don't want to get too excited, but I've seen some things this week that have made me feel like it might be possible. They bungle this like the big thing and we'll do a deep, deep dive on health stuff with somebody as we get closer to getting the bill details. But they get one shot at this because it's reconciliation where they're going to have to jam through something without the filibuster. And they want to extend the Trump tax cuts. But like 32 Republican members, it's going to sound familiar to you, I bet. Said they're not going to do it without. They're not going to vote for something that increases the debt. That is impossible. So they're going to have to rationalize this somehow because just extending the tax cuts themselves is going to cost like 4 or 5 trillion. The moderate sent a letter yesterday. I was like, ooh, we're not going to vote for anything that doesn't bring the salt deduction back for people in the high tax states. These are kind of the New York Republicans, basically Trump floating. Maybe we can pay for some of this by increasing taxes on the top tax bracket and then backing off of that. I don't know. It seems ugly. Like, David, this is supposed to be the only thing really that Mike Johnson does this year in John Thune, because they have passed nothing since the Lake and Riley Act. They've literally passed like three bills since the Lake and Riley act and they seem to be struggling. So I'm wondering what you think about, about all this. Like, will the old school Tea Party guys really hold the line?

[Amanda Carpenter]

Well, here's, I think any discussion about how this is getting boggled, because it is. Should start with the fact that, oh, wait, where's Elon Musk, I thought he had this handled right. Like that was the whole reason he came in to do the Doge rescission, send it to Congress and we got the cuts, we're good. And somehow his 70 bazillion trillion in cuts dissipated to 1 billion to 150 to nothing to where is it? So, number one, I think we need to evaluate that the guy that Trump brought in to take care of this has failed. Otherwise we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But also, it's an all Republican Congress. What's the problem there? These guys can't solve it. And so I think that is also a mark against a key economic promise of the Trump 2.0 presidency, which was supposed to be so much better, so much more efficient. Isn't the Project 2025 thing rolling? No, it's not. It's not. And one thing I am in particular watching and think is extremely interesting. Just as a baseline, the Trump budget cuts more than the Hill wants to, the Hill wants to spend more. And the secret weapon that Russ Vogt and others have always wanted to deploy is something called impoundments, which I know you've talked about before, which is essentially Donald Trump unconstitutionally unlawfully saying, congress, you can pass all the money you want, but I'll just cut where I want. This is how we held up the Ukraine funding in Trump 1.0. But now Republican senators are sort of onto that fact because I do think there is a contingent of people thinking, well, okay, the Hill can do what they want, we can let them pass the budget, but we can knife it later through impoundments. But there was an interesting story in Politico, I think, published two days ago, where it quoted Republican appropriators. Simpson of Idaho, I think essentially said, we see impoundments and we think it's illegal. And there's going to be a challenge on that. Murkowski was weighing in. And so that to me is a very positive development when it comes to how the budget process will be used and how Trump could potentially be constrained on some level. But one other really interesting development is that there's talks about cutting Medicaid funding. And Josh Hawley, he has been out there. He's the number one MAGA populist essentially. And I haven't really seen maybe JD Vance got close to it, but making the case that the president, you can't cut this funding for our people, this recognition about how this would deeply impact the red states and impact Trump voters. So people are hearing about that.

[Tim Miller]

Can I tell you Something uncomfortable about Josh Hawley. And then I want to go back to the budget stuff.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

I've agreed with him twice this week and it's making me uncomfortable because he did a big post yesterday about how Facebook shouldn't have their own currency. Facebook is talking about creating a stable coin.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Oh, wait, so he's against crypto coins and meme stuff?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I think that. I think case by case basis. I think the president. The president can have his own currency and he can get bribed, but he doesn't want corporate America to have their own currency. Okay. I'm not saying, I'm just, I'm not saying he's perfect or consistent. I'm just saying he did have that picture of a shirtless man on his wallet on the wall in college. And he is kind of right about Medicaid and he's kind of right about Mark Zuckerberg shouldn't be allowed to have his own currency. So I don't take the winds where I can get them with Josh Holland. That poster is really something. He's on the baby. I guess maybe it's just about fatherhood.

[Amanda Carpenter]

It's skin on skin contact, skin on.

[Tim Miller]

And I loved skin on skin with my child. I'm now distracted thinking about the poster. Okay. The budget thing though, I don't know. I mean, I guess they're going to probably have to jam it through somehow. But they're the big pickle. I guess this is the big point I guess that I'm trying to make is that like, and if this is happening, if you are right and if I am right, if our doomerism about the tariffs is right and the economy really hits the skids this summer and they haven't jammed this through, in my opinion. They should have just tried to jam something through as quickly as possible. And they're debating this in July and the economy's hitting the skids and they gotta do Medicaid cuts and people are pissed and Josh Hawley's are pissed about that and they've got some hardliners on the debt. You know, maybe there are only four of those that actually exist anymore, but they're a problem and they've got the blue state guys and they're a problem, I think it might get uglier than I had previously thought. I kind of assumed they were just going to write something and Trump was going to bully everybody into jamming it through. And I think that still it's probably the most likely option. But I don't know, I think it might be Uglier than that.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah. If people want to see a sign of how badly it's going. Kash Patel testifying on Capitol Hill this week. So he had to go to the Hill to talk about the FBI's budget.

[Tim Miller]

Let's play it right now for people.

[Kristi Noem]

I have a timeline on that.

[Chris Murphy]

It was due last week by law.

[Kristi Noem]

I understand.

[Chris Murphy]

And your answer is you just understand you're not going to follow the law?

[Kristi Noem]

My answer is that I am following the law and I'm working with my interagency partners to do this and get you the budget that you are required to have.

[Chris Murphy]

And you have no timeline?

[Kristi Noem]

No.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Hmm.

[Chris Murphy]

Well, we also need a full budget request request. Not a single paragraph full of wild talking points that we saw with the skinny budget proposal. We're now having a budget hearing without a budget request. So, Director Patel, where is the FY 2026 budget request for the FBI?

[Kristi Noem]

It's being worked on, ma' am.

[Chris Murphy]

Have you reviewed it? Have you approved it?

[Kristi Noem]

Not yet.

[Chris Murphy]

When will we get it?

[Kristi Noem]

As soon as I can get it from my interagency partners and get it.

[Chris Murphy]

Approved six months from now.

[Kristi Noem]

I don't know, ma' am.

[Chris Murphy]

Well, how do we, as Congress, do our budget and our work without that request and without the spend plan?

[Kristi Noem]

Well, ma' am, I'm here. I'm doing the best I can. I can't make up answers. I'm going to commit to you, to work on getting you the information you need.

[Chris Murphy]

That. That is insufficient and deeply disturbing. No response.

[Kristi Noem]

I've given my response.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Now. There's probably not any part of me that feels sorry for me about Kash Patel, but I would feel sorry for him in that moment if I was not familiar with his record and had not read his coloring books about Trump. But just how uncomfortable was that?

[Tim Miller]

He's getting berated. And Kristi Noem got berated about a similar thing. To your point about this impoundment. They're trying to get around all these problems with the budget, but it's not following the law. It's Trump and Russ. Voters told him they could do that. But, like, here's the problem with all that is, like, that works politically for them on the epa. Right. Because all of the Republicans on the Hill actually don't care if they're funding environmental protection. Right. It does not work for the FBI. It does not work for dhs. Right. Like, does that work for some of these other hhs? Does that work for some of the Medicare things where there are Republicans on the Hill who. Who their name was they were a co sponsor on the bill, they worked on this, and they passed the budget. And they don't want fucking Russ vote deciding whether or not to spend the money. And this is all too arcane for Trump to get involved in. So it's like the one area where these Republicans on the Hill can like, show a little spine and be like, whoa, like, we funded this program. Whatever their pet project is, you guys have to actually spend it. You have to, have to actually do this. And FBI is one of those areas. And I think that's why the cash thing was so humiliating.

[Amanda Carpenter]

I agree. But I'll keep watching it even though it was super cringe. And the Chris Murphy and Kristi Noem.

[Tim Miller]

It was really good. I'm gonna do a separate video that for YouTube just because God love Chris Murphy. He deserves a standalone. Let's do a little bit of good news. The North Carolina Supreme Court race. For folks that have not been following this, the Democratic candidate won, very close race. And the Republican was doing all kinds of stop the steal type stuff and, like, challenging votes. I wanted to challenge all the votes from people who are expats and like, do all these other chicanery. And it was going on for months and finally they gave in. So talk to us about what we saw there. I know you guys were working on that.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah, this is. Well, a long story, but a great story. Yeah, we had a lot of protect democracy folks working on this case. But long story short, there was a Republican candidate, a judge, he was actually a sitting judge named Jefferson Griffin, and he lost the election in November. But this thing has gone on since then. He fought it and fought it. He lost the race by a little over 700 votes, but then tried to challenge and disqualify 65,000 votes. So they were really just kind of going after everything and like, okay, you know, there's jockeying. Even a judge who should know the law shouldn't be doing this. But what was really concerning was that the North Carolina Supreme Court let it go on. And one of the most outrageous things that he was doing is that he was trying to disqualify military ballots because they didn't have a photo id, even though no photo ID was required. So, like, you know, the fact that it continued for so long, even on the basis of these just really ludicrous claims, was a big deal because it was essentially leaving this open. But great news. We got a positive court decision and he finally, finally conceded this week. And, you know, I think this is especially important because this is the Kind of like long term election subversion that a lot of us feared after the presidential election. It didn't happen because Donald Trump just won by so much. But this was a model, right? Like this, this was the thing that we feared, that you could like keep people out of the seat for so long and ultimately persevere by getting courts just to let it continue. And so this was a great win. And also I think it's important to look in the context of how well the court system is continuing to hold Trump. He's been stopped a number of times, hundreds of times by a lot of lower level decisions. And so you do have to take some kind of heart in that. Although there can still be big conflicts coming.

[Tim Miller]

Totally agree. This is so glad you guys are out there doing this work. And this is kind of what we talked about with Leah and Ezra a little bit yesterday from Indivisible is like, it's important to be able to hold in your head at the same time both thoughts, which is that our democratic institutions have been weakened and maybe in some cases permanently, and we are in a real time of threat and yet we're not Russia. And the path for Hungary from Hungary when Orban took over fucking 15 years ago or whenever it was to now was not an inevitable path. And it's not inevitable that Hungary is going to end up being Russia. There are opportunities still to stop it. And I do sometimes get feedback from people that are like, these guys are going to cheat and they're going to block people from being able to vote and we're totally fucked. And we're not even really going to have real elections anymore. We're not there yet. It's very important, the work that you guys are doing and others in this space. And it's important for citizens to not give up on, to not have that attitude that it's already done. Because we see in cases like this their gambit failed. And frankly it failed in a race that was pretty darn close, really quite close. If it was ever going to work, it'd be a case that had I used to know the number, But I'm forgetting 87 votes or 500 votes, whatever it was, it was a very small number of votes that separated the candidates. And so if they can't steal that one, that's actually a pretty good sign, right, that there are still a lot of elements out there that can allow us to push back against this and hold our fucking liberal democracy. What else is out there with protect democracy? Do you have any thoughts on that or is There any other stuff you guys are monitoring, worried about?

[Amanda Carpenter]

Yeah, one more thought. And the big thing that I think we're really monitoring and watching and trying to prepare for. But first, if you want to stop authoritarianism, especially when it comes in the form of this populist style, which it often does, you have to make the autocrat less popular. And the way you do that is by actually demonstrating that you can put cracks in his armor, that he is not inevitable, that he does lose in court, that, yes, this whole tariff thing that he's rolling out is actually kind of a disaster. They can't actually hold a budget. He can't actually get his most insane people nominated and put in position. He does have people that he has to put out to pasture because of things like Signal Gate. It's important to demonstrate that they're not capable, they're not the all knowing, all encompassing leader of the world. Talk about his failings because there are many. And then you have to be in a position to explain to people why he's not executing on the promises that did make him popular. So I think there's a lot of opportunity to do that, a lot. And it's happening now. And so it's why I feel more helpful than I have been in a while, even though things are extremely rocky. And the biggest concern I have going forward are conflicts with the court defying court orders. I think you see now that Trump and his people will maintain that they're complying with court orders while just not doing it. You know, you see, the Supreme Court really doesn't want to have a confrontation with him. But I do worry that we're going to see something like that. And as a secondary layer to that, there is a lot of energy in the MAGA circles and even voiced by people like J.D. vance and Elon Musk, that you have to find a way to just terminate or get rid of district judges that you don't like. You know, this whole idea, this is a big mantra in MAGA world right now, is that how can you allow district judges to issue nationwide injunctions against the President's agenda? I mean, that's not what's happening when they stop the President with a TRO or something like that. They're just upholding the law. That's what they're doing. But they're setting up again, this propaganda like us versus them battle where the judges are not with them, even though, and many times they're appointed by Trump. And so the defiance of court orders and any kind of push to remake the Federal judiciary, starting with places like the District of Columbia, impeaching judges. Those are the big ones I'm concerned about.

[Tim Miller]

Better you than me out there doing the work.

[Amanda Carpenter]

We've got lawyers who are much smarter who actually know this stuff, and I just get to hear about it and try to help along in the best I can, but it is not me.

[Tim Miller]

It's a great organization. Do we have to talk about Joe Biden going on the View yesterday? Do you want to just skip it?

[Amanda Carpenter]

I didn't watch it.

[Tim Miller]

People are mad at me on social media because I just. I wish you would just paint. I wish you would just paint. And it.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Just walk on the beach.

[Tim Miller]

My blood pressure gets up, and he doesn't sound good. And it's. And, like, doing the thing about how he would have won, and it was sexism, and I just.

[Amanda Carpenter]

I didn't watch it. Just saying, I can't watch him. I'm happy to say that myself and be like, I didn't watch it because I can't watch him.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, great. We're the same. All right, let's just move on from it. I felt like it's a politics podcast, and, you know, the former president did a big interview.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Oh, yeah. I thought you were gonna say the View is a politics show. I wasn't gonna say.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, no. I was like, this is a politics show. So I kind of, like, feel like I should mention that Biden went out there, but it was just.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Just.

[Tim Miller]

It's tough for me. It's tough to swallow. All right, well, I've got one more thing. So I don't know if you saw this, but Melania did a event where she had an unveiling of the Barbara Bush stamp yesterday.

[Amanda Carpenter]

Were they friends?

[Tim Miller]

No, they were not, and they're not friends. So they did an unveiling. George W. Was invited, didn't go. I don't know if Judd was invited. I didn't ask him. It didn't seem like he was there. And I just wanted to take this opportunity. God luck. That Barbara Bush. I just felt, well, I'm happy she gets a stamp. I'm sad it got unveiled by Melania, but over the course of history, I don't think anyone will realize that, so I think it's okay. But I had this lovely encounter with her during the Jeb campaign that I feel like now it's far enough away that it's okay to share. And she was going to do an interview for us with Nora o' Donnell, like, on behalf of Jeb, and she hadn't done any interviews. If folks remember the olden days, she had said that people were sick of the bushes, and she hadn't really done any interviews of that. And so it's kind of like, okay, let's do an interview and talk about maybe how her views have evolved on that, though maybe she was right with her initial view, but that's neither here nor there. And it was my job to, like, brief her, you know, and so I never met. I met her, you know, in, like, in a group setting or whatever, but I'd never been one on one with Barbara Bush before. So we're doing the interview in, like, a hotel room in New Hampshire, and it's snowing, and she's like, walk into the hotel room on her little walker through the snow, and it was so cute. And she gets into the room, and her. The person that is staffing her is there. And, you know, I sit down, and she's like, okay, well, what are we gonna do? What do you want from me? And I start going over kind of the easy questions, the obvious things Nora's gonna ask her. And she's amazing. I mean, she, like, didn't need me to prep her at all on any of this stuff. And then we get to the tough questions, and I'm like, okay, well, they're gonna ask you about Donald Trump. You know, what are you gonna say about that? And she. I don't. I don't have a tape of it, so I don't remember exactly what she said. But you know how sometimes when an old person, like, says a word, and it's like they're spitting and saying a word at the same time, and she's like, despicable or something. She just looked like she wanted to throw up. Talking about. Talking about Donald Trump and talking about how he was so horrible to women and how it's so appalling that he is in this position right now and how much she despises him. And then she, like, goes off for a full minute, and then she looks at me and she go, but I'm not gonna say that. I was like, okay, what are you gonna say? And she gave a very appropriate first lady comment about how she has disagreements with him, particularly on women's issues, and she thinks her son would be a better candidate. I was like, okay, great. And then they're probably gonna ask you about Ted Cruz. And she goes. And she does the same thing.

[Amanda Carpenter]

She was like, stop torturing me.

[Tim Miller]

Talks about how terrible Ted Cruz is and how unbearable it is to have to watch him. And she finishes that statement. She goes, but I'm not gonna say that. And I was like, okay, what are you gonna say, ma' am? And she was like, well, I'll just say that I think that my son's gonna be a better president. And I was just. It was such a delight to just be able to listen to her just get off her chest, her absolute disgust on every level for Donald Trump and to a lesser extent, Ted, and then demonstrate how you're supposed to act as back in the old days when we had comedy and people with dignity in the White House. And so she'll be missed. She deserves a stamp. She deserved. I don't know, Doug Emhoff revealing it probably instead of Melania. But such is life. I don't know. Amanda, do you have any parting words for us?

[Amanda Carpenter]

You know what? It sounds like a good coping mechanism to get out your true thoughts with a trusted friend before you have to go in public and maybe say something you regret. So maybe I'll borrow that sometime.

[Tim Miller]

You know, that is good advice from Barbara Bush, Amanda. It's something that I will try and fail to put into practice. Thank you so much for coming on the pod. It's always great to see you. For everybody else, enjoy your weekend. We have a new pope. They're saying he's a bulwark pope. We know he's the south side of Chicago pope. So live in that Catholic in the small c. Apostolic. The whole world in the catholic sense. Be together this weekend and we'll see you back here Monday with non catholic but favorite of the pod, Bill Kristol. See ya'll then. Peace.

[Leroy Brown]

Little south side of Chicago is the better and if you go down there you better just beware a man named Leroy Brown Now Leroy more than trouble. You see you stand about 6 foot 4 all old downtown ladies call him Treetop over All the men just call him sir and it's Bear bam Leroy Brown the betterest man in the world whole damn town Better than old King Kong meaner than a junkyard dog Now Lero, he a gambler and he like his fancy clothes and he like to wear pills and diamond rings on everybody's nose he got a custom Continental he got a Eldo ride over he got a.32 gun in his pocket for fun he got a razor in his shoe Better man in the whole downtown Better than old King Kong Mean a junkyard dog We're Friday batty week ago Leroy shooting dice and at the edge of the bar sat a girl named Madara Zano oh, that girl looked nice when he cast his eyes upon her. And the trouble soon began. And Leroy Brown and earned a mess about a mess with the wife of a jealous man and his fan madman. And Eroy Brown, the better man in a whole damn town. Better than old King Konger, than the junkyard dog. Better than old King Kong.

[Tim Miller]

The Borg Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.