S2 Ep1044: Peter Hamby: All in Service of Kissing Trump's Ass

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast: Season 2, Episode 1044 Guest: Peter Hamby
Release Date: May 16, 2025

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In this engaging episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller welcomes Peter Hamby, a prominent media figure known for hosting Snapchat's Good Luck America and the Daily Puck Pod. The conversation spans a wide range of pressing political topics, offering insightful analysis and spirited discussions. Below is a detailed summary of the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions covered during the episode.

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1. Preparing for Peter Hamby's Appearance on Bill Maher Tonight

[00:28 - 01:20]

Tim Miller begins by announcing an upcoming joint live show featuring Sarah Longwell, John Lovett, and himself, set to coincide with World Pride in D.C. on June 6th. The event serves as a fundraiser for the legal team supporting Andre Hernandez and others who have been disappeared to El Salvador.

Notable Quote:

"It will be serious but also fun and also gay. And you should come."
— Tim Miller [00:28]

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2. Congrats and Rankings

[01:20 - 02:53]

Tim congratulates Peter on his appearance on Bill Maher Tonight, while Peter playfully teases Tim about The Bulwark Podcast ranking at number 34 on the YouTube podcast charts. They discuss the competitiveness of podcast rankings and the challenges of climbing higher in the charts.

Notable Quote:

"You're smoking their asses."
— Peter Hamby [02:30]

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3. Jim Comey's Controversial Instagram Post

[02:55 - 05:07]

The hosts dive into a contentious topic involving former FBI Director Jim Comey's latest Instagram post, which seemingly signals resistance against President Donald Trump. Tim expresses concern over the ominous undertones of the post, while Peter analyzes the historical context and dismisses the likelihood of any severe repercussions.

Notable Quotes:

"James Comey, in my view, should be held accountable and put behind bars for this."
— Tim Miller [04:15]

"Apparently. When I was growing up, my dad used to say 86 all the time because he had a restaurant background."
— Peter Hamby [04:40]

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4. Media's Reaction to Political Violence and Threats

[05:07 - 09:07]

Tim and Peter discuss the media's handling of political violence, referencing past incidents like the assassination attempts on Trump and the general lack of sustained media focus. They critique the performative nature of various political figures' responses to such threats.

Notable Quote:

"Maybe just don't post that from a man of the Internet."
— Peter Hamby [09:07]

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5. Tulsi Gabbard's Recent Actions and Their Implications

[12:03 - 18:23]

The conversation shifts to Tulsi Gabbard's firing of the National Intelligence Council's top officials after their report contradicted the administration's stance on Venezuela's Maduro regime. Tim and Peter analyze the implications of these firings, drawing parallels to historical political maneuvers like the Iraq War prelude.

Notable Quote:

"This is worse than that because, like, this is after all of the reckoning between all the intelligence departments before the Iraq war."
— Peter Hamby [13:15]

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6. Immigration Policies and Border Control

[18:23 - 25:01]

They delve into the current state of immigration policies, discussing border apprehensions, deportations, and the effectiveness of the Biden administration's strategies compared to Trump's. Tim highlights the decrease in violent crime and fentanyl deaths, attributing some successes to the current administration.

Notable Quote:

"Deporch half a million people this year."
— Peter Hamby [22:32]

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7. Democratic Party's Unpopularity and Voter Sentiments

[34:06 - 43:35]

Tim raises concerns about the Democratic Party's declining popularity, referencing recent polls where the party ranks poorly among voters. Peter agrees, attributing the unpopularity to a lack of connection with younger and diverse voters. They discuss the challenges Democrats face in appealing to a broader electorate.

Notable Quote:

"We've, we have to consider that the problem isn't just, like, young men,"
— Peter Hamby [43:35]

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8. Gavin Newsom's Policy Shifts and Political Strategy

[48:10 - 58:00]

The hosts analyze Governor Gavin Newsom's recent policy moves, including scaling back healthcare for undocumented immigrants to balance the state's budget. They debate whether Newsom is intentionally shifting towards the political center to appeal to a broader constituency. Peter highlights Newsom's initiatives, such as capping tailpipe emissions and implementing laws protecting rappers from being charged based on their lyrics.

Notable Quote:

"Newsom started, like, people who illegal immigrants who are already enrolled in Medi Cal get to keep it, but he's going to cap enrollment for new ones."
— Peter Hamby [56:07]

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9. The Future of AI and Human Relationships

[74:59 - 78:41]

Tim and Peter explore the potential future where adults might marry AI humans, discussing the societal implications of such relationships. They consider the technological advancements required for AI to become indistinguishable from humans and the ethical concerns surrounding emotional connections with machines.

Notable Quotes:

"I believe a robot that is fully AI will marry a human and vice versa. For real, in your lifetime at scale."
— Peter Hamby [75:12]

"It's the anti-human movement and I'm very annoyed about it."
— Tim Miller [78:51]

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10. Parenting Advice and Personal Anecdotes

[80:03 - 85:21]

In a lighter segment, Tim offers Peter unsolicited parenting advice, emphasizing instinctual understanding over formal guides. They share humorous exchanges about parenting challenges and the realities of raising a child.

Notable Quote:

"Just love that little girl, that's all. Just love her."
— Tim Miller [82:34]

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11. Closing Remarks and Future Episodes

[85:21 - End]

The episode concludes with playful banter between Tim and Peter, hinting at future podcast guests and upcoming topics. They encourage listeners to check out Peter's other projects and tease the next episode's focus on Greek and Roman philosophers.

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Key Takeaways

• Media and Political Threats: The episode highlights the dangers and performative aspects of political rhetoric, especially from influential figures like Jim Comey.
• Immigration and Crime: A nuanced discussion on the effectiveness of current immigration policies and their impact on crime rates and public safety.
• Party Dynamics: Insight into the Democratic Party's struggles with unpopularity and the need for better connection with diverse voter groups.
• Policy Shifts: Analysis of Gavin Newsom's strategic policy changes aimed at balancing the budget and appealing to a broader electorate.
• AI and Society: Forward-looking conversation on the ethical and societal implications of AI-human relationships.
• Parenting Realities: Personal anecdotes underscore the importance of instinctual parenting over reliance on formal guides.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tim Miller [04:15]: "James Comey, in my view, should be held accountable and put behind bars for this."
• Peter Hamby [02:30]: "The Code Pink crowd, you are smoking their asses."
• Peter Hamby [13:15]: "This is worse than that because, like, this is after all of the reckoning between all the intelligence departments before the Iraq war."
• Peter Hamby [22:32]: "They’re going to deport half a million people this year."
• Peter Hamby [56:07]: "Newsom is going to cap enrollment for new [undocumented immigrants]."
• Peter Hamby [75:12]: "I believe a robot that is fully AI will marry a human and vice versa. For real, in your lifetime at scale."
• Tim Miller [78:51]: "It's the anti-human movement and I'm very annoyed about it."
• Tim Miller [82:34]: "Just love that little girl, that's all. Just love her."

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This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a comprehensive and thought-provoking discussion on current political climates, media influences, and future societal changes. Peter Hamby's insights, combined with Tim Miller's hosting, provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the complex issues shaping today's world.

Transcript

[Peter Hamby]

Packages by Expedia.

[Tim Miller]

You were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights, hotels and hammocks for less.

[Peter Hamby]

Expedia made to travel.

[Tim Miller]

Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. As mentioned yesterday, we are doing a joint live show, a big gay live show. Sarah Longwell, John Lovett and me. And we're gonna have some special guests that will probably also be gay. It is during World Pride in D.C. june 6th. It will be a fundraiser in support of the legal team that is doing the work on behalf of Andre Hernandez and a few of the other folks that have been disappeared to El Salvador. So it will be serious but also fun and also gay. And you should come. Come. Yeah, I hate to send you to their website, but I think it's going to be easier just go to crooked.com events. Ours had a bunch of other backslashes there, so crooked.com events. You won't get in trouble. Go over and get tickets there. Today's show, he's the host of Snapchat's Good Luck America. He's a partner at Puck News and host of the Daily Puck Pod, the powers that be. It's Peter Hamby. What's up, Hamby?

[Peter Hamby]

Hey, man. Congrats on the Nuggets, boy. You finally got some scoring spread out.

[Tim Miller]

In my guy from Gonzaga. It's been such a fun series, man, and I just, I wish it was an 11 game series. It's been the distraction that I needed in my life. You know, the Nuggets have had seven game sevens since COVID so during this horrific era of Trump and Covid, when I needed distraction, there have been seven series that have gone seven games, which is not so great for my husband, but it's been wonderful for me to get me away from all this nonsense we're about to be talking about. So we'll see how it goes on Sunday. I'm looking forward to it.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, I even got Katie paying attention. Cause the games are pretty exciting. Um, hey, also, Tim, congrats on the Blark podcast being ranked number 34 on the YouTube podcast charts. You're below. You're below. Just Trish and Nightcap. You're well below Megyn Kelly. You got some work to do there.

[Tim Miller]

Well, just Trish is, you know, some good stuff. Number 34. That's about where I finished in most of the presidential primaries that I worked on. 34th place, that seems about right.

[Peter Hamby]

I was just going to say the college version of Tim would be happy about the fact that you, you're 20 points ahead, 20 places ahead of Democracy Now. So the Code Pink crowd, you are smoking their asses.

[Tim Miller]

All right, 34 is pretty good, guys. Help us get ahead of Megyn Kelly, Texas, show to your friends, because we can do it. Top 34 is pretty good. That's all podcasts. It's not just news. So I'm out there in these streets competing with Pardon.

[Peter Hamby]

Joe Biden versus Tim.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, all these folks. So we're doing pretty good. All right, while we're doing congratulations, you're on Bill MAHER Tonight with CNN's House Heel, Scott Jennings. And so we're gonna do a little prep. That's why I asked you to come on today. I figured that we could go through some of the topics, run you through the paces. So you're sharp tonight for the HBO audience. First topic I think may come up, I don't know, is the fact that the former FBI director Jim Comey hosted kind of like a live laugh love themed Instagram post. Had kind of like a live laugh love energy. Was a seashells on a beach walk. And it said 8, 6, 4, 7. If you haven't figured that out yet and you're a listener, we assume it stands for 86. 47, as in get rid of 47 or we're out. We're done with 47. 47 being Donald Trump, the 47th president. We've had a very normal reaction from our government to that kind of silly resistance post. Kash Patel sent out a tweet that the FBI is monitoring this and they're giving the Secret Service all the necessary support they need. Trump said that Jim Comey called for his assassination and that he's a dirty cop. And here's Tulsi Gabbard. Do you believe Comey should be in jail? I do. Any other person with the position of influence that he has, people who take.

[Peter Hamby]

Very seriously what a guy of his.

[Tim Miller]

Stature, his experience, and what the propaganda media has built him up to be. I'm very concerned for the president's life. We've already seen assassination attempts. I'm very concerned for his life. And James Comey, in my view, should be held accountable and put behind bars for this. Jailed. We should be jailed for a cringe resistance post.

[Peter Hamby]

That was cringe.

[Tim Miller]

Peter, what do you make of that?

[Peter Hamby]

Well, first of all, a lot of thoughts here. One, I'm glad 86 is now everyone knows what 86 means. Apparently. When I was growing up, my dad used to say 86 all the time because he had restaurant background. It's like a restaurant term, like kick someone out or, like, finish the dish or whatever. I guess it also has a military meaning, like you kill someone.

[Tim Miller]

Was your dad calling for the assassination of the people that he wanted?

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, he sure wasn't.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Peter Hamby]

He sure wasn't calling for that.

[Tim Miller]

I've met. I've hung out with your dad. He's got a night like he was a fedora. He's got a nice demeanor. He doesn't seem like the kind of person that. Or it's not a fedora. What kind of hat is that? What do we call that hat your dad wears?

[Peter Hamby]

I don't know. He's had these, like, Panama Jack hats. It's just like a cool hat. I don't know.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Anyway, he doesn't seem like a man calling for assassinations very often, but, you know, tbd.

[Peter Hamby]

No. So a few thoughts on what Tulsa Gabbard said. One, no one in the media and on the left likes James Comey. Like, she's pretending that he's some sort of left wing hero.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. He's got some fans. It's a niche group.

[Peter Hamby]

He's in the Bulwark lane. I feel like.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, very. Norm's loving. Norm's loving centrists like James Comey.

[Peter Hamby]

Okay, fine. He is not some sort of, you know, artist archangel over on the left or among Democrats or whatever. Though. The other thing is two points to this. This falls under the category of stupid that people post on the Internet. Like, Comey probably shouldn't have posted it, but he also shouldn't worry about going to jail or being investigated. And then the Washington Post actually just today did a good roundup of all the times Donald Trump and Trump people have posted about political violence and threatening violence or winking at violence and specifically using the term 86. Matt Gaetz used it one time in 2024. He said that his political allies had 86 three party leaders in recent months. He was referring to McConnell stepping down. Jack Posobiek called at one point in 2022 to 86. 46. That would be Joe Biden. None of these people are in jail.

[Tim Miller]

Send them to El Salvador. Send them to Pizzagate, Jack. Straight to El Salvador. No jury, no trial, or sending them straight to el Salvador. If AOC gets in in 2029, you better watch out. Pizza gate.

[Peter Hamby]

The stupid shit here is Tulsi and Kristi Noem and Cash are like. They know the way to warm Mr. Trump's heart is to post about something like this. So, like, part of Me, when we first talked about this yesterday, I was like, oh, God, this is just like performative, stupid social media bullshit. So they can salute Dear Leader. Nothing will come of it. I'm sure James Comey is going to get a knock on the door. I don't think he's going to El Salvador prison. One other thing, though, that, like, I've been thinking about a little bit lately and you might disagree with this is the press and Democrats kind of moved on pretty quickly from the assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. Like, I don't think a lot of people in the elite spaces and like, the big blue affluent cities kind of appreciate how much that turned Trump into, like, this messianic figure with his people. And, like, there were one and a half assassination attempts on Donald Trump during the campaign. So it's like, James Comey's not going to do it. And no shooter is going to go listen to James Comey's little, like, Outer Banks seashell message to go shoot the President. But, you know, there is some, like, agreement.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, the first guy wasn't really a resistance guy, for starters. And also, you know, I mean, Gerald Ford had a couple assassination attempts. You don't hear about that. You don't learn about that in school. I mean, I'm not trying to downplay it. It was really bad. I. But it's just like, I don't know, what did you want the media to do? I mean, they did a whole convention night about it. That's his pictures on the side of. He kissed the firefighter Aiden Ross guy gave him a Tesla cybertruck with his bloody picture on the side of it. I mean, I don't know. We. People talk about it. I just don't know what.

[Peter Hamby]

Because we're of a certain age. You should just reflect back on when Sarah Palin had her super PAC and she put crosshairs on people, on Democrats in vulnerable districts. And everyone in the Fox News world, like, sorry, everyone in the mainstream media, the lamestream media, lost their minds over this. And yeah, that was stupid. It was just a dumb thing. She, by the way, almost won a defamation case against the New York Times for saying, for the time, saying in an editorial she was threatening political violence. But she lost that case. But, you know, it's. The Internet is. Is just stupid, man. It's just fucking stupid. Maybe just don't post that from a.

[Tim Miller]

Man of the Internet. Essentially, we're gonna get more into the dystopia towards the end of the pod. I do want to do a little bit more Bill Maher prep for you though, on this topic, because our man Scott Jennings. I don't know if listeners know this. Scott Jennings was my colleague. Scott Jennings worked for Jeb. And I got to tell you, I wasn't. I didn't really love him then. We're just going to whisper that. And I do feel a little vindicated on that front.

[Peter Hamby]

I've known him since 2014. I did a big profile of McConnell during that reelection primary with Matt Bevin back then.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, interesting character.

[Peter Hamby]

Scott and Holmes and I went to a minor league baseball game in Louisville. And now Scott's famous.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, so, dude, he doesn't perceive that there's going to be tension tonight because he posted this picture of you and him and Bill Moore and he said common sense and free speech will be debated by us all. And to promote this. Did he get your approval on that?

[Peter Hamby]

No, but I believe in common sense, Tim. I'm not.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you do. And free speech. It'll be interesting to see if he does, though. So I'm wondering if this comes up. So I think as part of the prep today, I'm going to. I'm gonna pretend like I'm Scott Jennings. I'd like to hear your reaction tonight. Let's do it. Bill Maher asks him about, what do you think about this James Comey post? And Scott Jennings is like, well, it's sad and pathetic that he's got tds. Okay? James Comey has tds. He's wandering around the beach looking at rocks. People don't want the bias from the FBI. Okay? People don't want this bias. And the liberals have lost their mind. And I don't know if there's an actual crime here, but let's be honest. Depraved leftists have bloodlust for Donald Trump. It's unacceptable. These are sick people. It must be stopped. They're gonna keep losing elections cuz they've gone insane. And I'm sad that James Comey has become one of them. Okay, okay. We can agree with that. Okay.

[Peter Hamby]

Do you want me to respond to that?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Peter, what do you think?

[Peter Hamby]

I mean, I just. I'm gonna say what I just told you. I'm sorry. Like that's a good scotch innings impression, I guess. But like, you know, it's not that good. There are some TDS out there in the world.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, Sorry. Okay, well, while we're doing prep, because I used to be a media prep person, if that does come up, you might just consider raising, I don't know. Free speech does include cringe. Live, laugh, love memes. Free speech does include seashells that say 86, 47. And it's probably bad if you're mad about free speech. And the thing that you're mad about is that annoying liberals wag their finger at you when you say pussy or whatever. When you say something inappropriate and you get wagged a finger out and you think that's a threat to free speech. You should also be pretty mad when the director of the FBI and the director of the National Intelligence says that we should jail somebody for a meme. I don't think that that would be a very popular take if it was James Comey saying he was going to jail. Pizzagate, Jack Posobiec. I don't think that Scott would be for that. So that might be something to bring up. Just an idea.

[Peter Hamby]

That's a good point.

[Tim Miller]

We're brainstorming that up. We're brainstorming.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, yeah, okay. We're ideating, as we say in tech world, whiteboarding.

[Tim Miller]

You know, you're going to keep getting warmed up as this podcast goes along. By the time you get out there tonight, we're going to give you a cocktail. You're going to be nice and loose. Other thing I haven't got to. This week we played that Tulsi clip. There's another news item regarding her that I want to make sure folks are aware of. She fired the National Intelligence Council's top two officials. So not random people. The top two officials on the National Intelligence Council over so called politicization of intelligence. The firing of acting NIC chair Mike Collins and his deputy Maria Langen Rykoff comes after an intel report from the council last week contradicted the administration's assertion linking Venezuela's Maduro regime to the criminal gang trend to Aragua. So the short of it is people don't get this was basically in order to justify the Alien Enemies Act. The administration said, you know, we are being invaded by a foreign entity. And as part of the support for that, they're like, you know, the Venezuelan government is colluding with these gangsters to whatever invade our country. That's obviously not true for anybody who just like reads a newswire story about what's happening in Venezuela, but the Intelligence Council put it on a formal document that this is not true and the people that wrote that fact are having fired. I don't know what. If you have any thoughts on that.

[Peter Hamby]

I do. One is, is like, I would say Kristi Noem and Tulsi are two of the most sort of like they feel like they're genuflecting before Trump. I don't know if I did, like, a draft of which which I love. Cabinet members kiss Trump's ass the most. I think Tulsi would be, like, the.

[Tim Miller]

Most obsequious cabinet members.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah. I think she'd be a top five.

[Tim Miller]

Who's your first pick? Let's. Let's just do it. Let's do a draft. We'll do a top five. Who's your first?

[Peter Hamby]

Do you want to do it, like, fantasy style where we go back and forth, or do you.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

All right. My number one. My number one is going to be Christine because she, you know, there's obviously the El Salvador showmanship. She's running television ads, I think that, like, come out of her own, like, leftover campaign committee money saying, thank you, President Trump, for all you're doing. Like, she knows that Trump will be watching Fox and see her doing a commercial. You know, I live in Los Angeles. I do not care. And I celebrate it. If people want to get enhancements, you know, like Botox fillers, I celebrate enhancements, too. You know, she did change her face. No one has more of a new face than Kristina and, like, hair extensions. You know, it's Suzanne lambert that. The TikTok influencer sort of talked about this, but it's like the Mar a Lago face. Yeah. Like, she went from being the Midwestern mom with the Iowa haircut to being, you know, Mar a Lago Palm beach look and tweets, we'll do anything for Mr. Trump. So she's my number one pick.

[Tim Miller]

It's a good pick. Suzanne Lambert. You don't know this, but it's a great promotion. Suzanne Lambert's on FYpod, the Gen Z pod this week, so people go check that out. She's great.

[Peter Hamby]

Oh, nice. Yeah, I met her at the White House correspondence thing. She's cool. She's legit.

[Tim Miller]

My pick is Howard Nutlik. Okay. I just don't think it's even actually close. I think he was the clear first choice, and I'm happy. I got good value getting him at number two. All right, your pick is number three, third pick.

[Peter Hamby]

Well, I guess if we're on that topic, pick. I mean, does J.D. vance count as a cabinet member?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

I mean, it's got to be J.D.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

I mean, like, I mean, this is. This is a canonical bulwark take. But has anyone transformed themselves more than J.D. vance in pure service of gaining power?

[Tim Miller]

All right, fourth pick. So, man, Tulsi's out there she's out there. Scum. Bessence out there. But I'm gonna do a sleeper. I'm gonna do a sleeper with my fourth pick, Brooke Rollins, the Secretary of Agriculture. I mean, she told people to farm their own chickens in support of Mr. Trump. I mean, that's a pretty big ask. And that's like a kind of a Soviet type request that people should start farming to support the Dear Leader. They'll have a good harvest. You have a good egg harvest this fall, as long as you just get your MAGA chickens. So I'll take her for four.

[Peter Hamby]

Okay. I'm going Scott Besant next.

[Tim Miller]

Scott. So Tulsi doesn't even get picked. This is how obsequious the.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Wow.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, you're right. I'm invalidating my own take.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Sixth, though, I think strong six. I'm taking her six. So I feel like my team's pretty good. Nutlik, Rollins and Gabbard versus Besant, Vance and Nome. Ask people to vote in the comments who you think is. Yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

Who'd win a hoop it up tournament with that? Three on three.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. If the challenge was like, you know, who could lick the Trump feet, like, in the most ostentatious manner, which team would do better?

[Peter Hamby]

Can I tell you two facts about Besant Tim that I find interesting? I just like to spend a lot of time on Wikipedia beyond the fact that when the markets were going this way and that Bessant was just saying, yeah, whatever, just knuckle through it, grind through it. And then later taking credit for some brilliant strategy. The tariff stuff is so stupid. He used to work one for the Soros fund.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

He was a partner at Soros. Okay. So that's one thing. Two, his name, his full name is Scott Kenneth Homer Besant. I don't know any homers.

[Tim Miller]

Homer in 1925.

[Peter Hamby]

Homer Simpson. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Really? Yeah. Homer. Homer Besant. Well, fuck. I think between Nutlik and Homer, we've got new names from the whole cabinet. That is great. Homer Bessant.

[Peter Hamby]

That's a great Homer Besant. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Another fun fact is that his hedge fund that he started, like, lost money every year for the last five years. My hedge fund buddies that are listeners always want me to mention that he was not. He's not a successful businessman, actually. He did well. And then he's richer than both of us.

[Peter Hamby]

He's a rich dude.

[Tim Miller]

He's crushing me. He's crushing me. But I think if he entered the podcast space, he'd probably be lower than 34th in the rankings, but he's crushing me in the investment space for sure.

[Peter Hamby]

You should get Scaramucci and Bill Cohan on this pod from Puck, my colleague, and just, like, do a taxonomy of different MAGA hedge fund types. I think you'd have a lot of fun.

[Tim Miller]

I'm not a big mooch, man, but maybe we'll think about it. I do love Bill Cohan. It's the best guess you have on your pod. Back to the Tulsi firings, though. We got distracted. So she was an extreme. She's going overboard to please Mr. Trump.

[Peter Hamby]

Yes.

[Tim Miller]

So that stipulated. I mean, it's pretty bad. Just the substance of the move is pretty alarming. Right. The two people inside the government could just put out an intelligence document that just states what the facts are and there can't.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, I mean, it reminds me a little bit of the Iraq war run up. You know, just like you sideline pieces of analysis that don't comport with whatever narrative you want. But it's worse than that because, like, this is after all of the. All of the reckoning between all the intelligence departments before the Iraq war. So, like, theoretically, you know, theoretically, our intelligence community should move in harmony. And the, you know, National Intelligence Council is part of the odni. And, like, it is. It's like the cbo. You know, it is like an independent scoring agency that does like, independent analysis. And, you know, this is tied to Stephen Miller and Habeas Corpus and Trend Agua, too. But I don't know, it's just. I don't know what I'm supposed to say on the Bulwark podcast about this. It's just your real thoughts that the independent agency that's supposed to give independent sort of sanguine analysis about intelligence threats can say Trend Agua is not being directed by the Maduro regime. And, like, at the very least, we don't see them as, like, a terrorist threat. And you just shit can those people because it doesn't comport with what Mr. Trump wants. I have a whole nother spiel about, like, the whole, like, habeas corpus, Stephen Miller thing. Like, they're. They're deporting people. Obviously, you've been very hot on this.

[Tim Miller]

Let's hear it.

[Peter Hamby]

But the thing that really grates on me about, like, the idea of going around judges and suspending habeas corpus is like, it's the claim that there's an invasion or a threat to public safety and that judges are slowing down efforts to push back against said invasion and threats to public safety. Like what the Trump people are doing at the border is working like it is. Like, the border apprehensions in March were 7,000. Like, there were like 250,000, like, border apprehensions when Biden was president. Like, he told people to come here. Like, it was bad. Democrats were bad. And, like, talking about the border. And on top of that, like, they'll probably deport half a million people this year. That's not like a million like Donald Trump promised. But just by using the tools at their disposal with law enforcement, by using these sort of, you know, gross deterrent of that El Salvador prison. Like, these things are sort of working to keep immigration down. Obviously, like criminal aliens, as they say, exist in this country. They're less likely to commit violent crime and murders than any U.S. citizen. I think the Cato Institute did a study on this. There's not really great data, but they did a study in Texas, and they found that, like, a couple of years ago, there were 60 total, like, homicides committed by, quote, unquote, illegal aliens. And it represented, like, 0.2% of, like, total homicides in the state of Texas over whichever time period they were measuring. Another note just on this, like, going back to Kristi Noem, they talk a lot about fentanyl. Like Pam Bondi's stupid thing. Like, we've, like, stopped enough fentanyl to, like, prevent the killing of 200 million U.S. citizens. As if 200 million U.S. citizens are, like, buying Percocet and Xanax on, like, the Internet and, like, taking pills. Like, it's the dumbest math ever. Something called Molly. I think that's what she said in the press conference. But like, Biden's efforts, Snapchat's efforts, by the way, are part of this. Like, there's been a big public education campaign around fake pills. Fentanyl and deaths have gone down a lot in the last four years. It's still too high. Young men are getting killed at higher rates from this than other groups. But, like, it's. It's gone down in every single state. Fentanyl. And we have to give credit for Joe Biden to that. Like, DHS tried to make Trump responsible for this, but because of something he said or did in, like, 2017. But like, the last four years under Biden, Fentanyl deaths have really gone down in every state except for one. Tim, do you want to know which state it is?

[Tim Miller]

Alabama, South Dakota.

[Peter Hamby]

Kristi Noem, S.D. state where fentanyl deaths were up last year.

[Tim Miller]

Last year before, it's been the Canada.

[Peter Hamby]

Trafficking that has maybe it has a lot to do, I think actually with the native reservations there and that sort of drug problems they find. But like still, like she's the director of Homeland Security, her home state is the, is the only state while she was governor where fentanyl does rob anyway, blah, blah, blah, blah. Back to the intelligence, back to trend to agua, back to Stephen Miller. Like you don't they say the courts are slowing them down. Like maybe the courts are stopping them from doing flagrantly unconstitutional things, but like their efforts, like their like deterrent efforts are working to stop the flow of migrants into the United States, period.

[Tim Miller]

Well, this is a fundamental conundrum that like nobody likes to hear because it is, it relates to both Biden successes and what has happened successes of the border with Trump so far in the first couple months here. And nobody likes to be like, hey, great job, everybody. That's very unpopular opinion on the Internet. But not only is fentanyl down, not only is illegal immigration down too much, actually, in my view we should, like, technically a healthy America should have more than 7,000 intercessions at the border because there's a lot of jobs that undocumented migrants do that are very important for our economy. And this is going to become a problem for us in the medium term. But anyway, I'll set that aside. But you know what else is down? Crime. Violent crime is down. Violent crime was down a ton last year and the Republicans tried to make that not a thing and say that the FBI was juicing the data. But like, no matter how you look at it, I was just talking to this guy who's a real crime data expert here in New Orleans, and he's like, you look at like most of the major cities, not every major city, like you've seen violent crime down huge, particularly in New Orleans, but he was looking at other cities too. And like that's just like reality. So, like all this stuff is down and so the Trump administration wants to take credit for that, even though two thirds of it, 3/4 of it happened during Biden. But also say that we're in a crisis in an emergency that requires us suspending habeas corpus so that Stephen Miller can deport 19 year olds who were brought here when they were four and haven't done anything, were falsely accused of not turning on their right turn signal. That is the juggle here. And they're able to do that because in their little echo chamber, like that conflict doesn't break through. Maybe you can try to break it through with Scott Jennings Tonight. Like, which is like, we cannot be in a crisis and have things be going very well. Like those two things. Don't, don't, don't, can't, coexist. But they do coexist in the fox ecosystem.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, yeah, no, you're exactly right. I'll bring that up tonight.

[Tim Miller]

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[Peter Hamby]

I mean, stepping back, I'd prefer that Trump and J.D. vance don't spend their time attacking the Vatican and the new Pope. But you know, they did the old Pope. So it's annoying. I mean, I am pro new pope, pro Leo. I went to Georgetown. You went to gw. Like, both of us grew up Catholic. I went to a Jesuit university and despite not going to Jesuit high school.

[Tim Miller]

For me, I love the Jesuits. But I had had enough of them after four years and I walked into Georgetown and saw the little amdg, you know, kind of iconography around and I was like, guys, I need a little, I need a break for this. They probably also wouldn't have let me in. But that's for, that's for.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, yeah. No, I. You would have absolutely been waitlisted. I got in. So just want people to know that you Went to my safety school. Gw Just kidding.

[Tim Miller]

Ray's hot.

[Peter Hamby]

You know, I will say, you know, the Jesuits would probably be one of the most progressive orders of the priesthood. I learned so much. We had to take a class called the Problem of God at Georgetown. It was a forced requirement, like a theology class. And, like, look, like, the thing that annoys me about JD Vance is he's a smart guy, but, like, he's smart in the way, like, a podcaster is smart, like us. You know, you kind of Google facts here and there and, like, pretend you're an intellectual. I don't know if he has, like, a coherent, like, theological worldview. I just don't. I know he, like, sort of tweets and posts about it and had, like, a moody blog spot back in the day.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I mean, I don't. Nothing against converts, a lot of good converse out there, but he's also fake. In addition to all this, like, he's had three names, you know, kind of four names, really. He's changed his name several. He changed his name in his mid-20s. He said several different religions. He's had several different political ideologies. Just, like it's hard to take it seriously. It's hard to take being lectured by somebody about Ordo Amoris seriously when they're on their fourth name and second, religion and third, political ideology in their early 40s.

[Peter Hamby]

The best takedown of the Ordo Amoris tweet that JD Vance put out in February actually comes from a Jesuit publication that I will admit, Tim. I actually subscribed at home to America magazine.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, wow.

[Peter Hamby]

While I lived in D.C. it's sort of a, you know, just Jesuit magazine. And they. They basically write about the world through, you know, Catholic lens. This is kind of JVL territory, maybe, but I think there might be a.

[Tim Miller]

Little lid for him.

[Peter Hamby]

He basically wrote, like, this guy. Steven Pope is a professor of theological ethics at Boston College. I don't know what IQ score JD Vance would bestow upon him. Seems like a pretty smart guy. But he wrote a very good takedown of the Ordo Morris thing back in February, and it's basically what I agree with. Like, the way J.D. vance was talking about Ordo Morris was that, you know, it's like zero sum. Like, you can either love your family and your neighbors first to the exclusion of loving, you know, a larger community, or the suffering and the oppressed. And basically, like, this guy Stephen Pope wrote a very good, thoughtful, not, like, snarky D.C. kind of takedown of what J.D. van said. And he said, quote, this amounts to little more than window dressing for a cramped self interested in group morality. That falls drastically short of the account of the order of Love proposed by Aquinas and expanded by Catholic social teachings. The other thing he pointed out, which is really fucking obvious, is that Aquinas was not thinking about states and borders and immigration policy, like, when he wrote that shit back in, like, the 13th century. Like, the state of Italy, where Thomas Aquinas is from, like, didn't even become a country until 1860, 1861, you know, and so there are, like. I don't know, it's just. It's just so stupid, like, like, him cherry picking this stuff.

[Tim Miller]

13Th century. That's a good poll. I was like, is that right? And I just googled it here, like a podcaster, and you are correct, 13th century. That's true. I just. I love the jebbies, man. They're great. We have a sponsor, the Jesuit Refugee Services was a sponsor for a little while supporting their refugee efforts. And so I encourage people to. To go support that if they're looking for something to donate to. We're just going to go through a bunch of other stuff here. Have you ever seen, you see that meme that goes around? It's not really a meme, it's a story. It's a woman who posted that her dad, like, meets with his buddies at a bar in Wisconsin once a week, and they have, like, an agenda, and she tweets out the agenda. We're going to kind of do that for the rest of the podcast because I have an agenda of other topics with you. I want to just stick through it. The reconciliation is the first one. Big, beautiful bill. Things aren't looking that great. I mean, my prior is still that eventually they'll figure out how to squeeze it through just because it would be so. I mean, like, it'd be unbelievable for them to not be able to pass a single thing and that Trump's only priority doesn't get through and then the Trump tax cuts expire. It's just, like, really hard to imagine that scenario coming to pass. And yet they're supposed to be doing the first step in this process today. Without getting into too much Hill jargon, but Chip Roy has been saying he's against it because there's too much debt. Ralph Norman just came on right before he came out and said he's a. No, he's a weird guy that was like, pro insurrection, but then supported Nikki Haley in the primary. So he's an interesting character. You can get Into Ralph Norman if you want. But then there's the other side of the group, which is kind of the California, New York, New Jersey Republicans who are upset about the salt deduction. I did a big rant about that on the next level this week. They're against it because it isn't doing enough.

[Peter Hamby]

Are you pro salt or anti salt?

[Tim Miller]

Me? Yeah. I don't give a fuck about salt, which is the appropriate position about salt. And my rant was like, I just can't imagine that Mike Lawler is going to be sitting in his rocking chair in his 80s, looking and having his grandkid come by and say, you know what Papa really fought for, you know, back in the Trump years, You know, the one thing that I really fought for, the state and local tax deduction. That's the thing. That's the thing that was really the deal breaker for me anyway.

[Peter Hamby]

I'm pro salt deduction out here in California. I get that though.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sure you are down here in Louisiana with my low taxes. I'm like, I don't give a fuck if you guys get to deduct it. I also just don't really. I don't care about the salt deduction is really. And I think the appropriate position for people to have about the salt deduction is not caring. So there's a group of people that are basically preventing. They have a very narrow majority and they can't get it through. So you got some colleagues at Puck who follow this kind of more closely than us. What's your take on the state of affairs?

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, no, I mean, two seat majority in the House. Mike Johnson, the Speaker obviously tries to project confidence about getting this through. But yeah, I mean, my colleagues Abby Livingston and Leanne Caldwell at Puck are great. Please follow them. But they've informed my thinking on this. But there's also the fact that we've been through these things before and I think you're right to say they'll probably get something done. Like I went back and looked at and this is the reason, like they have to get something done this year, I think is that narrow majority. If you go back and look at the Inflation Reduction act, what was that? Was that build back better? Well, it was originally something else.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

Build back better, yes. You know, it took, I think they introduced it in like, like summer 2021 and they didn't. Biden didn't sign that thing till November of 2022. Like it took like 14, 15 months. And like part of that was the mansion sort of stuff. Like these things Take forever.

[Tim Miller]

They also were doing other stuff simultaneously. In fairness, it's a little different than this. They're doing infrastructure and the gun bill and stuff, and these guys have, like, done nothing.

[Peter Hamby]

And by the way, those things were passed with. With a few Republican votes. Too bipartisan. Bipartisan. This will not be bipartisan. You also, you know, get to the Senate. And Jake. Jake and Anna at Punchbowl were smart on this the other day. Like, as much confidence as Mike Johnson is projecting, it's like, we're gonna get this done, and the Senate's gonna do it. Like, Jake Sherman on his podcast was like, no, they're not. Like, it's the Senate. Like, Ron Johnson the other day was like, we're not. We're not gonna pass this bill. You know, they've got their own rules. They got the bird rule. There are no salt deduction. Republicans in the Senate, by the way. So, like, if they do put salt in the House bill, it might die in the Senate. And it's just going to take a long time to reconcile these two bills. But, like, right now, like, Mike Johnson stills to get it through budget, get it through rules, get it passed on a floor vote, and you've got people like Ralph Norman, like, saying, now we're good. Like, I don't know. I don't think this is going to get done before next week, which is what they want, right? They want this done before Memorial Day. I mean, maybe something will get done, but I do eventually think there will be some bill that gets through. I just don't know if it's gonna have all the goodies that everyone wants. But that's how the sausage gets made.

[Tim Miller]

It's uglier than I thought that. Do you agree with that? It's, like, a little bit. I just figured because it's the only thing. My prior was that my prior is always like, these guys can't do anything. They're a clusterfuck. And yet they have to do one thing. It's extending the Trump tax cuts. And, like, people just get on board. And so it's been kind of surprising how many have been like, no, actually, yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

My colleague Abby Livingston said we did a podcast about this for my podcast a few weeks ago, and she's written about this, like, we all kind of think that Mike Johnson is, like, notionally a good speaker because he was the choice after they cycled through all the McCarthy drama. Right? Like, he's been speaker for, like, 18 months. Like, oh, wow, he's surviving. But she was pointing out that there are Some voices and not just the Ralph Normans and the, you know, Chip Roy's in, in the House who, like, don't see him as like a super capable leader. Like, he basically. And I'm, I might be butchering Abby's words here, but he defers everything to these committees and then kind of waits till the last minute, you know, rides the lightning. Hopefully Donald Trump makes some phone calls, he does the whipping. Like he's the one who's going to call and strong arm people to vote for the bill and Trump will, and then, you know, maybe it'll skate through and Mike Johnson will get credit. But he's not. Like, no one thinks Kevin McCarthy was like the president of Mensa and like some brilliant policy mind. But like, you know, Paul Ryan and Boehner would be like, either in there muscling through like, and whipping votes or like tweaking policy and like being on the phone with members of the Senate at the same time and the White House if they had it.

[Tim Miller]

And like, no one's trying to survive in here.

[Peter Hamby]

He's trying to keep everybody absolutely just trying to survive.

[Tim Miller]

Pop, Pop, what did you do when we were sending people to the concentration camps in El Salvador? I laid down the line on the salt deduction.

[Peter Hamby]

Little Oakley, if you're a Lawler, by.

[Tim Miller]

The way, don't you worry about Oakley. I stood up to Trump. I know you're reading about him in school and how he tried an insurrection and put people in concentration camps, but what I did was I said, no, sir.

[Peter Hamby]

Did Mike Lawler name his not support.

[Tim Miller]

Your tax cuts unless it includes a state and local tax deduction for upper middle class earners in North New Jersey.

[Peter Hamby]

In your imagination, is Mike Lawler's hypothetical grandchild named after Charles Oakley?

[Tim Miller]

No, it's like Oakley. O, a K, L, E, I, G, H. Very popular name down here in the south now.

[Peter Hamby]

Oh, that sounds like one of those, like, Utah Mormon names.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. No, not like Charles Oakley. That'd be pretty cool, though. That'd be pretty cool though. Jaden, don't you, don't you worry your pop up stood strong for that salt deduction. It's the only thing I cared about a little.

[Peter Hamby]

So there's a list.

[Tim Miller]

Salt on it.

[Peter Hamby]

There's a list, actually, that went viral the other day of the most Republican and Democratic children's Oakley was on.

[Tim Miller]

Did you see this Republican list? I did. That's where I got it.

[Peter Hamby]

Oh, got it, got it.

[Tim Miller]

I got you.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah. Like, Cohen with a K is a very popular boy name for a Baby K O H E N. Baylor, Stetson. Great SEC quarterback name as we know. Kyson, K Y S O N. Trip, which is great southern name because you could do it in two syllables like Parker Posey. Trip, come over here, come and get your dinner. Trip Sutton. Sutton, same name. Briggs.

[Tim Miller]

Sutton was one of my attorneys.

[Peter Hamby]

If you name your kid Briggs, he is not graduated from college. Cohen, Gunner. You hear? Gunner's like a vintage, like Utah name. And then Baker Cohen is going to.

[Tim Miller]

Be so proud of Pop Pop for standing up for that.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, Oakley is number three on the girl names for Republicans.

[Tim Miller]

Want to make sure you get that deduction in. That's the thing to fight for if you get into public service. Okay, I want to talk about the Democrats. Boy, you do a story this week about a poll about the Democrats and people don't like them very much. I don't know. Okay, I'm going to be. Let me give you the contrarian view here because on the face view which you wrote about, which we'll hear from, is that like, boy, the Democrats are fucking unpopular. This is insane how unpopular they are. They're way more unpopular than Trump and that's bad. I can be more unpopular than Trump and there's certainly something to be said for that. But part of like the reason in our polarized age that you start to get bad numbers is when people that like are already for you are saying they don't like you. Right? Like it's when people like that's how W's numbers started to get bad. It's like when Republicans started to be like, fuck you, I don't like this. Right. And so the Democrats, I feel like their numbers are bad, but the problem feels kind of fixable because there's like a low hanging fruit group of people out there who want to like them. They're just not being given anything to like. What do you make of that? Counter, counterpoint or do you think it's just a total disaster and they need major changes?

[Peter Hamby]

Oh, I think it's the latter. I mean I, maybe it's because I live in the universe of like, like thinking a lot about like Gen Z and younger voters. I know you do too. You've got your pod with Cameron. You know that generation thinks both parties are terrible. Even the young people, young men who voted for Trump, like I wouldn't say they moved, right. I would say they moved away from the Democratic Party, am toward Trump. But right now they've also left Donald Trump because they don't like think he's doing any of the right things on the economy, man, it's like I've been to like high info, that's the word. Like msnbc, Pod, Save America listening audiences. Like, I went to a Rokhana event. One of those things he did out here in California in a Republican district when the Doge stuff was happening, right? The kind of people who protest at Tesla dealerships and like they. People lined up to scream at him and he did a good job, bro, but it was kind of just like public therapy and there's that.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I guess that's my point. I think there's some underlying issues that are greater. But just really quick on that group, that type of person you're talking about, this is my point. Like those people are going to come around. Like they're venting. They've lost. They've just lost to Trump again. The second time they're fucking pissed. They think the Democrats are pussies. But eventually they're like, there's no really underlying weakness there. There are some other groups that there's some real underlying issues with, I think. I guess that was one.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one is the cut. This is. You're like Katie, you like cut me out before I finish my thought. So Katie catching straights.

[Tim Miller]

She's nine months pregnant, okay? You, you leave her, you leave her be. She can cut you off whenever she damn well pleases.

[Peter Hamby]

And I let her, I let her there. But there are. Katie's a good example, you know, not like Katie is Democrat and like a lot. We have lots of friends out here in blue Los Angeles who are Democrats, who are college educated people who after the last election, you know, by the way, they like were exhausted by the first Trump term. Lived through Biden, weren't in love with Biden, but glad he was there. And then after the slack selection aren't tuning out completely. You know, they're not like these academics fleeing to Canada, but they're just like not.

[Tim Miller]

Can I interrupt you on this one? Yeah, fuck you. If you're fucking university professor and you're going to Canada, okay, If you have serious concerns, if you have your wife or husband or kid are not full citizens or student visa or something, you need to flee, fine. If you love Toronto and you want to go there, great. Toronto seems great to me. But if you're going to go there because you're scared of Donald Trump and you're a US citizen who works at Yale, please, there are a lot of police and you're going to go to the New York Times and talk about how br, please. There are a lot of people out there who have real fears. Not US Citizens who work for Yale and have teams of lawyers that would help them.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, Ben Rhodes had a great post about this on Wednesday. You don't have to be an expert to know that we need people to stay in this country to oppose fascism instead of writing op EDS about leaving it.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you, Ben.

[Peter Hamby]

Ben, by the way, is a good voice of moral clarity. I feel like I don't.

[Tim Miller]

I need to be on the podcast.

[Peter Hamby]

You do. He's good on the topics that you care about a lot. So anyway, not like you have the people who graduated college who vote in every Democratic election. Probably more like the former camp we just talked about, but they're not paying attention right now. They're kind of apathetic. They don't care. They don't like the party. I do think those people will come around, but they need someone to grab them and like, get them to care. And maybe that doesn't happen until 2027 when the primaries start. And you've got new leaders shaping new messages. And you've got the sort of subgroups that Donald Trump did well with last year and by the way, not doing well with them now. But you have the young men. You have, you know, some black men, Latino men. Like, you know, in Georgia, like Kamal only won Latinos by Latinos total by like 12 points. Right. Like, there are different subgroups and they are the, they are the. I know. Rob Flaherty called them the kind of opt out voter, like in that New York Times op ed a few weeks ago. I mean, they think Democrats are just, you know, you use the P word like total pussies. Like, we did a word cloud with Echelon for this, this piece I wrote this week that you mentioned. Let me pull it up. And it's like, it's so bad. We asked all likely voters, Puck and Echelon Insights, just to say the first word that comes to mind when you think of the Democratic Party. The top answers, Tim, were liberal, weak, corrupt, and liars. Okay, Those are all voters, so that includes the independents that Democrats probably need to pull back.

[Tim Miller]

Includes the people watching Newsmax.

[Peter Hamby]

It includes them, too. Yes. But then you go to the first word that comes to mind when Democrats think of the Democratic Party. So we're asking Dem and dem leaners what they think. Weak, fair, liberal, good. But then you also have ineffective, disorganized. And then there's other sort of like hippie, dippy things like equality, hopeful, democracy, caring. But you also Some words pop up in here and it's like spineless, you know, passive, confused. Like, these are big words that Democrats are saying, by the way. This is one little example. I don't know what a Democrat. What do you think they would have said in, you know, 2014 about the Democrats? You know, would. It probably would have been better. But I'm trying to imagine like, what's. What would be different because you get a lot of the base people in there saying Democrats are weak. But I was interested to hear Democrats call themselves liberal. I don't know. Thought that was kind of interesting. Like, I think the party is grappling with the fact that they are perceived as too far to the left. Like, that's a real thing. That's why Gavin Newsom is sort of like nakedly pivoting to the right or to the middle, depending on your perspective.

[Tim Miller]

I want to get to the Gavin thing because I actually, because you've been covering this very closely. But just really quick on Biden, since it's wrapped up in all this, I like, can't even. I don't even want to talk about Joe Biden anymore. I just like me so upset. And I've said everything. Everyone listens to this, knows what I think about Biden. But we have a good article today from Steve Shaley, who's a Florida, Florida guy from Duval county who was with Biden back in 2016. Loves Biden, likes the Biden Political project, likes him personally, is Biden y and his temperament and ideology across the board. This is not an inner circle person who hung out with Biden at his beach house. But it's also not just like some hired hand, like it was somebody who's there early. He wrote exclusively for the Bulwark, basically saying pleading frankly, in a kind way with Joe Biden to stop trying to defend his legacy. It's not helping and that he's not saying he should just go away, which is what I think. But Steve is saying that he should meet with union guys and go to places around the world where he had there was some policy that he cared about. The USAID used to do. Go just do stuff that shows that he cares about people rather than a media tour that shows that he cares about his legacy. I thought it was a very smart piece of advice. I hope the former president takes it. But I just want kind of an open opportunity for you to weigh in on that piece or anything else about the Biden and the Tapper book or any related issue.

[Peter Hamby]

I'm glad Steve wrote that for you guys, Steve's a friend of mine, too. I worked with him on a story I wrote recently about these focus groups that, you know, Unite the Country is a super pac. He ran for Biden. Not the main one, but they have some leftover funds. And Steve is very much interested in figuring out why. Not just places like, you know, Michigan and Pennsylvania flip to Trump, but the states that he won with Obama. Right. Like Florida, Iowa, Ohio. Like, especially with, like, the new census, like, it's going to get harder and harder for Democrats to win the Electoral College. And so Steve is very interested in listening to people rather than a lot of people on Twitter who are just yelling at people. I agree that he shouldn't go in the View. I think Joe Biden, it's not just that, like, Democrats want him to go away. You know, they don't want to see his face like any unpopular former president who just lost, you know, go off into the sunset. But, like, it's. That it's not helping him either. You know, every time he. This happened when he was in the throes of being, like, dragged out of the race after, you know, thanks to you, Tim. No, I'm just kidding. After the debate, you know, don't blame me as George. He did that, like, NATO presser. And the first thing out of his mouth was he confused Putin and Zelensky. Like, it just. And like. And then he did, like, a tour de force or whatever. Like the Biden people were saying. It's just he's not good. He trailed off. He's never been a good communicator. Even before the quote, unquote, decline. We've known that there's the number one thing people thought about Joe Biden. Right. They thought two things, actually. Scranton Joe, compassionate guy was the Onion meme that he would, like, be working on his Trans Am in the White House driveway. Like, that kind of went away and then. But the other thing was, like, gaffes, like, he just talks too much, whatever. And then it got worse.

[Tim Miller]

So, yeah, I mean, Indian thing, guy thing that was like, goes back 20 years. Yeah, I watched your interview with him. You posted it because you're like, you know, people are like, oh, the media didn't talk about this. The media talked about it. You interviewed him, asked about his age five years ago, I guess. And I went and watched that clip. And if you watch that clip, a, he just looks unbelievably better than he does now, which is just natural again, but that's just reality. You have to realize it. But even in that clip where he looked better, he still had some. Like, he was still Biden, like he was still stumbling over things sometimes. And, you know.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, no, I agree. The thing that was interesting that Steve wrote that you mentioned is I hadn't thought about him. And he doesn't need to take the media along. Right. Like, go. Go back to your roots, you know, like, maybe go hang out in some communities and talk to people and listen to people or go find an issue you care about. But, like going on the View or, you know, BBC, like, I don't know. I don't get it. I don't get it.

[Tim Miller]

All right, over to Gavin. So the past, the future, 2028. I just wrote down here what is happening with Gavin. You've actually talked to him and got to spend some time with him lately. And I have. I mean, I guess.

[Peter Hamby]

No, I haven't talked to him, Talked to people around him.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, got it.

[Peter Hamby]

But I haven't spent time with him.

[Tim Miller]

I thought you've talked to Gavin.

[Peter Hamby]

But I live out here, so I see him every day.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you're seeing a lot more Gavin than me, I guess. I saw this news item come across. It said, breaking news. Governor Gavin Newsom will call for California to scale back health care for undocumented immigrants to help balance its budget. I'm for balanced budgets, so I don't know enough about the details of this proposal to weigh in on it one way or the other as a policy. It is very notable, though, as a political move like that is not a headline that Gavin Newsom's team would have wanted to be pushing out in 2019 or 2023 for that matter. Even if they were kind of doing that, they would try to shade it so that it was. So it felt more, I don't know, humanitarian or whatever. Yeah, there's a series of issues. There's this. And then with the Charlie Kirk thing, he's pivoting on the trans sports. And so I don't know, I'm less interested in your view or. Because who cares, whatever, what all of our opinion is on each individual issue. But, like, what is the politics? What's happening is he is intentionally moving to the middle, do you think? Or is. Is that overstating it or.

[Peter Hamby]

No, no, I think it's. It's interesting. I. And I talked to our mutual friend James Carville about this the other day, and he was like, it's interesting. Like, just macro level, you've got, like, Donald Trump moving left on certain issues which you might disagree with, or at least taking Taking up the former Democrats former stronghold spaces. Ideologically, you know, I don't agree with that.

[Tim Miller]

Donald Trump is extremely heterodox. It's like it's hard for people to ratchet in their head like he's a fascist. But he also takes like random positions that are more left. Like he does both.

[Peter Hamby]

Right. But then Carville is like, it's interesting that you have that. And then you also have Gavin Newsom moving to the right. And I think he kind of is. It's hard for him because he won represents California to has now taken positions that he's flip flopping on as he moves back to the right. I look, I think let's talk about medical and then the trans thing. Those are two of the biggest. When you think about what Newsom said recently. By the way, I'm one of the few people that thinks the Gavin Newsom podcast was good. Rarely in media do you see a space where two people of completely different universes come together for a long form. Conversation doesn't happen. And like the very fact that he was attacked by very online liberals for doing it to me means he's doing something right. Because those people have been wrong way too many times. So like, I get that. Whatever. I think he handled the Charlie Kirk thing a little poorly. But like, go back, watch the Bannon interview. I thought it was pretty good.

[Tim Miller]

He has fallen below me in the ratings. I'll say, oh, he was beating me for a while, but he's fallen below.

[Peter Hamby]

So basically what's happening out here in California, Tim, is we're looking up on a big budget shortfall out here. And so Newsom is basically saying that he's going to freeze enrollments for immigrants without legal status and basically it's going to save the state, in his words, like $5 billion. There's like he. But he started this program in 2023. So, you know, people who illegal immigrants who are already enrolled in Medi Cal get to keep it, but he's going to cap enrollment for new ones and make them pay premiums. And so this isn't like Keir Starmer in the uk. I sent this to you the other day, basically saying you got to speak English before you can come to the uk which is like a big immigration move and a big pivot from a, you know, a neoliberal party.

[Tim Miller]

Well, the United Kingdom is different than the United States.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, but. Well, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you're right. We obviously have many Spanish speaking people here a lot. Soon to be the majority, probably in this country. But.

[Tim Miller]

And we're not a blood and soil country with a fucking king and queen. I mean, even the libs there are happy with their monarchy. So, you know, it's just a little bit.

[Peter Hamby]

Okay, okay, that's a good. That's a good check on what I was.

[Tim Miller]

No kings. No kings here in America. So June 14th protest.

[Peter Hamby]

It's hard to look at that. And he's blaming, by. He's blaming the budget drop off on what he's calling the Trump slump. And he's sort of saying like the tariffs are impacting the budget, which is not. No, like, basically he was saying like capital gains are going to be lower because the markets are down. It's like that doesn't impact the current budget. Like it's a little mealy mouth what he's doing. But it seems all under the umbrella of pivoting toward a more pragmatic approach to campaigning and governing and getting away from, you know, lat Latinx and youth transports and like the things that are bad for Democrats on the culture front. The problem with Gavin is it seems, but this might work in his favor if he runs. But like, it seems so obvious and transactional. So looked at one way, it's like obvious flip flops trying to shed the liberal California thing as he pivots to South Carolina and New Hampshire or whatever. Michigan. The flip side is Democrats need someone who will say any fucking thing to win, who will do anything to win, who, like, looks like a president. Like, he's not. He's not like Mr. Retail. Like he can be a little awkward in person and with the media and he does those hand gestures like, you watch his videos enough. It's like a little awkward and stilted. But you know, he's willing to throw a punch and willing to do what it takes to win elections. And you know, that falls under the just win baby category of the James Carville philosophy.

[Tim Miller]

I have a bold idea for him though.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

I just think that the best thing that he could do would be to govern better. And like, I think that like a lot of this stuff is trans. Like you're doing the podcast and this could be totally wrong, by the way. I don't know. But that's just my. Would be. My advice is like the podcast and we're doing these pivots and it's like the other story. I brought this up with Justin.

[Peter Hamby]

Can I just say something? Like, people, let me just say something because I live here and I see more local news. Like, everyone assumes California is dragged down by crime and homelessness. And it certainly would be a liability if you ran for president. But like in la, for example, you've got all these overlapping interests. We talked about this on the podcast I did with you about the fires. It's like you've got the county and.

[Tim Miller]

The city really quick on the fires and you can go. This is what I was going to say. Seven new permits. They've done seven new building permits so far in Altadena and Pacific Palisades and whatever the other one is. That seems not. Not enough.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

You know, and I do just wonder.

[Peter Hamby]

He's invested more in wildfire response and resilience than any previous California governor. They've passed gun laws, they've passed abortion protections. Yeah, it's California. But then there's other like, interesting things that he's done. For example, he passed a law where rappers could not be charged for crimes based on lyrics in their songs. Right. This is what this is with the like young thug trial in, in Georgia, like Fonny Willis, the D.A. one of the big parts of their case against him and Gunna was like you said in your song that you capped that guy.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Peter Hamby]

And that is what we're using as evidence for that guy being capped. Newsom passed a law based, because it is a specious connection. Newsom passed law blocking that. He capped tailpipe emissions in California. You know, like every other state in the country follows what California does because we're the biggest like auto consumer market. And so, you know, put aside, you know, electric cars, capping tailpipe emissions, like basically implementing standards there is going to influence, you know, carbon output for a long time to come. Not perfect, but the, the guy, because it is a one party state, has passed so many interesting laws. Some might be too liberal, some like. But I just do think he has some. He's a smart guy and it would be silly to just reduce him to the California liberal.

[Tim Miller]

I think California forever. I was hoping you were to give a liberal defense of California, Peter, and put me back in my former free market Republican box where I'm criticizing the mismanagement of your blue paradise. We're going long. It's fine. It's a Rogan podcast, but I got a few more things on the agenda here, so let's kind of keep it snappy for people. Do you think Kamala Harris is going to run for governor of your state?

[Peter Hamby]

Man, what was the Philippe Ryan's quote that he gave to the New York Times? Long time ago. Can you hear me sighing? So here's the thing, like I Don't currently don't think she can win the presidency. She's run twice and lost. I don't think Democrats hate her, but I don't think they're passionate for her. Like, look at polls, national polls of Democrats. She's at 30%. People like, oh, she's the front nurse. She's going to win. That means 70% of Democrats want someone else. That's what I see when I look at that poll. Because of the budget issues I just mentioned, being governor of California is going to be a shitty job for the next four to eight years. And again, as we have learned with her over the years, she is a prosecutor. She's, she's always better being, like, running the office than being like a consensus builder in a deliberative body, I think. But, you know, she can win in California. And I think politicians generally need to think about what job do you want rather than what job do you think you should have. Like, that seems to be a better approach to anyone in life. The wild card is not running for anything. You know, go to the Met gala, start a think tank. But, like, politicians aren't built that way. It's hard to step away. I don't know. I mean, I think, yeah, I don't know. I don't have an answer for that. I, I, I, she would, she's not a sure thing in California, by the way. It depends how deferential these other Democrats are. Like, does Katie Porter get out of the race if she gets in? Because, you know, again, like her, she's the universal name idea out here among Democrats. And, you know, I've seen some polling that shows, again, not beloved. I don't know who would beat her, but I'm saying it could be closer than people think. But I think it's more gettable than the Democratic nomination in the presidency. What do you think?

[Tim Miller]

I like Kamala. I like, I genuinely like, Yeah, I like her too. I like Kamala. I just like. And we're not friends, but as a friend, I would tell her to not run for president again. I think it would be very painful. So I don't. The governor's race, I'd be, Can you.

[Peter Hamby]

Can you expand on that for listeners?

[Tim Miller]

I just think it would remind me of, you know, I'm trying to think of, like, a past campaign for, like, Fred Thompson's campaign, kind of, you know, like somebody who is just like your best days, first day. Not really that dissimilar from Jeb's campaign, really. And our campaign was kind of sad, but it Was Jeb that, like, it's a little different because she had already run for president. And it's just, I think that, like, I don't know, what about Dan Quayle's campaign for president? Like, you've been vice president and then you finished seventh in the Iowa caucus. Like, those are sad days, you know, driving to, driving to Portsmouth to show up to an event with 13 people at it when you're in sixth place behind, you know, Raphael Warnock and Pete and whoever else best. I don't know, like, whatever. Any, like literally any new person that comes in.

[Peter Hamby]

Well, if you think about, if you think about Hillary before Trump, like, different time, different era. But it's like Hillary ran the first time, had that slugfest with Obama worked out well. She became Secretary of State and then she was next in line. And, you know, and Shale writes in his Bulwark piece about how he encouraged Biden to run in 2016. Whatever. But everyone was afraid to run against Hillary, despite the evidence being there that she was vulnerable. No one would be afraid to run against Kamala this time. Like, no one. It's going to be a big field. Maybe Beto jumps in.

[Tim Miller]

I don't think. I don't think she should do it. I had Andrew Egger, my colleague, on. We were talking about the porn bands. He had some harsh things to say about the barstool bros. This is another one of your beats the manosphere. And I felt like you had some point. We wanted to make some points, contrast Egger, who was lamenting the Democrats might need to, you know, pander more to the Ovon podcast listeners. So I just wanted to hear what your counterpoint was on that.

[Peter Hamby]

Look, Andrew is a good reporter. Listen, it just, it gave me. It's sort of like the John Fetterman take, which I agreed with, which is that just the first step here is stop calling them bros. You know, like, there's an air of condescension.

[Tim Miller]

I call you bro.

[Peter Hamby]

You are my bro. Yeah, you are my bro.

[Tim Miller]

What should we call him? What am I supposed to call Theof on? He's not a bro.

[Peter Hamby]

I'm not the Ivan. I'm talking about like, like a 22 year old black guy in Cleveland who commutes to school and works two jobs, who voted for Donald Trump. Like, like, this is the, this is the thing. There's a category error in Washington. Multiple. When they talk about the bro vote. Like, again, this is me. This is me.

[Tim Miller]

I just don't. This is where my Republican comes in. I don't like the lib view. It's too many times my biggest complaint about listener feedback. It's like, Tim, you shouldn't say this word. You should say that word. Whatever.

[Peter Hamby]

Put that aside, Put that aside. Put that aside. That's just my personal thing. But here's the thing. Andrew and others, other reporters. What's that meme of the New York Times guy who like, was stroking his chin interviewing Pete Buttigieg? What's like, what was that?

[Tim Miller]

What was that guy's name? Oh, it's like Pete. He's the same guy that said that LSU shouldn't. Is shameful that LSU gave the students the day off to celebrate the national championship when they won the national championship in football and said that, you know, attacked institutes of higher learning.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, it's. Fuck. What was that guy's name? We gotta look this up. New York Times editorial writer, beard, bread prices. This is so funny. I just. Oh, oh, Benjamin Applebaum or Benjamin Applebaum. Okay, so I'll start over here.

[Tim Miller]

Benjamin Applebaum. Not a bro.

[Peter Hamby]

Benjamin Apple. Not a bro. But embodies this sort of journalistic type. As you know, New York Times is a perfect hub for these people where they haven't. This is not necessarily Andrew, because he's been outside the beltway.

[Tim Miller]

I was gonna say Andrew is catching a fucking.

[Peter Hamby]

No, no, no, no. Sorry. Compared to Benjamin, Andrew said a phrase that like, oh, it sucks that the smooth brained barstool bros are the people that are going to determine politics for the coming, like elections, generations, whatever. Like that's such an oversimplification of young men in this country of all races, classes and backgrounds. And some of this I'm stealing from John Della Volpe at Harvard. But like, there are different categories of young men. Yes, there are barstool bros who like Portnoy and like gambling on sports and like crypto and like the stock market. Great. But they're also like progressive on social issues. They just want to hang out. Then there's like, over here, there's like the Charlie Kirk people who are the MAGA red hats. Okay. And then over here are the kind of, of young, young men who like didn't go to college. White, black, Latino, who are working class, maybe they go to community college. They don't think about politics at all.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Peter Hamby]

You know, but they did last year. Think about the price of meat and think about the price of gas and think about the interest rate they're carrying on their credit card and thinking about healthcare. These are all people I met during my college tour last year that I Texted you about all the time. So, like, there are all these different kinds of young men. The bigger picture, I think is that, that, you know, Democrats haven't been welcoming to young men. They just haven't since the Obama years. Like, think about the institutions in our culture, Tim, that are say, look at a young man and say, hey, come on in, let's hang out. It's the Republican Party. It's churches, it's gaming and online communities and it's sports and everywhere else. It's like, you know, you can't. The thing that I liked about the Pete Buttigieg interview on Andrew Schultz, it wasn't just that he liked, went in there and did a 10 minute interview. And this in fairness, like, I don't. I think men can do this since it would be impossible for a woman to go on Andrew Schultz and do the same thing. And that doesn't say anything about women. They're just different spaces and different kinds of people.

[Tim Miller]

Well, because Andrew, just a better point on this, the Andrew Schultz, it is, it is specifically branded as like the man, the man cave. Like, that's what it is. Like, this is a place where guys can go and talk about guys. Stuff.

[Peter Hamby]

Stuff.

[Tim Miller]

And so that's why it's not. That is why it would be more challenging for a woman to go into that. Because that is like, what the. Like that's the whole conceit, you know, of the show.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, and that was the point of my piece was that's a place where people. Shane Gillis's podcast is the same way. Like, no one thinks Shane Gillis is like, going to Trump rallies and like, like rooting for deportations. He's just a dude who likes to hang out and talk about like sports and farts and girls and history and like for three hours. And like, there's not a lot of Democrats who can go hang out for three hours. And Andrew Schultz, by the way, like, I know you did like, don't like him, but like, I watched that Pete thing twice through and him and his co hosts all asked very reasonable, thoughtful questions about the world and the Democratic Party. And everyone just sort of sneers at these people. Like Benjamin Applebaum at the New York Times, like, stroking his chin like, oh, wow, interesting. Like, people need to like, stop thinking about young men. Like they're going on safari in Africa and like interviewing different people and like taking pictures of them and pointing at them. Like, go spend time. Not in like the diners, dude. Like, go to fucking Colorado. Go to Cincinnati. Like, go to fucking New Orleans, like, talk to people.

[Tim Miller]

This. I don't.

[Peter Hamby]

I don't know.

[Tim Miller]

I agree with. I don't agree with one part, which is I do think that, like, for some reason, like, young men and magas are, like, the only people that get to be fragile anymore. It's just like. It's like, if I make fun of Andrew Schultz, I'm sneering at him. But if Andrew Schultz spends the whole pod making fun of fucking trans people, and it's like, whatever, you know, it's like, okay, that's not sneering. They can take. They give shit. They can take shit. I guess that's my only place. I disagree. They can take.

[Peter Hamby]

Here's something Democrats. Here's something Democrats need to grapple with. The biggest demographic outlier in American politics isn't young men. It's not Trump people. It's young Gen Z women who are so far to the left. Steve Kornacki did a whole thing about this the other last month. They are so far to the left and away from the median voter that they're the outliers. Young men are way closer to the median voter on public opinion, on approval rating about Donald Trump, on various issues. Like, there's old. There's Gen Z men, Gen Z women. Like, millennial men, millennial women, Gen X, whatever. Like, young women are over here. And, like, young men are, like, here, like Democrats. The problem, the challenge for them is they've got to appease these folks in Greenpoint while also pulling back these people in Raleigh who, like, sure think these people are too liberal and, like, it's just really fucking hard right now. But we need to acknowledge that, like, the problem isn't just, like, young men, like, young women who live on the Internet.

[Tim Miller]

I just don't want them to be such fucking snowflakes. Like, I can make fun of them and have it not be like, oh, with. Oh, they're sneering at.

[Peter Hamby]

Well, no, but I did agree with your point.

[Tim Miller]

Who sneers more than Andrew Schultz and Shane? Shane Kulitz's whole shtick is sneering at people like, that's fine. That's okay. It's just like, oh, but he can't be sneered at.

[Peter Hamby]

I think he's. I think he sneers less.

[Tim Miller]

What? He sneers. It's just in his own way. It's just in his own way, he makes fun of people. Barstool.

[Peter Hamby]

But even barstool, like, people think like, barstool is a bunch of, like, Republican fascists. Like, have you listened to a barstool podcast.

[Tim Miller]

Well, so this is my point. This is the point where I agree with you. I just, like, I'm just like, like, we don't have to be so gentle with them. But, like, part of the problem is that who's staffing the Democratic campaign? So a lot of the young women who are very far to the left and a lot of gays. Like, let's just be honest, like, that's just who's on the staff. And so, like, it would be helpful for the Democrats to have staff that are more closer to the median voter.

[Peter Hamby]

This is. I hope I know that you have these same conversations, but when I met you in 2011, like, if I, if I 2010, maybe if I, like, went to Ted Strickland's campaign in Ohio, back when Ohio was competitive and hung out with, like, Liz and like, her staff. Lily was, Lily was on that staff, too. There were straight guys who could talk about sports and hang out. And like, that's not, that's not, like, essential. But I see so many, and I hear this from staffers, men, gay men, straight men, women. Like, I've seen campaign offices for Democrats running for office now, now House Senate gov. It is women and gay men.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, they're super diverse.

[Peter Hamby]

And like, that's, that's the basic party. And, and like, they aren't. One, there's two problems here. One, if you're a comm staffer, you want to impress your boss. And what does your boss do? Your boss watches msnbc, so you go on msnbc. Two, like, if you do listen to podcasts in different spaces, like, here's one. Come Town.

[Tim Miller]

Great job.

[Peter Hamby]

Democrats should definitely go on Come Town. Yeah, like with Stav. But like, imagine going up to like, you know, and being like, we booked you on Come Town.

[Tim Miller]

Alyssa. Alyssa, I booked you for 90 minutes on Cometown. Okay. We're going to have a couple of topics.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah. And then the other thing, too is like, Hassan, who lives out here in la, is a weightlifting bro like me. He could. We'll see who can deadlift more. Probably him. I think I can bench more anymore. But, you know, he's a leftist and so he is good in these spaces. But Alyssa Slotkin's ever going to go on there and talk about Israel. Not that she needs to, but like, some, like, even Stavi, like, he's more of a Bernie Bro than establishment Democrat. At the same time, he's a really good and funny messenger against Donald Trump. But he also hosted a podcast called Cometown. So it's hard for the straight Laced nerds who staff Democratic campaigns and don't play fantasy football to get their bosses into these spaces.

[Tim Miller]

Alyssa Slotkin, we'll see you on Cometown. Okay. This is like, so long. Everyone's gonna freak out when they see the length. But me and Peter. Me and Peter haven't got to hang out. We used to live in the same state. We don't get to hang out. So this is where we're hanging out. I have three more topics. We have a maximum of four minutes on each topic. Maximum of four minutes. Okay, behave. I want you to listen to. I told you I had to do dystopia. I was flipping through TikTok talk, and Gary V, who's somebody you like to. You like to comment on, who's a tech influencer, was commenting on the future of AI and I was like, I need Peter to listen to this. And so I'm surprising you with it. Let's.

[Peter Hamby]

I need Scott Conroy here to listen to this with us.

[Tim Miller]

Let's listen. Predictions that your grandkids will marry an AI human.

[Peter Hamby]

What's your conviction level on that? 100% that they're going to marry an AI.

[Tim Miller]

Your grandchildren is going to marry an AI human. So this is what we've been talking about. I think people are going to have relationships, fully AI, boyfriend, girlfriends. I think it's going to be indistinguishable.

[Peter Hamby]

I believe a robot that is fully AI will marry a human and vice versa. For real, in your lifetime at scale. And. And when you say an AI, does that mean like a physical body of a robot? So you're saying that the bodies will get so good that it will look like you and like I could. I don't know if you know this, but people have sex. What Jack does.

[Tim Miller]

Then the physical part happens. So what is this going to do to society if we're all just like.

[Peter Hamby]

I've been thinking about that a lot, which is like, does a couple introduce Just like real couples introduce swinging and another partner.

[Tim Miller]

Now, is it even better to introduce.

[Peter Hamby]

An AI robot that may help whatever or emotional things are going on in that relationship to become an offsetting contributor to America? One could argue this was going to be my second.

[Tim Miller]

We're going to have a troubles. Enough, Jason. Enough. Are you sure you want to have a child, Peter? This is what is happening. This is the future.

[Peter Hamby]

So I don't.

[Tim Miller]

Your child's child will marry an AI.

[Peter Hamby]

So Gary's. I don't agree with him that this will happen at scale, but you can obviously see some nerd like, or some person who's online a lot. We already see this. There's a show on Hulu that FX did called Social Studies that I'm watching and I should not be watching it before having a daughter. And it's a window into the lives of teenagers in Los Angeles and their digital lives. Like, we are already in relationships with robots and the younger generation is too. And there are apps that will create like AI girlfriends and boyfriends based on AI. Like that movie Her. That exists right now. It exists. People are in relationships. People have written about this. If you make that into some kind of anthropomorphic figure, I can see a lonely person, like doing that, marrying. I don't know if our states are going to be passing laws allowing that. I mean, Gary's wrong about marriage. It's going to be in the eye of the beholder. I think, by the way, I think he will say anything and do anything. He's the hustle, bro. King Gary. But it's not out of the realm of possibility in our lifetime.

[Tim Miller]

No, this is the anti human movement. I played that because it was funny, but I saw another clip. So for some reason the Chinese think I'm interested in AI futurism. I guess I kind of am, which is why the Chinese think that, because they know me. But like Sam Altman was doing a thing about how the. The 18 year olds are using a chatgpt. Not at all like you and me. Like, like it's not like a Google substitute. They're using it like as a life coach.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

And like, yeah. So the AI is just like, they're asking, hey, what should I do today? What should I. What? Like, I have this problem with my girlfriend. What do you think? I have this, like, this is deeply alarming to me. Humans should go meet other humans. Like, and, and I find. And they should find friends to confide in. And I'm really concerned about this. Okay.

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah. So like, I know we have two minutes left here, but like, snap, we have my AI, which is a. Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

I created one myself. Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Hamby]

And so like you can get what concerts are in New Orleans right now. What's a good gift idea for my friend?

[Tim Miller]

That's Google though. That's Google.

[Peter Hamby]

That's what Google. No, no, it's a kind of yes, but it doesn't have like, we have controls where it's.

[Tim Miller]

I know. I just feel like the way that you're conceiving that is like, it's a replacement for a search. Like, give me a piece of information. Help me find that is different than like I'm feeling sad today. Will you be there for me and.

[Peter Hamby]

Sam Altman and Mark Zuckerberg want that world where you have fake friends that they can monetize because they put some like brand logo on their girlfriend's digital shirt. It's gross.

[Tim Miller]

It's very concerning. It's an anti human movement and I'm very annoyed about it. Okay, final two items. This is so important. If anybody made it to this, they're about to get the treat of a lifetime. I think you should quit both your jobs and go full time as an RFK impersonator because your RFK impersonation is the best on the marketplace and I just want you to give people a little taste. We're going to do. I want a straight minute. We'll put it up on TikTok and if it goes as viral as I think it will, you might have a new career.

[Peter Hamby]

Let's see, I got my collection of buttons back here. I'll put on my. Bobby, this is not rfkg.

[Tim Miller]

Bobby Senior. Yeah. Okay, Bobby, what's been happening today in Venice?

[Peter Hamby]

Well, Tim, I went to the Gold's Gym and I. Because I hurt my shoulders, shoulder pressing years ago, I injected myself with raw milk and beehive dust that I collected with space age vacuum that I imported from Malaysia. A friend of mine who is an old bear hunter friend recommended and I was at the Gold's Gym squatting and. And you know, I, I gotta get back to dcx. I shouldn't be talking to you, Tim.

[Tim Miller]

You shouldn't be talking to me. Are you, are you gonna be in trouble with Mr. Trump for the podcast?

[Peter Hamby]

Was that good or bad?

[Tim Miller]

Trouble with Mr. Trump that was really quite good at the beehive pollen.

[Peter Hamby]

I also got a rocky button back here. I got a majority for a silent Agnew button. I got lots of vintage pins.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know, Agnew was, was kind of the, the. What's the fucking phrase? The canary in the coal mine. Agno is a little bit of the canary. All right, final thing. It's not a question for you. You're done. I'm giving. Have I given you my new parent advice? You're gonna be a parent any day now.

[Peter Hamby]

Shocked. You haven't.

[Tim Miller]

I haven't. Right. There are three things or four things. Maybe they're all practical. Number one on that bookshelf, do you have any books back there about how to parent or like what to expect by week six?

[Peter Hamby]

Yeah, we got a lot of that. We Got lots of that.

[Tim Miller]

Throw them all in the fucking trash. They're horrible. You are a human with good eq. You will know what your child wants. Unless they have a very serious problem, then you should get a book. But if it's a child with just a regular crying a lot or whatever, we underfed our child for the first three days of her life. Because I was reading some book that's like, you get this many ounces of milk a day is what a kid wants. I asked the nurse, I was like, why is she crying so much? And they're just like, well, she's hungry still. I'm like, oh. It's like if the child is crying, they're hungry and so you should feed them. That's pretty simple. You don't need a book for that. And so the book actually is harmful. Throw the book away. Throw the books away. Don't read them. Number two, do not purchase. If you have already, do not purchase any more blankets. Everyone sends you blankets. I have no idea why it's the favorite gift everyone sends. If you're a gift giver and I have a friend having a first child, don't send them a blanket because we ended up up with so many. I still have them. I use them now to clean up spills around the house. Children's blankets. Number three. The thing that nobody tells you is from age three months to 10 months, it is an amazing time to travel with a baby. Nobody tells you this. I remember nobody tells you this, but it's like the baby sleeps all the time. If they're crying, you can feed them. You can keep them up late at night because they have the weird hours. So you can go out to a late dinner with the baby and just put it in the little bassinet next to you at the resort that you're at or at the city, New York. And we went on some vacations and Toulouse was out in New York.

[Peter Hamby]

We went to Slo with.

[Tim Miller]

She'd come out to the bar late at night around 10 months or 11 months through two years. It's very challenging because the kid cries on the plane and it's hard to calm them down because they don't have words yet. The period between baby and giving them an iPad is very challenging to fly. So you should maximize your trips. In that first year. What I noticed from a lot of new parents is they're like, okay, I'm getting my fucking sea legs. And we do our first trip nine months in, and it's like, no, wrong. Immediately go on vacations. Start planning your vacations. Now. I had a fourth piece of advice, but I forget what it is. Love that child, I guess. Is that. Just love that fucking little girl, that's all. Just love her. She'll be great. You're going to be a great dad, Peter. Do you have anything else for me?

[Peter Hamby]

Thank you. Thank you. I'll tell Katie. Make sure she listens to this, too. We'll bump you up to number 33 in the YouTube rankings. Yeah, we'll take the baby to. Let's see here. Arkansas, LSU, November 15th, maybe Texas A.

[Tim Miller]

And MLSU November 15th. That sounds great. We'll see you down here. Go Tigers. Go Nuggets. That's Peter Hamby. Check out his podcast on Puck or his Snapchat show on Snapchat and everybody else will be back here. Monday, it'll be Bill Crystal. It'll be a shorter show, but there'll be more references to Greek and Roman philosophers. So you'll enjoy that. We'll see you all then. Peace.

[Peter Hamby]

Later.

[Tim Miller]

Hero anyway Although I really like your sty I need a hero anyway Even though you change my mind Cuz I needed you yesterday But I guess you were don't need a hero anyway Although I really like your sty don't need a hero anyway Even though you changed my mind Cuz I hated you yesterday Let it get you out of mind.

[Peter Hamby]

Don'T give up for no one the s what?

[Tim Miller]

Don't need a hero anyway Although I really like your style don't need a hero anyway Even though you changed my mind Cuz I gave it you yesterday But I gave you a problem I needed you yesterday to run away from.

[Peter Hamby]

It don't run to.

[Tim Miller]

See that I'm on the way Want to tear me down oh wow don't need an ego anyway don't need an ego anyway I know you ain't come this far Just to go back to where you came from.

[Peter Hamby]

Don'T give up don't what we will be.

[Tim Miller]

And we make it free don't give up one cuz I love is free life what we will be and we may feel love the Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.