The Bulwark Podcast: S2 Ep1045 - Bill Kristol on "A New Gilded Age"

Release Date: May 19, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Tim Miller – Host
• Bill Kristol – Editor at Large, The Bulwark

1. Introduction

The episode opens with Tim Miller welcoming his guest, Bill Kristol. They quickly transition from a brief sports commentary on the Denver Nuggets’ loss to the pressing news of President Joe Biden’s prostate cancer diagnosis.

2. President Biden’s Prostate Cancer Diagnosis

Tim Miller introduces the topic by comparing the Nuggets' loss to the gravity of Biden's health news, framing it within the broader context of life's inherent challenges and the search for fulfillment despite inevitable struggles.

Key Points:

• Biden’s Diagnosis: Diagnosed with a high Gleason score of 9 prostate cancer with bone metastasis, indicating an aggressive form of the disease. However, it is hormone-sensitive, allowing for effective management.

  • Quote (07:25): “Joe Biden early decided to have a second term despite his medical condition. It was a mistake...”

• Personal Tragedy: Reflecting on Biden's personal losses, including the death of his son Beau, and how these experiences shape his leadership and legacy.

• Legacy Concerns: The discussion delves into the uncertainty surrounding Biden’s legacy, especially in light of his health issues and his presidency succeeding Trump.

  • Quote (11:00): “The legacy thing is hard to shape and obviously hard to control.”

Bill Kristol’s Insights: Kristol expresses empathy towards Biden’s situation while critiquing the administration's decision to pursue a second term despite potential health risks. He emphasizes the unpredictability of legacy and the importance of attempting to do the right thing for future generations.

3. Donald Trump’s Recent Actions and Implications

The conversation shifts to former President Donald Trump’s recent behavior, particularly his public confrontations with Disney and implications of corruption.

Key Points:

• Trump's Threats to Disney:

  • Trump accuses Disney’s CEO Bob Iger of not addressing fake news, referencing defamatory reporting about him.
    • Quote (17:00): “Why doesn't Chairman Bob Iger do something about ABC fake news...”

• Qatar’s Involvement: Discussing the alleged shakedown by Qatar involving the gifting of a private plane to Trump, highlighting the ethical and diplomatic concerns.

  • Quote (19:19): “It's madness that it's personal grift.”

• Impact on Businesses and Media: Kristol and Miller critique how Trump’s intimidation tactics are affecting media companies and businesses, arguing that these actions undermine democratic values and corporate integrity.

Bill Kristol’s Insights: Kristol underscores the detrimental effects of Trump’s tactics on business ethics and media accountability. He draws parallels to historical instances of corruption and emphasizes the long-term negative impact on America’s democratic institutions.

4. Economic Policy and Fiscal Responsibility

The discussion transitions to the current economic climate, focusing on fiscal policies, tax cuts, tariffs, and their implications for the U.S. economy.

Key Points:

• Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Critique of the Republicans' continuation of tax cuts for the rich amidst increasing deficits.

  • Quote (29:35): “It's funny how much that old argument... still linger.”

• Tariffs and Their Impact: Examination of the tariffs imposed, their effects on businesses like Walmart, and the overall economic strain on middle and lower-income Americans.

• Moody’s Downgrade: Analysis of Moody’s recent downgrade of the U.S. credit rating in the context of rising deficits and high-interest rates.

  • Quote (35:13): “We are in such bad shape...”

Bill Kristol’s Insights: Kristol argues that the current Republican fiscal policies are short-sighted and detrimental to long-term economic stability. He suggests that these policies will lead to increased debt and higher interest payments, ultimately harming the broader economy.

5. Conspiracy Theories and Media Responsibility

Tim Miller and Bill Kristol address the resurgence of conspiracy theories propagated by figures like Dan Bongino, especially surrounding events like Jeffrey Epstein’s death and the integrity of the 2020 election.

Key Points:

• Epstein Conspiracy Theories:

  • Dan Bongino dismisses the notion that Epstein killed himself, asserting he saw it as a suicide.
    • Quote (45:33): “He killed himself. Again, you want me to...”

• Assassination Attempts on Trump: Bongino and Cash attempt to deflect from factual events by insisting on unproven theories regarding assassination attempts linked to the "deep state."

• Impact on Public Discourse: Kristol criticizes these conspiracy theories for exploiting misinformation and spreading cynicism, which undermines public trust in institutions.

  • Quote (48:59): “You have like, a lot more impartial observers who said the 2020 election was not rigged.”

Bill Kristol’s Insights: Kristol emphasizes the irresponsible nature of promoting baseless conspiracy theories. He highlights the damage such rhetoric inflicts on democratic discourse and the importance of adhering to factual integrity.

6. U.S. Foreign Policy and International Relations

The podcast touches upon the Trump administration’s foreign policy decisions, particularly regarding AI chip exports to the UAE and the broader implications for U.S.-China relations.

Key Points:

• AI Chip Export to UAE:

  • Trump waives restrictions on exporting sensitive AI chips to the UAE, a move criticized for potentially enabling authoritarian surveillance technologies.
    • Quote (25:05): “Tom takes this very seriously. That, you know, AI stuff...”

• Impact on U.S.-China Relations: The decision may exacerbate tensions with China, given the UAE’s close ties with Chinese technology providers.

• Policy Critique: Both hosts express concerns over prioritizing economic gains over national security and ethical considerations.

Bill Kristol’s Insights: Kristol views the AI chip export as a reckless policy decision that compromises U.S. technological and national security. He warns of the long-term consequences of such agreements, particularly in empowering authoritarian regimes.

7. Immigration and Border Security

The episode briefly covers recent immigration issues, including the controversial entry of cartel leaders’ family members into the U.S. and the administration’s handling of border security.

Key Points:

• Cartel Leaders’ Family Entry: Mexico’s security chief confirmed that 17 family members of cartel leaders entered the U.S. as part of a deal, raising questions about the administration’s priorities and integrity.

  • Quote (41:10): “...17 family members of cartel leaders crossed into the U.S. last week as part of a deal...”

• Impact on Public Perception: The episode critiques the administration’s actions as favoring criminal entities over legitimate refugees, highlighting the ethical dilemmas in immigration policies.

Bill Kristol’s Insights: Kristol questions the rationale behind the administration’s decisions, suggesting corruption and favoritism towards powerful, yet unethical, entities. He underscores the need for transparent and just immigration practices.

8. Closing Remarks and Reactivity to Conspiracies

Tim Miller and Bill Kristol conclude the episode by reflecting on the state of American politics, the rise of conspiracy theories, and the need for responsible leadership.

Key Points:

• Responsibility of Public Officials: Emphasis on the importance of integrity and truthfulness in public discourse.

• Future Political Implications: Discussion on how current policies and leadership styles will shape future elections and America's democratic health.

Final Thoughts: The hosts express hope for a more informed and responsible political climate, urging listeners to remain vigilant against misinformation and authoritarian tendencies.

Notable Quotes:

• Tim Miller (02:00): “Life's a tragedy... the challenge is how we find some beauty and fulfillment in the process.”
• Bill Kristol (07:44): “You want to try to do the right thing and to take a long view of the right thing.”
• Dan Bongino (45:33): “He killed himself. Again, you want me to...”
• Bill Kristol (48:59): “You have like, a lot more impartial observers who said the 2020 election was not rigged.”

Conclusion

In this episode, Tim Miller and Bill Kristol engage in a comprehensive discourse on pressing political issues, from President Biden’s health and legacy to Donald Trump’s controversial actions and their broader implications for American democracy and global relations. The conversation underscores the tension between ethical governance and opportunistic politics, advocating for informed and responsible leadership in turbulent times.

Produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.