The Bulwark Podcast: S2 Ep1047 - Susan Glasser: American in Name Only
Release Date: May 21, 2025

Introduction and Guest Background

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller welcomes Susan Glasser, a distinguished staff writer at The New Yorker and co-author of The Divider: Trump in the White House, alongside her husband, Peter Baker, former Moscow bureau chief for The Washington Post. The conversation delves into Susan's recent observations from her trip to Estonia and broader analyses of current U.S. foreign policy under the Trump administration.

European Perspectives and the Trump-Putin Dynamic

Susan Glasser shares insights from her recent trip to Tallinn, Estonia, where she engaged with leaders from Estonia, Slovenia, and Finland. A significant focus was on Finland's President, Alex Stube, who serves as the European "Trump whisperer." Glasser explains:

"Alex Stube... has become a big proponent of the engage-Trump-wherever-possible school of European diplomacy. So it was very interesting to hear what he had to say."
(02:14)

Stube's strategy involves maintaining a close relationship with Trump, exemplified by a seven-hour golf session at Mar-a-Lago. However, this approach faces challenges, especially following Trump's contentious phone call with Vladimir Putin, which left European allies disillusioned:

"From my perspective, the rhetoric I'm hearing is tougher than in Trump's first term from the Europeans. They claim that they're more reality-based, but the vibe is still a bit of denial. They can't really believe it."
(04:55)

Glasser highlights the existential concerns of Eastern European countries whose security is intricately linked to U.S. support, particularly regarding NATO and the Ukraine conflict.

The Trump-Putin Call and Its Aftermath

The podcast delves into the repercussions of the Trump-Putin phone call, a topic Susan finds emblematic of Trump's flawed diplomatic approach. Referring to insights from the Financial Times, Glasser notes:

"Trump is pulling the US back from engaging with the conflict and leaving Ukraine and Russia to directly negotiate a ceasefire... He made no promise of future US sanctions against Russia."
(06:47)

She criticizes Trump's strategy, arguing that his personal agenda to reset U.S.-Russia relations undermines collective efforts to address the war in Ukraine:

"Trump has been pursuing since he entered political life. And I was really struck... 'there are two sides in these negotiations. There's a U.S.-Russia side and a Ukraine-European side.'"
(08:37)

Glasser contends that Trump's inability to grasp the broader geopolitical motivations of leaders like Putin exacerbates the conflict, as Trump’s transactional mindset fails to engage with deeper ideological and national security concerns.

Analyzing the Trump Foreign Policy Doctrine

A substantial portion of the discussion centers on what Susan and Tim term the "Trump Doctrine." Glasser articulates that Trump's approach lacks a coherent doctrine, instead reflecting extreme transactionalism and self-interest:

"Trump's foreign policy doctrine is not a doctrine at all, but a way of life defined by extreme transactionalism and self-interest."
(13:28)

She contrasts this with traditional U.S. foreign policy, which historically emphasized promoting democracy and maintaining strategic alliances. Glasser explains how Trump's prioritization of personal and immediate gains over long-term strategic goals diminishes America's influence and undermines global stability.

Further elaborating on Trump's transactional approach, Glasser points out its inadequacy in addressing complex geopolitical issues:

"Trump doesn't relate to any of that. He doesn't have any religious belief or deep ideological belief."
(25:36)

This superficial engagement fails to resonate with leaders who have deeper, more strategic motivations, leading to ineffective diplomacy and increased global tensions.

The Alien Enemies Act and Immigration Controversies

Transitioning to domestic issues, the podcast addresses alarming developments surrounding the Alien Enemies Act and immigration policies. Tim Miller criticizes Secretary Kristi Noem's misunderstanding of habeas corpus during a congressional testimony:

"Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people. I love Senator Maggie Hassan there. Excuse me, that's incorrect actually."
(36:33)

Susan Glasser expands on the severity of recent immigration actions, particularly the U.S. government's unauthorized detention and deportation of individuals to El Salvador without due process:

"They have been sent there in an open-ended way to rot in a prison in a foreign country that is not even in their own home with no process, no ability to ever get out as far as we're aware."
(40:00)

She emphasizes that such actions constitute a gross violation of American values and legal principles, highlighting the precariousness of the current administration's approach to immigration and human rights.

Integrity of the Intelligence Community Under Scrutiny

Glasser and Miller discuss recent scandals undermining the integrity of the U.S. Intelligence Community. They cite instances where intelligence assessments have been manipulated for political ends, particularly under the direction of DNI Tulsi Gabbard:

"It's a big scandal when they're like, you know, kind of implicit winks and nods... here they are. These folks don't even bother to hide the corruption."
(33:23)

Glasser criticizes the attempt to fabricate intelligence narratives to justify policy actions, such as the deportation of Venezuelans under false pretenses:

"This example really resonates for me because it just shows that fiction, but it also shows the lengths to which these folks are willing to go and also that they're not very bright."
(34:00)

She underscores the dangerous precedent set when intelligence agencies are coerced into producing misleading reports, thereby eroding trust in governmental institutions.

Political Repercussions and Institutional Failures

The conversation shifts to the broader political landscape, with Glasser expressing concern over the lack of effective opposition to Trump's actions within both the Democratic and Republican parties:

"Democrats haven't really gotten their act together... Republicans... are not willing to stand up for the institutional prerogatives of Congress."
(47:38)

She laments the inaction of Congress in checking executive overreach, suggesting that the reliance on judicial intervention leaves essential governance duties unfulfilled:

"Until Congress wakes up, we are a government that's out of control, in my view."
(48:44)

Glasser's critique highlights a bipartisan failure to uphold constitutional checks and balances, thereby exacerbating governmental dysfunction.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode concludes, Susan Glasser reflects on the dire state of U.S. foreign and domestic policy under the Trump administration, emphasizing the erosion of America's foundational values and international standing:

"Donald Trump believes it doesn't matter that the United States can partner with the world's worst tyrants, strongmen and killers, and that that's just fine and maybe we're just like them in the end."
(44:17)

She calls for a reawakening of democratic principles and institutional accountability to restore America's role as a bastion of freedom and justice both domestically and globally.

Notable Quotes

• Susan Glasser: "Trump's foreign policy doctrine is not a doctrine at all, but a way of life defined by extreme transactionalism and self-interest."
  (13:28)

• Susan Glasser: "We are a government that's not functioning the way our Constitution envisioned it."
  (48:44)

• Susan Glasser: "The idea that that's the overriding goal for him [Putin]. Putin's goal is to win the war, not to have war not happen in and of itself."
  (22:00)

Key Takeaways

1. Flawed Diplomacy: The Trump administration's transactional approach to foreign policy undermines long-term strategic goals and global stability.

2. Erosion of Institutional Integrity: Manipulation within the Intelligence Community and misuse of legal principles like the Alien Enemies Act reflect a departure from American democratic values.

3. Political Apathy: Both major political parties show a troubling lack of effective opposition to executive overreach, exacerbating governance issues.

4. Human Rights Violations: Unlawful detention and deportation of individuals without due process represent severe violations of human rights and American ideals.

5. Need for Institutional Accountability: Restoration of checks and balances through active Congressional oversight is essential to reclaim democratic governance and international respect.

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast provides a critical examination of the Trump administration's impact on both international relations and domestic policies, underscoring the urgent need for a recommitment to democratic principles and institutional integrity.