Podcast Summary: The Bulwark Podcast | S2 Ep1049: James Comey: Uncomfortably Numb

Release Date: May 23, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: James Comey, Former FBI Director and Author

Introduction

In Season 2, Episode 1049 of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a candid and insightful conversation with James Comey, the former director of the FBI. The discussion delves into recent political developments, concerns about the FBI’s integrity under the Trump administration, Comey's new novel FDR Drive, and broader issues surrounding public corruption and the rule of law.

The Instagram Incident and Secret Service Involvement

James Comey begins by recounting a recent incident where a seemingly innocuous Instagram post led to unexpected scrutiny by the Secret Service.

Jim Comey [00:57]:
"We saw in the sand some numbers and spelled that in shells... I thought, man, I want no part of anything like that. So I took it down immediately and posted a little statement explaining why I took it down."

Tim Miller probes further into the incident, expressing disbelief over the swift Secret Service response to what was perceived as a non-threatening post.

Tim Miller [05:16]:
"This is fucking insane. Like, you posted a picture of seashells and you got driven into the Secret Service headquarters to get questioned. Did you feel like you needed a lawyer?"

Comey maintains his composure, emphasizing the professionalism of the Secret Service agents he interacted with and expressing uncertainty about the motivations behind the investigation.

Jim Comey [05:42]:
"They acted like professionals. They were going through their normal interview they do when anyone's alleged there's a threat... But I can't speak."

Concerns About the FBI Under the Trump Administration

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the state of the FBI and other federal agencies under the Trump administration. Tim Miller presents a litany of investigations targeting Democratic figures and institutions, suggesting a politicization of federal law enforcement.

Tim Miller [07:35]:
"Letitia James, Andrew Cuomo, Lamonica McIver, Kamala Harris, Bruce Springsteen, Beyonce, Bono, Oprah Winfrey... all have been threatened with legal action by this administration."

James Comey concurs, highlighting the misuse of investigative powers to target political adversaries and the erosion of institutional integrity.

Jim Comey [08:07]:
"They are taking actions based on who's on what team going after the President's enemies. That's poison for confidence in justice institutions."

He further elaborates on the historical importance of maintaining the FBI’s independence, contrasting the current state with the legacy built post-Hoover.

Jim Comey [20:01]:
"We spent 50 years after Hoover died trying to build an FBI that stood apart... Now, if you're not trusted, you can't do the work."

Impact on FBI Personnel and Organizational Health

The discussion shifts to the internal atmosphere within the FBI, where Comey describes a state of numbness and survival among agents following forced departures and leadership changes.

Jim Comey [13:45]:
"They've entered a kind of numb stage... trying to keep their heads down and do the work."

Tim Miller expresses alarm over the lack of healthy organizational dynamics, noting the reluctance of agents to seek attention or engage leadership, which Comey agrees is indicative of unhealthy leadership practices.

Jim Comey [14:53]:
"It is not a healthy leadership style."

Shifting Priorities and Misallocation of Resources

Tim Miller raises concerns about the FBI’s shift in focus from traditional priorities like counterterrorism and counterintelligence to areas such as immigration enforcement and election fraud.

Jim Comey [16:21]:
"How you move lots of people to immigration... mystifies me because I assume that terrorism and counterintelligence are still at the top of the stack."

This misalignment, Comey suggests, undermines the rigorous threat prioritization processes previously upheld by the bureau.

Jim Comey [17:49]:
"If Congress is going to wink and nod because you're protecting the border, I guess... the rigor of the threat review process has been thrown over."

Public Corruption and High-Profile Cases

The conversation touches on various instances of public corruption, with Comey recalling some of the most egregious cases he encountered during his tenure.

Jim Comey [30:03]:
"One involving Congressman William Jefferson... stacks of cash in his freezer."

He also critiques the Trump administration's blatant disregard for norms, exemplified by extravagant fundraising events perceived as bribery.

Jim Comey [28:45]:
"At the heart of every public corruption investigation is proof... But with Donald Trump, he robs banks without a mask."

Book Discussion: FDR Drive

**Coming from his role as an author, Comey discusses his latest novel, FDR Drive, a political thriller inspired by real-world tensions and his professional experiences.

Jim Comey [38:45]:
"It's a story about a right-wing podcaster... trying to motivate his followers to engage in acts of violence."

He outlines the book’s exploration of the fine line between free speech and incitement to violence, emphasizing the challenges faced by law enforcement in such scenarios.

Jim Comey [39:09]:
"It's about policing this line, which is really important between speech and crime."

Personal Insights and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Comey shares personal anecdotes that highlight his resilience and commitment to public service, despite facing widespread criticism and hostility.

Jim Comey [32:52]:
"I'm married to a trained marriage and family therapist, thank God. So I have in-house help."

He reflects on the importance of maintaining personal well-being amidst public scrutiny and remains steadfast in his dedication to upholding the rule of law.

Jim Comey [33:31]:
"You can only do your best and let the chips fall to that end."

Final Thoughts and Concerns

In concluding the discussion, Comey expresses deep concerns about potential economic crises and the diminishing focus on critical national security threats.

Jim Comey [48:41]:
"I'm worried about an economic catastrophe... and the terrorism threat and the counterintelligence threat... we are at the top of the FBI stack for a reason."

He underscores the necessity of vigilance and adherence to institutional priorities to prevent catastrophic outcomes.

Notable Quotes

• James Comey [08:07]:
  "They are taking actions based on who's on what team going after the President's enemies. That's poison for confidence in justice institutions."

• James Comey [20:01]:
  "We spent 50 years after Hoover died trying to build an FBI that stood apart... Now, if you're not trusted, you can't do the work."

• James Comey [38:45]:
  "It's a story about a right-wing podcaster... trying to motivate his followers to engage in acts of violence."

• James Comey [48:41]:
  "I'm worried about an economic catastrophe... and the terrorism threat and the counterintelligence threat... we are at the top of the FBI stack for a reason."

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a profound examination of the current state of federal law enforcement, the challenges faced by institutions like the FBI under political pressures, and the personal and professional resilience of figures like James Comey. Through his reflections and insights, Comey underscores the critical importance of maintaining institutional integrity and the rule of law in turbulent political landscapes.

This summary aims to provide a comprehensive overview of the episode for those who have not listened, capturing the essence of the discussions and the key points raised by both Tim Miller and James Comey.