Summary of "The Bulwark Podcast" Episode S2 Ep1050: Bill Kristol: Something Worth Fighting For

Release Date: May 26, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Bill Kristol

1. Memorial Day Reflections

Timestamp: 00:13 - 05:46

The episode opens with Tim Miller welcoming Bill Kristol for an abbreviated Memorial Day edition of "The Bulwark Podcast." The conversation begins with light-hearted banter about grandkids' involvement in baseball and softball tournaments, highlighting the challenges of juggling busy schedules.

Tim Miller transitions to discussing the significance of Memorial Day, aiming to infuse the holiday with deeper meaning beyond typical political discourse. He references Oliver Wendell Holmes' 19th-century speech, emphasizing the importance of fighting for a greater purpose:

Tim Miller (03:03): "Oliver Wendell Holmes... celebrates and solemnly reaffirms... our belief that to act with enthusiasm and faith is the condition of acting greatly."

Bill Kristol echoes these sentiments, reflecting on the melancholy aspect of Memorial Day in the context of recent wars. He notes the difficulty in honoring those who have died in conflicts that may not have been successful, such as Vietnam and Afghanistan:

Bill Kristol (03:43): "I do feel like maybe it's always had this melancholy aspect. How could it not? You're honoring those who died."

2. Neoconservative Foreign Policy vs. Trump's Approach

Timestamp: 05:46 - 07:10

Tim Miller contrasts traditional neoconservative foreign policy with former President Donald Trump's rhetoric. He argues that neoconservative ideals focus on fighting for something greater than mere national interests, providing a sense of purpose even in the face of failure. In contrast, he criticizes Trump for what he perceives as a lack of a higher purpose behind military actions:

Tim Miller (05:46): "...we're fighting for a goal that is greater than just mercantilistic American financial interests."

Bill Kristol responds by reaffirming his support for the "Freedom Agenda," suggesting that Trump's policies have underscored the importance of these foundational principles:

Bill Kristol (05:55): "I'm more convinced of the merits in principle of... the Freedom Agenda as a fundamental principle for this country."

3. Critique of Trump's Speech at West Point

Timestamp: 08:45 - 15:46

The discussion shifts to former President Trump's recent speech at the West Point graduation. Tim Miller criticizes Trump's appearance and message, describing it as inappropriate and narcissistic. He highlights Trump's use of a MAGA hat and his offhand remarks about "trophy wives," contrasting it with President Biden's respectful gesture of shaking each cadet's hand:

Bill Kristol (09:07): "The MAGA hat... speaking to cadets on their graduation, it's so unbelievably inappropriate."

Bill Kristol further dissects Trump's speech, pointing out the lack of a substantive message and the president's failure to address critical issues like Vladimir Putin's aggression directly. He suggests that Trump's comments reflect a shallow understanding of international relations:

Bill Kristol (09:34): "It's grotesque and narcissistic... They are horrible... enabling and colluding of so many thousands."

4. US Policy on Ukraine and Criticism of Republican Leadership

Timestamp: 15:46 - 29:58

Tim Miller and Bill Kristol delve into the United States' foreign policy regarding the Ukraine conflict. They express frustration with Republican leaders, particularly Senator John Thune, for abandoning support for Ukraine. Miller accuses Thune of "carrying water for Tulsi Gabbard and abandoning Zelenskyy," criticizing his lack of action despite his pro-Ukraine stance in the past.

Tim Miller (25:04): "John Thune carried water for Tulsi Gabbard and has abandoned Zelenskyy in Ukraine."

Bill Kristol emphasizes the dire need for continued support to Ukraine amidst escalating Russian aggression. He criticizes the passivity of elected officials and laments the inadequate legislative responses to aid Ukraine:

Bill Kristol (17:50): "One of them was in the White House, but I guess, you know, you just complain about the one."

5. Analysis of Current Congressional Bills and Tech Community's Criticism

Timestamp: 21:08 - 29:58

The conversation shifts to the scrutiny of a current bill in Congress, with input from tech influencers like Chamath Palihapitiya. Chamath criticizes the bill for its potential to spike energy prices, undermine AI development, and increase Medicare costs. Tim Miller highlights the bipartisan concern over the bill's financial implications:

Chamath Palihapitiya (23:30): "You're going to see energy prices spike... this thing is an albatross."

Bill Kristol agrees, labeling the bill as another example of reckless Republican fiscal policy exacerbating economic challenges:

Bill Kristol (27:10): "This is just another stupid Republican bill that cuts taxes predictably and doesn't cut spend."

Tim Miller underscores the urgency of addressing the bill's negative impacts, particularly on interest rates and economic stability:

Tim Miller (27:59): "It is already raising interest rates... it's going to keep pushing interest rates higher, which has an impact on everybody."

The duo concludes by expressing skepticism regarding Senator Thune's willingness to take a stronger stance against the bill, emphasizing the need for leadership that prioritizes national interests over partisan gains.

6. Conclusion and Final Remarks

Timestamp: 29:58 - 30:05

As Memorial Day approaches, Tim Miller wraps up the discussion, expressing hope for future policy changes and thanking Bill Kristol for his insights. The episode concludes with production credits, excluding any additional advertisements or non-content segments.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Tim Miller (03:03): "Oliver Wendell Holmes... celebrates and solemnly reaffirms... our belief that to act with enthusiasm and faith is the condition of acting greatly."

• Bill Kristol (05:55): "I'm more convinced of the merits in principle of... the Freedom Agenda as a fundamental principle for this country."

• Bill Kristol (09:07): "The MAGA hat... speaking to cadets on their graduation, it's so unbelievably inappropriate."

• Tim Miller (25:04): "John Thune carried water for Tulsi Gabbard and has abandoned Zelenskyy in Ukraine."

• Chamath Palihapitiya (23:30): "You're going to see energy prices spike... this thing is an albatross."

• Bill Kristol (27:10): "This is just another stupid Republican bill that cuts taxes predictably and doesn't cut spend."

This episode of "The Bulwark Podcast" offers a critical examination of current political dynamics, focusing on Memorial Day's deeper significance, the contrast between neoconservative and Trump's foreign policies, and the pressing issues surrounding U.S. support for Ukraine. Bill Kristol and Tim Miller provide insightful analysis, advocating for policies rooted in freedom and purposeful action, while candidly critiquing contemporary political leadership and legislative shortcomings.