The Bulwark Podcast: A Deep Dive into the Attack on Knowledge

Episode: S2 Ep1054: Adam Serwer, Lauren Egan, and Justin Jones: The Attack on Knowledge
Release Date: May 30, 2025
Hosts/Guests: Tim Miller (Host), Adam Serwer (Writer at The Atlantic), Lauren Egan, Justin Jones

Introduction and Guest Spotlight

The episode kicks off with host Tim Miller welcoming listeners and setting the stage for an engaging discussion on the Trump administration's assault on knowledge and democratic institutions. Adam Serwer, a writer at The Atlantic and author of The Cruelty Is the Point, joins as the primary guest to delve into these pressing issues.

The Trump Administration’s Assault on Knowledge

Adam Serwer introduces his latest piece, "The Dark Age," which scrutinizes the Trump administration's systematic efforts to undermine knowledge-producing institutions. He states:

"Every field that involves gathering knowledge, the Trump administration is trying to defund or impose a stifling, you know, we could use the phrase political correctness on any kind of scientific, historical, cultural inquiry."
(14:45)

Serwer highlights how the administration has targeted studies on discrimination, climate change, pollution, and historical narratives, aiming to control the ideological landscape. This suppression, he argues, is not just about halting progress but about reshaping societal understanding to align with authoritarian objectives.

Elon Musk’s Influence and the Weakening of Democratic Institutions

The conversation shifts to Elon Musk's role as a shadow president and his impact on governmental structures. Adam Serwer criticizes Musk's unaccountable power:

"To have someone who... was not elected, who was not appointed in any, like, Senate confirmed way, who was exercising all this authority to alter the structure of American government in a way that Congress did not authorize and the American people did not vote for."
(04:25)

Serwer underscores the dangers of immense wealth and influence allowing individuals to manipulate government functions without democratic oversight, highlighting a critical vulnerability in the U.S. political system.

Mass Deportations as Demographic Engineering

Tim Miller brings up recent deportation actions, particularly the deportation of Venezuelans to El Salvador, raising ethical concerns about due process and human rights. Adam Serwer responds by framing these actions as deliberate demographic engineering:

"Trump's mass deportation project is actually a demographic engineering project... they're focusing resources on taking out people who are gainfully employed and who have functionally assimilated."
(10:47)

Serwer explains that the administration's actions are less about criminality and more about manipulating the demographic composition, reflecting underlying eugenic ideologies aimed at maintaining a specific societal structure.

The Erosion of Knowledge and the Proliferation of Misinformation

The discussion also touches on the intersection of technology, AI, and the spread of misinformation. Serwer expresses concern over how social media and AI exacerbate the destruction of factual knowledge:

"People will stop accepting scientific conclusions because their brains are so cooked by the stuff that they're seeing on social media."
(21:09)

He warns that the combination of authoritarian policies and advanced technologies could lead to a society where truth becomes increasingly elusive, endangering democratic accountability and informed decision-making.

Lauren Egan and Justin Jones: Ground-Level Perspectives from Tennessee

The second segment features Lauren Egan and Justin Jones, local Democratic figures from Tennessee, discussing recent ICE raids and the broader implications for immigrant communities. Lauren Egan addresses the unlawful nature of these raids:

"What the ICE and Tennessee Highway Patrol are doing to our immigrant neighbors is unlawful."
(40:03)

She condemns the mistreatment and lack of due process for immigrants, drawing parallels to historical injustices and emphasizing the moral duty to resist such authoritarian measures.

Justin Jones adds to the discussion by highlighting the strategic challenges Democrats face in the predominantly Republican South:

"How screwed are Democrats? ... We have to go to territory that is not always comfortable, that it's not always familiar to us."
(44:55)

Jones advocates for aggressive coalition-building and community engagement to counteract Republican dominance, emphasizing the need to connect with diverse and rural voters to broaden the Democratic base.

Building a New Democratic Coalition

Lauren Egan elaborates on strategies to transform political dynamics in Tennessee:

"What we have to do is that we have to go to territory that is not always comfortable, that it's not always familiar to us... We have to go there and let them know that we're fighting for them."
(50:36)

She discusses the importance of defeating harmful legislation, such as bills granting immunity to corporations like Monsanto, and stresses the necessity of authentic, grassroots campaigning to win over skeptical voters.

The Role of Personal Charisma and Authenticity in Politics

Both Serwer and the Tennessee representatives touch upon the significance of personal charisma and authenticity in modern politics. Serwer reflects on Trump's ability to bond people through shared antagonism:

"When you look back to Obama in 2012... he had an ability of redirecting or responding in a way that was extraordinarily effective."
(36:04)

They agree that genuine connection and emotional investment are crucial for political movements to gain and maintain support, suggesting that Democrats need similar attributes to energize their base and attract new voters.

Conclusion: The Path Forward

The episode concludes with a call to action from Lauren Egan and Justin Jones, emphasizing resilience and proactive engagement:

"We're building a circle larger than they can even keep us out, and that we're going to bring some of their folks in."
(56:17)

They express optimism for future elections, believing that sustained effort in community organizing and inclusive politics will eventually shift the balance in favor of Democrats, not just in Tennessee but nationally.

Notable Quotes

• Adam Serwer on authoritarianism:

  "It's totalitarian. You're allowed to think and say what the government allows you to think and say."
  (19:03)

• Lauren Egan on coalition building:

  "We have to go there and let them know that we're fighting for them."
  (50:36)

• Justin Jones on Democratic strategies:

  "How screwed are Democrats? ... We have to go to territory that is not always comfortable, that it's not always familiar to us."
  (44:55)

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast offers a comprehensive examination of the current threats to knowledge and democratic institutions, blending high-level analysis with ground-level political strategies. Through insightful discussions with Adam Serwer, Lauren Egan, and Justin Jones, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the challenges facing liberal democracy and the proactive measures necessary to counteract authoritarian tendencies.

Produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.