The Bulwark Podcast: "Sam Stein: This Is the Country They Want"
Release Date: July 3, 2025

Introduction and Guest

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller welcomes Sam Stein as an emergency substitute guest due to the absence of their favorite guest. Stein, the managing editor of The Bulwark and editor of Bill Kristol's Morning Shots newsletter, shares his reflections on his role and the evolution of his relationship with Kristol.

Key Political News and Reactions

The discussion kicks off with timely political news:

• Diddy’s Acquittal: The episode opens with the news that rapper Diddy was acquitted of racketeering and sex trafficking charges. Tim mentions, "[Sam] was staying up to watch it," highlighting the significance of this event (02:00).

• Republican House Members’ Stance: Republicans initially show resistance to a crucial vote regarding a bill, with figures like Mike Johnson expressing a firm stance: "We are going to hold out on this vote for the rule to proceed" (06:01). However, ultimately, all members yielded, allowing the bill to pass.

Analysis of Republican Behaviors and Legislative Process

Stein and Miller delve into the inconsistency within Republican actions:

• Red Lines and Broken Promises: Stein criticizes Republicans for setting “red lines” that they ultimately ignore, exemplified by representatives like Don Bacon and David Valadao. He states, “They just continue to draw lines in the sand that they know they're just going to flagrantly violate” (07:27).

• Case Study: Brian Fitzpatrick: Stein highlights Representative Brian Fitzpatrick’s principled stance against the bill, where Fitzpatrick authored a letter opposing the withholding of defense materials to Ukraine as part of the bill’s passage. Stein remarks, “He could have walked out with my chest puffed after doing that” (16:46).

Immigration Policy and ICE Funding

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the implications of the current immigration bill:

• ICE Budget Surge: Stein points out the stark increase in ICE's funding, noting, “The ICE budget at 37.5 billion is greater than Israel's defense budget at 30.5 billion” (19:05).

• Creation of Detention Centers: The hosts express concern over the establishment of large-scale detention centers, likening them to prison camps and predicting a rise in mass deportations. Stein observes, “This is the country that they want,” criticizing the dehumanization inherent in these policies (20:20).

• Economic and Social Impact: Discussing the broader ramifications, Stein explains how reduced immigration can lead to economic stagnation despite low unemployment rates. He states, “Without people coming to the country to do more work, to pay into our social insurance programs… economic growth seems like it's going to be real close to stagnant” (29:26).

Pentagon and Ukraine Weapons Funding

The episode explores controversies surrounding US support for Ukraine:

• Ridge Colby Case: Stein questions how Ridge Colby, Trump’s envoy for Ukraine, could unilaterally decide to halt weapons supplies, speculating, “Did Rubio not know about this? Trump not know about this?” (31:30).

• Implications for US-Ukraine Relations: The hosts discuss the potential weakening of support for Ukraine, with Stein concluding, “They really do believe [in the immigration policies],” tying it back to broader governmental priorities (32:40).

Social and Cultural Impacts

Stein and Miller examine the cultural fallout from restrictive immigration policies:

• Latino Music Industry: Adrian’s piece highlights how fear of ICE raids is causing a decline in Latino music festivals and international artists participating in the US, severely impacting the entertainment industry (26:48).

• Tourism and Local Economies: Reduced immigration is also affecting tourism and local businesses dependent on diverse international clientele, leading to economic downturns in various sectors (27:29).

Ideals vs. Reality: Patriotism and American Declaration

In a reflective segment, Tim reads a portion of Thomas Jefferson's letter on patriotism, prompting a heartfelt discussion on the nation’s current state:

• Jefferson’s Vision vs. Today’s Reality: Stein responds, “No, I don't. It's difficult time to be in here... We have forgotten how to learn to talk to each other” (44:50), expressing disillusionment with the current political discourse and treatment of migrant communities.

• Erosion of Foundational Values: The conversation underscores a departure from the ideals of self-government and universal rights, with Stein lamenting the current administration’s actions as contrary to Jeffersonian principles (47:12).

Candace Owens and Macron Rumors

The podcast touches on sensational rumors involving Candace Owens:

• Alleged Interaction with Trump and Macron: Tim shares an audio clip of Owens claiming that President Trump called her to stop discussing whether Brigitte Macron is transgender. Stein expresses skepticism and frustration over the bizarre nature of such claims, stating, “It's ridiculous... we are in trouble” (37:15).

• Impact on Geopolitical Discourse: The hosts critique how Owens' focus on conspiracy theories detracts from meaningful geopolitical discussions, emphasizing the absurdity of intertwining personal rumors with international relations (40:52).

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Stein and Miller reflect on the disheartening state of American politics, emphasizing the disconnect between foundational ideals and current policies. They express hope for continued discourse and the enduring spirit of patriotism, even as they critique the prevailing political climate.

Notable Quotes

• Sam Stein on Republican Red Lines: “They just continue to draw lines in the sand that they know they're just going to flagrantly violate” (07:27).

• On ICE Funding: “The ICE budget at 37.5 billion is greater than Israel's defense budget at 30.5 billion” (19:05).

• Reflecting on American Ideals: “It's a difficult time to be in here... We have forgotten how to learn to talk to each other” (44:50).

• On Candace Owens’ Claims: “It's ridiculous... we are in trouble” (40:52).

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a somber tone, urging listeners to reflect on the nation’s trajectory and the importance of upholding its foundational values amidst political turmoil. Tim Miller signs off, hinting at future episodes featuring prominent neoconservatives like Bill Kristol.

Produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.