The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Sam Stein: Trump Is Trying to Instigate Unrest

Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Sam Stein (Managing Editor, The Bulwark)

Overview

This episode delves into the alarming escalation of federal intervention and unrest in Minneapolis, examining the Trump administration's motivations, the response from local and national actors, and the broader implications for American democracy and liberal norms. Tim Miller and Sam Stein analyze the political and moral consequences of recent federal actions, discuss the fracturing state of the Democratic response, and highlight chilling developments in press freedom and cabinet politics. The conversation is sharp, irreverent, and often incredulous—reflecting the “Never Trump” tone and the gravity of the moment.

Main Themes and Purpose

• Decoding the Trump administration's strategy in provoking unrest in Minneapolis.
• Debating the political, ideological, and psychological drivers behind the federal crackdown.
• Assessing local and national Democratic responses, and the consequences for American institutions.
• Broadening the discussion to threats against press freedom, cabinet dysfunction, and global affairs.
• Providing on-the-ground perspectives, personal observations, and calls for moral clarity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Federal Escalation in Minneapolis

• [02:28] The show opens with coverage of federal agents (ICE, DHS) confronting protesters with rubber bullets and gas:

  “This is a major US City that is under siege by its own government… they’ve sent thousands of ICE agents into a city that doesn’t want them… just stirring shit up.”
  — Sam Stein ([02:34])

• Political & Ideological Calculations

  • Trump talks about invoking the Insurrection Act to use the military ([02:40]).
  • Stephen Miller's "ideological project": “Trump loving tariffs and Stephen Miller wanting to deport brown people are like the main two.” — Tim Miller ([04:08])
  • The administration’s crackdown is partly about psychological “control”—wishing they’d been ‘tougher’ post-George Floyd.

2. What’s the Endgame?

• Skepticism that these hardline actions are a political winner:

  “People are turning against Trump on immigration and they’re turning against ICE… majority of the public now wants to abolish ICE.”
  — Sam Stein ([05:06])

• The move may have short-term "news cycle wins" but is a medium-term political loser ([06:28]).

3. On-the-Ground Reaction & Dissent

• [06:45] Notable "man on the street" interview:

  “I’ve never protested in my life… they detain people, cuff them, and then still beat the out of them. … I have friends that got detained, and all they were doing was driving home from work… This is wrong.”
  — Anonymous Minneapolis Protester ([07:05])

• Hosts highlight how ordinary, apolitical people are moved to protest due to the abnormality and extremism of the situation.

4. Skepticism of Official Narratives

• The hosts mock the DHS/ICE justification for the shooting that sparked the unrest, calling it “yakety sax racist Fargo episode” ([09:55], [10:04]).
• Sam jokes about recycled, formulaic DHS statements:

  “Do you think Trisha McLaughlin has a Google Doc with stock answers for things?” ([10:45])

5. State vs. Federal Confrontation & Democratic Dilemmas

• Discussion of six Minnesota prosecutors resigning rather than being forced to target immigrant communities ([12:08]).
• Should Minnesota Governor Tim Walz preemptively call in the National Guard to defend the city from federal overreach?

  “Now there’s a legitimate reason to do it… but that also just hands them what they want…” — Tim Miller ([13:09]) “You would hate to see a situation where they call in the Guard, then they call in the military, and then it’s real fucking tinderbox.” — Sam Stein ([13:39])

6. Philosophy, Federalism, & Conservative Hypocrisy

• Lamenting abandonment of “state’s rights” by supposed conservatives:

  “State and local government knows best... We don't need the federal government telling us what to do... This is not a conservative administration.”
  — Tim Miller & Sam Stein ([16:33–16:58])

• Only a couple libertarians (Rand, Massie) object on federalist grounds ([17:02]).

7. ICE Recruitment Fiascos & Broader Competence Issues

• ICE using AI to auto-screen job applicants leads to unqualified people fast-tracked due to the word “officer” on resumes ([17:43]).
• Both mock the decline in recruitment standards; “I don't think they're sending their best and brightest…” — Sam Stein ([20:19]).

8. Democratic Messaging & Strategy Frustrations

• Ongoing Democratic division over whether to “abolish" or “reform” ICE, and excessive focus on preferred terminology instead of message discipline ([22:08]).

  “Fight ICE. Fight Stephen Miller. ... Talk about how bad ICE is and don’t talk about how bad other Democrats are because they’re using the wrong word.”
  — Tim Miller ([22:45])

• Satire of Richie Torres’s “QR code for ICE” proposal ([24:05]); mocked as technocratic nonsense.

• “No, you just fucking go… If they're sending troops into the street... You don't just say, ‘but healthcare's such a better issue for us.’”
  — Sam Stein ([25:01])

9. Press Freedom & Chilling Legal Actions

• Chilling search and seizure of Washington Post reporter Hannah Nattinson’s home and devices in a leak investigation ([29:34]):

  “This is directly at odds with my interpretation of the freedom of the press. … What this will do... is send an incredible signal to anyone... that you might get targeted by the government.”
  — Sam Stein ([30:29])

• Lack of response from WAPO owner Jeff Bezos and the broader media industry underscores weakness of press protections ([32:38–33:50]).

10. Cabinet Dysfunction Comedy Segment

• Satirical “power rankings” of worst cabinet members; new entries for Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins (“$3 meals” simulation malarkey) and Secretary of Interior Doug Burgum (Greenland meme/imperialist aspirations) ([45:02–52:09]).

  • “It can cost around $3 a meal for a piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, corn tortilla, and one other thing.”
    — Brooke Rollins ([45:27])

  • “This is communist shit... 1989 USSR.”
    — Tim Miller ([47:20])

11. Global Affairs: Iran, Protest, and the Ukraine Connection

• Discuss the sick “metrics” for predicting war (pizza delivery and betting markets), the performative nature of Trump’s military posturing, and the ongoing campus protests dynamic ([37:26–41:19]).
• Lament U.S. confrontations with allies (Denmark, France over Greenland), support for Iranian protesters but abandonment of Ukraine ([53:45]).

  “It's horrific that right now we're in a confrontation with Denmark and France, with people in American cities, with our own citizens, and we're abandoning Ukrainians after being attacked by the Russians... and simultaneously, he's like, oh, we're very serious about human rights in Iran. Hard to take that seriously.”
  — Tim Miller ([54:33])

12. Spikes in Anti-Semitism

• Addressing synagogue arson in Mississippi:

  “There's a real radicalization happening predominantly in the online discourse that sees Jews as a real threat to everything... It's a very tense time for the Jewish community right now.”
  — Sam Stein ([43:23])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the White House goal:

  “They’re just trying to create chaos to justify more federal authorities going in there… Trump this morning… is talking about using the Insurrection Act.”
  — Sam Stein ([02:34])

• On democratic confusion:

  “If national Democrats keep arguing about whether or not to say abolish ICE… I’m going to light myself on fire.”
  — Tim Miller ([22:08])

• On media’s precarious state:

  “What this will do in practical terms is… send an incredible signal… that you might get targeted by the government.”
  — Sam Stein ([30:29]) “If Bezos doesn’t stand up… he should sell the paper.”
  — Tim Miller ([34:00])

• Man on the street (Minneapolis):

  “I gotta work in the goddamn morning just like everybody else. I’m just here trying to stand up for community. Dude, we’re all human beings here. … This is wrong.”
  — Anonymous Protester ([07:25], replayed [57:42])

• On Democratic messaging:

  “Talk about how bad ICE is… and don’t talk about how bad other Democrats are because they’re using the wrong word… This is a strategic point.”
  — Tim Miller ([22:45])

• On administration priorities:

  “Trump’s not a long game thinker… he’s just living a day at a time, like throwing out whatever random things Sidney Powell told him.”
  — Tim Miller ([06:05])

• On the ‘worst cabinet’ point:

  “This is communist shit… 1989 USSR and the Secretary of Agriculture is like… ‘just have a chicken in your backyard and have a little broccoli garden, and then eat for free.'”
  — Tim Miller ([47:20])

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |----------:|:-----------------------------------------------| | 01:13 | Opening: Overview of federal escalation | | 02:28 | Initial reactions to Minneapolis crackdown | | 05:06 | Polling trends: ICE and immigration | | 06:45 | “Man on the street” powerful protest quote | | 09:55 | Dissecting and mocking the DHS narrative | | 12:08 | Prosecutors resigning; local resistance | | 13:39 | Whether to call in National Guard | | 16:33 | Conservatives abandoning "states’ rights" | | 17:43 | ICE recruitment AI debacle | | 22:08 | Democratic message discipline frustrations | | 29:34 | Washington Post reporter’s home searched | | 45:02 | Cabinet member rankings/bad “$3 meals” soundbite| | 53:45 | U.S. confronting Europe over Greenland and Ukraine| | 57:42 | Closing replay of “man on the street” quote |

Tone & Language

• Candid, irreverent, incredulous, and emotionally charged: hosts curse, laugh, and openly mock the administration’s incompetence and proponents of reactionary politics.
• Language alternates between journalistic seriousness and sharp, meme-inflected satire.
• Empathy for ordinary people caught up in the conflict is a recurrent note.
• Determination in defense of liberal democracy and journalistic freedom, but also a weary frustration with both the pace and content of political resistance.

Summary for the Uninitiated

The episode is a deeply engaging, multi-layered discussion of the Trump administration’s attempt to manufacture unrest to justify authoritarian ends, particularly in Minneapolis. It explores how this strategy is failing politically but succeeding in sowing chaos; how Democrats are divided and distracted at a time that demands moral clarity; and how the press, democracy, and rule of law are under threat from both federal action and internal confusion. The program is replete with vivid moments—both from ordinary Americans forced into activism and from the hosts’ own lived experience—making it essential listening for anyone trying to keep up with an America lurching toward an authoritarian cliff.

For further details, tune in at the provided timestamps for the most impactful moments and direct quotes that bring the urgency and emotion of the episode to life.