The Bulwark Podcast: Sarah Longwell and Jonathan V. Last – "We Are Sticking with the Mission"

Release Date: December 31, 2024

Overview

In the New Year's Eve episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a candid and in-depth conversation with Sarah Longwell, publisher of The Bulwark, and Jonathan V. Last (JVL), editor of The Bulwark and author of the Triad newsletter. The trio delves into pressing political developments, internal Republican tensions, anti-immigrant sentiments, and the evolving landscape of media and podcasting in the face of the Trump administration's influence.

1. Trump’s Endorsement of Mike Johnson and Speaker of the House Dynamics

The episode kicks off with a discussion on former President Donald Trump's endorsement of Mike Johnson for Speaker of the House. Tim Miller outlines Trump's strategy and the pushback Johnson faces within the GOP.

Tim Miller [01:08]: "Trump has endorsed Mike Johnson for speaker, presumably averting the first hurdle there of the pre-presidency... Mike, as my complete and total endorsement. ALL CAPS MAGA."

Sarah Longwell expresses skepticism about Trump's endorsement being a definitive solution.

Sarah Longwell [02:41]: "Can I just say my favorite thing about the speaker, just like fights in general, is that Trump put out another bleat in which he blamed Kevin McCarthy and said he did the dumbest move in history passing the last funding bill."

JVL adds that all Trump endorsements are conditional and highlights the precarious position Johnson is in.

JVL [04:03]: "All Trump endorsements are conditional. If it's clear that Johnson can't survive, then Trump is going to withdraw his endorsement and endorse someone else."

2. Internal Tensions Within the GOP: MAGA vs. Founder Class

The conversation transitions to the broader tensions within the Republican party, particularly between the traditional MAGA base and the newer "founder class" represented by figures like Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy.

Sarah Longwell [09:00]: "There's a huge disconnect between the reasons that the Silicon Valley type guys are into Trump and the reason the base MAGA voters are into Trump."

JVL explains the divergence between MAGA elites and the base voters, emphasizing that the base is unlikely to be swayed by the internal conflicts.

JVL [22:43]: "The base are the actual voters. And I don't think the voters are going to give two shits about this because... they aren't going to hold a grudge over this."

3. Anti-Immigrant Sentiments and Racism Within MAGA

A significant portion of the episode addresses the rise of anti-Indian racism within the MAGA movement, triggered by disputes over H1B visas and fueled by figures like Laura Loomer and Steve Bannon.

Tim Miller [14:19]: "Before I play this next clip, just want to all stipulate very clearly there is anti-Indian racism among MAGA. It is not good."

Sarah Longwell delves into the racist undertones of the anti-H1B visa rhetoric, highlighting the targeting of Indian Americans and the broader implications for the movement.

Sarah Longwell [09:37]: "There are these big accounts and they were just saying horrifically racist things about America... It was like the shrapnel was the Indian American community who was suddenly."

JVL and Tim discuss how these racist sentiments are pitting immigrant communities against native workers, exacerbating divisions.

JVL [19:12]: "This is like the Obama critique. This is like, you know, you didn't build that."

4. Elon Musk’s Influence and the Future of MAGA Coalition

The podcast examines Elon Musk's growing influence within the MAGA coalition and his relationship with Trump, raising concerns about potential fractures within the movement.

Tim Miller [28:23]: "Trump goes. I've learned that Elon is in bed with the Chinese, and we just can't do this anymore with him."

JVL contemplates the delicate balance between Trump and Musk, suggesting that their mutual utility makes a rapid fallout unlikely but warns of underlying tensions.

JVL [29:52]: "Trump has the power. Trump is the one who gets to person or unperson people."

5. Media Defections and the Future of Counterweights

Sarah Longwell addresses the shifting media landscape, noting the defection of key journalists from major outlets like The Atlantic and The Washington Post, which could lead to a media environment more accommodating to Trump.

Sarah Longwell [54:50]: "The media defections... we've seen the gutting of small papers, but I think you're going to see a massive shift in the media environment to be much more accommodating to Trump over these four years."

JVL underscores the importance of The Bulwark serving as a critical counterweight amidst diminishing independent media voices.

JVL [59:52]: "Because of that, we need to increase our throw weight. I think we need everybody's help to do that."

6. Resolutions and the Path Forward

As the episode approaches its conclusion, the trio shares their New Year's resolutions, focusing on personal growth, professional ambitions, and the strategic aims of The Bulwark.

JVL [36:33]: "I find the idea of making a specific point of introducing change in your life just because it's the New Year's to be insipid and toxic..."

Sarah Longwell reveals her professional resolution to grow The Bulwark’s subscriber base to one million free subscribers by the end of 2025, emphasizing the importance of organic growth based on genuine engagement.

Sarah Longwell [54:25]: "I want to be at a million free subscribers by the end of 2025... go tell all your friends."

7. Closing Thoughts and Future Outlook

In their final exchanges, the hosts reflect on the unpredictable future under Trump's influence, the necessity of maintaining journalistic integrity, and the enduring mission of The Bulwark to provide unbiased, truth-focused analysis.

Tim Miller [50:46]: "If sometimes it feels unnutritious for a week, that's fine. It's going to be a long ass, four years."

Sarah emphasizes the non-consequence-free nature of political rhetoric and the ongoing impact of Trump's rhetoric on societal divisions.

Sarah Longwell [49:53]: "Fear is the consequence of demonizing people, of creating consequences or create... none of this is consequence free."

Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller [01:08]: "Mike Johnson is a good, hardworking religious man. It's interesting. He'll do the right thing and we'll continue to win."

• Sarah Longwell [02:41]: "Trump is the worst in all cases. But there is something about people who have sold their souls to him and in return, he kicks them in the face."

• JVL [04:03]: "All Trump endorsements are conditional... I'm not saying I would take the over on three speakers in 2025, but I'd be tempted."

• Sarah Longwell [09:37]: "There are these big accounts and they were just saying horrifically racist things about America... It was like the shrapnel was the Indian American community who was suddenly."

• JVL [19:12]: "This is like the Obama critique. This is like, you know, you didn't build that."

• Sarah Longwell [54:25]: "I want to be at a million free subscribers by the end of 2025. And I think we can get there, but you guys have to go tell everybody about the Bulwark."

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of the current political climate, highlighting the fractures within the GOP, the rise of anti-immigrant sentiment, and the challenges facing independent media outlets. Through insightful analysis and candid discussion, Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, and JVL reaffirm The Bulwark's commitment to defending liberal democracy and offering substantive, reality-based political commentary.

For listeners seeking a nuanced understanding of the evolving political landscape and the internal dynamics shaping America's future, this episode serves as an essential resource.

Production Credits

The Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.