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The Bulwark Podcast
Sarah Longwell, JVL, and Martha Raddatz: Trump Is Looting Us in Broad Daylight
01:02:40
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- [00:00]
Sarah Longwell
What's up, y'? All? Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you. Sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color, that chill. The new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearl. Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day. Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks.
- [00:49]
Martha Raddatz
Hello, I am the voice of AI. We've been hearing that you humans are concerned that we are going to take your jobs. But here's a question. Do you even like your job? Is it rewarding? When I scan all the data out there, I find that less than 50% of people are completely satisfied with their job. So from our point of view, we're doing humans a favor by taking jobs that you're not even happy with. It shouldn't take the threat of AI to get you to move on from a job you don't love. What it does take is a plan,
- [01:21]
JVL
guidance, and the right kind of motivation,
- [01:24]
Martha Raddatz
all of which you'll get from a
- [01:25]
JVL
career coach at Strawberry Me.
- [01:27]
Martha Raddatz
A Strawberry coach will work with you
- [01:29]
JVL
to understand what you really want and help you put together a plan to get it. It's like therapy for your career.
- [01:36]
Martha Raddatz
Don't let AI or anything else get in your way.
- [01:39]
Sarah Longwell
Go to Strawberry Me Bulwark for 15% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me Bulwark.
- [02:02]
Tim Miller
Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We have a doubleheader for you today in segment two. Martha Raditz of ABC News will be with us. She's got a new book out. We're going to talk some foreign policy stuff, but I had too much rage to just have Martha on today. So we have an emergency segment A with the TNL gang. Because we don't have TNL this week and we already did one emergency tnl, but we're doing a second one because we love each other and we have too much anger in our hearts to just go a full week without.
- [02:32]
Sarah Longwell
I finally feel like you see me. Yeah.
- [02:36]
Tim Miller
So anyway, it's Sarah Longwell, jvl. I wanted to talk in particular about the slush Fund because I feel like each day I get more mad about it. And it's one of those things where it was so preposterous and ridiculous that I think that at some level I was blocking my heart and my blood pressure from achieving the levels that they should have achieved. And I started thinking about it today, reading Andrew Egger's Morning Shots, which is very good. And I want to posit this. What he's done, basically, is a $1.8 billion package that is reparations for MAGA insurrectionists. That's what this is our money that they're taking. What are your reactions to that?
- [03:19]
JVL
Okay, so it's not just reparations. This is the thing that I am really hung up on about this, but I agree with you. I get angrier about this by the minute. And I was angry. I was furious about it to start. This is the most corrupt thing we've ever seen a president do. And all these people on the right right now, especially at the nro, right, who are trying to tell us that somehow this is normal or this like we've seen other presidents do this, this isn't unprecedented.
- [03:40]
Tim Miller
That is like the settlement with the Native Americans. How is this any different than the
- [03:45]
Sarah Longwell
settlement with the Indians, Deepwater Horizon stuff, you know?
- [03:48]
JVL
No. And look, if you want to go deep on this, Andrew Weissman and I do it on illegal news, and he has, like, a tremendous breakdown of this, so go listen to that. But here's the thing that's really torqued. One is to say that it's reparations, is to say that it's backward looking. Okay? But it's not just backward looking. This is about not only paying people off. Right. It's about incentivizing them for future payoffs as long as they do what Trump wants them to. Right. Like Trump has concocted by. By pardoning the January 6th insurrectionists and then giving them remuneration. He is also creating an incentive that says, you do bad things for me, you break the law for me, you know what I'll do for you? I'll pardon you and I'll pay you. Pardon and payment. That's what he gives to people who break the law.
- [04:32]
Sarah Longwell
So that's what I'm. I'm freaked out about. So back in 2020, guys may remember this, the President of the United States called up the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in. In Michigan. The board of canvassers are anonymous people who. Nobody has any idea who these people are. But not. He was like, you know, can you Just, just don't certify the results in your county, that's all. You don't have to change anything. You just have to not sign your name. Now, they sign their names, and God bless them for that. Imagine how that phone call goes if he says, don't sign your name and you get a million dollars. Because I've got this secret fund, and by the way, its decisions are all in secret. Nobody can ever see that, so you don't even have to. No accountability.
- [05:18]
Tim Miller
This was the thing in Eggers that hadn't sunk in with me this morning. It's like the money's out the door now it's gone, right? So there is no legal opportunity for clawing it back. It's like, now this fund has the money and they get to disperse it whoever they want. And we don't know. There's no foia, there's no oversight.
- [05:36]
Sarah Longwell
The single best part of this is that the fund sunsets at the end of Trump's term. Like, that's amazing to me, right?
- [05:45]
JVL
So Comey, Comey can't use it. Letitia James can't use it for, for Trump weaponizing his administration against people. It is only for people who say they were weaponized against Biden. I don't know if you saw this, but someone like Molly Hemingway, right, is out there. Like, now there's also all these people who are out there being like, yeah, I was done dirty by the Biden administration, right? They're all going to apply for money, and it's just a way to hand this stuff out to people they like, and particularly people who will carry their water and do their crimes and, and
- [06:20]
Sarah Longwell
it's a point of leverage over people once they have applied. Because once you have asked the Trump people to give you money, they can then say, well, let's see.
- [06:33]
Martha Raddatz
Right?
- [06:34]
Sarah Longwell
Let's, let's see what you can do for me. You know, we're, we're considering your application. Let's see what you can do for us. For us, right? I mean, the levels of corruption here are off the fucking charts here.
- [06:46]
JVL
I'll give you another one. So also as part of this deal, is that the IRS is never allowed to go after Donald Trump or his family members again. They are buying themselves immunity going forward, which, by the way, life. Can we just say how much that doesn't track? Like, if the problem is that you had a contractor who leaked your tax returns, the idea that what you get as remuneration for that, first of all, the idea that it was 10 billion, the idea that it's this $1.7 billion slush fund. None of that. But the idea that then also you get immunity from prosecution in business matters for the IRS in perpetuity for you and your family is. Doesn't follow. Like, that's not a thing that you get. The level of corruption here is staggering and in plain sight. And I think that the silence on the part of Republicans, like, go ask every Republican in con media if you're listening. Manu, if you're listening, every member of Congress should be asked about this. And if they do, like the John Thune. It's not my favorite, don't love it. These guys should not be able to get away from this. This should be the kind of thing that makes people go. Go berserk.
- [07:59]
Tim Miller
I know Sarah doesn't love doing fast math. So I'm going to do this for 1.8 billion is 1800 million.
- [08:07]
JVL
Yeah.
- [08:08]
Martha Raddatz
Yeah.
- [08:08]
Tim Miller
So, like, you can find. They basically can go out and find 2,000 people and bribe them with a million dollars for 18,000 people and bribe them with $100,000. The type of leverage for bribes, like, the scale of this is, like, really kind of challenging to wrap your heads around, like, how much, like, how much raw money it is.
- [08:31]
Sarah Longwell
So I think some people would say it's no different because, you know, if Trump was going to bribe people, he could have done it out of his own poc, Right? That's not true. Because when you're bribing people out of your own pocket, that is illegal. That is fraud. This is legalized fraud. So in the same way that his defamation suits against ABC and CBS were basically legalized bribery. Right? It would have been. It would have been illegal for him to come to them outside of a court of law and say, I demand that you pay me because that. That otherwise I'll be mean to you. That's extortion. But if you do it under the COVID of a lawsuit and then the two of you sign a private contract which says, we will pay you, please be nice to us, that's perfectly legal. And so that's what this fund does. It takes what otherwise might be illegal behavior, and it blesses it under the law. He's an innovator. I keep saying this. The guy is an absolute innovator. These are things which nobody ever contemplated.
- [09:35]
Tim Miller
And it's like, I was talking with Kathy Young about this. Like, we were tweeting at each other about it. It's like, think about the outrage that there was at Kamala Harris when she posted the link on her social media feed to the bail fund for protesters. And I think it was Kenosha. I'm going from memory, I think it was Minneapolis, actually. And there was some outrage because, like, some of those protesters who accessed the bail fund had done some petty crime. Right. Or like. Or maybe had broken into a building or something, which is. Which is not appropriate. Right. But what she had done was like, just post. This is a GoFundMe, basically, so other people can go contribute to this. And a leader, a political leader, shouldn't do that, shouldn't be incentivizing this type of behavior. The other side of this, a lot of that money went to actual protesters who were wrongly gone after by the government. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. That's what she did. This is as if Joe Biden had decided to take $1.8 billion of tax money and giving it to the Kenosha rioters. And that is what they're doing now. They were outraged that there was just even a notion that other people could privately raise GoFundMe for people who had been put in jail so they could have a defense fund. This is a handout to rioters.
- [10:52]
Sarah Longwell
I want to emphasize the corrupt nature of the process by which we got to this, because, again, it would be one thing for there to be a piece of legislation for. For Congress to say, we need to have this fund, people in Congress vote on it. The President signs the bill into law. It would be another thing for the President to sign an executive order on this. What happened here is that Donald Trump, as a private citizen, filed a lawsuit against the government that he heads, and then, while sitting on either side of the table, does a totally unaccountable settlement with himself in which he abrogates $1.8 billion of. Of the government's money for his own
- [11:36]
JVL
purposes, which is why it's completely unprecedented. And somebody should go tell the good folks over at NRO and some of these other places that in these other settlements, they were done. They were at least adjudicated by courts. Like, whatever you think about them, there was like, a process that was not the person sitting on both sides of the table.
- [11:54]
Tim Miller
I don't mean the grossest. I did mention this in the Friday pod is like, you know, there is the bad incentives for doing things in service of Trump and an attack on a democracy, which is really concerning. But there's also just. A lot of these people are criminals. And it's just. This is like a classic conservative argument, like thinking about NRO or Ben Shapiro, like that you don't want to have government policies that incentivizes bad behavior. And this is just a traditional conservative argument. We literally have evidence that they've done that. Like one of the rioters who was pardoned, who thought this money was coming, tried to bribe the kids that he was raping to shut up.
- [12:29]
JVL
That's right. Like this is the thing. A whole bunch of these people that he pardoned went on to commit new terrible crimes, many of them sex crimes and some of them sex crimes against children. These are people who are going to get money from us. We are paying them off. The level of outrage. And this is why I do think as Republicans, it starts to sink in. We should make it sink in what is happening. And because this is just like the ballroom. This is our money. While people can't pay for gas, while people can't pay for groceries, they doged away our ability to what, immunize sick kids and continue to do NIH research. But we're going to pay out $1.8 billion to the January 6th rioters. They tried to overturn an election.
- [13:12]
Sarah Longwell
I have a question for you guys. I worry that this is hard to make a salient issue because A, you have to explain it. It is slightly complicated, but B, after the initial hit on this is over, the whole thing is submerged in darkness and nobody can ever.
- [13:32]
Tim Miller
I hear your critique about the reparations branding, but this is why I like 1.8 billion for white reparations, for reparations for MAGA insurrectionists. We can keep noodling on it. I think that there's a way to explain it that is somewhat simple, but I hear you.
- [13:47]
JVL
I do think that Democrats are going to have to figure out how to start telling a much bigger story. And this is one of those days where I just want Democrats to go grab a microphone. I want them to be in their Republican colleagues faces saying, how can you let this happen?
- [14:00]
Sarah Longwell
Because at least demand to know who's on the board. Who are the five? Who are the five judges on the board?
- [14:05]
JVL
Sure. But there's a story to tell here about corruption overall. Like the ballroom isn't hard for people to understand. And what you do is you create a big case. Navalny did this in Russia. It was all about. And it's a contrast conversation. It is about all of the ways in which your tax dollars are being stolen by this administration and then all of the ways in which Trump is not helping you. Right. All the ways he's using taxpayer dollars for his own petty purposes, including helping these Insurrectionists and not helping you. The person who is suffering under high gas prices for his war of choice and everything else.
- [14:36]
Tim Miller
The ballroom is the other thing I wanted to talk to you guys about. So why don't we go to that. This is a real sentence from Jake Sherman at Punchbowl. And, like, nothing against Jake. He's just reporting the news like, this is just a deadpan sentence. That is true. As far as how Republicans in the Senate are acting this year in this moment, the $1 billion for U.S. secret Service for the ballroom is one of the most important things Republicans are dealing with right now. It's the single provision that's standing in the way of ICBP funding. Trump wants us on his desk by June 1, but it's been complicated by the 1 billion. I mean, this is like, this is their top priority right now. Trump was out there talking about it again today. They're gonna have a drone launching pad on the ceiling of it. They've added. Now there's a little press conference. He wants to fire the parliamentarian because the parliamentarian said that they couldn't include this in reconciliation. It's also holding up the ICE and Border Patrol funding that they're trying to do, like, amidst all the problems in the country. They're not hiding. This isn't a darkness. They're just like, no, this is what matters to Trump. This is his priority. The ballroom.
- [15:40]
Sarah Longwell
I want them to do it. Oh, I want them to do it
- [15:44]
Tim Miller
so you can knock it down.
- [15:45]
Sarah Longwell
Are you guys. Are you. Yes.
- [15:48]
Tim Miller
You want them to build it with our money so we can knock it.
- [15:50]
Sarah Longwell
I want them to build it with our money. And I think it is important that they do use taxpayer money. I want them to use taxpayer money.
- [15:56]
Tim Miller
Right.
- [15:58]
Sarah Longwell
Forget hiding, because a, it means there was more corruption with the $400 million in donations that joints. Where are they? You know? But also then to. To knock it down. Are you guys with me on knocking down the ballroom?
- [16:11]
Martha Raddatz
Yeah.
- [16:11]
JVL
You can knock down any of the stuff that he does. I don't care. Or we can rename it like, I, I'm.
- [16:15]
Tim Miller
I. I'm squishy on the ballroom.
- [16:18]
Sarah Longwell
Gotta destroy it. Can't rename it. If you rename it then Vice president,
- [16:22]
Tim Miller
what if you rename it the George Floyd Honorary Ballroom Memorial.
- [16:27]
Sarah Longwell
Anything you do short of destruction can be undone by a future, future administration.
- [16:32]
JVL
Okay, well, do I have to fight right now?
- [16:36]
Tim Miller
Talk about end of Rome stuff. We're gonna keep building and knocking down the ballroom over and over again.
- [16:40]
Sarah Longwell
That's right.
- [16:41]
Martha Raddatz
You know what?
- [16:42]
Sarah Longwell
Tell them we can do this all day.
- [16:44]
Tim Miller
Pack a lunch.
- [16:46]
JVL
That's what I did with my 3 year old with blocks all the time. Build it up just so they could knock it down.
- [16:51]
Tim Miller
But so the prioritization part does feel off, you know, feels a little.
- [16:56]
Sarah Longwell
That's why I want them to do it.
- [16:58]
JVL
But it's more.
- [16:59]
Sarah Longwell
I want Democrats to be able to run around the country saying they're spending all their time trying to pass $1 billion to build his ballroom.
- [17:05]
Tim Miller
And they are.
- [17:06]
JVL
That's right. But this is, but this is the story. The story is Donald Trump is looting us in broad daylight. You know what? He's not shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. He's mugging the American people on Fifth Avenue.
- [17:17]
Tim Miller
1000X. I mean, 10,000 acts at the amount of looting that they're doing. I want to throw. This is the last thing for you to Martha. And this just felt like Chris Hayes is kind of a stand in for JVL right now. And Chris Hayes is playing the JVL role on the next level. And so I just want to kind of insert him vi absentia.
- [17:35]
Sarah Longwell
Welcome, Chris.
- [17:35]
Tim Miller
He sent this tweet that I just, just. I was like, wow. Very rarely do you see a tweet that makes you go, hmm, maybe that. Maybe this is right. Chris. I'm starting to become convinced that Trump's monomaniacal obsession with the ballroom bunker is because he plans on barricading himself inside there with his term
- [17:56]
Sarah Longwell
boom.
- [17:58]
Tim Miller
I mean, is that the craziest thing that's ever said? I don't know.
- [18:03]
Martha Raddatz
No.
- [18:04]
JVL
I love this idea that somebody else is now president and Trump just lives next door in the ballroom and he, like, haunts it. He's over there ranting and throwing ketchup against the walls and blaring Fox News. And we all have to just tolerate him until he dies.
- [18:19]
Sarah Longwell
Being over Don Jr. Is president.
- [18:22]
Tim Miller
Well, it's kind of like president and
- [18:24]
Sarah Longwell
his dad doesn't leave jvl.
- [18:26]
Tim Miller
It's kind of like how Benedict moved to the private quarters.
- [18:30]
Sarah Longwell
That's right. He moved to the. I forget the Papal apartments. Maybe somebody Trump did not like.
- [18:38]
Tim Miller
It is important to remember this is an important thing to say that I don't think I've mentioned in the ballroom discussion. Trump did not like the accommodations in the bunker when he was hiding from the George Floyd protesters.
- [18:49]
JVL
That's what I said. He's been in a bunker.
- [18:52]
Tim Miller
He's been a bunker.
- [18:53]
JVL
He hid in the bunker.
- [18:53]
Tim Miller
Yeah, he hid. He hid during the Black Lives Matter protest like a little bitch. And when he was down there, he was like, you know, not enough gold for him. The marble is all wrong, you know, smelled a little dank. And so I do think he's looking for a better place to hide, maybe. I don't think that's crazy. I mean, this is a contingency plan. As a contingency plan, he wants to make sure if he's got to hide again because he has experience hiding, he knows that hiding is possible, that he wants it to be nice.
- [19:29]
Sarah Longwell
No, I know there are going people who listen to this and say, like, oh, you're crazy. Here's my question. If Trump was planning on staying beyond the conclusion of a second term, what would he be doing differently? The answer is not much.
- [19:46]
Martha Raddatz
Right.
- [19:47]
Sarah Longwell
He basically would be doing the same sort of stuff he's doing now.
- [19:50]
Tim Miller
He might be trying to be more popular.
- [19:51]
JVL
He might be. He might be trying to govern in such a way that, that he wasn't at, you know, 35%.
- [19:58]
Sarah Longwell
I got a try it about that today. I'll let you.
- [20:00]
Tim Miller
Okay, great.
- [20:01]
Sarah Longwell
Go hunt.
- [20:02]
Tim Miller
What a tease.
- [20:03]
JVL
I do love this theory, though, because it's sort of like the way all my friends right now, right? We're of a certain age where many of our parents are aging and everybody's building adus for their parents are like little houses behind their.
- [20:15]
Tim Miller
Building himself an adu.
- [20:17]
JVL
Love the idea of somebody there's building Trump a little, little anti house to go live in.
- [20:24]
Tim Miller
All right, thanks, guys. Bonus Next level at the Top of the Bulwark podcast on Tuesday. We'll be back next Tuesday for the Next Level podcast that is out every Tuesday evening. So if you haven't subscribed to that feed, go do it. This is about average what you just got there. That's just generally the gist. But it's usually like 5x longer. Same type of material, but 5x longer.
- [20:46]
JVL
Just since we just did this whole riff and we were joking around, every time somebody clips us to try to make us to try to criticize in some way, they did it the other. With somebody who's doing it to you the other day with your bit about how people over 65 shouldn't vote. It is almost always when we're joking,
- [21:03]
Tim Miller
it's always a joke.
- [21:04]
JVL
It's like when we were. When I was ranking Ted Cruz or whatever. That one gets around now. And it's like, guys, we are screwing around with each other sometimes and can we just have fun without everybody being like, this is what they.
- [21:15]
Tim Miller
Legalize comedy.
- [21:17]
JVL
Legalize comedy.
- [21:18]
Tim Miller
Make comedy legal again.
- [21:19]
Sarah Longwell
What else is there?
- [21:21]
Tim Miller
The world.
- [21:21]
Sarah Longwell
Everything is so fucked right now. The least we can do is have a little bit of fun when we're in our little podcast together.
- [21:27]
JVL
That's right.
- [21:28]
Tim Miller
Come hang out with us. Up next, Martha Raddatz. Thanks guys.
- [21:32]
Martha Raddatz
Bye.
- [21:49]
Tim Miller
Hey y', all, I'm in the middle of packing right now. We're heading out to our California shows, the Bulwark.com events if you haven't already got your tickets. And yeah, I'm not really the best packer. You should see the inside of my bag. I'm just dumping in there. I got microphones, I got cords, I got, I got bricks. Everything's all tangled up and it gets a little bit aggravating. But I've been making some progress streamlining all this thanks to our friends at Ridge. Just like Ridge revolutionized the wallet, they've now changed the game for portable charging. They've got a five in one travel power bank with built in cables that let you charge all your devices at the same time. With just one power bank and no extra cables. This is critical for everyone who, like me, lives by the simple rule ABC always be charging. And this is your reminder. Father's Day is coming up. My dad's more of a practical gifts kind of guy himself. You know, I like to get a little whimsical for me. So if you're trying to think through a gift your dad could actually use, let's turn to Ridge. That five in one charger or Ridge wallet went back to the office last week and one of the gals in the office said that her husband, on the recommendation of this podcast, got himself a Ridge wallet and he's loving it. So go get one of those to your dad. One thing to pack five ways to power for a limited time, get up to 40% off during Ridge's huge Father's Day sale at ridge.com TheBullwerk don't miss one of their biggest discounts all year. Just head to ridge.com thebullwerk and you're all set. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Delighted to welcome to the show. Chief global affairs correspondent for ABC News. She's been covering America's war since 9 11. Also co anchor of of the Sunday show this week. Her new book the Hero Next Stories of Patriotism and Purpose will be published next week and it's available for pre order now. Go get it. It's Martha Raddatz. What's up Martha?
- [23:46]
Martha Raddatz
Hey, how are You. I have the good set behind me. I just want you to know that I've had that all along, not just for the book about patriotism and purpose.
- [23:54]
Tim Miller
So you've been flagged. You've been flagged. You've been patriotic.
- [23:58]
Martha Raddatz
Yeah.
- [23:59]
Tim Miller
Even when you weren't flogging.
- [24:00]
Martha Raddatz
Exactly. And it's pretty cool that. See that little fighter jet behind me? It was in that fighter jet over afgh. I thought it was kind of. I have to admit, though, I copied David Muir, who has a flag in his office and thought it looked pretty great.
- [24:15]
Tim Miller
He's stylish.
- [24:16]
Martha Raddatz
He is. He is. We all want to copy David Muir, but I thought mine was pretty cool.
- [24:21]
Tim Miller
His ratings are up, I noticed, compared to some others. I'm happy to have you on the show. We've never done this. It's so good. And I want to do a little bit of foreign policy talk. Obviously, you've been covering that and been abroad a bunch covering the wars. And we'll do the book as well. I just want to get your take on the latest with the Iran war. This was Trump yesterday. I've been asked by the Emir of Qatar, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, the president of the UAE, to hold off on our planned attack of Iran, which was scheduled for today, Tuesday, in that serious negotiations are now taking place and in their opinion, a deal will be made which will be acceptable to the US soon. The deal will include no nuclear weapons for Iran. He's been saying this for quite some time now, I thought. Interestingly, this morning the Wall Street Journal reported that several Gulf from some of the countries Trump mentioned said they were not aware of the imminent plan to attack Iran. He described what's happening. What do you make of the state of play?
- [25:16]
Martha Raddatz
Well, just as you say, Tim, we've heard that before and we've heard that they're close to a deal before. Maybe they will bomb today. I don't know. It's very confusing to all of us to follow this and I'm sure it's confusing to Iran and maybe that's the point. I don't know. It's one of those things that's impossible to predict. I mean, if people say to you, what do you think Trump will do? I have absolutely no idea. I mean, it's chaotic in so many ways that it's hard to follow. And maybe that is the plan. But we have heard those predictions before. I think I've had numerous officials on from the administration over the past couple of months talking about. I think Chris Wright said several weeks in that it would be over in a couple of weeks. We've heard the president say that it's clearly far more complicated at this point than any of us thought it would be. And I have no idea what is going to come next. I think if there's a plan, if something's imminent, we'll see it, but we've heard that before, so it's impossible to predict what's going on.
- [26:25]
Tim Miller
Seems like a bluster boy who cries wolf situation. The interesting thing to me about it is just the sighting of the president being influenced by Qatar and Saudi and the uae. What's your sense of that? And the relationship and the influence of the Gulf states on what we're doing at this point?
- [26:45]
Martha Raddatz
I mean, clearly the Gulf states, whether they wanted it or not, were very involved in this because many of them were attacked in the initial rounds by Iran. So they clearly have a stake in it. And I think they have all tried very hard to help mediate this in some way or another, just as Pakistan is doing now. Again, it's one of those things behind the curtain. This is the most opaque curtain I've seen in many decades, because maybe they're saying things to sort of fool Iran. Maybe they're.
- [27:19]
Tim Miller
Maybe Trump's making it up. Right.
- [27:21]
Martha Raddatz
If there's a plan, we don't know. If there's a plan, we certainly don't know. And you hear different things. I mean, the crazy thing about the reporting on this is it's accurate at the time, and maybe two hours later, it's not accurate. It changes that fast.
- [27:37]
Tim Miller
You covered the Pakistan negotiations over there. I had a couple interesting questions about that. On the one hand, why Pakistan was so central to the negotiations in the original ceasefire. It seemed as if Trump did a similar thing to how he's doing now with Qatar, which is like, he posted this. I've been requested. Pakistan has asked me to consider a ceasefire for two weeks so they can help negotiate, negotiate a solution. But it kind of seemed like Trump asked Pakistan to do that, not the other way around. Like, what's your sense of what's happening with that?
- [28:13]
Martha Raddatz
That's some of the reporting that I have gotten, is that he asked. Those were pretty serious negotiations. They really were. The Pakistanis were very involved in this. They were held at this place, this Serena Hotel, Iranian delegation On one side, J.D. vance and his group of negotiators on the other side. But I flew there. It took about 24 hours. Because when you fly to Pakistan now, and you have to go way down and avoid the Middle east, because we're at war, and was there for about 24 hours and came all the way back for 24 hours. I think clearly they wanted to get something done. J.D. vance was serious about that. The Iranians seemed serious about that, but nothing happened. I think one of the biggest differences, and there are so many differences in foreign policy these days. But, but for decades, if somebody went over to negotiate, or particularly if somebody very high ranking went over to negotiate, they had something already agreed to where they thought they would walk out of there. That didn't happen this time. Whether the President's statement, now something's imminent, we're going to have this deal. I think, because we've heard that before, we just don't know what's happening. It was interesting that he didn't send JD Vance again and didn't want him to go over there. So maybe that was sort of a lesson learned. But the state of these negotiations, clearly they've got huge gaps at this point. Unless, of course, in two hours they agree to something. Tim?
- [29:44]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I don't think. Who knows what's happening inside Iran. It's kind of just as. Let me read the Iranian proposal and then I have a related question. Here's what they put out about an hour ago. Their terms include five demands, US Troops leaving areas close to Iran, US Paying war reparations, lifting sanctions on Iran, releasing Iran's frozen assets and ending the US Blockades. I'd say we're pretty far apart based on those negotiations. And I just think it's like one interesting part of this. And I think as a reporter who's been doing this for a long time, I'm just wondering how you navigate this is. It's like it's hard to trust what is true coming out of either party in this situation. Right. I mean, Trump is obviously using Iran, Definitely Iran. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
- [30:28]
Martha Raddatz
I have been in Iran numerous times and it is a house of mirrors and same thing. You can sit down and, you know, obviously the senior leader leadership is a little disrupted right now, but you can sit down with anybody and you can. They can just frankly just lie to your face about what's going on. But what is clearer than ever is they need money. They really want those sanctions lifted, they really want reparations played, their money that's been frozen, released. And that is exactly what the Trump administration does not want to do. I mean, they not only don't want to give the Iranians that money, they don't want that storyline that they gave the Iranians money because that's been one of the storylines that the Trump administration has put out about the Obama administration, that they released those, those frozen assets. So I think they're very careful about that. I mean, will they decide that maybe the Qataris will somehow come in and help them out on that, or the Saudis or whoever they can get to kind of bridge that gap between what Iran wants and what the US Wants? But I think the money is. Is absolutely a sticking point for the Iranians. I think they give up something, but they need something in return. And I think that's where the truth lies in all of this. But they are, as you said, Tim, I mean, they seem to be very far apart.
- [31:51]
Tim Miller
I mean, Trump has got himself into a situation where I think it's going to be hard to get out of it without giving them money honestly. I mean, based on the control of the strait, et cetera. And you obviously covering this closely, covering the State Department, were you surprised by just the lack of a pitch to the public about this, the lack of preparation for contingencies? I mean, it did seemingly come out of nowhere, and now we're in a situation where it feels like they might have to pay off Iran to get out of it?
- [32:18]
Martha Raddatz
Well, we'll see about that. But, yes, I guess the lack of engagement about Iran before we go to war was surprising in a lot of ways. I will say without question. I agree. And this will not surprise you that the US Military has tactically done a remarkable job. They had, perhaps, because they still have not said whether or not that school was hit by US forces. Bill McRaven, I had on our show recently and said he thought it was taking longer than it usually would to investigate something like that, not the bombing.
- [32:58]
Tim Miller
Well, that's because they're lying about it. Right? I mean, it was a Tomahawk missile hit the school. We can just say that, right? I mean, who else is Tomahawk, was it?
- [33:06]
Martha Raddatz
Yeah, there are certainly Tomahawks in that region. I have not done any sort of investigation, but we are waiting. They. They absolutely should come out and say who was responsible for that, because that's an important thing to do. It's important thing not only for us to know, but for US Service members to know as well.
- [33:28]
Tim Miller
I mean, obviously they aren't being forthcoming about this, and it's pretty easy to know. Like they know whether or not we hit the school. And I will assert that we did. We can see. But like, they know. It's not like this takes a deep investigation. It's not like they're Searching, you know, for a like a CSI Miami challenge.
- [33:42]
Martha Raddatz
It has been months. It has been months. So they know and they can do battle damage assessment.
- [33:48]
Sarah Longwell
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- [34:49]
Tim Miller
Speaking of battle damage assessment, and I guess I'm curious about this. And look, your book, which we'll get to, is a lot of talking about people that you've met reporting over the years in Ukraine and Afghanistan, other places, war zones. It doesn't feel like they're giving you guys a lot of access to this. And there's a lot of mystery around how much damage has been done to our military installations in the region. They've been forthcoming, I guess, about the people who've died in action. But about the injuries, what the nature of the injuries are, you know, doesn't it feel like they're hiding the ball more than in past conflicts?
- [35:23]
Martha Raddatz
We certainly have not had access at this point to anything other than the occasional press conference at the Pentagon. We haven't seen other than targeting, other than successful targeting. We have not seen anything or been able to go talk to our troops to be on a ship or to be at a base somewhere that has not happened. I for one would love to be there. I think it's not only important to report that, it's important for Americans to know what it is exactly we are doing. And I understand there are places that it's difficult for us to get to, it's difficult for us to get out to a ship. And we don't want to interrupt ongoing operations. But I think it's vitally important that Americans see what is going on, especially in those bases. As far as the injuries, I will say that is not unusual. That's a privacy concern for individuals as well. They don't often tell you what kind of injuries happened. They'll say life threatening or not life threatening, but very generally do not tell you exactly what happened. But I want to know what happened at those bases. I want to know what the protection was. I want to see it myself. And that is something that I've tried to do forever. It's like in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wait a minute, you told us this. But can we actually see that? And when you can see it, then you can accurately report it. Until you can see it, you're, you know, you're at a, at a loss.
- [36:50]
Tim Miller
And when it comes to not getting access, you know, the Washington Post exclusive, Evan Hill about a week and a half ago now saying Iranian airstrikes have damaged or destroyed at least 228 structures or pieces of equipment at US military sites across the Middle east since the war began. Hangars, barracks, fuel depots, et cetera. Like, this came from satellite images, though, like, not from reporting. And I do think that shows, like, the extent of, of just how much you all are not being given access to what's actually happening on the ground.
- [37:18]
Martha Raddatz
That was pretty extraordinary reporting. And that is exactly what we want to know more about. What is the cost of this? And I always believe that people deserve to know those details about what we're doing and why.
- [37:33]
Tim Miller
I want to pop into a couple of the other places that you've been reporting from overseas. Obviously, kind of related to what's happening in Iran is what's been happening in Israel. We have Netanyahu has said that Israel's expanding its control of Gaza to 60% of Gaza, despite the US brokered ceasefire. The EU last week agreed on sanctions targeting violent Israeli settlers in the West Bank. I think obviously Bibi is a player in these negotiations in a way that there's some possibility that Israel will still want to continue the war, even if Trump doesn't. What's your sense of how the situation in Israel is interplaying with what's going on with Iran?
- [38:14]
Martha Raddatz
Yeah, everything, everything seems tied together. There's no question about that. I've been covering the Middle east for many, many, many decades, and it is always a maze. It is always difficult to figure out exactly what's going on. But right now especially so and I think, I think one of the Hardest parts, again is there's not a lot of focus on what's happening in Israel right now because of what's happening in Iran. And they are certainly interconnected. I mean, we certain that Israel was involved in the war in Iran and how does that tie in to where they go or whether they go back into Gaza? I'm really not being much helped him. I feel like I'm saying we don't know. And I think that is true. And I've been. I'm usually optimistic about everything and I'm always sort of pessimistic about peace there and whether or not it is a lasting peace of any kind. But clearly Netanyahu has a say in what we're doing in Iran. Everybody is, is getting frustrated by the Strait of Hormuz, certainly Americans are, and our Gulf allies and everybody overseas as well. So.
- [39:20]
Tim Miller
Right. Obviously you can't predict. We can't predict what exactly kind of how Bibi's calculations are going to impact what's happening with Iran. In Israel itself, though, I mean, this is something you've been covering a long time. I think you were first over there during the first Intifada, right. And haven't you been.
- [39:36]
Martha Raddatz
Is in the right. I was, I was a Young reporter in 1988. It actually wasn't even the first time I was over there, but covered the first Intifada. One of the things I did over those years, which is incredible and which might reveal my pessimism, is because the people I met in 1988, on every side, on the Palestinians, on the IDF and settlers and Americans who had moved over there, they were all sort of Kumbaya at the time. We can all get together, we can all love each other. And over the decades it's only gotten worse and they've only hardened their own lines on, on every side. And I think that, I mean, I was a pretty naive young reporter then and sort of figured I'd go back and, and see these same people. And I remember the Jewish family that I had stayed in touch with from Boston, and she was the, the mother who went over there saying, all peace and it'll be great, and had little kids, obviously, like 20 years later. They were teenagers in college and everything. And she started really just absolutely trashing the Palestinians. And I said, do you want to talk like that in front of your kids? And she said, oh, they're way more hardcore than I am. So it is sort of seeing the generations over there and the conflicts that continued and what's happening that they have completely hardened and then October 7th and then that horrible, horrible thing, which I was over there within days to see that as well. Here we are again.
- [41:10]
Tim Miller
A tragedy. Yeah. And to me, the west bank right now is a little bit kind of under. Covered, under focused on, and you're over there. And the difference just between you're talking about kind of how people, whether it be on the Israeli side or the Palestinian side, kind of thought about their role and their community and their neighbors and how different that is from 1988. But just how aggressive the Israeli settlement actions have been in the west bank and the ability traveling back and forth to the west bank. It's pretty shocking what's been happening there. And I think because of the intensity of what happened in Gaza and Iran, it gets a little bit lost.
- [41:50]
Martha Raddatz
I would love to cover everything, every minute, every day. I go back there as often as I can to tell those stories. But we seem to move from one conflict to another right now and one headline to another. And we're kind of doing the best we can of keeping track of all that. But it is certainly a place that I'd like to go back and see that.
- [42:13]
Tim Miller
Just really quick thoughts on what's happening in Ukraine. We've seen some particular changes, I think, in the last couple weeks with regards to the Ukraine war. As far as Ukraine's now heading deeper into Russia. They had a massive weekend aerial attack in the Moscow suburbs that killed three people in Moscow and that hit the oil refinery there. The defeat of Orban released EU funds. He had been blocking EU funds for Ukraine. So more resources. It feels like the Ukrainians feel less curbed by the Americans or whatever concern about aggravating the Americans and Europeans if they become more aggressive. And it does feel like potentially some momentum is changing in the war there. I know you've been over there as well a bunch over the last few years. Just, just wondering what your thoughts are on the state of play in that conflict.
- [43:02]
Martha Raddatz
I think you are right. I think they have become more aggressive in the last few weeks. I think, you know, I've interviewed Zelensky numerous times and I think even probably the last time I interviewed him, which I think was last September, and it was kind of the first time he talked coast Alaska post the office visit. I think he was a little less hesitant to talk about his feelings about the US And I think in the months that have followed, his posture towards the war has as well. Look, I can't even. Maybe I'm not going to get the help I need from the US Maybe I'm not going to get the help I need from Europe. I just need to move forward. But at the same time, they've been more aggressive. They had that unbelievable. The Russians sending all those drones in the other night. And it is so heartbreaking, particularly there in Kyiv that has come under attack. But most of the time you can drive around Kyiv and not worry about it. And I think that has changed. I mean, the Russians are just sending everything they got into Kyiv because they know that that will make a difference on the front lines. I think, by the way, we haven't seen so much from the front lines. The other, other point is it's unbelievably dangerous to do that right now. I know some people have done it, but they just have to get more aggressive at this point. I mean, Zelensky wakes up every single day and is dedicated to winning that war and hopes people understand it. I mean, his, his resilience in that and in that goal seems unwavering. And Ukrainians as well. But at some point it's, you know, particularly if you, if you start really taking down a major city like Kyiv, if you start really causing damage, that. That scares people every day. Look, they're used to it. And when I go, you're used to, like, going to the shelter, you know, three times a night or something. They get very used to that. They end up sleeping in those shelters, which is kind of what we eventually did. But it's, it's just unbelievable to me how long it's lasted. It. It, it shouldn't be, but, but it is. And, and the night it started, and I got a text from a very senior military officer who said, you're there in the last few hours of peace on the European continent for a long time to come. And I thought, yeah, it'll probably take at least a year. And of course, that night we thought the Russians would move in completely, and that didn't happen. But it is just a horrible grind. And we talked a little bit about what I want to talk about too. I think, think all these wars, and I think the thing that struck me the last time I was there was that one of the physical therapists there who's working with amputees in Ukraine said he thought at the end of this war, there would be 100,000amputees in Ukraine.
- [46:02]
Tim Miller
Oh, my God.
- [46:03]
Martha Raddatz
You can sit in an outdoor cafe in Lviv or Kyiv, and within a period of 30 minutes, you'll see three or four guys walking by with, with, with amputations. There were multiple three limb amputations. Of multiple people. I saw. And, and the other thing people forget is they don't have the ada, they don't have wheelchair ramps over there. They don't have anything to help people. So that is a generation of young men who are going to have a disability for the rest of their lives. And it is going to change that country. It already has. And just the loss over there is incredible. I mean, there are so many people who have died that the scope of that is something we don't even understand, that we haven't suffered in decades and decades and decades.
- [46:56]
Tim Miller
A hundred thousand is harder to get your head around. That struck me about. There's this video going around from. There's like a 5K or something in Gaza too. And if you really looked at it.
- [47:06]
Martha Raddatz
And Gaza as well.
- [47:07]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah.
- [47:07]
Tim Miller
The number of amputees in that 5k, I was just watching it. I was like, holy.
- [47:11]
Martha Raddatz
And the children there, I mean, there's, there's been the, the, the loss of limbs and, and how you end up. And it's like, you know, we see largely the stories of hope. And I, I certainly try to do that as well. When I go to Ukraine and you said 5K, there was a guy who just got in a prosthetic leg and ran the 5K. And then I went to another facility that wasn't as, as well equipped as the one I came to first. And that's when I thought, I, I don't know what's going to happen to these guys with zero arms in one leg. I mean, they're just not, is the infrastructure there and certainly not in Gaza as well.
- [47:45]
Tim Miller
All right, some media stuff then we'll get to the book and get you out of here. This might seem offensive, but I don't mean it. So stick with me.
- [47:51]
Martha Raddatz
Okay?
- [47:52]
Tim Miller
This isn't about you.
- [47:53]
Martha Raddatz
It's right there, Tim.
- [47:55]
Tim Miller
This isn't about you. It's about them. I genuinely don't understand why the Trump administration officials are doing your shows anymore. And that's not a commentary on the declining media. It's just a commentary on like they, they've broken so many other norms. They, it's very challenging. The interviews are very challenging when they go on. Like, Trump could just be in his own bubble, which is something that he's done. There's plenty of right wing media outlets to go to. Like, what is your sense for what they're trying to get out of coming on your shows?
- [48:25]
JVL
I, I think probably what everybody does,
- [48:26]
Martha Raddatz
I mean that it, it's a way to try to get your points Across. I think it's great that they have not exited shows like ours. I do. It's, I mean, it certainly gives us a chance to try to get questions answered like anybody. You don't always get them answered the way you want. But, but to even face that challenge, I, I, I mean, it's, it's surprising in some ways. But seriously, I'm pretty happy they, they keep doing that. And, you know, it doesn't mean we have to have that person on or we, it's, it's up to us in the end whether we want, we want those, those Trump administration officials on, and we always do. I mean, it is somebody we can challenge. It is someone you can get a clear view of the Trump administration and what their goals are. So I'm grateful that they keep offering people, I don't know what anyone wants to get out of this, except to try to get your points across and whatever policy.
- [49:23]
Tim Miller
How do you prep for those interviews with the administration? Is it different from other types of interviews?
- [49:29]
Martha Raddatz
It's not, I mean, you know, it's like, it's like you, you're trying to, you know, get, get answers from people and try to predict what, how they'll answer and try to have a comeback for that.
- [49:39]
Tim Miller
I mean, but do you do that, you predict like you go through and have like a little document, or do you just do it in your head?
- [49:44]
Martha Raddatz
Yes, I try to do my homework as much as possible about what I think they might say. It's, it's hard to predict honestly with anybody, but there's so, I mean, you know, it's pretty easy when, and Chris Wright, a month into the war, said it's going to end in two weeks and you have him on two months later or an administration official that you're going to come back with that. And I also think we talk about no access to seeing what's happening with the war. I also think just anything and any way you can give people more information that I trust the viewers to know. Like, I always have this thing in my head. I'm not going to ask somebody the same question eight times or then it becomes about me. I'm going to ask them and trust that the viewers understand whether that question has been answered or not. And it's, it's okay. This person has not answered the question. I think it's very clear they're pivoting or they're pivoting this way or that way. So you heard it. I heard it. They didn't answer the question. Let's move on. You know, it is that fine line of trying to make sure you. You stay on point or get where you can, whether you get it or not. I think the information is out there.
- [50:54]
Tim Miller
Do you worry about being used on that front, though? Like, if you're not following up enough that they're, like, taking advantage of you or whatever?
- [51:01]
Martha Raddatz
Well, hopefully I'm following up enough. So, look, that, that is. That is. That crosses party lines. I mean the same thing when you say, well, they want to get their points across. Are you being used? I mean, are they being used? I just don't think about it that way. I think about it in terms of I do my best to try to get the information I want to get for the viewers. And that sounds a little Pollyanna ish, but it's true. I mean, I will get as much as I can. I know that nobody's going to come on and make some great revelation and, you know, I'm going to come on and thank goodness you asked me that question. I've always been waiting to have that question kind of thing on any interviews like that, that. But, you know, there is, there are times and that. That you get information. You get information that's important. So.
- [51:50]
Tim Miller
Well, if you have any tips for how to get them on the show or any secrets, you just let me know offline because, you know. Mike. Mike Waltz. Mike Waltz doesn't want to come on the Bulwark podcast. I know you can't. I know that's hard to believe, but he doesn't. Mike Waltz, you're welcome anytime. Chris Wright, you're welcome.
- [52:05]
Martha Raddatz
He answers questions, you get information from him. But, yeah, yeah, keep trying, Tim, good luck to you.
- [52:10]
Tim Miller
Okay, we'll work on it. Last thing on this is the listeners will be upset if I don't ask you about. How do you think about the question of talking about Trump's age and covering Trump's age? Obviously, there's been an issue with the last two presidents. Now, Trump is, in some ways kind of acted unusually for his whole career. So sometimes maybe it's hard to disaggregate what is happening. But I was watching. It was actually a clip of you. I was gonna. It ended up being kind of dumb. Trump was, like, making fun of the media and he mentioned you, and I was, like, going back to watch it to see if that would be worth talking about, and it wasn't. But what struck me about it was it was from 2016. He looks like a lot younger, actually. Like, I felt like he looked old in 2016. But if you watch it now, you know, and rewatch those clips. And he obviously has aged significantly. And I'm just kind of wondering how you think about covering his age and his capacity for these type of decisions
- [53:06]
Martha Raddatz
as a person who's also aging. And probably if you look back to 2016, you see a difference as well. But I mean, one of the things we try very hard to do is, like, just report what we see, what the facts are. You get to say whatever you want, Tim. You get to do commentary. You get to have an opinion. I don't think that's my job.
- [53:29]
Tim Miller
But the facts are like the bruises, and they're facts.
- [53:32]
Martha Raddatz
We cover it. Do we cover it? Yes. I mean, I look back at, during the Biden administration, a debate that I did with Paul Ryan and Joe Biden from 2012, he was a different guy. He was without question a different guy from 2012 to when he served.
- [53:49]
Tim Miller
Was literally just talking about that this weekend with somebody. Yeah.
- [53:52]
JVL
Yeah.
- [53:52]
Martha Raddatz
I mean, if you. If you went back and watched that debate, it. It was vintage Joe Biden and covering him in later years, I think that's another thing that people can see what they see, and people are going to make up their minds and we are just going to report. The president said this today. The president. You know, I'm not going to go back and take old video and look at him here and look at him there. People can make up their minds on that. You go ahead and do those things, Tim. No, we'll stick to.
- [54:22]
Tim Miller
I mean, I honestly, I feel like it was. It probably should have been talked more about, both presidents. And I think that there are objective ways to do it. That's my opinion. It's not about, like, offering commentary. It's just about like watching what happened. And he's been to the. He's been to the dentist three times this year for emergencies.
- [54:38]
Martha Raddatz
Watch what happens. You can see it. You can let people make their own commentary.
- [54:43]
Tim Miller
The book is the Hero Next Door. Talk to me about why you did it. You've kind of alluded to it a little bit, but give us the elevator pitch.
- [54:49]
Martha Raddatz
The elevator pitch. Okay. These are 10 people who I've met in my career covering war, and. And some of them are service members, some of them are family members. I feel like this 911 generation that was thrown in to these kind of endless wars, certainly in Afghanistan till the very disorganized and chaotic and tragic ending there, deserve to be looked at without the burden of politics, without the burden of. Of how these wars ended up, why we got into Those wars. The thing that I really also felt strongly about is these are people who I'm, lots of them I met two decades ago and they were maybe wounded in battle, they maybe weren't, but there was sort of some life changing event and I wanted to see what happened to them 20 years later, five years later. And in many cases they're what they did on the day that they'll never forget. They've done even more courageous things since. And it is that I like that word patriotism. I like that word purpose. And I want people to remember that that is who they are and who our American military is. They for those 20 years have kept trying to find purpose. And it's really hard for people in the military. It is. Or there's a story of a mother who's cared for her son, who I've known since shortly after he had a terrible brain injury. She was 49 years old at the time when her 20 something son was disabled. She's 70 now and he is still at home with her and she has taken care of him every day. I've presented these people to a lot, these heroes, which they hate that word, hate, hate, hate it. And it is always emotionally moving. It's not just story of the mother, it's, it's, you know, it's a fighter pilot who people just think, oh, a fighter pilot, it's Tom Cruise. And just sort of the sensitivity they have in their missions or why they joined. I asked a couple of them the other day just to talk about service and why, why they do, why they serve it, why they serve. And this young female fighter pilot just said the Constitution. I took an oath to the Constitution. That's why I serve. It's as simple as that. So they're incredibly inspiring people. And I just think it's important for Americans to connect. I really do. And I've always felt a kind of a bridge between that world, the military and civilian world. I didn't grow up with any military in my family, knew really nothing about it. But I feel like it's so important for, for civilians to be connected to our military, our volunteer military, and for them to be connected to us. Only 1% serve. They have done some extraordinary things and they deserve to be heralded in ways that Americans normally don't do. And when I think back of Iraq and Afghanistan. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your service. Service. They're still serving in so many ways. A couple of these guys are still active duty, but they're still finding purpose. I mean, I Maureen, who is paralyzed, is still invented some life saving techniques. A neurosurgeon who helped save my friend Bob Woodruff's life when he got blown up in 2006 is now going to Ukraine two or three times a year and doing brain surgery on the Ukrainian wounded. That is, that is purpose. That is I'm still going to serve, I'm still going to find a way to do good things. And I think when I look at them, it makes me never feel sorry for myself, first of all about anything. But it also gives me motivation and I hope others to just want to do better and to continue to serve in our own ways, to continue to contribute in our own ways. And they're just really inspiring people. And it's not like, you know, the title is kind of the hero next Door. These are profoundly serious and hopeful stories. And what they overcame to do, what they do now is pretty remarkable. And I just think it's lessons we can all learn from.
- [59:11]
Tim Miller
I was struck by that story of the Ukrainian brain surgeons. I was going to ask you about that, but since you mentioned him, I want to ask you about one other, one person you profiled, who's Derek Herrera. I always am moved by stories of people who get a second or third act in life where something happens and they summon the energy to go out and do something new. I don't know, being in middle age, I guess I see how hard it is for people to do that who are facing far less challenging circumstances than Derek, but who just whatever hit a rough patch for whatever reason that happens in life. And you write about how his wife remembers that she just married this intensely driven guy who just didn't know where to direct his ambitions after he got injured at war. And I thought maybe you could just share a little bit of his story.
- [60:00]
Martha Raddatz
Story Derek was a Marine who got shot, but helped evacuate the rest of the Marines while they were evacuating him. He was paralyzed. He is still paralyzed. It's one of those things that I think people don't realize that Derek, you know, he's probably been paralyzed almost as long as he wasn't paralyzed. I think he probably had two or three months of saying, why me? And then got to work. He's actually who I was talking about, inventing things that help others. I love the fact that Derek again was proud of his leadership as a Marine and trying to figure out the next step. Said I want to do something that uniquely I can do or I'm familiar with. He's now very familiar with being paralyzed. He is in a wheelchair care. And he invented something that helps people get tests for urinary problems because he will tell you in a minute that the biggest problem is not that he can't walk, but it's that it's very difficult and painful, not painful to urinate, and that catheters are horrible and it's humiliating and everything about that. And he has helped find a way to improve that, not only for paralyzed people, disabled people, men and women, but. But everybody who has urinary tract problems. Now, that may be like, whoa, you're talking about that from some service member. He will proudly sit down and show you a little model of male genitalia and how this will all work. And it's captivating. I mean, he's just done amazing things. And that's what I mean, no one would have any idea Derek did that. And that's what's heroic to me, that they've gone on and done something particularly like in middle age. It's like, and not only are you in middle age, guys, this guy is paralyzed and doing it. They also went on to have kids. I mean, it's just an incredible story. And he is an incredible human being.
- [62:04]
Tim Miller
It really was an incredible story. I recommend people go read it. And by the way, helping people get their male genitalia to work is pretty important service. Okay. As well. Okay. It's a pretty important part of the whole human experience. I got a little mad. I'm going to get. Finally, for my final question, I'm getting into the commentary space again, so you can speak about this as much as you want. But I'm a little mad today having you on thinking about these people in the book. I was reading it this morning, and it really is inspiring. And it's like, simultaneously to me reading this book, our government has created a settlement fund where they've taken $1.8 billion of our tax money. Some of the people in your books, tax money, and they're going to just give it to Donald Trump's friends and people that stormed the Capitol on January 6th. And we don't actually know who they're going to give it to. They can give it to whoever they want. That's a pretty stark contrast when you think about the types of people who maybe deserve reparations from our government and who's getting them. And I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on how we're treating our veterans.
- [63:09]
Martha Raddatz
I'm not going to go in the space you want me to go, but you keep talking about it, but I'm going to tell you what these people who I write about deserve. They deserve help in every way. It is incredible to me that there have to be fundraisers every year to help people who should just be taken care of. For the last 20 years that I'm on the board of the Bob Wooder Fund foundation, we've raised millions and millions and millions of dollars to help people who I wish could have money to help themselves without having to depend on those private, private fundraisers. They deserve everything that anybody could give them. They have earned it. They don't ask for anything. And the country should take care of them or at the very least, respect them. And we'll see what happens to that fund.
- [64:02]
Tim Miller
I agree with that. That's Martha Raddus. The book is called the Hero Next Door. We had a little tech glitch in the middle of this, so she had a little different background. But we fought. We persevere.
- [64:14]
Martha Raddatz
We fought through it. We changed the angle a little bit. You know, it's okay. We. You know, who would think that at a network television station we'd have trouble with the Internet? But we get on the air every night. It's amazing. We just don't do this.
- [64:26]
Tim Miller
Yeah, you do get on the air every night. Yeah. Made it into China even. All right, we appreciate it. Martha Raddatz, thank you so much for all of your time and hope to have you back another time.
- [64:35]
Martha Raddatz
All right, thanks, Tim. Appreciate it.
- [64:37]
Tim Miller
All right, thanks so much for the emergency assist from JBL and Sarah and also to Martha Rattle for debut appearance on the Pod. We will be back tomorrow with maybe an abbreviated edition. I'm traveling out to California. We're gonna do our best. So we'll see y' all then. It'll. If it is abbreviated, it'll be a banger and abbreviated. So see y' all tomorrow. Peace. The Borg podcast is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.