Stephanie Ruhle: The Trump Family’s Massive Side Hustle

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast — June 5, 2026

Episode: Stephanie Ruhle: The Trump Family’s Massive Side Hustle
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Stephanie Ruhle (MSNBC Senior Business Analyst, Host of "The 11th Hour," launching new show "Money Power Politics")

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Overview

In this sharply analytical and at times wryly humorous episode, Tim Miller welcomes Stephanie Ruhle to dissect the Trump family’s far-reaching business exploits and ethical breaches, focusing especially on Ivanka Trump’s latest Mediterranean development project. The duo extensively explores the Trump family's ongoing and mounting conflicts of interest, the erosion of anti-corruption norms in the U.S., the role of money in politics, and the wider implications for American governance, media, and public cynicism. Along the way, Miller and Ruhle touch on Congressional inaction on stock trading, AI, lobbying, and the current democratic malaise — all while offering the signature wit and incisive commentary that define The Bulwark Podcast.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stephanie Ruhle’s Media Moves & On-Air Chemistry

• [00:28–01:49]
  Stephanie is moving from The 11th Hour to a new news show, “Money Power Politics”, airing weekday mornings. They banter about scheduling conflicts, with Stephanie teasing a “live studio audience” and Tim’s need for performing in front of crowds.

2. Ivanka Trump’s Albanian Island Scheme & Media Critique

• [01:51–07:22]
  Topic: Ivanka Trump’s investment in a pristine Albanian island (“Flamingo Island”) and her smooth-sailing podcast appearances.
  • Stephanie lambasts the sycophantic, non-critical interviews that allow Ivanka to set her own narrative:

    “When a person of influence wants some free PR... they never, ever, ever have to sit down with a person who's actually going... to ask them critically important questions.” (Stephanie, [04:11])

  • They joke about the absurdity of Ivanka “rescuing” a perfect, untouched island by building a mega-resort:

    “My favorite is. There I was this untouched beauty in nature. So you know what I decided to do? Build a 10,000 room resort with maybe a timeshare opportunity.” (Stephanie, [07:05])

  • Media dysfunction: Lack of hard questions = unchecked family profiteering.

3. The Trump Family “Side Hustle” Corruption & Impunity

• [07:22–13:14]
  • Ruhle highlights that every Trump family member seems to be running some sideline business directly leveraging public power.
  • Massive increase in open, shameless grifting since Trump’s return to office; Trump’s superpower is shamelessness.
  • Tim lists Trump’s extreme personal stock trading volume:

    “Professional traders, professional career investors haven't done that many trades over decades…” (Stephanie, [10:44])

  • Trump trading for personal gain — particularly in stocks like Nvidia and Dell — while directly setting government policy over those companies.
  • Congress' inaction on stock trading bans, and suggestion that Dems should force votes to put Republicans on record.

4. Congressional Inaction, Bipartisan Corruption & Public Cynicism

• [13:55–15:34]
  • Why public outrage hasn’t boiled over:

    “...the American voter, while they never like it when they hear about it, they're basically focused on themselves... their top priority... what I want.” (Stephanie, [13:55])

  • Public is frustrated but often adopts “all politicians are corrupt” cynicism.
  • The anti-incumbent sentiment is rising, though still diffuse and largely unchanneled.
  • Lawmakers (of both parties) protect their own opportunities for enrichment, not the public interest.

5. Pay-to-Play Lobbying, Tech Money, and Regulatory Capture

• [15:34–23:02]
  • A “new era of open transactionalism”:

    “Instead of them saying like sure, pay me 50 grand a month, they're saying, sure, pay me 50 grand a month. Also donate $2 million to Donald Trump’s SuperPAC. Also...put Don Jr. on your board...” (Tim, [17:16])

  • Lobbying in the Trump era bypasses even traditional lobbying intermediaries; donors get direct access and “policy for sale.”
  • Example: Michael Dell donates $6B, soon awarded $9.5B federal contract (and Trump personally invests in Dell just before a presidential promo).
  • AI and tech lobbying hitting new highs: Trump blocks or adjusts exec orders depending on industry pressure.
  • Stephanie: Voters are now the lone check on big money, but the imbalance is vast.

6. The Illusion of Political Backlash & Big Tech’s Mixed Electoral Results

• [23:02–25:58]
  • There are signs of backlash against big-money interventions; tech-backed candidates are starting to lose key races.
  • The deluge of money doesn’t always guarantee electoral success (“sometimes you look at Elon... it’s easy for me to look at that and feel like... we have no power in the face of this type of wealth.” – Tim, [25:03])
  • Stephanie predicts the coming AI mega-IPOs will prompt further public anger at wealth transfer and lack of access to prosperity.

7. The Disconnect Between the Stock Market & “Real People”

• [25:58–36:58]
  • Stock market surges are ever more concentrated among a “sliver” of huge tech companies — vast public disconnect.
  • Ongoing AI hype: Investors see AI as a future growth driver, but most Americans are seeing little benefit.
  • Stephanie laments lack of long-term workforce planning for AI-driven disruptions.

8. More Corruption: The Palm Beach Airport Naming “Grift”

• [37:03–41:41]
  • Trump gets Palm Beach airport renamed after himself, secures direct licensing fees (even for non-Trump merch) due to DeSantis’ intimidation of local officials.
  • Both express morbid admiration for the “nickel-and-diming” nature of Trump family grift — multi-generational, but they’ll still scrape a few dollars from airport hats:

    “Still you’re like, I gotta scrape one extra nickel from you...” (Stephanie, [40:03])

  • Reminder: Trump Foundation barred from charity work for misuse — so nothing surprises.

9. Political “Country Club” Culture & Congressional Complicity

• [41:41–45:44]
  • Tim explains how supposedly “principled” Republican senators put party loyalty and future job prospects above meaningful action, letting the “slush fund” continue.
  • Stephanie equates it to maintaining country club relationships:

    “If I do the right thing, who am I gonna eat lunch with next week?” (Stephanie, [44:28])

10. “Fuckboys” in Politics (The Graham Platner Debate)

• [45:49–54:29]
  • Miller introduces a tongue-in-cheek segment on candidates whose personal drama overshadows policy (Graham Platner in Maine Senate race, Spencer Pratt for LA Mayor, etc.)
  • Platner’s risky profile: connects with anti-oligarch anger, but has questionable personal and campaign history (Nazi tattoo, messy relationships).

    “If you’re signing up for this one, it’s a little bit of a lottery ticket and not necessarily a good one.” (Tim, [50:55])

  • Stephanie: Outsider candidates’ rise reflects frustration with establishment politics.
  • They discuss the double standards for men and women in political scandal coverage.

11. Hunter Biden’s Social Media Feuds

• [54:29–57:24]
  • Tim shares that Hunter Biden is mad at him over his criticism, quoting Hunter’s tweet:

    “Just go listen to Tim Miller or the Pod Bros and you’ll want to start smoking crack…” (Hunter Biden, [55:06])

  • Tim’s critique: Hunter’s behavior only became “our problem” when he inserted himself into Joe Biden’s political operation.

12. Media Moments & Biting Political Humor

• [57:33–59:44]
  • They close by making fun of Mike Lindell outreach and celebrating Nancy Pelosi’s fashion and handling of crank media:

    “You work for Mike the pillow man. I do, and we’re very proud. Don’t consider that journalism.” (Pelosi, quoted at [58:20])

  • Tim compares his former disdain, now deep respect, for Pelosi’s toughness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the problem with media softballing Trump World:
  “Ivanka got to sit there at a podcast…there’s not one question being asked about like, where are you? Why are you there? Why hasn’t it been developed already?... But instead, she gets the benefit of crafting a story.”
  — Stephanie Ruhle, [04:11]

• Summing up the corruption:
  “Shamelessness is Donald Trump's superpower, okay? If it looks bad or smells bad, he doesn't care...unless it’s truly illegal. And even if it is, it’s debatable what he’s gonna do there.”
  — Stephanie, [11:37]

• On bipartisan congressional grift:
  “Journalists that cover businesses, that cover companies do not buy and sell shares of those companies. Officers, board members of publicly traded companies have an enormous amount of restrictions.”
  — Stephanie, [12:16]

• On the Michael Dell pay-for-play scandal:
  “Michael Dell gets a nine and a half billion dollar government contract. Is it a coincidence? I don’t know. But once you get a nice big, fat juicy contract like that from the government, it doesn’t go away.”
  — Stephanie, [21:28]

• On the "country club" mentality of Congress:
  “I think your country club analogy is a perfect one where they have the opportunity to do the right thing. And they're like, but if I do the right thing, who am I gonna get to eat lunch with next week?”
  — Stephanie, [44:28]

• On why ordinary Americans aren’t more activated against elite corruption:
  “They’re not in a bad way, but they’re like, can I afford healthcare? How’s my kids' school?... I don’t think there’s a huge American voting bloc demanding let’s close the carried interest loophole...”
  — Stephanie, [13:55]

• On Trump-level pettiness:
  “[You] are now mega, mega, mega wealthy. And still you’re like, I gotta scrape one extra nickel from you at the moment.”
  — Stephanie, [40:03]

• Nancy Pelosi, on a Lindell TV “reporter”:
  “You work for Mike the pillow man. I do, and we’re very proud. Don’t consider that journalism like the pillow man. That’s not journalism… I don’t have any reason to talk to you.”
  — Nancy Pelosi, [58:20–58:59]

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Timestamps for Important Sections

• Ruhle's New Show Announcement: [00:28–01:49]
• Ivanka in Albania & the Problem with Media: [01:51–07:22]
• Coverage of Trump and Kushner Grifts: [07:22–13:14]
• Stock Trading/Congress & Trump: [10:53–13:55]
• Lobbying, AI, and Influence Peddling: [15:34–23:02]
• Public Cynicism & Billionaire Backlash: [13:55–25:58]
• Stock Market vs. Real Economy/AI: [25:58–36:58]
• Palm Beach Airport “Trump Licensing” Scam: [37:03–41:41]
• The Congressional “Country Club” Problem: [41:41–45:44]
• Maine “Fuckboy” Candidates/Platner: [45:49–54:29]
• Hunter Biden’s Public Rebukes: [54:29–57:24]
• Nancy Pelosi vs. Mike Lindell TV: [57:33–59:44]

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Tone

Conversational, irreverent, candid, occasionally exasperated; mixes dry wit with public interest alarm.
Stephanie Ruhle brings business/finance acumen; Tim Miller brings sharp-edged political skepticism and gossipy humor.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode lays bare the sheer scale and brazenness of the Trump family’s ongoing profiteering—and the profound failure of political, regulatory, and media institutions to mount an effective response. Ruhle and Miller make a compelling case that while public anger is rising, meaningful reform hinges on breaking elite protection rackets in both parties. Meanwhile, democracy hangs in the balance.

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For listeners short on time:

• Ivanka’s Albania deal is just the tip of a family-wide iceberg of grift now normalized in U.S. political life.
• Congress and both parties are complicit or benumbed by the pervasiveness of dirty money.
• “All politicians are crooks” cynicism risks paralyzing real action, but there are some signs of pushback.
• Until voters demand reform, or new scandals break the dam, expect more of the same — petty, mega, and everywhere in between.

Transcript

[Stephanie Ruhle]

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[Tim Miller]

Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. I'm delighted to welcome back to the Show My buddy MS, now senior business analyst, host of the 11th Hour with Stephanie Rule. Well, she was or is for just a little while longer, the host of the 11th Hour. We're going to be moving on June 15th to a new morning show, Money Power Politics with Stephanie rule, airing from 9 to 11am on weekdays. It's Stephanie Rohl, of course. How you doing?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I am great. And there's only one. Cause everything else is excellent. Terribly sad. Part of the new show, money Power Politics. There's only one terrible part.

[Tim Miller]

It is terrible. I know what you're gonna say. It airs at the time that I tape this podcast.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yes.

[Tim Miller]

And so it's gonna be very challenging for us to be on air together, but we're gonna try to make it work.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

We're gonna make it work, especially because the show, one day a week is going to have a live studio audience. And if there is one thing that makes Tim Miller light up like a Christmas tree, it's this boy with an audience.

[Tim Miller]

I do need an audience.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I'm aware that you tape at the same time, but I have a feeling we're gonna lure you to the Big Apple on those days when there's an audience standing by.

[Tim Miller]

Talk to producers, find me a podcast studio in building and we can just kind of pop. I can pop right over. We'll figure it out.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

And we're on the case.

[Tim Miller]

We'll figure it out.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

We'll talk offline.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. There's a lot of real news. This is real news, too. But there's a lot of news affecting happening in our country that you would think we'd want to start with. But I'm obsessed and I feel like I absolutely need Stephanie Roll's take on this story first. And it is what is happening in Tirana, Albania. I don't know if you've been following this.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Where Ivanka once spotted this beautiful vista, we've got it. While she was on a super yacht. Is that what you're talking about?

[Tim Miller]

Yes. For anybody who has missed it, I want to play for you. Ivanka Trump was doing an interview discussing one of the many grips and businesses and entrepreneurial opportunities and daddy's gifts that she is focused on right now. And at the beginning of this we're going to play Ivanka in this interview, which it feels kind of like a. What was the guy's name in the Hunger Games? Who's doing the gay guy doing the. Doing the suck up interviews? It feels like one of those texts.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I'm going to have something to say about that on the other side as well.

[Tim Miller]

So we're going to listen to Ivanka, and then in the most veepish fashion possible, after we listen to Ivanka, I'm going to play for you some audio of what the fallout has been of this interview and this attempted conquest. So let's listen.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

All right, I'm going to pay attention to Ivanka. Here I go. An unbelievable, beautiful, 1400 hectare private island in the middle of the Mediterranean. We were on a friend's boat and we stopped for a swim. Effectively, that's how we found it. We swam to the island, we went on a hike, barefoot all the way up to the top, and we were just captivated. And it stayed with us ever since.

[Tim Miller]

I had to have it.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Over the course of many years, we developed the opportunity to help realize its potential and transform it.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sorry. Sorry. I should. Those explosions of the fallout of Ivanka, that is the streets of Tirana, they're so pissed that Ivanka is raping and pillaging their Flamingo Island. And anyway, Steph, what do you.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

But let's just start there. And I wanna start with the problem with the media landscape and Ivanka's announcement.

[Tim Miller]

Okay?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

And obviously, I'm not dogging on independent media. Here are the two. You and I are on your absolutely fantastic podcast.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

But the problem is as follows, because there are so many outlets that just want the opportunity to talk to a person of significance. When a person of influence or significance wants some free PR and wants to just get their message out there, whatever their message is, they never, ever, ever have to sit down with a person who's actually going to not even take them to the mat, but just ask them critically important questions, right? So Ivanka got to sit there at a podcast that was probably like, great, amazing. We're getting the first daughter. We're gonna get to sit down with her for 90 minutes. I can't wait to ask her when she is great at being great and there's not one question being asked about, like, where are you? Why are you there? Why hasn't it been developed already? Why wouldn't there be US Dollars being spent there? But instead, she gets the benefit of crafting a story, right? Creating her narrative, and then that gets to live on and live on. And I'm just saying, historically, I mean, do you really think that Richard Nixon wanted to sit down with David Frost? No, he did not. But if you want to get your story, if you have a message you want to get out there, well, then you're gonna have to balance. How do I tell my story and get my message and answer the hard questions? Not a single hard question was asked. This isn't just. Well, there we were on David Geffen's boat or whomever's boat. I don't know whose vote it was.

[Tim Miller]

The Rothschild boat. I wish it wasn't. But literally it was Matt Ro, you

[Stephanie Ruhle]

know, I did a swan dive, Jared did a cannonball. And there we were, just swimming to the shore. And it's like, great. Can't wait to. Can't wait to hit that up. And there are so many questions that aren't answered. And one of the. Listen, if we have all sorts of entrepreneurial lawmakers, obviously business people get into different businesses, you know, international real estate development, have at it. The problem here is that every possible turn they wanted to in Trump 1.0, and there were some constraints, but in Trump 2.0, every possible thing that we are seeing happen, somehow somebody inside this administration or their immediate family member is getting a piece. There's a side hustle everywhere. And this one, while we don't know for sure, there's more questions. And it has people feeling uneasy. Justifiably so.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. It has people in Albania feeling more than uneasy. Yeah, no, there's. I take your point on the media angle there. I also just enjoy the combination of Ivanka saying, like within three sentences, I swam there, I was barefoot, I walked up. It was beautiful, it was heaven on earth. And I felt like it needed me to help realize its potential.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Do you know what it was?

[Tim Miller]

I thought you said it was perfect. Why do you. Why are you needed for it? I thought its potential was being realized.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

My favorite is. There I was this untouched beauty in nature. So you know what I decided to do? Build a 10,000 room resort with maybe a timeshare opportunity. Because that's what you want to do when you come upon untouched perfection in nature.

[Tim Miller]

It's something. It is something else. The point you make with the interview as well, and with Ivanka, it's like it's slightly. The stakes are a little bit lower. I mean, the corruption is real. I want to talk about the other corruption, but with Jared, it's pretty fucking insane. And I had Robert Garcia on a couple of weeks ago. And I was asking about this. He hasn't testified before Congress since 2022. He hasn't done a tough interview in about that long either.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

He doesn't have security clearance.

[Tim Miller]

He does have security clearance. He does speak on background frequently to reporters who just quote him as a senior official, even though he's not. And it's just like, this is pretty crazy that he is able to kind of live in this bubble of impunity while all of this corruption is going on. And I don't know, like, do you, do you feel like, is the dam breaking on this? The combination between what's happening with Albania and the Iran war fuck up while he's got the Saudi money and the Trump personal investments? I don't know.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Do you feel like, I mean, I'd like to tell you that the dam is breaking, but I don't feel like it is. Right. Like we actively cover it every single day. It's actually one of the main reasons I wanted to move to 9 o' clock in the morning because we do a daily segment called White House For Sale question mark. And we're covering it. And I'm trying to push it constantly, I would say where I'm disappointed in this. I haven't seen Democrats tell a cohesive story, connecting the dots, showing the grift, asking what is. Jared Kushner is in charge of peace negotiations in the Middle east. Whether we're talking Gaza, now we're talking Iran, and at the same time he's raising money. Okay. And just think about Iran as the perfect example. The situation there is a mess. Trump and his family are making huge amounts of money while the average American who might not own their home or isn't invested in the stock market, is struggling, is struggling to put gas in their car. Right. Is facing inflation, is paying higher prices at grocery stores. And I've yet to see Democrats really pull together a cohesive message connecting the two. Right. When Donald Trump says, we don't need to talk about affordability, you know, people are doing so well. What Democrats should be doing is laying out, here's exactly who's doing so well. Here's why they're doing so well. Here's the businesses that are getting huge breaks from this White House. And here's life for you, America. And I think we're seeing some of it with the midterms, like the anti incumbent movement, but I think it's high. When you say, is the dam breaking? I think something that would help it is, you know, the truth matters, but only if people see it and people know it. We cover it every day in the news. But I don't think Democrats, in a real way, have taken this opportunity to lay this out for the American people. If you ask the American people, they're kind of like, all politicians stink. Listen, I did a panel yesterday, and immediately, you know, one of my panelists jumped to Nancy Pelosi stock trading. And I'm like, oh, please. Really? We're there again?

[Tim Miller]

Well, this is their big job for 2027. That's what I was asking Garcia about, since he's gonna be the head of the Oversight Committee. And we're gonna be on this a bunch, too, because I think they need to be laying the groundwork now. But when they have the investigative power, assuming they win the midterms, that's the first step. The corruption stuff has to be the top of the list. And your point about the Nancy Pelosi thing, My colleague Joe Perdicombe wrote about this a couple weeks ago now, and the amount of money that Trump has invested in the stock market in the first quarter of this year, because that was when the report was forced.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

So just 3700 individual trades, okay? Professional traders, professional career investors haven't done that many trades over decades, right?

[Tim Miller]

And all of Congress. So when you think about the Pelosi tracker, all of Congress invested less money than in the year of 2025, the whole year, than Trump did in the first three months. Don Beyer, who's a Democrat from Virginia, posted this the other day. He was going at Eric Trump. Trump's assets aren't in a blind trust. He bought and sold individual Nvidia stock in 15 separate transactions, totaling millions of dollars. And this is just one example of many. But there's a huge government oversight of what's happening with Nvidia. They're allowing Nvidia to sell chips to other countries, to China, et cetera. That was not allowed. So he's simultaneously changing the rules to make it better for them while personally investing.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

But to this, I look to Congress, and here's why. Because shamelessness is Donald Trump's superpower, okay? If it looks bad or smells bad, he doesn't care. That means nothing to him unless it's truly illegal. And even if it is, I mean, it's debatable what he's gonna do there. But this argument that we're hearing back, like, Trump's trading stocks, you know, Congress can trade stocks like we had. We have been talking, right? Since I started covering politics in 2015, we've been talking about Banning or limiting congressional stock trading. Right. The answer shouldn't be, yes, Trump's doing it. You don't like it. Well, members of Congress do it, too. None of them should.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Okay. Journalists who. Journalists that cover businesses, that cover companies do not buy and sell shares of those companies. Officers, board members of publicly traded companies have an enormous amount of restrictions.

[Tim Miller]

My dad, who retired this week, congratulations to him as a mutual fund manager, doesn't go trade stocks on his own. That he's trading in the mutual fund. That's unethical. You can't trade, but.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Exactly. And so to me, this is so hugely disappointing that we've yet to see any regulation around congressional stock trading. Look what the President is doing. And I just think it's absolutely galling that we don't see anything move on this.

[Tim Miller]

This is when people say, what can Democrats do when they get back into power? One thing that I've been focusing on, because, you know, it's my bag as a former oppo man as was, like, how can the Democrats be more like Trey Gowdy and investigate what Jared Kushner and Ivanka are doing in Albania and What the.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Don Jr. All right, you mean Benghazi style?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, Benghazi style. That's what they need to do. But the other thing they can do is assuming they take, you know, let's say that they have the House representatives, right, Forcing the Republicans to vote on that. Now, that. That means that they're gonna have to take a little bit of a hit on themselves, right? Like passing some kind of stock trading act that doesn't. That bans Congress, but also bans whatever members of the Cabinet or you name, you figure out what is appropriate from trading stocks and putting it on the floor, voting for it, making Republicans decide whether to vote for it or not, and then using it as an issue, and then maybe if the Senate can get it passed, forcing Donald Trump to veto it, this is what you can do when you're in the majority in Congress, but the other party's got the

[Stephanie Ruhle]

White House until now, until it was so, so over the top from Trump. I think the American people, the American voter hasn't demanded change yet in terms of congressional stock trading or what the President can do. Because by and large, I think the American voter, while they never like it when they hear about it, they're basically focused on themselves. They're not in a bad way, but they're like, can I afford health care? How's my kids school? Like what? You know, what are the rules and regulations that impact my daily life. And that's their top priority when they're saying this is who I'm voting for and this is what I want. Like I don't think in the past while I've talked about it, you know, till my ears tongue fell out, I don't think there's a huge American voting bloc demanding let's close the carried interest loophole, let's you know, ban congressional stock trading. But yes, yes, there absolutely should be. But I think now things have gotten so over the top. And when you think about the now sort of the, the rage against the billionaire eat the rich sentiment, it's real. It's more real than it has ever been in your lifetime or my lifetime. And so I think that we could see voters, it's unclear specifically where they are demanding change. And well, I would just say this, the people that have to be responsible for this change aren't actually the billionaires. They're the freaking lawmakers, okay, who, because they get a little bit of money here and a little bit of money there, continue to look the other way while the American people struggle and the mega wealthy are getting mega, mega wealthier.

[Tim Miller]

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[Stephanie Ruhle]

They're just cutting the lobbying firm out completely. Correct. Because now you can call this administration direct and you can pay to play. And where it's I'm going to say I'm going to give you two places where you're seeing enormous impact. Obviously look at it in these primaries, in these midterms, right. Thomas Massie's race was the most expensive we've seen in history. And where do the biggest checks come from? People who are never even setting foot in the state of Kentucky.

[Tim Miller]

It's pro Israel and big tech. That was it. Like those are the two.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yeah. So it's Silicon Valley in New York when Ken Paxton one, it was funny, I kept hearing people Say, I'm not sure how this is going to go financially because John Cornyn's really a great fundraiser. Fundraiser from traditional big Texas money. This is not any traditional game anymore. Tech money, AI money, crypto money is so big at this point, these people can't even count the zeros. So they're happy to cut a check. And you can give two really recent examples. Look at AI, right? Donald Trump was feeling a huge amount of pressure because actual American voters were saying, no data center in my backyard. This isn't working for me. So he's like, okay, okay, okay, I'm gonna sign this executive order. And within hours before signing it, all these AI chiefs are going, boop, boop, boop, Boop, 1, 800, TRUMP and he goes, no, no, no, no, I'm gonna pause, I'm not gonna do that yet. And now the executive order he's signing basically says, you guys need to self regulate and if you choose not to, that's okay too. It's not just we're a company and we're gonna hire a government policy guy to try to influence things. No, you're just gonna pay to get things done. And you can look at the state of Texas now filled with super wealthy people who don't wanna pay taxes in the state of California. So now they've moved to Texas, right? Many of those people who've moved to Texas, we've all sat next to at dinner parties. And you know what they're looking at in their phone, their app that is counting how many nights they're sleeping in California or in New York and Texas because they want to avoid paying taxes. And these are the people that are now having huge, huge influence over regulations in these states. And I think it's so alarming. I don't know what we're going to do to make it go away. I don't think there's anything to do to make it go away. The only thing that can is, is the American voter can say, big money gets you lots of things, but it does not guarantee you a win. So the American people have to stay informed and engaged. They have no choice. I mean, they're fighting the big money at this point.

[Tim Miller]

I want to give this example of this where I'm a rare optimist on things. There is a little bit of a countervailing force here and I should say this does basically nothing for the next two years. Forget Vegas, it's Macau, it's whatever. There are no rules in D.C. right now. Long as Trump is in there. The rich VCs and the AI VCs can buy off whoever they want and they're gonna be able to get whatever they want through 2029.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

At this moment, while I do believe it's very shortsighted of them, it works.

[Tim Miller]

It's working.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Can we just give the Michael Dell example in the event that our audience doesn't know it? Okay, Michael Dell and his wife.

[Tim Miller]

Just don't let me forget, I do have positive news, so we have to come back to it.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

But do Michael Dell $6 billion to the Trump accounts and many people would argue the Trump accounts are a great idea, blah, blah, blah, what happens next? Donald Trump buys a house.

[Tim Miller]

They are a good idea. It's just we shouldn't put his name on it. We're not North Korea.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yes, yes, yes. They donate $6 billion. Thank you. Great. Fantastic. Lo and behold, Michael Dell gets a nine and a half billion dollar government contract. Is it a coincidence? I don't know. But once you get a nice big, fat juicy contract like that from the government, it doesn't go away. Now, do I think Michael Dell is a crook for doing it? This is the game he can play in the world of Donald Trump.

[Tim Miller]

He's skeevy. It's a little skeevy.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

So we're in this moment where you can give to Donald Trump and get huge rewards. So this works for the top, top, top business people out there. But imagine, Tim, if you even ran a big ish business but didn't have frankincense and mirth and gold to bring to Donald Trump, if you didn't have something giant to offer, this isn't a great time for business. So make your point.

[Tim Miller]

That's right. No, we should add one element to the Dell story to make it even skeevier, which is Trump talked about how people should go buy a Dell, buy a Dell, and simultaneously, One of those 3,700 stock trades that he did the first three months was a very significant investment into Dell, which has done very well for Donald Trump. So he continues to cash in personally?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yeah, I mean, I think Dell's up in the last week, 30%. So this is my point. If you run a company and your stock is suddenly up 30% and Republicans or some lawmaker wants a big check from you, it's really easy for you to say yes.

[Tim Miller]

Here's the positive and the signs that they've kind of overplayed their hand. So they're gonna be able to do corrupt deals the next two years. It's incumbent upon the Democrats to be on Them for journalists to be on them, et cetera. But Adam Carlson, who's a good social media account, I follow, is kind of monitoring elections, made this point about Big Tech this morning. Big Tech put their weight behind Matt Mahan in California. GOV. He got 4%. I actually like Matt Mahan. I think that he kind of got screwed by. This was a bad choice of sidling himself up to Big Tech, frankly. He's been a good mayor. But this shows you just how toxic Big Tech is in certain areas. Big Tech put their weight behind Ethan Agarwal against Ro khanna. He got 6% OpenAI and anti AI regulation. Big tech leaders have tried to make an example out of Alex Borres, who's running against George Conway in New York 12. They elevated him to co frontrunner Borres. And that's that competitive race that has Jack Schlossberg and George Floyd.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Have you interviewed Alex Borres yet?

[Tim Miller]

Well, it's one of those things where my whole podcast becomes primary interviews once I take one. You know, you gotta do everybody. And so I wait till the general. But why have you talked to him?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I have. And again, not to bring up heated rivalry, but he is a dead ringer for Scott Hunter. Like, if this election doesn't work out.

[Tim Miller]

He does look like Scott hunter.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

He could 100% be doing Scott Hunter lookalike contests and winning. No, he could. He's a super smart.

[Tim Miller]

If I had a dot, if I had a dollar for every mom at school or mom in the MSNBC green room who wanted to talk to me about heated rivalry, which is my culture, then maybe I'd have enough fuck you money to be buying elections. Because all you ladies are trying to just insert yourself into gay culture. All right? Can we not have something. Can we not have two men kissing for ourselves?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

It's just an incredible show. Moving on, moving on. But listen, you're making great points. Just because it's big money, it doesn't necessarily mean it wins elections. But I guess my point is. Yes, yes, well. Cause they're taking it so far.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, right. Sometimes you look at all this and I feel this way. You look at the Elon situation. I was talking to JVL yesterday about Elon for a while. So we don't need to rehash the whole thing. Just how NASDAQ has given them the friendly deal with the SpaceX IPO. And Elon Musk did. He broke all the campaign finance rules, started a super pac. They coordinated. Nobody investigated it. You know, helped Donald Trump get elected. Helped get Himself inside the White House now is going to become a trillionaire because he has inside deals. It's easy for me to look at that and feel like, well, fuck, we have no power in the face of this type of wealth. And I do think it's challenging to push back against it. But there's a pendulum to these sorts of things. And I do think it's possible that like the backlash, like that we're on the precipice of a backlash and that there is political power that is possible. But I mean, it's not gonna stop Elon from getting a trillion. His situation is insane.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

No, no, no. And I think you could be right. And listen, this extraordinary wealth transfer when we have the SpaceX IPO will be mind blowing. But I'm gonna make this small wonky comment that I think could contribute to, to the backlash that you're talking about. When companies go public, okay, they're usually on the rise. The reason they're going public is they're going from small to medium and suddenly they're going public. So they have, they then have public investment and they then will have the means to grow. Right, so you are buying.

[Tim Miller]

It's financing. Yeah.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yes. That's great. So you're investing in an IPO and it's. And a company's going to IPO at $30 with the hope that their plans for the future, where they're going to grow, that stock's going to be at $100, like. Right, that's what you're thinking. These companies, whether it's OpenAI or SpaceX or Anthropic, they're already capitalized. But this is my point, they're going public at the peak. So what we. Listen, I could be wrong, but what we could end up seeing is they go public, right? A huge amount of individuals are then basically handing over money to all of the private investors of Elon Musk who are gonna walk away with bags of cash. And it's unclear where the room is to grow. They're already capitalized.

[Tim Miller]

That's depressing.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

It's depressing in terms of. But I'm saying this could lead to the backlash that we're talking about.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, for sure. The counterpoint to that is, is the stock market even real? Is capitalism real? Tesla stock continues to go up based upon essentially nothing like hype and buzz and Elon's magic sauce. And if you look at their actual revenue to, you know, the PE ratio not to get nerdy on our non non finance podcast, like compare it to the other Companies at the top of SB 500. Like, I saw a chart the other day where it's like Elon's ratio is like here and everybody else is down here. And so I don't know, can those companies just keep going up on Hype and Buzz and Hopium?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Listen, a long time ago I would have said, no, we've gone so far. But I was wrong. Like everything has been meme stockified or everything in, in the Elon or super tech world. And listen, AI is absolutely our future, but that doesn't mean that we're not seeing huge overinvestment right now. We might be. And you know when people say, can the stock market just keep growing? We have to keep reminding people it's this sliver of giant, giant tech companies that are performing, performing, performing. There are lots of big companies out there that are struggling. They are struggling because of tariffs, they're struggling because of inflation, they are struggling because of our immigration laws. Now we have seen strong corporate earnings. AI is definitely going to help a lot of companies like improve productivity and optimize. But where the stock market is versus where the real world is. In my years working in markets and covering markets, I have not seen a bigger divide than what we're seeing right now. And I actually think you're hopefully starting to see some business leaders at least acknowledge this huge divide and saying, like, are we going to address this at some point somewhere?

[Tim Miller]

Is someone Hype can pop? I just pulled up the Ethereum stock chart. Crypto has had a rough little run. Ethereum's down 47% over the last six months. When the market, the rest of the stock market is up and a lot of other stocks in kind of that space are up. Bitcoin and crypto have had downturns before, but it's inotable.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yes, but I mean, even think about how optimistic investors have been since the war in Iran began. Right?

[Tim Miller]

How do you explain this?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Here's how. Because they're all, I mean, so many who I talk to are legitimately, like, you know what, I talked to Trump just last night. He's really done with the war. And I'm like, great, he's done with it.

[Tim Miller]

Have they talked to the irgc? This is the notice number over there.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

When you hear from the Chevron CEO, when you hear from big oil CEO,

[Tim Miller]

well, I understand why they're happy. I understand why they're happy. But what about those?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

But I'm saying you understand why they're happy, but they're the ones who are actually being intellectually honest about where oil prices are. And every other investor out there is like, listen, this is about betting on the future. And they know that Donald Trump will go to extraordinary measures for real or through smoke and mirrors to try to keep the markets intact. So they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just talked to him or Besson or Howard. Like, he's really ready to leave. And I'm like, babe, this isn't like, Trump's ready to leave the party. And he called an Uber. So it's over. Trump may be ready to leave Iran, and I think he's been ready to be done with Iran for at least eight or nine weeks. It doesn't end that way.

[Tim Miller]

And we had more attacks this week. Like Wednesday. We attacked them, they attacked Qatar, they attacked the airport in Kuwait, they attacked Bahrain.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

And what do we do? We just decided to redefine what we call a ceasefire. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

And oil prices are down. Oil prices are down. Just in the last five days.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Yes. But I think part of that is based on the belief or the assumption that Trump does want to get the hell out of there.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Okay, well, good luck.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Good luck. Good luck. And tell us what is actually in this peace agreement, because we never know. And when we hear it, it hasn't made much sense.

[Tim Miller]

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[Stephanie Ruhle]

No, I mean, listen, this is, this is a good jobs report. To me, it means it's going to make it harder and harder for Kevin Warsh to lower rates because we are still in a pretty inflationary environment. You know, it also touches this idea that AI is going to wipe out jobs. I think AI is Going to transform a lot of jobs. I think that AI is going to a lot of lower skilled jobs that pay the lowest, that have the most amount of turnover. We may see go away and it's an opportunity for upskilling and higher skilled jobs. What I think is missing and what I would love for a portion of the government or even business leaders to start to address every time we're seeing a city and a state panicked over the data centers and they can be, I'd like to start hearing from the government. Here are all the opportunities to upskill. Right. You know, every administration talks about like we're bringing vocational schools back and blah blah, blah, blah blah.

[Tim Miller]

Well, this one does it too.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

All the wiping out of agencies and organizations. Yes. I'd love a long term planning group around. Here's what AI is potentially going to do to work life play in the country. Here's where we're gonna start to think about jobs. Because we are still feeling the negative impacts of globalization and the hollowing out of manufacturing in America. We didn't address that correctly the first time around. We're potentially on the precipice of that happening again to jobs in this country. So we have two choices. We can hide our end of the desk and say AI don't come, don't come, don't come. Or we can ignore the American people's fears and just keep plowing ahead because we say winning the AI race is everything. Or actually choose a third lane and put together a group with some long term planning of how we're going to address this.

[Tim Miller]

I think this is so cute. Steph, that's why I love you. It's like you think that our government can do long term planning.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I know, Listen, it's not just our

[Tim Miller]

but by the way, just yesterday Donald Trump brought people in the White House like chart our pool bigger than your building. We're coming up with an AI regulation plan.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

No, you're right.

[Tim Miller]

Jobs upskilling.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Great.

[Tim Miller]

I'm for you. I'm with you. You got a great job. Sounds great.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Nobody is long term, right? Our CEOs aren't long term. We live in a world of ultimate, ultimate short termism because everybody has to get elected next year and meet a quarterly earnings report next month. So there is no long term planning. But that's exactly where the American people we should be excited about how the extraordinary potential of AI but instead we're panicked about what it's going to do to our jobs. Wouldn't it be great if we addressed it?

[Tim Miller]

There was one Corruption story. I didn't get to because podcasting with you is like.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

There's just so many.

[Tim Miller]

I can't even get to. There's so many corruption stories, and there are a million. There's one in particular I want to get to because you shared it and I had missed it, which shows you the scale of corruption. It's a random thing. It's a small thing. Mike Levin, Democratic Congressman from San Diego, is kind of a sleeper. He's been pretty good on all this. He posted this, and you reported on it. This is what's happening with the airport in Palm Beach. Have you been to the airport in Palm Beach?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Not recently, but I have been there many times.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Have you?

[Tim Miller]

I have been there not many times. Yeah, I kind of.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

It's a nice, easy, small airport.

[Tim Miller]

I like a beach. A small beach airport. You know, you go outside, you can smell the ocean. That's nice. It's charming. They renamed it after Donald Trump. I didn't realize this part of that, though. As part of that, he got the trademark and the licensing rights to the airport. And so he gets to profit off merchandise sold there. Not just like the Donald Trump MAGA shirts, but, like, if somebody. If a tourist flies in, it's like, I want a Palm beach airport hat, even if it doesn't say Donald Trump's name on it. Donald Trump now gets a licensing fee on that. This is a public sector service. It's not like you bought a hotel. This is a fucking airport. This is a public service. Anyway, the story got even worse. Ron Desanctimonious got involved with this. The county staff told the commissioners that they wanted to reject the name change or change the rules around the licensing. And DeSantis told them that that would put their transportation funding at risk. They wouldn't get their road repair money from the state government. That's an insane story.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

This is an insane story, and it's happening right under our noses. We're missing it. And the fact that this administration and the president's family business is so brazen and willing to do this should make you afraid of what they're doing that you're not even aware of. Right? And what makes me so disappointed, just think about in the last 24 hours where I thought, Donald Trump's $1.8 billion slush fund is never happening. It's going away. You're gonna finally see Republicans like the Bill Cassidys or the Thom Tillises, who have all but been discarded by Donald Trump. They're gonna stand up and they're Not. And I just don't understand why I

[Tim Miller]

wanna get to that one more thing just on the airport. Because this is why this bothers me. I think in some ways it's almost. I almost wanna give them respect.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Cause you'd like to have a Palm Beach International Airport hat, and now you don't want to be that way.

[Tim Miller]

In theory, maybe that's not it. But why it bugs me is I almost wanna tip the cap of respect to this petty level of made a multi billion dollar crypto deal and the UAE is paying them off. They're making ungodly amounts of money, generational wealth. Barron's grandchildren will have trickle down money from the amount of corruption that they have done. Barron's great grandchildren, assuming he ever sires a child, I guess. And they're nickel and diming us for licensing fees at the Palm beach airport. Like what?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Okay, that's the killer. To me, that's the killer. I'm like, listen, you won the game in terms of grip. Like, you now are worth a multiple of what you were worth when you were lying saying you were super rich. You are now mega, mega, mega wealthy. And still you're like, I gotta scrape one extra nickel from you at the moment.

[Tim Miller]

You want 10% off the mug?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I'm like, you 10% off the mug? Yes.

[Tim Miller]

It's crazy. I'm not built that one.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

But okay, but that. But babe, that goes right back to all the times, whether it's the ballroom or anything else, where Trump says, I'm gonna pay for that with my own money. And then he never, ever, ever does. Just remember this, okay? If you're wondering, like, where did this come from in Donald Trump's first term, Remember, Trump's family foundation was disbanded, was made defunct by a New York judge for misusing funds that they said were going to charity as part of the punishment. I believe the officers on the family foundation, and it was Ivanka and at least one or two of the other, I think it was Ivanka And Eric, for 10 years, weren't even allowed. Maybe the 10 years are still going on. To sit on the board of a nonprofit because they misused money that they had raised for their family foundation that they said was going to charity. If someone's willing to do that, then you bet your bottom dollar they're gonna scrape an extra nickel off that hat you're buying at the Palm beach airport.

[Tim Miller]

Back to the slush fund. It's crazy. Back to the slush fund you mentioned. So I did a whole separate video on this. If people want the long story, but just the short of it is, so they had this Votorama around the reconciliation bill. They have one chance this year to fund the things that Trump wants. They did get the ballrooms out of this, but it's mostly the ICE funding that the Democrats had blocked earlier this year with the shutdown. So now this is their only chance to pass something without Democratic votes in the year. And so they're going to jam all the money for the ICE and CBP in there and then a bunch of other goodies for other stuff that Republicans want. Okay, so you can only lose three Republicans, like assuming every Democrat votes against it. All right, you can only lose three Republicans on this stuff. And there are three Republicans in particular that are in the Senate, that are up in very contested elections. Susan in Maine. We'll get to that next. John Husted in Ohio and Dan Sullivan in Alaska, running as Mary Peltola. And so the three of them don't really want the baggage of having to vote for Donald Trump's slush fund because they don't want the ads about how you're getting poor. And dan Sullivan gave $1.8 billion of your money to Donald Trump's pals. Right. And so Bill Cassidy and Thom Tillis, who have said that they are the brave ones now that they're the, you know, they're the ones that are going to speak truth to power on the way out, they put amendments up to stop the slush fund. And so did Chuck Schumer on the Democratic side. And Cassidy and Tillis do the DC Bullshit. They vote for their amendment. Okay? They had different things. I think Tillis wanted to give the slush fund something else. And Cassidy had specific rules around it. Whatever, it doesn't matter. They had their own amendments. They voted for theirs. So they can say, hey, I voted to slap the slush fund. But on the one amendment that had the chance to pass, that needed four Republicans to vote with Chuck Schumer and the Democrats on it, they both let the three vulnerable senators vote with the Democrats, and they voted to protect the slush fund. So the slush fund goes forward.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Okay, then you know Republicans better than I do. Why would they do that?

[Tim Miller]

Why would they do that? I think that because it's a country club. And Bill Cassidy might be mad at Donald Trump, but he doesn't want John Husted to be mad at him. He doesn't want his boy Dan Sullivan to be mad at him. And Susan Collins, who wants to give them a little gift, and so he let them do it, you know, he rationalized. Power of rationalization. It's so pathetic though, one of those guys with the three could have killed it. They could have, you know, is going to, you know, codify whatever the rule is into legislation that the slush fund is over. And so now it's still like in the courts. And who knows, maybe next year Trump reanimates it. We'll see. But it's off for now. But it could have been off forever.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I think your country club analogy is a perfect one where they have the opportunity to do the right thing. And they're like, but if I do the right thing, who am I gonna get to eat lunch with next week? Cuz I don't wanna eat lunch with Chuck Schumer and Andy Beshear. Like, even if Trump's mad at me now, if I kind of do this sort of thing and he a little bit forgives me, maybe I could go to a party at Mar a Lago. Maybe I could be in the gang again. Maybe I can get some lobbying hustle. Maybe I can get some lobbying hustle.

[Tim Miller]

Lobbying hustle. I want them to answer my calls. I want my Republican buddies to answer my calls next year when I'm lobbying for Johnson and Johnson or whatever.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

So they're looking out and saying, well, I'm not gonna have inside information next year or I'm not gonna have this gig. What's my next chapter? And their next chapter of making money or real money certainly isn't with the American voter or Democrats. So they need to keep the water warm for themselves. I mean, it was amazing to me. The day after Bill Cassidy lost, he comes out and is like, I'm not sure I feel great about Iran. Really, Bill? Well, what happened in the 24 hour period before and after you lost in Iran, that changed. And the answer is nothing.

[Tim Miller]

I want to do a little bit of politics. I have this section of my notes

[Stephanie Ruhle]

is called this Wasn't politics.

[Tim Miller]

No, no, like campaign politics, more just raw politics. Rank politics. That was policy, corruption, laws. This is. Now we're just talking about campaigns. This section is campaigns and fuckboys. And so people can take fuckboy as a pejorative or not. It's just a descriptive term. I've got two people we're gonna talk about in the fuckboy section.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

What does it describe?

[Tim Miller]

You don't know a fuckboy when you see one?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

If it's a descriptive. No, but, no, but I turn to you if, if fboy is just a, is just a descriptor.

[Tim Miller]

It's kind of like you know, one. If you see one, you know, it's a guy that likes to party. You know, it's a certain type of guy that likes to party, likes to go through women, have a good time with them. That could be there. There are malicious fuck boys. They're affable fuckboys.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Got it, got it.

[Tim Miller]

It's. It's like porn. You just know. You know it when you see it.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

You know it when you see it. Is an F. Is an fboy. Straight.

[Tim Miller]

Straight. Yeah, yeah. Straight. Yes, yes.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Got it. All right, all right.

[Tim Miller]

The first one, obviously, we're talking about is Graham Platner. Well, there are three of them, actually. Graham Platner, Spencer Pratt. No surprise, Graham Platner. There's the big New York Times story yesterday, which we've talked about ad nauseam. The gist of it is there are times talked to, I think, six of his ex girlfriends. Three of them said he was a swell guy. Two of them said he was toxic and volcanic and he drank a lot. One of them, who also does have to be a Republican operative, we should say she's a Republican operative. She is the one that said that he touched her like that. He physically grabbed her and pulled her out of a Uber aggressively and one time threw her into a room and shut the door. But the only one that says that there was a physical element to this is the one that happens to be Republican. That doesn't mean it's not true or not. It's just, we should. Like, that's just the reality. So he was on with your colleague Chris Hayes last night. It was a really good interview. If you care about this and want to assess these accusations of his defense, you should watch the interview because Chris was, I think, really went through all of the elements of the story and all the other accusations pretty meticulously, and Platner responded to them. I was on talking about it after, and I just wanna revise and extend my remarks on one point a little bit because I.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Well, why don't you tell us what you said just in case people hadn't have watched it.

[Tim Miller]

Sure. Thank you.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Okay.

[Tim Miller]

I think that this is a big risk to go with Graham Platner in Maine. If you're the Democratic voters, like, Maine is a very important state. Our democracy's on the line. Democrats, to take the Senate, need to win four Senate seats. Maine should be the easiest one. It's the one that Democrats. Democrats won in 2016, 20 and 2024. All these other states have been in states Trump won. So ostensibly, you just need Democrats to win. And so it's kind of a strange state to take a risk on. I simultaneously think that Graham Platter has been a very talented candidate, and the people of Maine obviously like him. And he's offered a message that resonates with people, which is that he's fucking pissed about the oligarchs, he's pissed about people getting screwed over. And he offered a way more compelling message than Janet Mills, who feels like she wanted to be anointed to the seats. Like, we're a French aristocracy. And I understand why the people of Maine resonate with. So I just think that those two facts can just live side by side. Right? Which is he's been a good candidate that people have resonated with. It also feels a little risky given what we know and what we don't know. And to the what we don't know. The one thing I just wish I would have said last night is on the topic of the tattoo, which I've talked about a lot, I don't really care about it. Like, I think when he got it, it was, he's probably a fuckboy having fun. He's in the military. Looks like a skull and crossbones. It looks badass. I don't think he's a Nazi. He doesn't have any other Nazi traits. As I've mentioned several times, this administration sent people with tattoos to a foreign gulag, which is much more Nazi ish to me than Graham Platner's tattoo. That said, he's lying about it. In the New York Times story, this ex.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Wait, you're saying he's lying about the tattoo or he's lying about the women?

[Tim Miller]

He's lying about the tattoo. He's lying about not knowing that it was a Nazi tattoo. When Chris asked him last night, he said, hey, the New York Times reviewed texts between one of your exes and her friends from, like last year before you. In Grand Planner story, he says, last October, someone came to him and said, this is a Nazi tattoo. He was like, oh, my God, I didn't know that. And I covered it up. That's basically his story. Previous to that, one of his girlfriend ex girlfriends was texting with her friends, like, oh, my God. He's like, I wonder what's going to happen with his Totenkopf or what? I don't have the text in front of me, but she was texting previous to this being in the news. I know that. What do you think he's going to do about his Nazi tattoo, which Chris Hayes is Asking him, and he's just like, graham, why did she know before you? And his answer was, not great. I wasn't convinced. And so I just want to say, sometimes in politics, people spin. A lot of politicians lie. If you like Graham Platner, that's fine, but I think everyone just should look at. At the reality of this, which is, in my view, which is like, he's obviously lying about that, and that means that who knows what else. It is a risk. It's a very important state and it's risky and we don't know what else. The Times obviously did a lot of reporting on this, and maybe this is all there is, but it's a risk. So I understand the appeal, but, man, boy, if you're signing up for this one, it's a little bit of a lottery ticket and not necessarily a good one.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

In terms of Graham and Spencer Pratt, I actually think their success, whether they win or not, will put aside, but their success is so much more about the American people than it is about these two men. That these are two absolute 100% out, out, out, outsiders. I mean, Spencer Pratt, truly, the last thing he was doing was selling crystals tied to the Mayan apocalypse. And the reason people know him is because he was sort of a villain on a vapid Cali reality show. But the fact that these guys, outsiders like this, are getting so much support. And to your point, like, these are really important governing jobs where you need to understand how these cities work, how these states work hugely.

[Tim Miller]

Mayor, even more than Senator, really. And as senator, you're just kind of one guy, but mayor in particular. Yeah.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Do you know, I think, funny, Chris Hayes actually said this during commercial the other night, and he's like, you know, if suddenly I had to wake up tomorrow and someone said, hey, Chris, you're gonna have to head down to Washington, be a senator. He's like, I could do that. Like, I think I could pull it off. And he's like, but if I had to wake up tomorrow and be the mayor of my city, that's a really hard, complicated job. And LA is like, you know what? I agree with what Spencer Platt said about the fires. I'm pissed, too. I'm going with him. But my point is because traditional lawmakers, or just Democrats or Republicans, need to listen to the American people who are willing to say, I'll take a Spencer Pratt, okay? Just because he's speaking, not giving them a policy solution, nothing about expertise, but just for the sheer fact that he's saying this effing sucks, you're ruining one of the greatest cities in America. Look what this fire did to us. The fact that just that message is resonating so much with people. Just has to get these parties together of, like, what we're doing in this prescribed way isn't working.

[Tim Miller]

Spencer Pride is going to lose that La Mayor's, which I find kind of delicious. And I don't know if you know, this audio engineer. Jason was in a band and one of the songs that he wrote was in what was the stupid show he was on, the Hills. That was Jason's claim to fame. So there you go. You know, we're bringing it here to the podcast. My last thing, just as an aside on Graham, is I'm gay. I'm not a woman. And Alyssa slots.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

You are.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I'm a homosexual. So, you know, sometimes I have blind spots. Sarah brings this up to me all the time. My women, blind spots. I try really hard. I have a daughter. I'm trying really hard, but sometimes I have blind spots. Alyssa Slotkin said something on TV yesterday when I was on with her on Nicole, where she was asked about this, and her answer is kind of funny because it was like. It was almost like she didn't have anything to say on the merits. She was just like, I can't believe that I'm a senator as a woman, and I've achieved all this and I still have to answer for and apologize for, like, a guy, like, doing shit like this. And it did kind of resonate with me a little bit that that is a little bit the nature. It's hard to see a woman with these. You know, I don't even know what a woman version of these accusations would be, but it's hard to see them

[Stephanie Ruhle]

in the U.S. yes, yes, yes. Maybe the messiness of this thing.

[Tim Miller]

Maybe we'll get a messy bitch who lives for drama in the Senate sometime soon, is what you're saying.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Maybe. I mean, to everyone, it's just like, well, listen, like Platners, sort of, you know, they were mad. Like, why is the media covering this? Let's cover the issues. Like. Yes, let's cover the issues and let's clean it all up and move on.

[Tim Miller]

Kids, people are covering the issues in the North Carolina and Alaska and Iowa Senate race because those candidates don't have these other things that they're forcing the media to talk about. So I guess that's what I would say to the platinum people. Hunter Biden is mad at me. Do you know this?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Okay, why is he mad at you? And I would just like to say Hunter Biden. Be quiet. Yes. Or.

[Tim Miller]

Or be allowed to come on my show. Hunter, we could hash this out. Why is he mad at. I don't know. Well, I know, but I don't know what prompted it. Some. Some person. He's tweeting a lot right now. Like way more than me. If you're tweeting more than me, it's too much like, I'm tweeting them. I'm not even tweeting them. I'm tweeting too much.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

What good comes of Hunter Biden tweeting?

[Tim Miller]

Self actualization?

[Stephanie Ruhle]

What good comes for Joe Biden of Hunter Biden going to a state dinner? What good comes for the Biden family and their legacy of Hunter Biden all over Twitter and saying, who could be mad at sweet little you, Tim?

[Tim Miller]

Great question. Well, somebody tweeted at him, a Hunter friend, Hunter, Stan. And saying all of these pundits, the Stephanie rules, the people saying. And they didn't say your name, but the people saying this kind of stuff, the people criticizing you, like, they're so lame. And Hunter replies to that person. So true. Pundits are truly exhausting. Just go listen to Tim Miller or the Pod Bros and you'll want to start smoking crack, which is kind of funny. Kind of funny. I guess. Interesting that his name. My name is the top of his mind. I don't think I have any crack smoking listeners, but if I do shout out. I appreciate that I'm entertaining you while you're on a bender.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Here's what I would say to you if you, Tim Miller, subscribe to the Donald Trump all press is good press. Well, then this is your opportunity to say Hunter Biden, thank you.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I think he should. Come on. I'd like to talk to him. I think that Hunter and his defenders struggle to internalize the critiques of him. And so I'll just say this briefly, which is my critique of him is not about his behavior really. When he was on crack. I don't have a lot of friends that do crack, but I have a lot of buddies that have made bad choices in their life and went through drug periods and are in recovery. And I get it. You want to go hang out in a Motel 8 off I95 and party. That's a personal choice. His personal choice became our problem when he inserted himself into a very, very important reelection campaign. And he caused a lot of problems for his father. And then after his father caused a lot of problems for himself, Hunter was the one in the Oval Office apparently telling him that he should stay in the race and that America. And it's just like, that was my issue with Hunter. If Hunter was just out in the hotel rooms doing whatever he was doing, we have the pictures from. Like, I would have no issues with that. Whatever, bro. Like, but he was trying to trade on influence, and he hurt his father, and it hurt the reelection. It helped Donald Trump. He helped Donald Trump. So that's my criticism of Hunter. Hopefully we can come hash it out.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I hope this will lead to Hunter sitting down with you. I mean, he sat down with Candace Owens. Why not you?

[Tim Miller]

Exactly. We can do a gummy. I want to ask him about Brigitte Macron's dick. All right, we're out of time. So we have.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

I'm glad we're out of time.

[Tim Miller]

On that note, I had two funny media things, though. Do you want to make fun of Mike Lindell or Sean Hannity? We'll just do one a little closer. We need a little dessert.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Let's go with Mike Lindell.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, so Nancy Pelosi.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Oh, this is what I was hoping it was.

[Tim Miller]

Was walking through the Hill yesterday. And I don't know if you know this, but Mike Lindell, the pillow guy, has a media outlet, Lindell TV, that is still talking with the 2020 election.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

If he gets a check from the $1.8 billion slush fund, that media company might grow.

[Tim Miller]

And he hires young women who are kind of good looking to run around the Hill and ask people questions about the imaginary election fraud of 2020. One of those reporters, reporters scare quotes encountered Nancy Pelosi this week, and this is what happened.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Why was your daughter filming you on January 6th? Why don't you get away? These are just questions the American people want answers to. You know what? I don't even think you're a real journalist. You work for Mike the Pillow Man. I do, and we're very proud. Don't consider that journalism like the pillow Man. That's not journalism. I don't have any reason to talk to you. Okay, you know what? Here's what I'm here for. I am here for Nancy Pelosi's beautiful burnt orange Max Mara suit right there. I'm here for her. Fantastic blowout. And turn it to that young woman and say, you work for that my pillow man. I mean, like, you never count Nancy Pelosi out. That's all I gotta say.

[Tim Miller]

The best.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Remember, this woman ran for office when she was 45 years old and already a mother of four. Don't say, like Nancy from San Francisco. That Right there is Nancy from Baltimore.

[Tim Miller]

That's right. I tweeted yesterday that I don't know that anybody in basketball has grown on me more than Karl Anthony Towns. He did this beautiful interview after game one where he was talking about the woman upstairs and he's also thinking about his mother. And I'm going to cry talking about it. And I used to hate Carl Anthony Townes and he's grown on me. Nancy Pelosi is my Carl Anthony Towns with politics. She was enemy number one back when I was a Republican. And that she's tough. I love her.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

It was beautiful when you get to know her, but that's it. And even if you don't like her politics, damn, it's tough to count Nancy out.

[Tim Miller]

It is wonderful. Stephanie Rule, what a treat. We'll figure out a way for me to get on that show. I don't know, maybe I'll have to pre tape or something. You might have to apologize to the list. If I have to pre tape the show and big news happens overnight, you'll have to owe them an apology. But we'll figure out a way to do it because I think they're to.

[Stephanie Ruhle]

Maybe we'll air the episode on this podcast because you're going to light it up like a Christmas tree.

[Tim Miller]

I love it. Stephanie Rule, congrats. Good luck on the new show. Everybody else, it's Friday. Have a good weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday with Bill Crystal. Peace. Fuck boys you'll never meet. Well, you can thank them for a while. So God damn reactionary. And for the graveyard in my stomach. The Borg podcast is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Katie Lutz and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.