The Bulwark Podcast
Susan Glasser: An Exercise in National Humiliation
Date: August 26, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Susan Glasser, New Yorker staff writer, co-author of The Divider
Episode Overview
This episode features a wide-ranging conversation between Tim Miller and Susan Glasser, analyzing the latest developments in American politics under Donald Trump’s second presidential term. They focus particularly on the president’s apparent efforts to undermine and exact retribution against independent institutions and political critics, the entanglement of federal power with personal vendettas, institutional purges, the U.S.–Russia relationship and national humiliation, and the militarization of American cities. Throughout, Glasser draws on her extensive background covering both Washington and Moscow to provide historical and personal perspectives.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump’s Move to Fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook
- Topic Introduction: Trump publicly announced the removal of Lisa Cook, the first Black woman Fed governor, citing unsubstantiated accusations about her mortgages.
- Legal and Economic Implications:
- Tim Miller highlights that legally, the president can only remove a Fed governor for "cause," and the accusation is a stretch ([02:45]).
- Glasser sees this as part of Trump’s broader war on institutional independence, particularly the Fed, and a dangerous breakdown of governmental norms:
- "Donald Trump is seeking to break this idea of its independence..." ([03:21])
- Miller notes the economic impact, with the dollar tanking following the announcement ([04:28]).
Key Quote
"It's really a remarkable sign of the failure of process, institutions, laws, norms, any constraints on the presidency."
– Susan Glasser ([05:20])
2. Rise of Loyalists and "Gangster Government"
- Example of Bill Pulte:
- Pulte, a MAGA-aligned private equity exec appointed to head the Federal Housing Finance Agency, accuses Cook and others of mortgage fraud, referring them for DOJ investigation ([07:33]).
- Glasser explains how social media stunts and sycophancy become tickets to real power in Trump’s Washington ([08:54]).
- Incentive Structure:
- Miller describes Pulte’s behavior as both "insane" and "the playbook for getting inside Donald Trump's good graces" ([10:31]).
Key Quote
"We're living in a world where the director of the FBI wrote a children's book about Donald Trump as a poor persecuted king, and that was enough to get him the job of the FBI director."
– Susan Glasser ([11:41])
3. Breakdown of Institutional Checks & "Retribution Phase"
- Bolton Raids:
- Trump’s DOJ raids John Bolton’s home/offices soon after he publicly criticizes Trump’s failed negotiations with Putin ([15:12]).
- Glasser sees this as an attempt at silencing critics and a chilling message to dissenters – "It's very much about silencing a critic" ([17:06]).
- They detail the public humiliation at events where Trump fawns over Putin ([18:36]).
Notable Quote
"The last six months have been literally an exercise in national humiliation for the United States."
– Susan Glasser ([20:55])
4. U.S.–Russia Relations and Putin’s Evolution
- Personal Experience:
- Glasser recounts meeting Putin in 2001, describing his growth from insecure functionary to unchecked strongman ([22:09], [24:25]).
- She stresses that U.S. commentary often displays “outright credulousness” toward Trump’s narrative on Russia ([18:59]).
- Putin’s Motivations:
- Glasser unpacks the myth that NATO expansion is the main cause of conflict, emphasizing instead Putin’s imperial ideology and resentment over the Soviet Union’s collapse ([27:18]).
- She details Russian interference in Ukraine as early as 2004, long before NATO was a real consideration ([29:57]).
Key Quotes
"For Putin, it's about restoration... Russia essentially cannot be a great state anymore until and unless it's reunited with Ukraine."
– Susan Glasser ([28:53])
"It had everything to do with Putin's desire to control Ukraine by whatever means necessary."
– Susan Glasser ([31:17])
5. DOJ and DoD Purges & Implications
- Justice Department:
- Discussion of Pam Bondi’s purges at DOJ, loss of institutional memory, and a climate of fear ([36:19]).
- Glasser notes that, worryingly, federal judges are still signing warrants for politically motivated investigations ([36:53]).
- Miller and Glasser express alarm at prosecutors being forced to pursue absurd, cruel or vindictive cases ([38:54]).
- Defense Department:
- Miller and Glasser discuss the deliberate replacement of senior, nonpartisan defense officials with personal loyalists – a politicization unprecedented in American history ([40:27]).
- Glasser connects this to broader efforts to militarize action against perceived domestic enemies ([42:41]).
Notable Quotes
"There's been an extraordinary number of... purges going on in the senior levels of the Defense Department that seem designed to replace institutionalists with people who are personally more loyal..."
– Susan Glasser ([40:27])
"It's, in effect, the politicization of our nonpartisan military, of everything that's perhaps the most worrisome."
– Susan Glasser ([41:48])
6. Expanded Militarization and “Performative” Crackdowns in Cities
- D.C. as a Case Study:
- Miller and Glasser discuss National Guard troops posted in high-visibility but low-crime sites in DC, like Dupont Circle’s Krispy Kreme, as political theater for Trump’s base ([44:05]).
- Glasser calls it an "extremely performative abuse of official resources," painting it as revenge targeting a city that overwhelmingly rejected Trump ([44:52]).
- Miller plays a clip of Stephen Miller touting “liberation” of DC, which they both mock as disconnected from on-the-ground reality ([47:35]).
Notable Quote
"It's not about crime fighting, it's about political point scoring. And, you know, it's just very tragic. But it's also revenge."
– Susan Glasser ([46:16])
7. The Pageantry of Strongman Rule
- Giant Trump Portraits:
- Miller and Glasser liken massive presidential portraits on federal buildings to authoritarian imagery found in Moscow or “Central American countries” ([50:39]).
- Glasser recounts an anecdote from Ruth Marcus's reporting about Trump's AG (Pam Bondi) personally putting up Trump’s portrait in DOJ offices and firing staff who hadn't replaced them fast enough ([51:07]).
- They close by joking about Trump’s "livestream presidency" and the impossibility of switching the channel ([52:54]).
Notable Quotes
"That's the thing about a strongman type leader. He wants his picture on everything. He wants credit for everything."
– Susan Glasser ([51:07])
Memorable Quotes
-
On Trump’s governing style:
"The President is entitled to be the single decider of everything in this country—that is so antithetical to what you and I saw as a vision of an American democracy."
— Susan Glasser ([05:20]) -
On U.S. humiliation:
"That is going to look terrible in history... Donald Trump greeted the Butcher of Bucha with applause, with literal applause on a red carpet."
— Susan Glasser ([20:55]) -
On the gutting of institutions:
"If you give someone a hammer, they find nails... We know that the hammer is in their hands right now."
— Susan Glasser ([34:41]) -
On the rise of strongman pageantry:
"He wants his picture on the wall in every government office... How long is it until we have the Donald Trump radio with the word of the leader blaring at us at all times?"
— Susan Glasser ([51:07])
Timestamps for Significant Segments
- 01:59 — Trump's firing of Fed Gov. Lisa Cook
- 03:21 — Rule of law and breakdown of process
- 07:33 — Bill Pulte and the rise of loyalist bureaucrats
- 11:41 — Incentive structures for sycophants in Trump’s government
- 15:12 — Trump’s explicit revenge campaign and Bolton
- 18:36 — Trump/Putin Alaska summit and “exercise in national humiliation”
- 22:09 — Glasser’s personal encounter with Putin; his evolution
- 27:18 — Putin’s true motivations and the myth of NATO causality
- 36:19 — Pam Bondi, DOJ purges, and legal system resilience
- 40:27 — Defense Department purges and politicization of the military
- 44:52 — Militarization and “liberation” of DC as political theater
- 50:39 — Trump’s portraits and the strongman aesthetic
Tone and Style
The discussion is sharp, clear-eyed, and urgent—frequently critical and sometimes darkly humorous, especially when lampooning Trump’s theatricality, the posturing of loyalists, and the "mockumentary" character of current events. Glasser is incisive, at times exasperated, but always measured in her analysis. Miller, meanwhile, maintains a conversational, occasionally sardonic tone, punctuated by biting asides and attempts to keep things engaging with humor.
Useful For
This summary will be valuable for anyone seeking to understand the current American political climate under Trump’s second term—especially the risks to institutional independence, the transformation of incentive structures in government, the manipulation of law enforcement and military, and America’s national posture vis-à-vis Russia. Glasser’s perspective as a historian and Moscow observer adds valuable depth and context. The timestamps allow listeners to dive into topics of greatest interest directly.