The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Susan Glasser: Our Grotesque, Corrupted Oligarchy
Date: November 20, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Susan Glasser (Staff Writer, The New Yorker; co-author, The Divider)

Overview

In this episode, host Tim Miller welcomes journalist Susan Glasser to break down a tumultuous week in U.S. and international politics, focusing on secret Russia-Ukraine dealmaking by the Trump administration, the dysfunction and cracks within today’s Republican Party, and horrifying domestic and foreign policy actions under President Trump’s second term. Glasser contextualizes the current state of American governance as a "grotesque, corrupted oligarchy," discussing both the structural failures of U.S. institutions and the normalization of autocratic behavior, with particular scrutiny directed at the enabling business elite and Congressional inaction.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Secret Russia-Ukraine "Peace" Negotiations

• Background: Axios revealed that Stephen Witkoff, acting as a Trump envoy, has been secretly negotiating with Russia to draft a new Ukraine "peace plan."

• Ukrainian & European Reaction: Glasser dismissed the proposal as “not that dissimilar, literally, from Russia’s 2022...peace proposal,” emphasizing it is nothing but a list of Russian demands that would compromise Ukrainian sovereignty.

  • Quote:

    "Any leader of Ukraine, including Volodymyr Zelensky...would no longer be able to be the leader of Ukraine if they agreed to these conditions..."
    (Susan Glasser, 02:28)

• Russian Offensive:

  • Ongoing, illegal Russian attacks targeting Ukraine’s civilian population and infrastructure aim to increase public suffering before winter.
  • Stalemate persists on the battlefield; Russia would take years to gain even small territories at this rate.
  • Quote:

    "...both parties have failed on the offense in this war after the very beginning of it. We're in a sort of a kind of a stalemate, a war of attrition on the front line..."
    (Susan Glasser, 07:20)

• Congressional Inaction on Sanctions:

  • Senate sanctions bill against Russia is stalled, presumably to avoid angering Trump or Marco Rubio.

2. Cracks in Republican Unity: Epstein Files

• Trump’s Capitol Hill Setback:
  • For the first time, Trump was forced to capitulate to MAGA hardliners (Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Thomas Massie) on public release of Epstein files.
  • Miller ponders: Is this the start of broader Republican pushback?
• Glasser’s Take:
  • Historic but isolated; driven by the MAGA base’s unique obsession with the Epstein case.
  • "Capitulation is the right word. They went to extreme lengths...shutting down the US House...in the effort to block a vote that you then failed to block. There's no script for this..."
    (Susan Glasser, 10:14)
  • Glasser remains skeptical this signals larger revolt on serious matters like Russia sanctions, citing ongoing party silence even as Trump’s abuses escalate.

3. Trump’s Approval Ratings & Focus on Foreign Policy

• Domestic Approval Plummets:
  • Trump’s economic numbers are notably underwater; only leads on border policy and Israel/Gaza.
  • Glasser: foreign policy is a traditional focus for lame-duck or second-term presidents seeking legacy-building and unconstrained executive action.

  • "Foreign policy is also an area where our very unconstrained presidents really are unconstrained. And especially over the recent decades, you have seen Congress cede what role it did have largely in foreign policy to the executive branch..."
    (Susan Glasser, 15:48)

4. The MBS State Visit and the American Oligarchy

• Lavish Reception of Saudi Prince:

  • Trump hosted a state dinner for Mohammed bin Salman (MBS); tech and business titans ("masters of the universe") attended.
  • Glasser is appalled by the normalization of “revolting scene of full on embrace of a murderous autocrat in service of...personal business interests as much as national interests.”

  • "Is there any more kind of summing up of the grotesque, corrupted oligarchy in which we find ourselves then than this?"
    (Susan Glasser, 23:22)

• Tech Elite Complicity:

  • Miller and Glasser critique tech leaders like Tim Cook for public embrace of both MBS and Trump, arguing these figures bear responsibility for enabling the anti-democratic status quo.

  • "It doesn't require you embracing the Bonesaw murderer. We can stipulate to that. It doesn't require you embracing Donald Trump in such public ways. There are ways to keep integrity that do not involve this."
    (Susan Glasser, 26:05)

5. F-35 Fighter Jet Sales to Saudi Arabia

• Background:
  • Trump approved contested military sales and ceremonial flyovers.
  • Previous administrations insisted on normalization with Israel as a precondition; Trump dropped all conditions, giving away “what it had wanted” for little in return.
  • Raises prospect of further enrichment for the Trump or cabinet families.

6. DOJ and FBI as Political Weapons: The Comey Case

• Comey Investigation:

  • Trump’s DOJ, led by political loyalists Pam Bondi and Lindsey Halligan, pursues dubious prosecution against James Comey.
  • Glasser:

    "Abuse of power is the kind of thing that should rattle people... This kind of power being wielded by an unchecked executive is literally like the nightmare that the founding fathers envisioned from the very beginning..."
    (Susan Glasser, 32:10)

• Clownish but Dangerous:

  • Even as these actions are often incompetent, Miller insists their normalization poses a deep threat:

    "Just because it's a clownish abuse of power does not mean that it is not putting us on a very scary trajectory if it was allowed to continue."
    (Tim Miller, 34:18)

7. ICE Expansion & Culture of Fear

• Escalating Immigration Enforcement:

  • Reports from Charlotte and New Orleans: mass absenteeism by scared children; local immigrants vanish from public life.

  • "...Who's being targeted most explicitly in the society? You know, it's the spreading of fear on some level that is the most kind of strikingly at odds with the US..."
    (Susan Glasser, 35:24)

• Tactics Evoke Global Resonance:

  • Even Canadian students are now too frightened to travel to the US for mock trials.

  • "All of us are infected by it to a certain extent...you risk being exposed to horrific scenes at any given moment...We're all being exposed to these on purpose. On purpose to these horrific scenes. And I think that's very much by design."
    (Susan Glasser, 36:43)

8. The Oath, Military, and Lawful Orders

• Veterans Urging Lawful Conduct:

  • Democratic veterans appear in a video urging soldiers to refuse unlawful orders.
  • The right, represented by Stephen Miller, calls the call to obey the law “insurrection.”

  • "It is insurrection plainly, directly, without question."
    (Stephen Miller, 39:45)

• Orwellian Rhetoric:

  • Glasser calls it Orwellian, warning of a regime intent on redefining reality and normalizing reversal of democratic norms.

  • "It's actually absurd to say that the people who are saying, please...comply with the law of war...are traitors."
    (Susan Glasser, 41:00)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ukraine "Peace" Plans:

  "By itemizing the peace plan and making it 28 points, it doesn't make it any more viable peace plan."
  (Susan Glasser, 02:10)

• On the MBS Dinner:

  "This revolting scene of full on embrace of a murderous autocrat in service of...personal business interests as much as national interests in the Oval Office, attacking, you know, a journalist in the, in the most crude terms and threatening to withdraw ABC News's license."
  (Susan Glasser, 22:32)

• On Congress' Passivity:

  "Congress has not even sued. Trump has not acted in its own interest. So that's, that's all I'm saying."
  (Susan Glasser, 20:21)

• On the Tech Elite:

  "He doesn't have this power, this clout, this agency in the world that prizes high agency individuals like him...We're funding this, right?"
  (Susan Glasser, 26:38)

• On Spreading Fear:

  "First they came for the immigrants and I spoke up because I knew the rest of the effing poem."
  (Susan Glasser, 42:14)

Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------| | 00:55 | Intro to Ukraine-Russia plan & analysis | | 06:10 | Russia’s winter offense & war stalemate | | 08:18 | Congress, Russia sanctions, and Epstein vote | | 10:14 | Trump’s humiliation by MAGA hardliners | | 15:11 | Trump approval ratings; focus on foreign policy | | 20:37 | The MBS state dinner as oligarchy symbol | | 28:01 | Tech's role & the F-35 arms sale | | 30:14 | DOJ/FBI targeting Comey | | 35:19 | ICE expansions and fear in immigrant communities| | 38:55 | Democrats encourage troops to refuse unlawful orders; Stephen Miller's Orwellian turn| | 43:21 | Reflections: The future of Vice President Harris & political vibes| | 46:38 | Anticipating Cheney’s funeral |

Closing Reflections

Susan Glasser and Tim Miller conclude by reflecting on Vice President Harris’s current public engagement and the changing face of American political leadership. The funeral of Dick Cheney, they note, is a reminder of a bygone era—while today’s events reveal new fault lines and deeper crises in American democratic life.

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