The Bulwark Podcast: Tom Malinowski on Fighting the Power and Democratic Strategies

Episode: Tom Malinowski: Fight the Power, Dems
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Tom Malinowski, former U.S. Representative for New Jersey's 7th congressional district (2019-2023), former Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor under the Obama administration.

1. Opening Remarks and Introduction

Tim Miller welcomes Tom Malinowski to "The Bulwark Podcast," highlighting Malinowski's background in Congress and his expertise in democracy and human rights. They immediately delve into the core topics without dwelling on introductions, setting the stage for an in-depth political discussion.

2. Trump's Ukraine Policy and Rare Earth Minerals

Timestamp [01:48] – [04:28]

The conversation begins with an analysis of Donald Trump's recent statements regarding Ukraine, specifically his focus on securing the U.S. investment in rare earth minerals amidst the ongoing conflict.

• Trump's Statement: "I want to have our money secured because we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars." ([01:48])

• Malinowski's Response: He criticizes Trump's lack of understanding, stating, "He just doesn't understand the values and principles at stake in this conflict." ([04:28])

Malinowski emphasizes that while Trump's policy on rare earth minerals is flawed, there remains a viable path forward. He discusses the strategic placement of rare earth mineral deposits in Eastern Ukraine, currently under Russian control, and the challenges in ensuring American companies can access these resources without Russian interference.

3. The State of U.S. Foreign Policy Under Trump

Timestamp [05:51] – [09:51]

Malinowski expresses concern over the erosion of America's values-based foreign policy under Trump's administration. He draws parallels to past administrations, particularly the Bush era, noting that despite severe criticisms then, the U.S. maintained its global influence.

• Malinowski's Insight: "We are totally giving up [America's comparative advantage]." ([05:55])

• Historical Comparison: He references the tarnishing of America's global brand during the Iraq War and subsequent challenges, underscoring the resilience of U.S. leadership.

Malinowski remains optimistic that America's foundational values can be restored with responsible leadership, asserting, "A United States under responsible leadership four years from now, eight years from now, is still going to be the one country in the world capable of providing it." ([07:57])

4. Democratic Strategies to Challenge Trump's Policies

Timestamp [11:18] – [25:51]

The core of the discussion revolves around actionable strategies Democrats should adopt to counteract Trump's policies, particularly focusing on legislative maneuvers within Congress.

a. Forcing Votes on Tariffs

• Miller's Observation: He highlights Trump's bluffing tactics with tariffs and the potential for Democrats to challenge these directly.

• Malinowski's Strategy: He advocates for Democrats to leverage House rules to force votes on Trump's tariffs, thereby exposing Republican reluctance and holding Trump accountable.

  • Notable Quote: "Force the Republicans to vote up or down on an action that is absolutely going to hurt workers, consumers and manufacturers in their districts and in their states." ([16:02])

b. Government Funding and Avoiding Shutdowns

• Upcoming Challenges: With government funding expiration looming, Malinowski advises Democrats to take a firm stance against conceding to Trump's demands without assurances of constitutional respect.

  • Condition for Support: "If they want me to pass a budget that he's going to treat like a piece of toilet paper, then I'm out." ([18:34])

• Miller's Critique: He expresses frustration with Democrats' reluctance to use their leverage, urging them to take a stronger stand against potential shutdowns orchestrated by Republicans.

c. Leveraging Legal Challenges

• USAID and Related Agencies: Malinowski underscores the importance of filing lawsuits against the Trump administration's unlawful actions, encouraging organizations to unify in legal battles to restore funding and support.

  • Key Point: "Imagine you're a member of the House of Representatives and somebody shows you an appropriations bill or CR that funds USAID. But USAID has been shut down and the staff have been fired. Like, what are we doing here? This piece of paper you're showing me is a lie." ([28:34])

d. Economic Messaging and Benchmarks

• Inflation and Economic Indicators: Malinowski suggests setting clear economic benchmarks to hold Trump accountable, tracking key indicators like inflation rates and consumer prices to undermine his policy claims.

  • Implementation: Proposing a dedicated website to monitor these indicators, creating a sense of urgency and accountability.

5. Targeting Big Tech as a Democratic Agenda

Timestamp [37:25] – [44:03]

Malinowski shifts focus to the role of Big Tech in societal issues, advocating for Democrats to adopt a stance against social media companies and other tech giants.

• Impact of Social Media: He points out the detrimental effects of social media on mental health, societal divisions, and the overall fabric of democracy.

  • Quote: "These companies are very, very unpopular with not just Democrats, but with independents and with Republicans." ([38:53])

• Proposed Actions:

  • State-Level Legislation: Encouraging blue states to pass robust privacy and tech accountability laws.

  • AI Safety Legislation: Advocating for safeguards in the development and deployment of artificial intelligence technologies.

• Unified Message: Malinowski believes that positioning Big Tech as adversaries aligns with public sentiment and strengthens democratic values.

  • Quote: "We have to decide that Musk and Zuckerberg and these tech bros…they are the enemy." ([41:26])

6. Reflections on Republican Figures and Party Dynamics

Timestamp [45:25] – [56:31]

The discussion touches upon various Republican figures and their stances in the current political climate.

• Tom Kean and Moderates: Malinowski reflects on moderate Republicans like Tom Kean and others who have not stood firmly against Trump's agenda, highlighting their limited visibility and impact.

• Nancy Mace and Lauren Boebert: He briefly comments on recent controversial actions and statements by these individuals, portraying them as symptomatic of broader party challenges.

  • Lauren Boebert Example: "She's paying Politico." ([52:36])

• Mike Waltz: Malinowski describes Waltz as an old-fashioned Republican who has navigated the party's shifts while maintaining some level of bipartisan cooperation.

  • Comment: "He was absolutely an old fashioned Reagan, McCain, Bush, Republican." ([55:21])

7. Concluding Thoughts and Call to Action

Timestamp [56:31] – End

As the episode wraps up, Malinowski reiterates the necessity for Democrats to harness their legislative power effectively, emphasizing the importance of standing firm against unconstitutional expansions of presidential authority.

• Final Message: "Use power. And also, Americans want leaders who are strong and not leaders who are weak." ([24:03])

Tim Miller thanks Malinowski for his insights, reinforcing the podcast's commitment to providing strategic political analysis and advocating for the defense of liberal democracy.

Key Takeaways

• Strategic Legislative Action: Democrats must utilize congressional rules to challenge Trump's policies directly, forcing votes and holding Republicans accountable.

• Restoring Values-Based Foreign Policy: Rebuilding America's global leadership on democratic values remains crucial, requiring responsible and principled leadership.

• Combating Big Tech: Addressing the negative societal impacts of social media and tech companies should be a unified Democratic agenda, leveraging state-level legislation and public sentiment.

• Firm Stance on Government Funding: Preventing government shutdowns necessitates Democrats taking a strong position against Trump's demands, ensuring constitutional compliance.

• Bipartisan Cooperation: While some Republicans show potential for bipartisan efforts, overall party dynamics under Trump present significant challenges that require vigilant and proactive Democratic strategies.

Notable Quotes

• Malinowski on Trump’s Understanding: "He just doesn't understand the values and principles at stake in this conflict." ([04:28])

• On Forcing Votes: "Force the Republicans to vote up or down on an action that is absolutely going to hurt workers, consumers and manufacturers in their districts and in their states." ([16:02])

• On Big Tech as the Enemy: "We have to decide that Musk and Zuckerberg and these tech bros…they are the enemy." ([41:26])

• Final Call to Action: "Use power. And also, Americans want leaders who are strong and not leaders who are weak." ([24:03])

Tom Malinowski's insights provide a blueprint for Democratic strategies aimed at countering Trump's influence and policies. Emphasizing legislative action, the restoration of America's values-based foreign policy, and holding Big Tech accountable, Malinowski outlines a comprehensive approach to reinforcing liberal democracy in the face of contemporary challenges.