The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Tom Nichols: America’s Problem Child

Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Tom Nichols (Professor Emeritus, Naval War College; Staff Writer at The Atlantic; Author of "The Death of Expertise")
Date: August 29, 2025

Overview

In this episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller is joined by Tom Nichols for a candid and often darkly humorous discussion of America’s mounting political and institutional crises. The core focus is the current Trump administration’s authoritarian tendencies, ongoing government purges, the manipulation of the levers of state, and the distressing lack of resistance among established politicians. The conversation draws on Nichols’ recent comparison of Donald Trump to "Homelander" from The Boys, the specter of dictatorship (both amateurish and dangerous), and fresh examples of anti-democratic behavior in the administration and among its allies. The tone is a mix of gallows humor, frustration, and sobering reality checks, with moments of both pop culture levity and policy wonkiness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump as "Homelander" (00:58 – 06:37)

• Nichols’ Analogy: Nichols explains his recent piece comparing Trump to Homelander, a character from The Boys TV series, described as “an evil Superman—neurotic, big baby, extremely powerful, people simpering around him, raised without love, always desperate for approval.”
  • Notable Quote (05:18):
    “Donald Trump is not a metahuman, but he does carry a little card in his pocket that could launch 1700 strategic nuclear weapons in the next 30 minutes anytime he wants.” — Tom Nichols
• “I Can Do Whatever I Want”: Both Homelander and Trump share the mantra and behavior of unchecked, childish power, making the superhero a fitting cultural metaphor.

2. Trump’s Dictator "Soft Launch" and Psychological Weaknesses (06:06 – 08:49)

• Hostile Authoritarianism, With an Asterisk: Trump’s desire for dictatorial authority is clear (“He wants to be a dictator”), but according to Nichols, he's a “weeniest dictator” who speaks through proxies and avoids direct responsibility.

• Cowardice as Buffer: Paradoxically, Trump’s insecurities, desire for love, and aversion to confrontation act as a brake on full authoritarianism... but also make it easier for others to excuse or enable his worst instincts.

  • Notable Quote (08:12):
    “He wants to do it, but he doesn’t want responsibility for it. He’s not Napoleon seizing his own crown... he’s Napoleon saying, ‘some people say I should pick up this crown and become emperor.’” — Tom Nichols

3. Arrested Development and Excusal of Trump’s Behavior (08:49 – 11:00)

• "America’s Problem Child": Nichols says Trump operates on an 8-year-old’s emotional level—bold and cruel, then insecure—which causes his supporters to treat him like a misbehaving child in need of protection, not accountability.
• Danger of Underestimation: Society excuses Trump’s actions, allowing dangerous patterns to persist. “An 8 year old with an Uzi still has an Uzi... [he] can still spray lead all over a room and hurt a lot of people.”

4. Demolition of Government Institutions and Purges (12:52 – 24:11)

• Serious Dismantling: Recent and ongoing purges in federal agencies—FBI, military leadership, CDC, HHS, and now the judiciary—are purposeful. While Trump is chaotic and distractible, the adults around him are serious about reengineering the state for partisan/authoritarian purposes.

  • Notable Quote (14:53):
    "It’s going to take a while to dig these seditionists and authoritarians out of the Justice Department, [Defense], the FBI, the CIA is going through a purge now...." — Tom Nichols

• Plundering the State: Nichols argues much of the motivation is simply jobs and the spoils of office (“plundering the treasury”).

  • Notable Quote (17:08):
    “The object is simply to move people out of offices and give your friends jobs that pay on average $175,000 plus federal benefits. You don’t care if the job gets done.” — Tom Nichols

5. Should Career Public Servants Stay or Go? (19:04 – 21:36)

• Advice to Bureaucrats: Nichols urges career officials in security, law enforcement, intelligence and defense to STAY, believing their presence mitigates damage. But for some health/science officials, mass resignations can send a necessary signal, as happened with DOJ leadership threats in Trump’s first term.
• **“Don’t obey in advance”—make them fire you and put it in writing, then fight.”

6. Technocratic Decimation: USAID and the Apparatchiks (21:55 – 24:11)

• Russ Vought and True Believers: Nichols stresses the danger of skilled, purposeful right-wing apparatchiks like Vought—unlike mere grifters, they’re serious, competent ideologues.
• Can We “Snap Back” After the Damage? Some agencies/programs may be reconstituted, but there are practical and legal barriers. “Three years is a long time to go without it.”

7. Security Clearances and Personal Retaliation (24:36 – 26:35)

• Vindictive Measures: News that 31 CIA clearances have been revoked, including Russia hands, and Kamala Harris’s security detail stripped (just before a book tour). Nichols warns this exposes ex-officials to serious personal risk.

  • Notable Quote (26:16):
    “If John Bolton gets whacked... that blood’s on Trump’s hands. These people served their country... there was an expectation their country would look out for them.” — Tom Nichols

8. Media Harassment and Authoritarian "Bullying" (26:35 – 32:18)

• JD Vance and Deep State Paranoia:

  • JD Vance accused a Politico reporter of being part of a “foreign influence operation” merely for covering the administration’s failed Russia diplomacy. Nichols and Miller lampoon the authoritarian tendency to frame all criticism as treason or espionage, even as they note the danger for targeted individuals.
  • Notable Quote (28:12):
    “Vance, I think in some ways, is the worst of the bunch because Vance, more than anybody, knows better. He’s not a stupid person. He knows what he’s doing.” — Tom Nichols

• Weaponizing Conspiracy Theories: Such attacks serve to whip up the base, silence critics, and encourage harassment.

  • Notable Quote (32:18):
    “It’s meant to generate death threats and harassment... It’s basically saying, shut up or I release the flying monkeys on you.” — Tom Nichols

9. Assault on Expertise and Populist Pandering (32:48 – 39:24)

• Fed Independence Under Attack:

  • Miller and Nichols mock Vance’s criticism of letting "bureaucrats" (i.e., the Fed) control monetary policy without “the people’s input.”

  • Nichols: “That is exactly our system. Specifically so that we will insulate the people making decisions about these policies from politically... from elected officials.”

  • Larger point: The “death of expertise” is now official policy. Nichols slams politicians like Vance for betraying their supposed working-class base with cheap, destructive populism rather than responsible leadership.

  • Notable Quote (36:12):
    “I know that he had the opportunity to educate and lead and talk to people in the working class about these issues and help them... and the minute he had a microgram of power, he just betrayed them and played them for fools.” — Tom Nichols

  • Miller’s Searing Critique: "At least if you put the guy in the porn shop in the Senate instead of Thom Tillis, I wouldn’t have to deal with the condescending lectures..."

10. Collapse of the Congressional “Center” (40:20 – 47:13)

• On Senators Like Joni Ernst: Ernst’s (potential) retirement is revealed. Both Miller and Nichols lament that supposedly moderate or ‘serious’ GOP senators never actually defy Trumpism in practice.

  • The “difference” between GOP senators is now rhetorical at best; voting records are indistinguishable.

  • Notable Quotes:

    • (46:09) “It wasn’t Trump or Tuberville or any of those guys. It was Susan Collins. Because when Collins got out there and sounded like just every other MAGA senator voting for Kavanaugh, I said, that’s it. There is no moderate center in the party.” — Tom Nichols

11. Trump’s Health Speculation (47:13 – 50:35)

• Hand Bruises and Ankle Swelling: The hosts riff on viral speculation about Trump’s visible hand bruises and swelling—suggesting possible IV use or health problems, with comedic interludes about their lack of medical licenses.

  • Notable Quote (49:20):
    “I want to know about the health of my president. He’s the most powerful man in the world. If he’s having health troubles, then we deserve to know about it.” — Tom Nichols

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tom Nichols (05:18):
  “Donald Trump is not a metahuman, but he does carry a little card in his pocket that could launch 1700 strategic nuclear weapons in the next 30 minutes anytime he wants.”

• Tom Nichols (08:12):
  “He wants to do it, but he doesn’t want responsibility for it. He’s not Napoleon seizing his own crown... he’s Napoleon saying, ‘some people say I should pick up this crown and become emperor.’”

• Tom Nichols (10:05):
  “His supporters are like the parents at the principal’s office saying, ‘I know he lit the school mascot on fire, but he’s a good boy.’”

• Tom Nichols (14:53):
  “It’s going to take a while to dig these seditionists and authoritarians out of the Justice Department, the Defense Department, the FBI... the CIA is going through a purge now.”

• Tom Nichols (17:08):
  “The object is simply to move people out of offices and give your friends jobs that pay on average $175,000 plus federal benefits. You don’t care if the job gets done.”

• Tom Nichols (26:16):
  “If John Bolton gets whacked... that blood’s on Trump’s hands. These people served their country... there was an expectation their country would look out for them.”

• Tom Nichols (28:12):
  “Vance, I think in some ways, is the worst of the bunch because Vance, more than anybody knows better. He’s not a stupid person. He knows what he’s doing.”

• Tom Nichols (32:18):
  “It’s meant to generate death threats and harassment... It’s basically saying, shut up or I release the flying monkeys on you.”

• Tom Nichols (36:12):
  “I know that he had the opportunity to educate and lead and talk to people in the working class about these issues and help them... and the minute he had a microgram of power, he just betrayed them and played them for fools.”

• Miller (45:20):
  “Put the fucking pizza guy, put the guy... jerking off in the back of the porn shop in there instead. He’s the same as Tom Tillis. At least I wouldn’t have to deal with the condescending lectures about how serious he is.”

• Tom Nichols (49:20):
  “I want to know about the health of my president. He’s the most powerful man in the world. If he’s having health troubles, then we deserve to know about it.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump/Homelander Analogy: 02:27 – 06:06
• Trump’s Dictator “Soft Launch”: 06:06 – 08:49
• America’s Problem Child/Arrested Development: 08:49 – 11:00
• Government Purges & Erosion: 12:52 – 21:36
• Should Civil Servants Stay or Go?: 19:04 – 21:36
• Agency Takeovers (USAID & Apparatchiks): 21:55 – 24:11
• Security Clearances/Personal Targeting: 24:36 – 26:35
• Media Harassment/Authoritarian Bullying: 26:35 – 32:18
• Populist Assault on Expertise: 32:48 – 39:24
• Collapse of GOP Center/Ernst Departure: 40:20 – 47:13
• Speculating on Trump’s Health: 47:13 – 50:35

Tone, Style, and Final Observations

The episode blends sharp policy critique with dark wit, pop culture metaphors, and raw expressions of political frustration. Nichols’ “America’s Problem Child” framework strikes at both the roots of Trump’s unprecedented behavioral problems and the public/journalistic tendency to excuse or minimize them, even while the machinery of government is being purposefully dismantled. Both hosts highlight not just the danger from above, but the abdication of duty by those who should know better.

Listeners come away with a new lens—Trump as a needy, destructive “big baby” with nukes, surrounded by opportunist “adults,” while the “serious” opposition remains largely imaginary. Miller’s and Nichols’ exchanges, ranging from record-player jokes to the granular realities of regulatory purges, bring both catharsis and a call to continued vigilance.

Summary by [your assistant], including all memorable moments, timestamped highlights, and honest attributions to both host and guest, in the show’s spontaneous, irreverent style.