The Bulwark Podcast: Tom Nichols on "Secrets and Lies"

Release Date: July 18, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Bulwark Podcast, host Tim Miller engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Professor Tom Nichols, a professor emeritus at the Naval War College and a staff writer at The Atlantic. Together, they dissect recent revelations surrounding former President Donald Trump’s connections with Jeffrey Epstein, the response from the media, and the broader implications for American politics and national security.

1. The Wall Street Journal’s Revelation

Tim Miller kicks off the discussion by referencing a recent Wall Street Journal article that exposed a 2003 birthday letter from Donald Trump to Jeffrey Epstein. The letter, intended to commemorate Epstein’s 50th birthday, notably includes a drawing of a naked woman with Trump’s signature depicted as pubic hair.

“Donald Trump apparently drew a picture of a woman, naked woman with breasts. And his signature was the pubic hair.”
[01:34] Tom Nichols

Tom Nichols expresses skepticism and concern over the nature of the letter, emphasizing the inappropriateness and implications of Trump’s relationship with Epstein.

“I don't know what to make of anybody who has a close friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and writes little scripts or little fake screenplays.”
[02:22] Tom Nichols

2. Analyzing Trump’s Response

The conversation shifts to Trump’s immediate reaction to the WSJ’s report. Trump branded the story as a "scam" and launched threats to sue the publication, alongside other media outlets like ABC, CBS, and 60 Minutes.

“This scam should end right now. This is a guy that's flailing. He's like, I'm gonna sue people.”
[16:43] Tom Nichols

Nichols critiques Trump’s crisis management, suggesting that his defensive posture indicates underlying fears and potential wrongdoing.

“If you're that scared and you're gonna sue and you're gonna … it's standard Trump playbook.”
[16:59] Tom Nichols

3. Implications for Public Perception and the MAGA Base

The episode delves into how these revelations and Trump’s subsequent actions are influencing public opinion, especially among his staunch supporters. Nichols highlights a growing awareness and concern even among those previously indifferent to the Epstein scandal.

“Watch out, they're going to sort of a normal person looks at this and says, I wasn't really interested in this, but now I kind of am.”
[12:32] Tom Nichols

4. DOJ and the Firing of James Comey’s Daughter

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the recent dismissal of Maureen Comey from the Department of Justice. Comey, known for prosecuting high-profile sex crimes cases involving Epstein and Maxwell, was ousted without explanation, raising alarms about the DOJ’s priorities under current leadership.

“Now this is going to keep this alive and it's going to drive people crazy because now he's at war with everybody.”
[07:42] Tom Nichols

Nichols connects this event to the broader pattern of undermining legitimate law enforcement efforts, suggesting a deliberate attempt to obstruct justice related to Epstein’s crimes.

5. The Streisand Effect and Media Backlash

The podcast examines the concept of the Streisand Effect, where attempts to suppress information inadvertently lead to greater public awareness. Nichols argues that Trump’s aggressive response may fuel more widespread scrutiny and conspiracy theories.

“You could argue that it's just bad luck that you find out later that your pal is … that Trump has something to hide.”
[04:30] Tom Nichols

6. Internal Issues Within Intelligence Agencies

Transitioning to national security, Nichols and Miller discuss recent reforms and controversies within U.S. intelligence agencies. Specifically, they critique Tulsi Gabbard and Cash Patel’s leadership, highlighting the misuse of AI to monitor employees and the implementation of polygraph tests to root out dissent.

“FBI personnel are being hooked up to polygraphs to ascertain whether or not they've been snickering about Cash Patel around the water cooler.”
[40:13] Tom Nichols

This segment underscores concerns about the erosion of professional integrity and the chilling effect such measures have on agency morale and effectiveness.

7. Nuclear Command and Control in the Age of AI

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to nuclear security, where Nichols discusses the vulnerabilities of the U.S. nuclear command and control system, especially with the advent of artificial intelligence.

“The system that exists now here in the United States of nuclear command and control was built during the Cold War. It relies on one man, President of the United States.”
[47:03] Tom Nichols

Nichols warns about the risks of AI integration into nuclear systems and the dangers posed by electing leaders who may lack the necessary virtue and judgment to handle such immense responsibilities.

8. Ukraine-Russia Conflict and Trump’s Strategy

The discussion moves to the ongoing Ukraine-Russia conflict, analyzing President Trump’s recent decisions to delay sanctions while simultaneously approving military aid to Ukraine.

“Trump gave Putin another 50 days, but he's also giving Ukraine the weapons.”
[52:34] Tim Miller

Nichols speculates that this maneuver grants Putin additional time to strengthen his position, potentially prolonging the conflict and complicating diplomatic resolutions.

9. The Federal Reserve and Economic Policies

Nichols and Miller briefly touch upon the economic landscape, particularly focusing on Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. They discuss mounting pressures from Republican lawmakers for Powell’s removal amidst concerns over interest rates and inflation.

“If inflation is starting to pick up, you don't actually cut interest rates because then you get, you know, more inflation.”
[56:19] Tom Nichols

This segment highlights the tension between economic policy and political interference, questioning the feasibility of maintaining financial stability under current pressures.

10. Closing Remarks and Comedic Relief

The episode concludes with a humorous yet critical take on Trump’s fabricated anecdotes, particularly mocking his false claims about his uncle’s association with the Unabomber.

“This is really one of the few times where you want to say, now imagine if Joe … this shows you how much we've lowered the bar where Donald Trump …”
[62:32] Tom Nichols

Nichols underscores the impact of Trump’s misleading narratives on public trust and political discourse, emphasizing the broader implications for societal standards and credibility.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “Donald Trump apparently drew a picture of a woman, naked woman with breasts. And his signature was the pubic hair.”
  [01:34] Tom Nichols

• “This scam should end right now. This is a guy that's flailing.”
  [16:43] Tom Nichols

• “You could argue that it's just bad luck that you find out later that your pal is … that Trump has something to hide.”
  [04:30] Tom Nichols

• “The system that exists now here in the United States of nuclear command and control was built during the Cold War. It relies on one man, President of the United States.”
  [47:03] Tom Nichols

• “This shows you how much we've lowered the bar where Donald Trump …”
  [62:32] Tom Nichols

Conclusion

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast navigates through a labyrinth of political scandals, media dynamics, and national security concerns, offering listeners a thorough analysis of complex issues. Tom Nichols provides a critical perspective on Trump’s actions and their repercussions, while also shedding light on the internal challenges facing U.S. intelligence and defense structures. The conversation underscores the fragile state of American institutions amidst political turmoil and the ever-looming risks associated with leadership decisions in the digital and nuclear age.

For those interested in understanding the intricate ties between political figures and national security, as well as the impact of media revelations on public perception, this episode offers a nuanced and informative discussion.