The Bulwark Podcast: Tom Nichols – "This Is What They Want"
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Tom Nichols, Professor Emeritus at the Naval War College, Staff Writer at The Atlantic, Author of The Atlantic Daily Newsletter
Episode Title: This Is What They Want
1. Introduction and Current Political Climate [00:38 – 02:30]
Tim Miller opens the episode by welcoming Tom Nichols, emphasizing the camaraderie needed to navigate the current political turmoil. He poses an urgent question about the direction the country is heading under the current administration.
Notable Quote:
"What we should do is be on a beach somewhere right now, just with a couple of Mai Tais."
— Tom Nichols [00:58]
Nichols acknowledges the frustration but underscores the importance of resilience: facing another four years by holding the administration accountable without succumbing to despair.
2. The 2024 Election and Voter Sentiment [02:30 – 10:59]
The discussion delves into Nichols' recent article for The Atlantic, where he asserts that Trump voters essentially "got what they wanted" in the previous election. He explores the reasons behind this outcome, suggesting that the core issues driving voters towards Trump were not adequately addressed by the Democrats.
Notable Quotes:
"This is what they want. Okay, so we're all strapped into the same rocket and we're just going to have to deal with."
— Tom Nichols [01:50]
"I'm not gonna let the United States off the hook. First of all, we're supposed to be smarter than that."
— Tom Nichols [02:30]
Nichols argues that the Democratic Party failed to connect with a significant portion of the electorate, particularly those who felt alienated by issues like economic struggles and cultural changes. He emphasizes that Trump capitalized on these sentiments by presenting himself as a relatable, if unconventional, leader.
3. Democratic Strategies and Communication Breakdown [10:59 – 24:52]
Miller and Nichols critically examine the Democratic Party's approach in addressing the concerns of the working class and other marginalized groups. They argue that Democrats often focus on identity politics and niche issues, neglecting broader economic and societal concerns that resonate with a larger voter base.
Notable Quotes:
"If you have 42% of the country that their impression of you is that you think that they're racist and stupid and idiots... then you're already starting from a pretty low base."
— Tim Miller [05:57]
"The Democrats are constantly getting these kinds of hostage letters from various constituencies saying, remember us or this section of the vote gets thrown in the river."
— Tom Nichols [22:59]
Nichols highlights the irony that Republicans often express resentment towards the rural poor, while Democrats are perceived as indifferent to their struggles. He criticizes the Democratic focus on specific issues like transgender rights, arguing that it alienates voters who prioritize economic stability and job security.
4. The Role of Media and Public Perception [24:52 – 37:11]
The conversation shifts to the influence of media narratives on public perception. Nichols points out the disparity in how Trump and Biden are covered, suggesting that Trump's unconventional communication style receives disproportionate attention compared to Biden's more traditional approach.
Notable Quotes:
"The economic experts were like, of course... and good policy created a soft landing."
— Tom Nichols [11:03]
"But on the other hand, a lot of those folks live in such an epistemic bubble at some point."
— Tom Nichols [14:57]
They discuss how media portrayal can shape electoral outcomes, with Trump benefiting from widespread coverage that keeps him in the public eye, while Biden's policies may not receive the same level of scrutiny or praise.
5. Addressing Polarization and Finding Common Ground [37:11 – 44:58]
Miller and Nichols explore strategies to bridge the deepening political divide. They advocate for Democrats to return to grassroots engagement, communicating directly with voters in their communities rather than relying solely on policy papers and high-level rhetoric.
Notable Quotes:
"You can talk to people and realize that not everybody went to grad school and not everybody is on Twitter."
— Tom Nichols [24:53]
"We are in an epistemic bubble, I am building one from the inside out."
— Tim Miller [41:32]
Nichols emphasizes the importance of empathy and genuine interaction, suggesting that Democrats need to better understand and address the everyday concerns of ordinary Americans to regain trust and support.
6. Responding to External Influences and Future Outlook [44:58 – 46:10]
The dialogue touches upon external threats and ideological battles, referencing Alexander Dugin’s views and the global context in which American politics operates. Nichols cautions against overreacting to extreme viewpoints but acknowledges the need to remain vigilant against authoritarian influences.
Notable Quotes:
"Dugin is a nut, and even Putin has kind of held him at arm's length on occasion."
— Tom Nichols [44:09]
"The fight ahead is really not about conservatism and progressivism or whatever. It's the survival of the liberal order."
— Tom Nichols [45:15]
They conclude with a recognition of America's resilience but stress that preserving democracy requires ongoing effort and strategic engagement.
7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts [46:10 – End]
As the conversation wraps up, Nichols and Miller reflect on the challenges ahead, urging listeners to remain informed and involved without falling into despair. They advocate for constructive actions like supporting quality journalism and participating in local governance.
Notable Quotes:
"Take care, Tim."
— Tom Nichols [46:08]
"We've learned America's resilience. Maybe people need to get it good and hard so that we can get back to an equilibrium."
— Tim Miller [40:27]
Key Takeaways
- Voter Alignment: Trump effectively captured voter discontent by addressing economic and cultural anxieties that Democrats overlooked.
- Democratic Disconnect: The Democratic Party needs to engage more directly with the working class and address broader economic concerns to rebuild trust.
- Media Influence: Media coverage plays a significant role in shaping public perception, often favoring high-profile figures like Trump over policy-focused leaders.
- Grassroots Engagement: Reconnecting with voters through genuine, community-based interactions is crucial for Democratic resurgence.
- Resilience and Vigilance: Preserving democracy requires both resilience in the face of political challenges and vigilance against authoritarian influences.
Final Remarks
Tom Nichols provides a sobering yet insightful analysis of the current American political landscape, emphasizing the need for strategic engagement and empathy to bridge the widening political divide. Tim Miller and Nichols collectively underscore the importance of resilience, informed participation, and genuine communication in safeguarding liberal democracy.
Note: Timestamps correspond to the points in the provided transcript and are included to contextualize the quoted segments.