Loading summary
Transcript138 lines
- [00:00]
Matt
Optimize your nutrition with Factor America's number one ready to eat meal service. Factor's Fresh Never Frozen meals are dietitian approved and ready to eat in just 2 minutes. Choose from 40 weekly options across 8 dietary preferences like calorie, smart and protein. Plus Factor's keto meals can help you lose up to 8 pounds in 8 weeks. Get started at FactorMeals.com Factor50 off to get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box weight loss with Factor Keto based on a randomized controlled clinical trial. Results will vary depending on diet and exercise. Hi, I'm Matt. And I'm Leah and we're from the Grown Up Stuff podcast. And just in time for tax season. On this week's episode, we're chatting with CPA Lisa Green Lewis about how small businesses can tackle their taxes using TurboTax Business. A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes and 17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any expense as a business exp. So can't blame them. It's really important to do your taxes right. Listen to Grown up stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
- [01:21]
Tim Miller
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Today's guest is the newest senior reporter here at the Bulwark. He joined us from the Washington Post, where he covered the media and conspiracy theories and other such matters. He's the author of Trust the the rise of QAnon and the conspiracy that Unhinged America, and he's the former host of one of my favorite pods. It was called Fever Dreams. At the Daily Beast, it's Will Sommer, and right now he's living that fever dream. Your fever dreams are our reality, I guess, is what I meant.
- [01:52]
Matt
Yes, we're all in the fever dream now, right?
- [01:55]
Tim Miller
I want to start by, before we get to the news, by doing your backstory. I mean, I guess we all imagined that Trump could possibly win again, right? It was not like we were totally blindsided by that possibility, particularly here at the Bulwark. But I mean, did you ever imagine when you were covering the fever swamps of QAnon back four or five years ago doing this podcast, that these people would be literally running the country? It's true now, even in a way that it wasn't in 2018.
- [02:25]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, it's difficult to imagine. I feel like sort of every step on the road, and I'm sure a Lot of people feel like this is that. It's like every step is like, wow, I never would have thought it would have come to this. The idea that we're at the point where Dan Bongino getting appointed to the FBI or Cash Patel even to head the FBI. I think it's like, oh, Cash Patel, the recurring Steve Bannon guest. And it's like, oh, of course, now that that's such a common thing, I mean, it's a lot to grapple with. And I think it sort of alarmingly raises questions about what's going to happen in two or three years from now. But at the same time, I think that's why there's such value in kind of keeping up with these charact.
- [02:57]
Tim Miller
And I say this to people who are not of this world, which include kind of my normie former Republican friends as well as liberals and progressives. I'm like, I know these people. And it gives me a different perspective on what we have to come. I guess I won't jaundice you by telling you what I think. The fact that you have just entrenched yourselves in these fever swamps, does that make you more alarmed, more concerned, more feeling like it's going to just be a clown show, like, you know, how does your perspective inform what you think is ahead here?
- [03:31]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, well, you know, I grew up as like a young teen Republican in Texas. I mean, I was like obsessed with like Bill O'Reilly and Ayn Rand and all this stuff. And I, you know, I would stay up late listening to talk radio and it really sticks out to me. I was like in 8th grade listening to Michael Savage and he was like, we just gotta nuke China, just nuke those dams and flood the whole country. And I thought, man, if this is what like one of the main voices in the party wants or you know, in the right wing media, I feel like there's this disconnect between the voters and what the politicians politicians are doing, which is, you know, like cutting Social Security, trying to balance the budget, stuff like that. And ultimately we saw that that contradiction resolved by Trump who, you know, is giving the voters all these kind of atavistic giving into their urges. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it is ominous for me because to be keeping up with this stuff so closely and then think, well, geez, you know, it seems like Trump is really willing to do a lot of things for the base and so what is he going to do next?
- [04:20]
Tim Miller
So, well, the shorthand of that is what you're telling me is that what the realization I came to about the, the dangers of my party, like in my thir. Was something you realized in eighth grade, was that the short, Was that the short summary.
- [04:33]
Matt
It went on for a few more years and then I was, I was like, very, I was working for this, this like, state senate primary campaign in Texas, and Dan Patrick, who's now the lieutenant governor, he won and he beat my candidate. And I thought, well, that guy's like a total lunatic. If this is what he went in a landslide. And I thought, if this is. That was kind of like my crisis moment with the GOP where I thought, if this is what the voters want, I mean, that's not what I want, you know, and so I think I have to go. Go another direction.
- [04:58]
Tim Miller
I wish I had my crisis moment in high school. Yeah. I mean, look, the thing that I tell you is I don't want to judge lest I be judged in these sort of situations. I try to follow the guidelines and the morals that I was taught as a youth, but I tell people, these people are worse than you think. And I had an opportunity to hang out with one of these kind of bro podcaster guys recently, you know, who obviously doesn't know anything about politics and has been having, you know, Republicans on the pod. And that's like, what I tried to get through to them is I was like, I don't think you actually know these people. I don't think that you're necessarily a bad person. I said that a lot of these people are very bad and their intentions and motives are bad. And if you follow them over time and see the way that they act, you know, and the way that they change their tune to meet the moment in the way that they're needlessly cruel to people, to advance themselves. Right. Like, I just. The evidence piles up that there are many people, maybe not the entire Trump administration, but many people who are ill motived. And that to me is like the most alarming thing that I, I try to get through to people. I don't know, am I, am I being too harsh?
- [06:07]
Matt
Well, no, I think there's a lot to that. I mean, you think about Trump's interview on Joe Rogan where people said, oh, he just came off like a normal guy. I thought he'd be kind of foaming at the mouth or doing Hitler salutes or what have you. And so you have to kind of, as you said, you have to kind of build up as I, as I do. I mean, I build up kind of files on these people and, and build up kind of like what they're. That's why I'm so fascinated by kind of the feuds and the kind of these inflection where people really have to sort of reveal themselves.
- [06:30]
Tim Miller
Yeah, right. Well, we're going to do an around the world with some of the people that you've built up files on over the years at the end of the pod. But we've got to do a little bit of news and I guess this is news in the world that we live in now. But Trump is out with a bleat. That's how we find out what's happening in this country. And today's announcement is kind of an interesting one. He says that he's going to buy a brand new Tesla today as a show of confidence and support for Elon Musk. He does that on the heels of an interview last night that Elon Musk did with Larry Kudlow. I'm about to play the clip. Musk in this clip is, it seems to me, on the brink of tears and he's withering and hemming and hawing in the face of softball questioning from, from Kudlow who worked in the Trump administration and could best be described as a lick spittle. So here, here's Musk responding to Larry Kudlow's very tough question.
- [07:24]
Matt
How are you running your other. With great difficulty. Yeah, I mean, but there's no turning back. You're saying, I'm just here trying to make government more efficient, eliminate waste and fraud. And so far we're making good progress.
- [07:52]
Tim Miller
The pauses are longer every time I listen to it.
- [07:55]
Matt
That sigh that side, that mic, really crisp mic for the sigh there.
- [08:01]
Tim Miller
What do you make of this? I mean, obviously Elon's like, the Tesla stock is crashing. The rocket was shooting debris over the Gulf of Mexico. I do have to say producer Jason is wearing a Gulf of Mexico shirt today. So it's another message to you, Eagle eyed Martin. You can come at this podcast if you want, if you think that it's worth targeting over. Wrong speak. But he has the some failings in his private businesses. I guess Trump is trying to bail him out. The folks that you're monitoring, what do they make of the fact that Elon is like pretty obviously unraveling? I don't think it's tds to look at that interview and be like, this is a man that is losing his grips on things.
- [08:38]
Matt
Well, it's interesting to see, as you pointed out, I mean, Larry Kudlow is not really grilling Elon. He's just saying, how do you do such an amazing job saving the country and running all these businesses.
- [08:47]
Tim Miller
And Elon goes, oh, my God. I don't know. It's not going well.
- [08:51]
Matt
I mean, it's. It's remarkable. I mean, it's just crazy to think about the Tesla brand even just since this administration started in December. I had a family member who was like, well, you know, kind of California Democrat. Well, maybe I'll buy a Tesla. I don't love Elon, but now, I mean, the idea of buying a Tesla just seems crazy, I think, for liberals, at least.
- [09:07]
Tim Miller
For sure. Yeah. No, I've been discussing about how, how much joy I got on Lundy Gras watching people pelt the cybertrucks with beads. It was a big father moment for me, having to tell my child, my 7 year old, that she couldn't participate in that. You know, I was like, we've got to be the bigger people, okay? We can't. We can't pelt it with beads. Silently inside, I'm, I'm beaming as part of this, right? Like, they're the people in MAGA world who are just. They're on board for everything. Like, we're so excited for doge. Whatever Mr. Trump says we're on board with. You have the more ideological maga, if you will, the ban and wing, the people that have an actual view of nationalism, maybe a skepticism of the big tech oligarchs, a skepticism of the fact that there are, like so many South African billionaires around the president right now. And then you have people that just, like, want to succeed. Like, I've seen in my feeds, some, you know, just like, random, like, MAGA people that I follow that are just kind of like a little worried about, like, just that the Elon thing is, is hurting Trump, right? That he's just not that effective. Like, what, what are you kind of seeing out there? Do you see any fishers? Obviously there doesn't seem to fish between Trump and Elon since he's trying to boost his company right now, which is, I guess it shouldn't go without saying, is like, not very presidential material, like in the past. So if Reagan was, like, holding up the product of his biggest, of his biggest donor, I think that would have been maybe a scandal in the newspaper the next morning. But anyway, what. What are you seeing out there?
- [10:32]
Matt
It is striking. I mean, I feel like we're so just through the looking glass, but the idea of the President being like, look, my buddy's company's in trouble. You got to go buy, buy, buy. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I mean, there are. It strikes me as a sort of a weak point, a weak moment for Elon. A lot of these agencies previously did not have heads or people were kind of the cabinet heads were just getting in control of them. Now we're starting to see, obviously the Times reported on the Sean Duffy Elon fight, and I think there's a lot more of that. Like, all right, buddy, like, back off, stop sending your. The 12 year olds into my office to fire. There's this kind of classic challenge between what you describe as the Bannonite wing, perhaps, and their main focus is immigration, deporting people, building the wall, sort of, I think Russia tilting foreign policy as secondary. But they don't really care that much about the budget. And so they don't care about these kind of hack and slash things that they know are going to just anger people and get them kicked out of office or lose control of Congress quicker. And so that's kind of the fracture point.
- [11:24]
Tim Miller
Bannon would be happy to tax the Elon's of the world. Where they come into alignment is they do both want liberal, deep state bureaucrats to suffer.
- [11:32]
Matt
Yes.
- [11:33]
Tim Miller
Right. And so they're getting a little bit of joy out of that. Right. Like, but again, this is where the, the Trump line from about the using a scalpel, not a sledgehammer. Like, I mean, like when I was interviewing Bannon and I asked him, like, who do you want him to go after? I knew he was like, talking specifically about the TV lawyers because they annoy him, because he watches a lot of cable news. And it's like the FBI, you know, the FBI officials and the DOJ officials that investigated Trump and like the random liberal boogeyman at, you know, the EPA and the Department of Education. It's not like they were out there clamoring for, you know, the people in Los Alamos to get fired. Right. Or like the VA to be unraveled. Right. Like, some of the VA people are like, are listening to Bannon. Right. I mean, like, there's just been totally indiscriminate in a way that I think is not helping him on the one area where they might have been aligned.
- [12:25]
Matt
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think they're missing the. Or there's a sense of like, that's why USAID made such a tasty target for them, because it's like, you know, it's these, these liberal pencil necks who are helping people in other countries. It is surprising to me that the VA has been such an immediate target, because, you know, you would think of that as something you. You wouldn't really hit to avoid alienating Trump voters. The other thing about Bannon is, like, I think it's important to keep in mind how much of his agita towards tech people is motivated by his belief that we're going to become robots, essentially. I think a lot of people underscore, like, he has a Singularity correspondent, a who comes on the show every couple weeks, and. And the Singularity being, by the way, the moment our consciousnesses are uploaded into the matrix, essentially we all become robots. And so, I mean, this is like a very pressing issue to him. On the other hand, Elon is implanting chips in people's brains, so he's really on the. They're on the opposite sides of, like, do we become cyborgs? And for both of them, they. They see this as like, a very, like, these very relevant issue.
- [13:18]
Tim Miller
Okay, well, had Kamala won and had there been no news today, I would have just derailed the entire podcast and we would have spent the rest of the time Discussing the Singularity vs Cybor War between Bannon and Musk. But unfortunately, we have other stuff to get to, so we'll come back to that on another show. Right. A lot of people have been following the drama related to Aretha, the neighborhood cat that became our cat that is now maybe the neighborhood cat again. I'll give you a quick update here. So during the 100 year winter storm, while I was stuck in New York City, my husband and child invited the neighborhood cat that we'd been feeding Aretha into the home. They thought they pulled one over on me because I'm not really a pet man myself, but they were so delighted. And, you know, I just. I accepted it. I accepted it, accepted that it was going to be my reality. But the cats still like to go outside sometimes. My daughter really loves the Lion King, so we used to joke about how sometimes the cat likes to roam the Pride Land, sometimes it likes to come back. As the weather's gotten warmer, as we've moved into spring, what we found is that Aretha actually prefers the Pridelands to the home. And so while it still comes back from time to time to get as Smalls, and it's still occasionally persuaded to come back by a jiggling of the Smalls treats by my daughter, I'm finding out that maybe I didn't get the house count that I thought I had agreed to after all. So, to me, it kind of feels like a win win. Aretha is Getting its Small's cat food. And you know, I'm getting a part time pet, I'm getting the credit. Everybody's happy. So this podcast is sponsored by my now favorite podcast sponsor, maybe Smalls. Smalls cat food is protein packed with preservative free ingredients you'd find in your fridge and it's delivered right to your door. That's why cats.com named Smalls the best overall cat food. To get 50% off your first order plus free shipping, head to smalls.com and use our promo code, the Bulwark. After switching to smalls, 88% of cat owners reported overall health improvements. That's a big deal. The team at Smalls is so confident your cat will love their product that you can try it risk free. That means they'll refund you if your cat won't eat their food. What are you waiting for? Give your cat the food they deserve. Head to smalls.com and use promo code thebullwerk at checkout for 50% off your first order plus free shipping. That's the best offer you'll find. But you have to use my code thebullwerk for 50% off your first order. One last time. That's promo code thebullwerk for 50 percent off your first order plus free shipping.
- [15:57]
Matt
Politics, culture, you name it, we're talking about it and we're keeping it 100% real right here on the Michael Steele Podcast. I'm Michael Steele. I'm the host of the Michael Steele Podcast. Each week I'm having conversations with political analysts, writers and activists who aren't afraid to shake things up a little bit, like yours truly. It doesn't matter if you're on the left, the right, or somewhere in that strong middle. This is the space you want to be in. Because we cut through the noise and hit the heart of the issue. Oh, and we're definitely going to have some fun while we do it. So grab that drink, hit play, settle.
- [16:35]
Tim Miller
Back, and let's get into it.
- [16:36]
Matt
Catch the Michael Steele podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Groove on.
- [16:44]
Tim Miller
I wanted to get your take on the Maha wars. I mentioned on yesterday's podcast that RFK had been kind of quiet, which I'm happy about. Less rfk, the better. I think the more dilettante rfk, like hanging out with the rich people that had snubbed him, the better. The more RFK meeting with researchers and the NIH and telling them that they, you know, have to look into different solutions for the Mumps the worse. But RFK came back out in the public yesterday. He's at Steak n Shake. This hurts me. As a St. Louis native born in St. Louis, steak and Shake was very formative to my childhood. A lot of Steak and Shake rewards after my report cards came in. And Steak and Shake has gone maha. Allegedly. At least. At least for branding purposes. We'll get into that in a second. And been posting about how they are now making their fries beef tallow. And as appreciation for that, Hannity and RFK went to a Steak n Shake and did an interview yesterday. I want to play you a clip from it. Steak and Shake has been great. We're very grateful for them for rfking the french fries. They turned me into a verb. But also Popeyes, by the way, a plastic straw. Thank you.
- [17:58]
Matt
Thank God.
- [17:59]
Tim Miller
I can't stand those paper straws. I hate them. Okay, all right. You see RFK uncomfortably kind of laughing there. I think RFK probably be on the side of paper straws. He's not sure exactly where he is on the culture wars. Also in the interview, the waiter, the poor waiter brings RFK a free shake. It is called Steak and Shake. And RFK freaks out and like has like a moment where he stares at the camera like it's like one of the TV shows with a confessional. And he's like, I didn't know what this. I didn't order this. He stares right at the lens. It was very, it's a very uncomfortable moment. But talk to us about the Steak and Shake affair and what's been happening with the beef tallow.
- [18:36]
Matt
Yeah, so this is an unusually controversial choice, I guess for a fast food stop. Yeah. So last week Steak and Shake tried to rebrand as the sort of like anti woke fast food chain. They, they put up some stuff with like kind of suspiciously kind of like Nazi type font, like a lot of like gothic font about their burgers. And they said, well, we're going to start doing our fries only in beef tallow. And so the, there's sort of like this paranoia about seed oil. So like canola oil, other oils, this idea that they're like introducing some sort of like impurities into your body. This is very big on the right. They call them the sinister oils. They call the Hateful Eight. So it's like, you know, it's good. They're not getting over dramatic about it.
- [19:15]
Tim Miller
But the hate ate oils.
- [19:16]
Matt
Yes.
- [19:17]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
- [19:17]
Matt
So it's like the oils, it's like, you know, canola oil is olive oil.
- [19:21]
Tim Miller
In the Hateful Eight. Or is that on the good side?
- [19:23]
Matt
I was curious about this, actually. The olive oil is safe, I guess.
- [19:27]
Tim Miller
Okay, so.
- [19:27]
Matt
So that's all good. And so they say, what the what instead they want to cook things in is beef tallow. So beef fat. Now, when Steak and shake said, well, we're doing beef tallow, people said, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. But then some of these, like Maha influencers, this woman named Alex Clark said, well, actually, no, it's. It's pre. Their fries are pre treated in seed oil, which seems to. And I mean, this is getting to the point trying to figure this out that I need to go to a Steak and Shake and just go in the kitchen. Because I asked Steak and Shake about this and they didn't get back to me. But they said to Alex Hark, they said, well, supply chains are hard, essentially. They basically said, you're right. They said, well, who's to say, you know, we're trying to get the beef tallow in? Another guy, a Maha guys showed up at a Steak and Shake and said, I want to see the beef tallow. And they said, well, here's a picture on our cell phone of what it looks like. It's very like citize journalists, like, you know, they're trying to figure it out.
- [20:16]
Tim Miller
It doesn't seem like RFK really cares. He's just happy that he's been verbed.
- [20:23]
Matt
Yes, exactly. They said, yeah, we've rfk.
- [20:26]
Tim Miller
Maybe they'll send inspectors. We fired most of hhs. I don't know if they've got any. Any staff yet. They can reapportion some of the people that were supposed to be doing research on infectious disease and have them go to random steak and shakes to test whether any of the hateful Eight oils. I've pulled them up just for people who are concerned. Soybean oil, corn oil, canola, sunflower, cottonseed, safflower, grapeseed, or rice bran. Oh, boy. I'm sure some of our soybean farmers will probably be unhappy to learn that they're part of the Hateful Eight.
- [20:56]
Matt
Well, they really hate soy. I mean, soy is probably the most hateful. Right. Because that's why they call you soy boys. They think it's feminizing and all that. Yeah.
- [21:05]
Tim Miller
Do you sense when you're following these? Because Maha influencers is one area that I've not really delved into. Do you think that there is going to be an awakening, awakening moment where they realize that, like the other, the people that they have now aligned with actually don't care about them at all.
- [21:23]
Matt
You know, it's a good question. I mean, there is this, this tension where they say, oh, yeah, you know, it is time we get America healthy again and all this. But, I mean, you think back to Michelle Obama's, you know, let's get moving. Let's give kids like a piece of lettuce. Exactly. For lunch. And just the huge reaction and the idea that, you know, we're going to tell all these gigantic food conglomerates that, you know, back the Republican Party to, you know, suddenly get into, you know, ditch the hateful, et cetera, I mean, just seems very slim and so. But for now, I mean, I don't know, it seems like RFK is probably skeptical enough of vaccines and all that. That'll probably keep them happy.
- [21:56]
Tim Miller
And also during the interview, Hannity orders a Coke and then like, he kind of apologizes to RFK for it and he's like, oh, this guy might get mad at me. He's like, I won't drink the whole thing. And it's just like this is very, very opposite to the fact that Fox primetime, like paid their bills on anti nanny state thing. Like, making fun of the nanny state was, was like the bread and butter for a while. And like here you have like the, the signature Fox host, like, literally apologizing to the nanny sitting across the table from him for ordering a Coke. I just don't know how long that marriage is going to last. I want to get into Pam Bondi drama because we haven't talked about it at all on the pod Bondi. You might think that some of the things that people would be concerned about are the fact that she's basically said that we're not investigating foreign interference elections anymore. We're not investigating a lot of different white collar crimes. It's going to be a really golden age for white collar criminals right now. And that the controversy might circle around that from the working man. But instead, people are mad at her because she has not fully publicized the documents around a couple of key conspiracies that they have. The Seth Rich conspiracy and the Epstein thing. We'll get into the Epstein binders. She did kind of a half job on that. What's the deal with the Seth Rich thing?
- [23:15]
Matt
So there's this whole demand for disclosure and we're gonna get the documents. In the Seth Rich case, there's a lawyer who's been suing for several years now to get the FBI files on Seth Rich, who of course was murdered in 2016. A Democratic staffer just really Quick.
- [23:28]
Tim Miller
For people who don't. It's such a fucking horrible story. It's so sick. This poor guy is murdered coming home from the bar late at night, and his family has been harassed for years because he became the center of, you know, this controversy that, like, the Clintons had murdered him because he had the secret document that knew that Bernie should have won or whatever. And there's this really great book, Murder on W Street by Andy Kroll is a great reporter about this. And it's just the way that this family was treated is horrific. And so anyway, they're now trying to, I guess, resurrect that.
- [24:03]
Matt
Yeah, right. And the key to that would be that if you proved, I mean, there's no evidence, but if you proved that Seth Rose Rich leaked the DNC emails to WikiLeaks, then that would mean the Russia hack was fake and so Trump would be exonerated. And so that's kind of like why they pursued it. So this guy has been pushing for these documents forever. I suspect the documents are just, you know, the D.C. police saying, yeah, we think it was a botched robbery and that's it. But now that the FBI has continued to withhold the documents and said, well, maybe we'll give you a list of the documents. So now that we see these pro Trump influencers saying, you know, Pam Bondi, God darn it, you got to release this stuff. And let's say she does release it, they're still going to be mad because there's not a document that says Hillary Clinton. Here's a picture of Hillary Clinton shooting Seth Rich. And so that's going to keep going. And I think she's. I mean, it depends how much Trump cares about this stuff. Probably not hugely, but I do think she's really being set up to take the fall for a lot of these conspiracy theories not coming true to this point.
- [24:54]
Tim Miller
Also on the Epstein files, she tried to split the baby, I guess, on this. We covered this a little bit on the podcast last week. But just to set the stage, there's this demand to. And I don't really understand. Me and Matt Iglesias are aligned in this. I don't really understand how the left let the Jeffrey Epstein prison murder become a right coded conspiracy theory when, like, if Jeffrey Epstein was murdered in prison, like it happened during the Trump administration and Trump and Epstein were friends, and Barr and Epstein, that Barr was ag, they had connections. And Acosta, who was in the Trump cabinet, had very deep connections to Epstein. I did a long interview with the best reporter on this a while, Julie Brown, we'll put it in the show notes, people want to go and listen, learn more about the Epstein conspiracies. But anyway, despite that, it's become this conspiracy on the right, that it's like the left, the deep state was covering this up to protect deep state left wing people. And so they demanded a list of, you know, all of the Epstein associates, even though much of that list has been reported by Julie Brown. And they, and they demanded some other materials, I guess so. So that's the backstory. So take us to kind of what, what has been happening since that there's.
- [26:06]
Matt
This real focus on. They, they imagine that there's this huge like client list that's going to be, you know, Oprah, Tom Hanks and whoever. And it's going to be very vindicating. But on the other hand, as you said, I mean, Julie Brown, who knows this better than anybody and other Epstein reporters have said there isn't really a client list. The names have been redacted. Mostly victims or people who weren't really involved, but just who come up in the documents nevertheless. I mean, Pam Bondi was kind of ramping this up. She said, I've got the list on my desk, we've just got to review it. And so then a few days later, all these influencers, these, these MAGA people come to the White House for an unrelated meeting. Then according to ABC's reporting, Pam Bondi then was said, won't we will surprise them with the Epstein documents. And so she and Cash showed up and said like, hey, we got them. And then as we know, it turned out to be nearly entirely previously released files, but it still occasioned this kind of like, you know, in retrospect, kind of sick photo op. Everyone's like, look, you know, we got evidence of the child trafficking.
- [26:59]
Tim Miller
Yeah, they're the smiling.
- [27:00]
Matt
Yeah. Very happy about it because they say that they were sending the message to the press. They were taking pictures of them. Like, we're the media now.
- [27:08]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it's a bizarre thing. I mean like stepping back from everything, like the people that they chose. Right. Like the doj. I mean, if you were going to do something like this, I don't know, I'm trying to think about, like back when I was a flack, you know, way in the before times. I remember, for example, we were going to give a select group of reporters Jebs tax returns. Right. Because it was, you know, to try to pressure Trump to put out his tax returns. This is, you know, simpler times and obviously was A strategy that backfired. So the communications director gets a negative mark on that one. But, you know, it's like we picked a couple friendly reporters, Right. So hopefully they focus on the nice stuff where he gave money to charity or whatever. But then you give a call, you know, you have the AP in there, like give a finance expert in there. So. So, you know, there lend some credibility to it. Like, that is not at all what happened here. Like, just talk about the group that was included and that was given these. This binder full of. Of sex offenders.
- [28:08]
Matt
Yeah. And in this case, these are even more sensitive documents. Let's make sure they're treated with, you know, the discretion and the respect, you know, that this issue deserves. Right.
- [28:16]
Tim Miller
Think about the victims. Right on. Respect, right? Yeah, yeah.
- [28:19]
Matt
Instead of a sort of a party favor for visiting the White House. And so instead we get. We have Mike Cernovich and Jack Posobic, who are kind of like notorious pizzagate promoters and sort of right wing media characters, I guess, when it comes to the credibility of their claims, perhaps I would not give them the Epstein documents. We have a woman named Jessica Reed Krause who I think, you know, put a pin in that. I think she's going to become like, this is one to character.
- [28:41]
Tim Miller
So she's a.
- [28:42]
Matt
Yes. And so she's called House Inhabit on Instagram and she kind of emerged. She was kind of like a lifestyle blogger in Orange county. And then she got really RFK pilled and then, you know, kind of became part of his entourage and. And had kind of like a feud with Olivia Nuzzy over RFK and all this stuff. And so she got one and now she's kind of like a citizen sleuth. But this sort of backfired because the influencers who weren't invited, like Laura Loomer then start digging up things on the ones who were to prove that they're, you know, deep stage shills. And that's why we didn't get the real news. And they found this picture of the Krause once wearing a free Ghislaine Maxwell shirt.
- [29:17]
Tim Miller
Which is the House inhabit lady from Instagram.
- [29:19]
Matt
Yes.
- [29:20]
Tim Miller
Okay. I'm just trying to get my character straight. She was wearing a free Ghislaine.
- [29:24]
Matt
Yes. And so I don't know the situation where you ever think that's a good idea. You know, she said at the time, she was like, look at my provocative shirt, which it certainly is.
- [29:32]
Tim Miller
DC Drano was also there.
- [29:34]
Matt
Yeah, DC Drano, Chad Prather, who are kind of like maga meme Lords. This is kind of like the equivalent of like Carpe Dankdom, if people remember him, kind of, you know, people who make like funny little video edits or memes.
- [29:47]
Tim Miller
Yeah. It's interesting because in addition to just the absurdity that the Department of Justice gives random lifestyle Instagrammers these sensitive documents, this just telling who they are trying to cater to, that's something I was working on that kind of hit the cutting room floor. But it was the New York Young Republican Dinner, gala dinner. This is one of the MAGA Young Republican groups. I remember being struck by like Trump is at the head table when, like, who was with him at the table? It was like some people that people will know of, like Bannon and Posobiek. But then it was like these folks, like he goes on stage and he's like, he name checks DC Drano and he's name checking. Right. Like all these other people. And it's like that is this circle. Right. Like, this is why this is so important. Like, I think I've said this before, but it's like this. It's like the Men in Black where, where the tabloids have the real news. It's like these are the people that they're going to give special access to over the next four years. And so not that they're going to be offering real news, but like you'll be able to learn things that will not have been provided to actual journalists.
- [31:03]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, there's sort of like a Kremlinology to it. And so you can see like, it's like, oh, well, everyone is turning on, for example, after this debacle on Pam Bondi. And so that seems to be reflecting some anger within the administration or the idea that she's been set up as the scapegoat. One of you know, these Twitter accounts that obviously have the verified thing and it's just like, you know, FBI real news. Last week they reported, or I should say loosely reported, oh, Cash wants private bodyguards. He's concerned about his security. That's the kind of thing that obviously I discounted. It got 10,000 retweets. And then last night some real news outlets supported, tweeted that, there you go.
- [31:37]
Tim Miller
That'S Men in Black. It's happening. The tabloids have the real news. The blue. The random blue checks have the real news.
- [31:43]
Matt
Exactly, yeah.
- [31:45]
Tim Miller
The cash, as you mentioned it, that's the other thing I've been noticing in the scuttle. Cash is already kind of taking some shots at Bondi, even though he sort of works for her. Right. Like, there is already some sense there that, like, he wants her to be the fall guy for this stuff.
- [32:03]
Matt
Yeah. Well, within hours of this, the binder debacle, you know, she sent him a letter saying, you know, cash, ooh, you held back the good documents. And then they sort of seem to have triangulated it on like, well, let's blame SDNY and the, and the FBI office there because maybe we want to purge them anyway. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely this back and forth where then he says, well, you know, I gave you the documents. Now there's supposedly more documents to come. I mean, but this is a, this is sort of a going to be a fruitless journey, but one that I think continues going on with that the JFK files, all these sort of files.
- [32:34]
Tim Miller
It's just the reality of where we are that, like, this is probably something that makes Bundy more vulnerable than, like, legitimate scandals. Right. Like, like, if something is going to cost her her standing in the administration and in mega, it is going to be, you know, getting on the wrong side of like, these mega influencer weirdos. Right. Like, not, you know, the way that she's dismissed people within the DOJ who are just doing their job.
- [33:08]
Matt
Yeah, certainly, I think these kind of scandals, or the idea of many scandals, perhaps the idea that, like, if it just becomes reflexively like, oh, you know, she's a rhino. Right. Like, as you know, I mean, that is kind of like once you get hit with that, then every time anything goes bad in the Justice Department or they don't indict, you know, some random Democratic member of Congress, they don't like, they're going to say, you know, this is because Pam Bondi is running interference for them. And you, once you get hit with that, it's kind of hard to get back in their good side. And, you know, certainly not something like not enforcing the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. They don't care about that.
- [33:40]
Tim Miller
Well, the scary thing is, no, the way to get back on their good side is to do ridiculous things on their behalf. And so, like, this takes us to one which is not Bondi, but it's the administration. But it's like, this explains the Tate brothers stuff, Right. And so I know you'd written about them at the Washington Post, and now there's a little bit of this intra maga divide over there, but we've been talking to these guys so listeners know, but like they're, you know, this becomes a priority of the administration, I guess, allowing them travel and a reprieve from the legal targeting, not legal targeting, like the legitimate investigations of the Romanians and the UK had been doing against them. And now they're like palling around with, with Dana White and Vegas. Cash is there, Zuckerberg's there. And, you know, one way to kind of signal to the MAGA audience that like you are on their side is to be like, I'll defend, I'll, I'll do the most ridiculous thing possible. Like I'll defend these guys who. Unapologetic, misogynist, sexual assaults, conspirators, et cetera.
- [34:45]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, the Tate thing is, I think so fascinating. When the Tates were first under investigation for human trafficking a few years ago, it was striking to me how few ties they did have to the MAGA movement at the time. I mean, they were living in Britain and then Romania. They went to the Trump Hotel with kind of some right wing influencers, but otherwise other than that, they weren't huge figures. It's only after, I mean, you would think that this would have been the fall was the human trafficking investigation, but they actually have become stars since then. And so this idea that the, the U.S. pressured Romania to let them travel and then, you know, once they're here, and particularly if they get on a plane to Dubai or something, I mean, they're going to escape justice. I mean, they're also wanted in the uk. And so you have this interesting divide where I think kind of more your classic conservative types, Ron DeSantis, the Ben Shapiro crew, etc. They, I think, understandably, do not think conservatives should embrace alleged human traffickers, people who are on video. I mean, it's not even an allegation. I mean, they said all this stuff about sort of entrapping women into cam operations and all this kind of stuff. Andrew Taylor's wanted on rape charges in the uk and then you have kind of the more, you know, whatever will get me clicks, or the more Trumpian types who are more than happy to host them on their podcasts, as you said, Dana White embraced them. It was striking to me that not really a Trump figure, but someone from Vanderpump Rules also took pictures with them. And then he said, oh my gosh, I didn't know who those guys were. You know, I denounced them.
- [36:06]
Tim Miller
Mario Lopez did. Slater.
- [36:08]
Matt
Yeah, exactly.
- [36:09]
Tim Miller
What's up, Slater? What are you doing?
- [36:12]
Matt
It's interesting also to have this kind of focus on Epstein and human trafficking and all. That's the worst thing you can do. But then also say, oh, come on in, Andrew Tate.
- [36:20]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it's the good type of human trafficking. It's the MAGA human trafficking. The Shapiro part is interesting because I think work with me here on this theory, but it goes to the vice signaling of all of this. In order to get the MAGA audience to really feel like you're on their side, you have to take positions that are anathema to elite sensibilities or to even moralistic sensibilities. Forget elite sensibilities. So while Shapiro is holding the line, if you will, by saying that the Tate brothers are bad, he's simultaneously doing a MAGA media tour right now talking about how Trump should pardon Derek Schultz Chauvin, the cop that killed George Floyd with the knee to the neck. And this media tour is pretty. He's on Charlie Kirk's podcast talking about this in addition to talking about on his own. He's really been pushing this. And Trump doesn't even have a lot of jurisdiction here. It's a local charge. There is a more minor federal charge, but it wouldn't get him out of jail. And so to me, Ben is just betraying that. Okay, it's a calculation to demonstrate that I'm still on the MAGA culture war side of things. I'm just going to take an outlier position. And if I'm not going to do this on the Tates or on what, on whatever, on being pro Putin, then I've got to find some other thing to do it on and I'm going to do it with Derek Chauvin. What do you think about that theory?
- [37:46]
Matt
I think there's a lot to that. I think each of these people kind of evaluates their audience and their reputations and say, okay, well, it's gonna be a little difficult for me to endorse an alleged human trafficker. You know, maybe, maybe on a women's issue I'll have to shy away, but on a race issue, I can, you know, just say, yeah, you know, pardon Derek Chauvin.
- [38:03]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Hi, I'm Matt.
- [38:06]
Matt
And I'm Leah and we're from the Grown Up Stuff podcast. And just in time for tax season, on this week's episode, we're chatting with CPA Lisa Green Lewis about how small businesses can tackle their taxes using TurboTax Business. A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes. And 17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any expense as a business expense. So can't blame them. It's really important to do your taxes right. Listen to grown up stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Grown up stuff. Target made good and gather for you. Helping you save on delicious salads chopped and ready for quick, easy meals. Everyday favorites at unbeatable prices. We made good and gather for you only at Target.
- [39:04]
Tim Miller
All right. As I tease at the top, I want to do around the world of Trumpistan for people. Kids, we've talked about all these people, but unfortunately, well, you don't have to. I guess everybody has the option to just not care about this and live your life and tend to your garden. And I, and I honor that choice if you've chosen to do this. But if you want to know what's happening in the Trump administration, unfortunately, you have to understand these people. And so a couple of characters, I mentioned him earlier in the pod. You've been covering all these guys for a while now. So I just want you to give us a little nugget on them, a little, a little Backstory. The Washington, D.C. the U.S. attorney, Ed Martin. Eagle Ed Martin, yeah.
- [39:44]
Matt
Ed Martin's a fascinating guy. I don't think he has any experience as a prosecutor. No, I was previously aware of him because Phyllis Schlafly, sort of the anti feminist icon who died maybe a decade ago or so, he was kind of like her chief crony. And there was this big flap, like control of her legacy. And so I was familiar with. He got this memo that was just like, here's how we wrest the control of Phyllis Schlafly's image away.
- [40:06]
Tim Miller
And I'm going from memory, is it not true? Wasn't he on the side of the gay son? But like the gay son was kind of like a self hating gay or.
- [40:15]
Matt
Something, I think is Andy Schlafly.
- [40:17]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I feel like they aligned against the more against like because they went MAGA and they aligned against the more religious children.
- [40:27]
Matt
I'm going just from memory, I think that's exactly. Yeah. I can't remember sort of the disposition of the other children, but it was like they went with sort of even like a more kind of aggressive, like name. It was sort of a more aggressive like MAGA type brand. And so there was that. And then when he got appointed, I was like, wait, like the Phyllis Schlafly guy? You know, because I think I talked to him at the time when I was writing about it. And U.S. attorney is also a uniquely important role in D.C. because it also prosecutes sort of street crime and drugs and gun stuff, unlike other jurisdictions. And so I thought, oh, Geez. I thought there was supposed to be this, like, we were gon take crime in D.C. really seriously. I thought that was part of the administration's job. But instead, we get him. This is the guy who's posting the letters. People may have seen Elon. I heard that they're coming after Doge. You know, I'm working on the president's behalf, or I think he described himself as Trump's lawyer in one case. And so it's kind of a clown show so far.
- [41:16]
Tim Miller
Yeah, you bring up a good point. I talked about this a little bit with Scup yesterday. Like, the crime was allegedly one of the kind of core tenets of what they're running on. And so this D.C. u.S. Attorney, Pennsylvania pick. Right. Like, you know, crime D.C. is up. All the Trump people are living there now. Like, you could have imagined a route that they went where they picked somebody that was like a very draconian, like, aggressive, like, crime stopping U.S. attorney that was, like, going to clean up D.C. or whatever. And instead they've, like, done the opposite. Like, and this guy is, like, writing letters to Georgetown about how they have too many DEI offices in their college and, you know, sending off letter, you know, attacking the AP for not using Gulf of America and. Right. Like. And like a total clown with no prosecutorial experience who is clearly not focused at all on actual crime in the District of Columbia.
- [42:17]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, this is the same prosecutor who sent a letter to, I believe, Chuck Schumer and another member of Congress for saying, you know, say something like, you got to bring a. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Like, these kind of, like, rhetorical gambits and saying, you know, were you threatening to kill someone?
- [42:31]
Tim Miller
Yes, it was. Chuck, really was. He was threatening. He was threatening murder. You got him, Ed. We'll see you in court, Chuck. All right. You mentioned him earlier. Deputy FBI Director. Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino, before I give. You get to give your backstory, because I don't think I've gotten to this on the pod yet. I have actually two facts that I want to share from my side. Number one is I have on good authority that. Or I guess this is public now. Yes, this is public now. That Cash met with, like, the FBI union, like the. The Bureau, the agents union met with the leadership and. And promised them that he was gonna have a deputy that was somebody that had experience, and there were. There were certain, you know, kind of metrics that they wanted the deputy to have. Cash agreed to that. Cash suggested you hate to hand it to Cash. But Cash suggested, apparently a couple of people that would have fit this bill. Bill Trump says no, overrules him, picks Bongino, who has no experience, has never been an agent. And then Boncino can't join for a week because he's got to keep podcasting to fulfill the obligations to his advertisers, including one advertiser that's like, we protect you from the deep state which Dan Bongino is about to be. The whole thing is just so fucking ridiculous. So, anyway, I'm sorry. Ball's in your court, Dan. Bonnie.
- [43:51]
Matt
Well, I mean, you know, it's important to have your priorities straight. You know, get those referral codes out, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, Dan Bongino is a guy I became aware of, just sort of, like, driving around D.C. and listening to the local talk radio. And this was like a local talk radio guy. I mean, 13 years ago, 14 years ago, and he was a former Secret Service agent, and he would call in and say, you know, oh, Obama's a scumbag. And then he had this kind of failed run for the Senate in Maryland, and I thought that was the last we would hear of him. And then I said, oh, you got to talk radio show. And he filled the Rush Limbaugh time slot for a lot of people, and now he's going to be the FBI Deputy Deputy director. And as you said, I mean, this is traditionally sort of a. A grizzled old hand, sort of someone who, in a way, sort of represents the line agents. And instead, we are getting a guy who's never been in the FBI and. And obviously is most recently a podcaster.
- [44:36]
Tim Miller
I'm curious. The Bongino show never hit for me. All right? I'm. I'm. I'm an amateur in your space. Like, you're monitoring all this stuff, you know, for profession. I. I do it, you know, kind of as a side. As a side hustle, because I'm a sick. But I get the Bannon appeal. I get the Candace appeal. I find Ben Shapiro totally revolting. But I understand it. I understand what people like about it. I don't get the Bungino thing. Why did his little talk radio show thing succeed? This person. When I listen to a show, I wonder if this person is literate, if he can read. Is it just a show for really dumb people? Is there something that he does very well that I miss? A podcast guess? Or is there something I could learn from him?
- [45:22]
Matt
You could pick up a couple tips. I mean, you're right. I Mean, there is, you know, for, for those of us who, who consume this content but don't share their politics. I think we can tell when there's a, you know, someone who is a gifted broadcaster is entertaining or, or you kind of figure out what niche they're fitting into.
- [45:36]
Tim Miller
Sure.
- [45:37]
Matt
Versus Dan Bongino. That's why I was surprised when a lot of stations picked him up to replace Limbaugh because I thought Limbaugh was, was a fun guy to listen to. Whereas, I mean, Dan Bongino is kind of, there's kind of like a classic like replacement level talker type who's just like a mad guy, kind of like Mark Levin. And you listen to these guys and it's like this guy's just mad about it, you know, and like Kennedy too, where, you know, he's just giving you the talking points. There's not like a lightness to it. But I agree, I, I'm not a huge listener.
- [46:04]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Okay. So the madness you think is what, is what his hook is that he just gets mad and people want somebody that's mad.
- [46:12]
Matt
It's sort of a community of obviously the sort of the maga you universe. It's a world that's not short on people who are mad. And so I think it's kind of funny when, when someone stands out for being mad. I mean, he, he sent like my colleague at the Post an email that was, you know, oh, you dipshit. All this stuff. So, you know, there are certain guys who are just like, I'm mad.
- [46:31]
Tim Miller
He's the hottest of the hotheads. Hi, I'm Matt.
- [46:35]
Matt
And I'm Leah and we're from the Grown Up Stuff podcast. And just in time for tax season, on this week's episode, we're chatting with CPA Lisa Green Lewis about how small businesses can tackle their taxes using TurboTax Business. A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes. And 17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any expense as a business expense. So can't blame them. It's really important to do your taxes right. Listen to Grown up stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcast.
- [47:13]
Tim Miller
I need to take a pause from around Trumpistan because we do have some breaking FBI news per Bill Mitchell. It's just been sent to me. Bill Mitchell is another figure on the online. Right. And so we'll see whether this ends up being fake news or real news. But it is important that we, I Feel like we gotta find like the old Men in Black music or something. I need, like, we need a segment for the Will Summer segment about, or just maybe an audio clip of Tommy Lee Jones talking about how this is where he gets the real news. I'll work on that. Me and Jason will work on that. In the meantime, Bill Mitchell. Breaking FBI news. FBI Director Cash Patel has requested a direct line from his home and office to Trump's Oval Office, bypassing ag. Pam Bondi. This goes to exactly what we were just talking about. I mean, who knows if this is true or not, but I think it's pretty telling about what they're doing here.
- [48:07]
Matt
I mean, it kind of seems like Cash is gonna be the next Attorney General.
- [48:10]
Tim Miller
Right, and he already runs the atf.
- [48:12]
Matt
Yeah, right. I think it makes a little more sense because, you know, initially it was like, wow, it's a real reach for Cash to be the FBI Director. But now you say, well, he's already been the FBI director, you know, how far is Attorney General. So I do think Pam Bondi, I think you can tell that she's not as adept in this world of right wing influencers. Like she should be the one leaking to Bill Mitchell. All these people are from Florida. And so there was this claim that after the binders thing happened, just briefly, that, that basically she gave them these binders to butter them up because she knows she has this deficit it with these kind of fame ball types. And you know what? She's right because they threw her under the bus immediately.
- [48:47]
Tim Miller
Do you know anything about the Cash, like living with the timeshare guy in Las Vegas? Have you read this story?
- [48:53]
Matt
I have read it. I don't know a ton about it, but it is sort of another. It's just like another really weird thing.
- [48:58]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it's very strange. It's something I've got my eye on. Cash wants to live in Vegas while he's running two very large, complicated bureaucracies. He wants to live in Vegas part time and I guess have a direct line from Bill Mitchell. Says his home, but reportedly based on the Nevada independent, it's not actually his home. He lives in some rich timeshare scammer's house. I asked David from about this last week and he's like, he's like, I hope that it's sexual in nature because if it's not, because if it's not something really bad, it's happening. That's a good take. All right, back to around the world of Trumpistan. I don't know if I've mentioned him since he got this job. This is how fucking ludicrous this administration is. The counter terrorism chief for the United States of America is Sebastian Gorka. Tell us about Sebastian Gorka.
- [49:50]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, Gorka, as you said, at this point, it's like, oh, thank gosh, thank gosh. The adults are in the room, right? You know, Gorka's here. That's how I felt when, you know, amid everything else, I mean, Gorka. Gorka is another. It's good to do him after Bongino, because Gorka is like another, like classic mad guy, but in kind of like a more. A more gentlemanly way, an old world sensibility. You know, Obviously we know he has in the last administration. There are all these questions about his ties to kind of like neo quasi Nazi European groups and did he get a medal from one of them or what have you. But these days, you know, he. He too was in talk radio. I mean, it's. It's a sign, I think, you know, we're talking about the second administration versus the first Trump administration of how things have changed that in the past, you know, five years or so. I think Gorka has kind of presented himself as like, somewhat of a voice of reason. I mean, he had this, like, really long running feud with QAnon people where he was like, you're not cases and this kind of stuff. I mean, so it's still, I would say, disturbing.
- [50:43]
Tim Miller
He's not a guy that is, I would call judicious, even keel. I mean, he lashed out at me one time in the hallway of cpac, started shouting me down. He's taller than you think.
- [50:56]
Matt
He's very tall guy.
- [50:57]
Tim Miller
Yeah. Not great breath. And I kind of forget. It's in the circus archive somewhere. I forget what he's calling me. Not a nice name. He's come after you too, I think.
- [51:07]
Matt
Yeah. I sent him a very nice email. I think maybe it was a story about his feud with QAnon. And I sent him an email. And then I was just. A few hours later, I was just sitting around and he called me and I'd never talked to him before. And he. He said, is this Will Summer? And I said, yeah. And he said, stick your head in a bucket full of eels. And I was just. I was so shocked that I had to have him. I said, can you say that again? Like, I need to get that quote down. And he said, stick it in a bucket full of eels. And I thought really nothing of it. I said, okay, well, that was a little weird. And then he played it on his show and he played it as sort of like kind of a crank yanker situation where he sort of said, I had a clever little call. So it's.
- [51:40]
Tim Miller
He's an unusual guy, the counterterrorism chief of America. And you like, Okay, I guess, I guess. Do you feel safe, listeners?
- [51:53]
Matt
He's going to prank call Hamas.
- [51:54]
Tim Miller
All right.
- [51:57]
Matt
Hi, I'm Matt. And I'm Leah. And we're from the Grown Up Stuff podcast. And just in time for tax season. On this week's episode, we're chatting with CPA Lisa Green Lewis about how small businesses can tackle their taxes using TurboTax Business. A Forbes study mentioned that a whopping 93% of small businesses overpay their taxes and 17% of Gen Zers believed that you could write off any expense as a business expense. So can't blame them. It's really important to do your taxes right. Listen to Grown up stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Grown Up Stuff.
- [52:41]
Tim Miller
I want to close by getting into the grifting world. I want to really close with the greatest grift that's going out there. But before we get to that, I just wonder if you have any thoughts going to open season on either the cryptographs and all the various crypto characters that are around. It's very different from Trump 1.0. Another thing, Bloomberg is an interesting story on this 1789 count capital, which Donald Trump Jr. Has gotten his hands in. And just like the madness of the fact that there's now this MAGA VC firm and like, in order to get in the good graces of the administration, like huge companies are now like raising funding rounds. And it's like we're gonna include Sequoia and we're gonna include BlackRock, and then we're gonna include Donald Trump Jr. And Blake Masters firm and give them a little taste. I don't think people have really just kind of appreciated how deep that grift is going. So I'm just wondering if you have thoughts on any of those characters or what's. What's happening there.
- [53:44]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, just, just jumping on the 1789 thing. I mean, it is fascinating that we just have these situations and where, you know, people with connections to the administration or with the ability to sway the president are just sort of really have their pockets. They're saying, hey, you know, come on through if you want to butter up to me, you know, donate to my VC fund. The Bloomberg article is interesting. Basically I guess the pitch is that this is kind of the anti esg. This is the anti, like, woke capital situation. But I think in practice, it's, as you said, it's interesting that, you know, they're having these. There are companies having these massive funding rounds. And then also Don Jr. Is coming. In terms of the crypto stuff, I. I follow, like, crypto world relatively closely. I think it's been interesting that in some ways it seems like the main, like, real, like real heavy bag holders, as they say, are getting frustrated that Trump seems to have been captured by what you might call shitcoins. Like when he announced the bitcoin reserve or the crypto reserve, and he said, look, we're gonna have bitcoin and we're gonna have Ada and Sol and Luna, I mean, or these various kind of minor coins that made people concerned. I think that he was just trying to pump the bags.
- [54:49]
Tim Miller
Don't you fucking downgrade Solana. Okay, all right. Don't you lump Solana in with all these other shit coins. All right? Like, this is serious business. That's a real coin there. It's a lot of value underneath there.
- [55:04]
Matt
Yeah. Are you holding on to that one?
- [55:07]
Tim Miller
No, I'm not holding on to any stuff. All the crypto listeners get so mad at me. You are correct that there are some serious crypto people that are expressing annoyance with Trump because it is obviously bitcoin is down, Eth is down. And at some level. Level I think they rightly see undermining the credibility of their product. And I think that there is clearly some difference between what bitcoin and what ether trying to do and what some of these other total scams are. That said, they're not that mad. I mean, if it keeps going down, they're going to be mad. There have been a lot of people who've been making money off of this and getting in on it, and there doesn't seem to be. Honestly, honestly, if I were a big bitcoin advocate or a CEO of Coinbase, I would be in a panic over this. I would be out there trying to do anything I could to protect myself from the shrapnel of this just naked grift that the President of the United States is running with his coins. And you're not really seeing that.
- [56:16]
Matt
Yeah, no, I agree. They obviously realize I think this administration is friendlier to crypto than any Democrat would be.
- [56:23]
Tim Miller
They all got fucking rich beyond anyone's wildest dreams during the Biden years. So I understand that Gary Gensler is like, whatever the Greatest, the greatest devil that history has ever known to the crypto world. But, you know, all of those guys are going to vacation in Tulum thanks to the money that they made during the Biden years. But anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt.
- [56:42]
Matt
I just think it's interesting that like this, this frustration they're having that basically it's like they were kind of playing like three card Monty or something. And then Trump came and set up a way bigger table to do his own three card monty, but he's doing it a lot clumsy. So people are like, wait a minute, I, I can see this is a con. You know, they're like, hey, cut it out, Trump.
- [56:59]
Tim Miller
The 1789 capital thing. I'm looking forward to future. Will Summer reporting on this. It's astonishing that Don Jr. Is at these tables. Have you seen the meme of like the, with the dragons? And it's like the two angry looking dragons and the one dragon with like the eyes, tongue going sideways. Like the one dragon that looks like they're, they're the, they got hit on the stupid tree and they fell all the way down, down. Like that is what is happening in these investment rounds. It's like, it's like they're four serious investing companies at the table. And then there's Don Jr. And I don't know who knows if the guy that got, I guess he didn't get fired from the administration, but one of the castoffs from Doge are sitting there getting paid. The greatest gift of all, though, the ties to, you know, you said your youth as a religious, religious man. Everybody who believes in God and believes that we should follow the righteous path, they should feel comfort knowing that the leader of the White House Faith Office, the leader of the White House Faith Office, Paula White, offered this video to her supporters this week.
- [58:05]
Matt
So what are you going to do? You see, I have to be obedient to God. And you must sacrifice in some way during this prophetic season. Because it's through sacrifice that your spirit opens up so wide that you can receive divine direction. Direction. This is a deliverance seed that needs to be sown now to be in position to see increase, to activate God's promises. And if you're able, I challenge you to sow $133. Because we sow in accordance to the word. I love to get a word from God and put my faith with it. And 133 stands for Proverbs 133.
- [58:49]
Tim Miller
Proverbs 133. You just give me 133 bucks and man, this moment of divine prophecy in Trump's golden age will shine on you. Will Sommer.
- [59:01]
Matt
I was just about to say, where is she getting the 133? But it makes sense now.
- [59:05]
Tim Miller
Proverbs. I feel like that's a little cheap. I feel like she could have maybe, maybe punched it up a little bit. The Paula White. Where did this lady come from?
- [59:14]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, she's been around the administration for a while. I think the previous administration. I mean, she's kind of like a. Just a sort of one of these charismatic ministers. I looked her up. She every, every couple years she gets like a big viral, you know, viral clip where like she was saying, you know, she's trying to get Trump reelected. And then she just said, and strike and strike and strike for like about a minute. But I guess it worked.
- [59:33]
Tim Miller
All right, we'll end it there. I am. I'm super looking forward to all the reporting on these weirdos and characters that you're going to do to educate us. You'll be kind of like a layer of the. Of the tabloid news, right? Kind of translating the tabloid news for all the rest of us. I really appreciate it, Will.
- [59:52]
Matt
Thanks for having me.
- [59:53]
Tim Miller
One more thing before I leave. I just wanted to shout out Kevin Drum. He's a longtime blogger, a longtime liberal blogger that died this week. I've gotten to work with him a little bit. We'd sparred a couple times when he wrote something when I was a flack at the rnc. Then we sparred again when I was a writer for the Bulwark and we disagreed. Read about a culture war column that he had written. But he's always fair minded, always serious. I'd recommend going out and checking out his archives if you weren't familiar with him. Wanted to honor Kevin Drum a little bit. But there's a story that my friend Ben Dreyfuss wrote about him that I wanted to share with you guys. Ben writes the calm down substack, which is advice that I don't take from him. But his substack is usually quite amusing, if nothing else, and insightful. And he wrote about Kevin that they had worked together at Mother Jones at the height of kind of the awokening in the cancel culture world on the left. And Kevin was more of an old school liberal and he had written a couple things that some of the younger progressive staff didn't like. And this came to a head when he wrote a blog post about the movie Parasite, of all things, and how he didn't really prefer subtitles and some people on the staff, some of the young progressive staff staff decided that was racist, I guess. And this thing snowballs and eventually results in Kevin leaving and going out on his own. All this happened. He had already been diagnosed with cancer at the time. The thing that Ben shares about Kevin is that at the time he was driving most of the traffic to the site. He said a 1.33%. Then it went up and up and up and was the second biggest driver for Mother Jones of revenue to the site. But every time they tried to give him a raise, he wouldn't take it. He said he didn't need it and he wanted to put that money back into the fellowship at Mother Jones. He wanted to support the mission. He wanted to support the salaries of the very people that ran him out on a rail. And he didn't say anything about that. He didn't tell anybody. He went out on his own and continued writing, continued to be true to himself. And I thought it was a lovely story. It is a model that all of us should try to live up to about being true to oneself, about not being bullied, about trying to support a cause that is greater than yourself, even if you don't agree with every single person that is associated with the cause. And man, he's a good. He was a great writer. He influenced a lot of writers that I like and he'll be missed. So rest easy. Kevin Drum. Thanks to Ben Dreyfuss for sharing that story and everybody else. We'll be back here tomorrow for another edition of the Bloor podcast. We'll see you all then. Peace.
- [62:59]
Matt
You go and try to hold your head up high on the p illusions. You lost your passport in a dolphin when you went to your location and now there is no vacation for you back home. Sh.
- [64:46]
Tim Miller
Sa the Bulwark Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.