The Bulwark Podcast
Episode: Wright Thompson: The Ghosts of Mississippi
Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Wright Thompson, ESPN senior writer, author of The Barn
Episode Overview
This episode is a conversation between host Tim Miller and acclaimed sportswriter and author Wright Thompson, focused on Thompson’s new book, The Barn: The Secret History of a Murder in Mississippi. The discussion delves into the cultural, political, and historical legacy of the Emmett Till murder, the region’s stubborn silences about its past, and how these echoes inform today’s American political life, particularly around race, history, and the persistence of political and state violence. The episode is rich in personal anecdotes, Mississippi history, musings on the present, and even some moments of cathartic humor.
News Roundup and Political Hot Takes
(01:00 - 14:11)
Venezuela, Trump, and Nobel Medals
- Maria Karina Machado delivered her Nobel Peace Prize medal to Donald Trump at the White House—Miller is cynical about the gesture’s impact and Trump’s indifference to the cause of Venezuelan freedom.
- Quote (03:04): “Donald Trump likes trophies, but things are already moving down the tracks as far as him garnishing, confiscating, stealing the oil from Venezuela ... So Donald Trump doesn’t really seem to care a lot about freedom.” – Tim Miller
- Critique of the event's "janky" medal framing, and Nobel committee’s statement that only the medal, not the laureate title, can be transferred.
Trump Administration—Immigration and Political Theater
- Internal Trump polling reportedly shows his administration’s immigration tactics are increasingly unpopular—even among his own team.
- Discussion on the optics and political calculation within the White House, referencing past dynamics with “Jivanka” (Jared & Ivanka) trying to mitigate bad visuals without actual policy change.
- Miller’s encouragement to Democrats: fight hard on this ground, as public sentiment is shifting.
- Quote (11:58): “The only thing that has saved us from even a worse catastrophe ... is that Trump, you know, he is a TV person ... He doesn’t like the bad images. He never really has.”
Dark Humor and Authoritarian Clown Car Award
- Miller proposes a regular segment highlighting the most clownish attempts at authoritarianism.
- Notable example: DHS spokesperson Trisha McLaughlin’s meltdown about protesters pouring cold water on the ground in Minnesota to make ICE agents slip, exaggerated as “a federal crime”.
- Quote (13:23): “That is a federal crime in Minnesota … the party of freedom wants to tell the citizens this week that if they pour cold water on the ground around an ICE agent, they might get bullied, all right?”
- Suggestion that the administration needs a scapegoat for its own unpreparedness—encourages peaceful protest mixed with local humor.
Wright Thompson: Mississippi Roots, Family, and Politics
(14:11 – 16:15)
Introduction
- Thompson explains his background: from Clarksdale, Mississippi, from a family of farmers; his father was a professional political fundraiser for liberal Democrats in the Deep South.
- Quote (15:11): “His trick ... he looked great in a seersucker suit, but was very, very liberal ... raising money for liberal Democrats in the Deep South.”
Early Political Experience
- Recounting being the only one in class not to vote for Reagan in a mock election. Asks his father why he never voted for the winner.
- Quote (15:25): “I was the only person in my class who didn’t vote for Ronald Reagan ... [Dad] was like, ‘I just hate bullies. I grew up around this stuff.’”
Ghosts of Mississippi: The Story of Ole Miss and Emmett Till
(16:15 – 21:23)
The Riot and the Football Team (1962)
- Explains the context of James Meredith’s enrollment at Ole Miss, Governor Ross Barnett’s role, Kennedy administration’s involvement, and the violence that ensued.
- Quote (16:52): “It’s called a riot in the way that all racial violence in the south is now referred to as a riot. It’s just a code for strong people killing defenseless people ... We need a new word for it.” – Wright Thompson
- Details how political stunts (Governor Barnett’s halftime speech at a football game) led him to renege on integration promises.
Complexity of Good and Evil in History
- The myth of “outside agitators” and the reality that many who resisted desegregation are still alive.
- Reflects on how “politics self-selects for the worst of us,” and that even former civil rights lawyers like Barnett can change for political expediency.
- Quote (18:30): “Politics self-select for the worst of us ... Ross Barnett didn’t have any principles.”
On Moral Purity
- Discusses the dangers of expecting purity in the telling of historical narratives.
- Quote (20:25): “You want everybody to be pure and nobody is pure. We all have all of this in us ... Everybody has sinners in them, and everybody is trying for their better angels to win.” – Wright Thompson
The Barn—A Local History with National Resonance
(24:10 – 28:12)
Land, Memory, and the Economic Roots of Injustice
- How the Land Ordinance Act of 1785, the cotton economy, and Mississippi’s credit default in 1837 shaped Mississippi’s economic and social future, ultimately affecting generations.
- Quote (25:54): “Mississippi has never really been governed for the benefit of Mississippians ... The state existed for a commodity that no longer really exists like it did.”
- Draws parallels between cotton as “oil” for Mississippi and the lasting effects of economic decline.
Emmett Till’s Story and Ongoing Erasure
- Thompson did not know about Emmett Till until after graduating high school, emphasizing intentional historical silences.
- Quote (28:12): “I’d never heard the name [Emmett] Till ... and that’s as embarrassing as that is to say. It’s just the truth.”
- Tells of visiting the barn and realizing the everyday banality covering up historical horror.
The Burden and Denial of Southern History
(28:55 – 35:56)
The Silence Surrounding Emmett Till
- Addresses shame, personal responsibility, and why so many resist teaching or confronting this history.
- Quote (29:13): “I don’t understand ... how hearing this history has hurt me in any way. … I’m not being persecuted. My life is in no way negatively affected by standing up and saying, ‘this is the truth of what happened here.’”
- Links nostalgia to denial, even as local celebrities like Archie Manning grew up near the barn, largely unaware of the darkness so close by.
The Physical Reality of the Crime
- Explores the geographical and architectural context—how many could have literally heard Emmett Till’s cries, and the painstaking documentation by student architects to map out these “witness rings”.
- The story of Willie Reed (a.k.a. Willie Lewis), a witness who had to flee Mississippi for his own safety, living under a new name for decades.
The War on Teaching Black History
- Thompson challenges the manufactured distinction between “critical race theory” and “black history”.
- Quote (35:47): “It feels like there’s very much a war on black history going on, which is a war on American history. And I don’t really understand what the problem is with teaching about Emmett Till.”
On How History Gets Distorted—Then and Now
(35:56 – 45:56)
The Politics of Erasure
- Miller and Thompson discuss the false equivalence in right-wing discourse, co-opting legitimate critiques of overreach to silence all racial history.
- Only those already ashamed would feel personally attacked by history.
- Quote (36:47): “Only someone who already hates themselves could be convinced to hate themselves by just learning about some history. I love my family.”
Silence and Cowardice
- Reflects on the dangers of silence, with a moving story about Thompson’s mother, now a fearless Facebook commentator.
- Quote (38:27): “I was silent the last time this happened ... I just told myself that if it ever happened again, I was not going to be silent because silence is complicity. Silence is approval.” – Wright Thompson’s mother
Institutionalized Denial
- Provides real-time examples of how Emmett Till’s story is erased or distorted in contemporary Mississippi education.
- Quote (43:51): “This is what’s being taught. ... Emmett Till, a young black man from Chicago, allegedly made a pass ... Two men kidnapped him, beat him, killed him ... The coverage of the trial and acquittal ... painted a poor picture of Mississippi and its white citizens. Those are the right answers on the test today.”
- Public mourning of how history is selectively presented and, thereby, manipulated.
Mississippi Nostalgia, Memory, and Humor
(46:08 – 47:47)
- The contradiction of loving southern stories while refusing to acknowledge darker ones.
- Personal anecdotes—telling bedtime stories to his daughter, wrestling with their fairy-tale nature versus brutal historical fact.
Echoes in Today’s America: Political Violence and Its Legacies
(51:47 – 57:09)
From Emmett Till to January 6th
-
Draws direct lines between 1950s Mississippi violence and today’s era—how political rhetoric enables violence, then gets quickly erased or sanitized by those in power.
- Quote (54:23): “Once unleashed, political violence cannot be controlled. And it has a very, very, very long tail. And so the scary thing is that what’s being unleashed now ... something terrible has been unleashed.” – Wright Thompson
-
Reflection on the performative, “cosplay” nature of today’s would-be authoritarians versus the real, organized brutality of the past.
- Quote (55:51): “It’s just a bunch of fobbits who got a 5.11 tactical gift card and ... it’s just cosplay. ... if you want to be in the army, you can go join the army.”
The “Heritage American” Movement
- Miller asks for Thompson’s reaction to a new right concept: “heritage Americans” (the notion that those here longer deserve more rights).
- Thompson: “That’s absurd … the idea that I should have more rights than Marco Rubio is insane.”
- Notes the persistent allure of tribalism and the dangers of inventing new, exclusionary identities when broader civic bonds are frayed.
The Present: Tariffs, Economics, and Mississippi Life
(60:18 – 63:46)
Tariffs Hurting Farmers and Mardi Gras
- Discussion about Trump’s tariffs: devastating for both Mississippi farmers (unsellable rice and soybeans) and local traditions like Mardi Gras (costume/throw shortages).
- Quote (61:18): “The tariffs are incredibly bad for farmers. ... We have lots of rice right now sitting in storage that we can’t sell at any price.”
- Brazilian and Chinese competition drives U.S. markets down; the effects will be long-lasting.
- Quote (62:55): “People are going to lose their family farms ... the American farmer is in existential trouble. And anybody who tells you anything other than that is lying.”
Lighthearted Segment: SEC College Towns & Jam Bands
(63:50 – End)
SEC College Town Power Rankings
-
On a football Saturday:
- Baton Rouge (“Saturday night at Death Valley ... absolutely the best.”)
- Oxford
- Tuscaloosa
- Athens (favorite town, especially for music)
- Starkville (“Probably” the least favorite), Columbia “okay”, Auburn “pretty bad” (citing impacts of real estate investment trusts).
-
Favorite Oxford meal: Handy Andy cheeseburger or City Grocery muffaletta (“one of the great bars in America”).
On the Passing of Bob Weir
- Reminisces about time with Grateful Dead musicians, the meaning of musical community, and the sting of mortality.
- Quote (66:43): “They kept faith with each other in a really beautiful way ... That was really moving. And I remember so clearly when Jerry Garcia died, because it felt like the end of youth. And I think Bob’s death is symbolic too, just in a very different way.”
Memorable Quotes and Moments – Quick Reference
| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------|-------| | 16:52 | Wright Thompson | “It’s called a riot ... just a code for strong people killing defenseless people. ... We need a new word for it.” | | 20:25 | Wright Thompson | “You want everybody to be pure and nobody is pure. We all have all of this in us.” | | 29:13 | Wright Thompson | “I don’t understand ... how hearing this history has hurt me in any way.” | | 35:47 | Wright Thompson | “It feels like there’s very much a war on black history going on, which is a war on American history.” | | 38:27 | Wright’s Mother | “I was silent the last time this happened ... If it ever happened again, I was not going to be silent because silence is complicity. Silence is approval.” | | 43:51 | Wright Thompson | “This is what’s being taught ... Emmett Till, a young black man ... [trial] painted a poor picture of Mississippi ... Those are the right answers on the test today.” | | 54:23 | Wright Thompson | “Once unleashed, political violence cannot be controlled. ... Something terrible has been unleashed.” | | 61:18 | Wright Thompson | “The tariffs are incredibly bad for farmers. ... the American farmer is in existential trouble.” |
Final Thoughts
Wright Thompson’s conversation explores how the past is never truly past, especially in Mississippi, and how political violence, economic decline, and strategic silences about race and history continue to haunt America. The episode is candid, funny, and at times deeply moving—especially in Wright’s stories of personal and communal reckoning. The segment on college towns, his mother’s Facebook bravery, and musical nostalgia infuse the heavy subject matter with moments of levity and warmth.
For listeners looking to understand the current American moment through the particular, haunted landscape of the Mississippi Delta, and to be reminded of the very real connections between past and present, this is an essential conversation.