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- [00:07]
A
Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show host of the podcast Runaway country from Crooked Media. She also writes the substack how the Hell with Alex Wagner. It's my buddy, Alex Wagner.
- [00:20]
B
Hi, friend. It's great to see you.
- [00:22]
A
What's up? It's good to see you, too. You're fresh. You're off of vacation. I read on your sub stack. Yeah, I'm dragging. I'm heading into vacation.
- [00:30]
B
The drag hits fast even after you get back from vacation.
- [00:34]
A
Vacation is on the horizon for me. And, you know, the Graham Platner agonistas this week has been the thing that's about ready to send me over the edge, so understandably looking for you to carry me today. Let's start with Platner. There's a ton of news. Trump is just, I mean, doing insanity right now in Europe.
- [00:56]
B
Even more so than usual, I guess. It's more public. It's like when your crazy old uncle starts running around naked outside, you're like, ooh, this is another level of embarrassing.
- [01:06]
A
That's what's happening. So we're going to get to that towards the end in case he literally does get naked. Please don't want to miss that.
- [01:13]
B
We have no dignity left as a country. That would be the end of it.
- [01:16]
A
So we'll do politics first. The latest in the Platner story is that he hasn't dropped yet. Literally everyone has called for him to drop out, including Bernie Sanders and Zoran and other people kind of from his wings of the Democratic Party. Even his consultants are kind of starting to do the thing this morning that was like, this was enough.
- [01:39]
B
I didn't talk to the New York Post.
- [01:40]
A
Who are the guys that did this? You know, all we did was, yeah, so everybody's trying to get out of it. And, you know, by the time this publishes, who knows, maybe things will change. I think there's some worries that Platner tries to gut this out and, you know, kind of does a Democratic. Roy Moore. I hope that is not the case. What we do know is that they are, at minimum, putting the main Democratic Party in a really tough spot. And he's got till 5 this coming Monday at 5pm to drop out if he chooses to do so. He's been trying to. Well, let's actually just listen. This is the executive director of the main Democratic Party, and let me tell you, she deserves hazard pay for what she's dealing with right now. And she put out this video yesterday, kind of summarizing the state of affairs.
- [02:26]
C
Hi, everyone. I wanted to provide you all an update on the US Senate race here in Maine. As you know, the Maine Democratic Party has been working around the clock to develop a process to replace our U.S. senate nominee that is open, inclusive, transparent, and fair. The integrity of this process is just as important as the outcome, and we are committed to ensuring that Democrats across our state can have confidence in both. Unfortunately, Graham Platner's team has repeatedly reached out to us in an attempt to put their thumb on the scale of what this process looks like. We have also reiterated that Graham Platner must drop out of this race so that Democrats in Maine can focus on defeating Susan Collins this November.
- [03:09]
A
That's Devin Murphy. Anderson. Shout out to her.
- [03:12]
B
Much respect. Much respect.
- [03:14]
A
What do you make of all that?
- [03:15]
B
I mean, first of all, I've been using the word hubris. I've been using the word ego. These words are insufficient for the level of self involvement, selfishness, betrayal that we see from Graham. Like, it was. It was all. It would have been bad enough that he lied about the Nazi tattoo. It would have been bad enough that there was the infidelity, that he kept lying to his supporters and the public about the next shoe to drop. The rape allegations, which you've talked about at length and I'm sure we'll continue to talk about, are entirely credible. It's the end of his campaign. The idea that he has any currency left to try and manipulate the process by which his replacement is chosen is, I think, the apex of, like, toxic masculinity. Who the fuck does he think he is? He does. First of all, can I just say, anything endorsed by Graham Platner is therefore tarnished by Graham Platner. Like, why does he think it would be a good thing for anybody?
- [04:13]
A
He can endorse somebody if he wants. It's a free country.
- [04:15]
C
Fine.
- [04:15]
B
But like any. Any process that he's a part of is automatically. I mean, I just. He doesn't seem to clock that. He doesn't. The longer this goes on, his. His currency is already devalued considerably. But the longer this goes on, the more and more devalued it becomes. And the more and more everybody wants to get the hell away from him. I just. I truly don't understand. I. I would hope that today is the day that he exits the race. Time is of the essence. Everybody has 2024 PTSD. Like, this needs to end so that, as Dev. Dev says, it can be an open, transparent, inclusive and fair process. And that there isn't sort of mutiny, insurrection and bad vibes heading into a critical Senate race.
- [05:01]
A
Yeah, and this is the thing that's I don't really get. It's like the charge here, as you mentioned, is rape. So like I said this two days ago. It's like one of the options on the table is not. I'm going to sit around and kind of see how things play out and try to manipulate things from behind the scenes like a manipulator. Like, the options are, I didn't do the rape and I'm going to do everything possible to defend my honor and focus on defeating Susan Collins. And I think a lot of people would be deeply skeptical of that. But, like, that's one option on the table if, like, you didn't do it, but like, if you did it or you did something close enough to it, you know that it's like, what. Get the out and stop telling people what to do. Like, those are, like, those are. This is not, you know, this is not. We have PTSD about Biden. I do want to talk about kind of lessons from that. Like, this is not that, like, the Biden thing was like, this was a judgment call. Are you too old to be president? It's like he was fooling himself a little bit into thinking he could still be president his age. But like, you know, I was like apoplectic. Top critic of that. But you can at least understand this is not that. Like, this is, you need to leave the race because you have credible accusations of rape.
- [06:20]
B
I think his behavior after in the wake of these allegations almost serves to support the allegations because only someone who is completely delusional and a liar would continue. If this is true and he hasn't offered any evidence to it not being true. He hasn't denied that he was sent an Instagram message by Jenny Rascoe that said that sex was non consensual. Never contact me again. He's never. He hasn't denied that he is clearly aware that something happened that night in 2021 because she made a point of talking, trying to communicate with him about it. And the only someone who knew this was in his rear view mirror would go out there and say in the wake of the first batch of allegations, there's nothing else to see here, folks. Like, you have to be kind of unhinged to know that you have these skeletons in your closet which are very likely to come out and full steam ahead with the campaign. Go on Ms. Now and say, you know, you've seen like effectively all there There is to see here. We're good knowing that this was on the horizon.
- [07:23]
A
And by the way, when he went on MSD with our friend Chris Hayes, and I was on after that, right after, it was like, Chris was really good in questioning him about this. And. And it was like, he was obviously lying about. Forget, you know, this stuff hadn't come out yet. He's obviously lying about the Nazi tattoo.
- [07:37]
B
Then, yeah, that's what I came on
- [07:39]
A
here and said the next day. He's like, I'm watching this. I'm like, you're lying.
- [07:42]
B
He's obviously lying about that, dude. Nice. Nice work. But also, I don't believe him.
- [07:48]
A
Right? Like, it was just obvious at the time that he's lying about that. And to me, it was like, okay, you know, like, the thing I kept saying on this and maybe this is time to kind of revisit, like, things that were missed is as, you know, it's like, he's not a Nazi. And I still don't think he's a Nazi. I think the story of the Nazi tattoo is he got a fucking tattoo to be a tough, badass guy. And then, like, event at some point, point, realized that it was a toten comp. And then started making jokes about it. And like, you can. Everyone can make the judgment for themselves on how bad that is, but, like, that's what happened. But instead of saying that and covering it up, he was like, I didn't know about this until whatever some reporter told me three months ago. And it's like, no, that's not true. Like, that's just not true. And. And, like, that was obvious for a while. And I do think there needs to be some reflection from people on the Democratic side about, like, why, you know, these red flags weren't addressed. And there were certainly people, some here at the Bulwark, some elsewhere, not me, who were like, these red flags are too red and we shouldn't, you know, there should be, you know, no accepting this and, like, shout out to them. But, like, what. What is your take on, like, what the.
- [09:01]
B
Well, I will just say, and I don't want to be a scold here, but I mean, I work with some wonderful men at media, and we were kind, always not at loggerheads, but there was always a kind of a frisson of not tension, but, like, disagreement at the beginning of all this when the scandals first started coming to the fore. Because I just remember saying, like, are we sure, guys? Like, are we sure that this is like this? And you've pointed this out this is one of the most crucial Senate races in the country. Like, are we sure people are ready to bet the farm on someone who clearly hasn't been vetted and, like, obviously has a lot of complications in his past? Like,