No Matter How Hard He Tries, JD Vance Will Never Be Cool

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bulwark

Episode: "No Matter How Hard He Tries, JD Vance Will Never Be Cool"

Date: May 24, 2026
Host: The Bulwark (Sarah Longwell)
Guests: Jon Favreau, Van Jones, Sam Stein, Ken Martin

Episode Overview

This episode blends sharp political analysis, inside baseball, and characteristic Bulwark humor. The panel, joined by Jon Favreau, Van Jones, and Sam Stein, dissects the “autopsy” of the 2024 Democratic campaign, trade war stories from behind the scenes, and then turns to a riotous round of “Never Trump Trivia.” The tone is irreverent, self-aware, and deeply steeped in political culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The 2024 Democratic Postmortem: Handling the “Autopsy”

• The group immediately references a derided, controversial “autopsy” of the 2024 Democratic campaign, with Jon Favreau blamed (jokingly) for the pain it caused.
• Accountability & Missteps:
  • Jon Favreau points out the main issue wasn’t the autopsy itself but the dishonesty around its release:

    “...if he had just come out when the friend that he put in charge of this fucked the whole thing up and didn't produce an actual product and either said, you know what? My mistake. ... But... he just decided to like, lie and then lie again and then keep lying until he got himself into this.” —Jon Favreau (00:46)

  • Van Jones highlights the scapegoating of Kamala Harris:

    “...he put a lot of the blame on Vice President Kamala Harris because you know, it's her fault for trying to run an entire campaign in 110 days.” —Van Jones (01:32)

  • The DNC’s financial woes are also noted:

    “...the DNC has negative $3 million on hand, so.” —Jon Favreau (02:26)

• Democrats & Independent Media:
  • Ken Martin stresses how Democrats underused independent media, focusing too much on MSNBC’s limited reach:

    “...going on MSNBC over and over and over again to talk to the same 400,000 people was not gonna do it. And now they get it, and so that's good. That's at least a step in the right direction.” —Ken Martin (05:50)

  • Sam Stein observes, “...you couldn’t learn in the autopsy about what Democrats do wrong that you couldn’t learn from watching how Democrats handled trying to release or not release the autopsy.” (06:28)
• Dark Humor & Insider Jokes:
  • Sarah’s arch summary:

    “The autopsy conclusion was actually the lessons we learned along the way. It was the friends we made along the way.” —Sarah Longwell (06:40)

  • Van Jones’ deadpan:

    “All it took was losing an election that ruined the lives of millions of people.” —Van Jones (06:12)

2. Behind the Scenes: Ken Martin, Text Fights, and Grinder Parties

• Jon Favreau reveals Ken Martin reached out at 4 AM over podcast criticism, which originated from a misunderstanding over a tweet:

  “I get texted at 4am from Ken Martin, pissed about this tweet that I didn't do.” —Jon Favreau (03:42)

• Their confrontation resumes at the infamous “Grinder party,” showcasing the petty grievances and ego-driven subplots that permeate political life:

  “I run into him at the Grinder party, as one does.” —Jon Favreau (04:14) “So that was how I left it. And then he came on the pod and that. And then that was.” —Jon Favreau (05:01)

3. The Never Trump Trivia Game (07:00–End)

Format and Atmosphere

• The trivia contest divides guests into teams, testing their knowledge of "Never Trump" lore and political scandals with playful antagonism.
• The tone is competitive yet jovial, with inside jokes about whiteboards, audience participation, and Sarah’s running score commentary.

Notable Questions & Moments

• Mitt Romney & Jim Comey Twitter Burners (07:37)
  • Jon Favreau: “Pierre Delicto and question mark.”
  • Sarah: “Pierre Delicto and Jay Come… It was actually Reinhold Niebuhr.” (08:15)
• Mitt Romney’s Dog Story (08:56)
  • Prompt recalls the infamous “dog on the car roof” anecdote.
  • Sarah: “It was actually a Chevrolet Caprice station wagon.”
• Michael Steele’s Nightclub Spend (09:42)
  • Sam: “Michael Steele. When Michael Steele was running the RNC, he ran up two grand in strip club fees.”
• Chris Christie’s M&Ms at March Madness (10:20)
  • Sarah: “He was eating M&Ms. He took one box and then dipped it into another.”
  • Sam: “He emptied one box of M&Ms into another box.”
• Mark Sanford, Arby’s, and the Appalachian Trail (12:06–13:39)
  • Sam: “This Never Trump candidate... did a stunt in front of Arby’s, asking where’s the beef? Despite that being a Wendy’s slogan.”
  • Sarah: “Could you share with us Mark Sanford... inside his mistress in Argentina?”
  • Sam: “Not Olivia. It was Maria, actually.”
• Joe Scarborough’s 9/11 Song Title (14:06)
  • Sarah: “It’s called Reason to Believe.”
• Nikki Haley’s Son and White Nationalism Joke (14:30)
  • The panel riffs off rumors and jokes about MAGA personality, diversity in white nationalism, and the absurdity of political rumor mills.

4. Tone and Political/Cultural Commentary

• Throughout, the panel’s banter reflects both exhaustion and gallows humor regarding Democratic losses, intra-party dysfunction, and the culture of the so-called Never Trump movement.
• Notable is their self-deprecation and refusal to take themselves too seriously:

  “I know everything terrible. I'm so sorry.” —Sam Stein (11:57)
  “It's a real testament to America how diverse our White nationalists are.” —Sam Stein (15:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Democratic dysfunction:

  “It wouldn't have been that bad if he didn't just fucking lie over and over and over again.” —Jon Favreau (00:46)

• On scapegoating:

  “he put a lot of the blame on Vice President Kamala Harris because you know, it's her fault for trying to run an entire campaign in 110 days.” —Van Jones (01:32)

• On learning nothing from the autopsy:

  “The autopsy conclusion was actually the lessons we learned along the way. It was the friends we made along the way.” —Sarah Longwell (06:40)

• On political misadventures:

  “I run into him at the Grinder party, as one does.” —Jon Favreau (04:14)

• On trivia expertise:

  “I know everything terrible. I'm so sorry.” —Sam Stein (11:57)

• On MAGA diversity:

  “It's a real testament to America how diverse our White nationalists are.” —Sam Stein (15:13)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:46 — Jon Favreau on Democratic autopsy failures
• 01:32 — Van Jones on Kamala Harris scapegoating
• 02:26 — DNC's financial state
• 05:50 — Ken Martin’s critique on Democratic media outreach
• 06:40 — Sarah’s “lessons learned” quip
• 07:06–15:26 — “Never Trump Trivia” game launches and continues
• 08:56 — Mitt Romney's dog on a car roof story
• 09:42 — Michael Steele's nightclub strip club spend
• 10:20 — Chris Christie’s meme-worthy M&Ms incident
• 12:06–13:39 — Mark Sanford’s campaign stunts and Appalachian Trail scandal
• 14:06 — Joe Scarborough’s 9/11 song

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Summary Table

| Segment | Main Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------|------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | DNC Autopsy | Democratic failures, dishonesty, Kamala Harris scapegoat | 00:46-02:26| | Party Drama | Ken Martin, Grinder party, Favreau text exchange | 03:26-05:01| | Democratic Media | Need for independent outreach (Ken Martin critique) | 05:50 | | Trivia Section | Political scandal & “Never Trump” lore trivia | 07:06-15:26|

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Overall Episode Takeaways

• Democratic postmortem drama: Panelists dish on the chaotic, defensive way the Democratic Party handled its electoral defeat and learning process.
• In-group ribbing and war stories: The show is thick with irreverence, inside jokes, and real exasperation with party politics.
• The saga of Never Trumpers: The trivia contest lampoons political scandals and personalities central to Trump-era Republican dissenters, making for sharp, comedic commentary on recent political history.
• Political culture, unfiltered: The episode showcases the Bulwark’s blend of serious critique and comedic catharsis—a useful recap for listeners wanting both information and entertainment without the full runtime.

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For listeners:
This episode is a perfect blend of illuminating political analysis and cathartic group therapy for the democracy-minded, brimming with war stories, inside jokes, and a relentless, self-aware humor about the state of American politics.

Transcript

[Sarah]

Before I get to the game, Jon Favreau's here. Do you guys know him? Hey, guys. It's Jon Favreau's fault that we had to read the worst autopsy that's ever been.

[Jon Favreau]

You're welcome. You're welcome.

[Sarah]

Ever. I got it. It's all Jon Favreau's fault.

[Jon Favreau]

This is what I wanted.

[Sarah]

Before we get to the game, I just want everybody's opinion on the work that you've done. Jon, were you happy with the results?

[Jon Favreau]

Did you like the conclusion? Conclusion, where it says not provided by author is not there. Let's say hi to.

[Ken Martin]

I think we have Ken right there.

[Sarah]

So what you think, Jon? What's your big takeaway? I mean, is the party ready to move forward now? United.

[Jon Favreau]

The guy stepped on so many rakes to like. It wouldn't have been that bad if he didn't just fucking lie over and over and over again. Right? Like that is the. Because it's like, it's the autopsy. Whatever. It would have been nice to learn more from an actual well done autopsy. But if he had just come out when the friend that he put in charge of this fucked the whole thing up and didn't produce an actual product and either said, you know what? My mistake. We screwed this up. We're going to try to do it again. It's going to be delayed. Or you know what? It's now it's too late. It's close to the midterms. We screwed it up and that's it. Like, he would have gotten some shit for it, but it wouldn't have been the same as this. Instead, he realized that it fucked up and then he just decided to like, lie and then lie again and then keep lying until he got himself into this.

[Van Jones]

Well, John, he also did something very important, which is that he put a lot of the blame on Vice President Kamala Harris because you know, it's her fault for trying to run an Entire campaign in 110 days.

[Jon Favreau]

It was 107.

[Sarah]

Honestly, if it had only been 17 days, we probably would have won. That's the thing. That's why I don't really like that complaint that we didn't have enough days. I think we had two days.

[Van Jones]

I'm just saying, like, of the people

[Jon Favreau]

who it was the day after the dnc.

[Van Jones]

Of the people who I'm putting this autopsy on. It's not her. No, no, it's not. No, it's not her. It's guy who did podcast with you and came off looking real bad.

[Jon Favreau]

Who's that?

[Van Jones]

A man named Ken.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, Ken. Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, the other problem that we learned today, too, is that, like, the DNC has negative $3 million on hand, so.

[Van Jones]

But they email me so much liberal spending.

[Sam]

Can I just. This whole thing's gonna be a little bit about never Trumpers. And you know what? We're immigrants to your native land.

[Jon Favreau]

No, of course, of course.

[Van Jones]

And so now you got a lot of thoughts.

[Jon Favreau]

We got you are on the path to citizenship.

[Sam]

I'm not sure I'm getting citizenship, actually. But we do have opinions. And as a communications matter, there is something about him being like, no, we're not gonna release it. And then, like, we're gonna withhold it for a really long time while everybody gets mad at us. And then, like, we're not gonna do the thing. It's just like, when is Chuck Schumer coming to Ken Martin's Rehoboth beach house to say, hey, man, maybe you gotta step?

[Jon Favreau]

Like, I did not ambush this guy. We did not try to get him on the pod for this. He texted me because he was angry about a tweet that he thought was my tweet. That was actually Ben Rose's tweet, critical of him.

[Sam]

Well, all white guys look the same.

[Sarah]

Yeah, right?

[Jon Favreau]

And then he said, first of all, he was like, hey, stop criticizing. And I'm like, I didn't know the number. I didn't recognize the number. So I get texted at 4am From Ken Martin, pissed about this tweet that I didn't do.

[Sarah]

Sorry. And then he was like, his personal.

[Van Jones]

So at 4 o' clock in the

[Sarah]

morning, dude, can you give me his number?

[Sam]

I have thoughts.

[Jon Favreau]

And so then he was like. So he's like, and I should at least get a chance to come on the pod and tell my side of the story. And again, I'm like, what story? I don't know what you're talking about, because I wasn't aware of the criticism.

[Van Jones]

And.

[Ken Martin]

Who is this?

[Jon Favreau]

And. Right.

[Sarah]

Who is that?

[Jon Favreau]

Exactly. I kind of figured out. I looked, it was like, Minnesota area code. So I put it all together, and then. Then we go to D.C. and then I run into him at the Grinder party, as one does.

[Sarah]

It was a pretty good party.

[Jon Favreau]

Ken Martin waring to the Grinders, because we got there at 11 o' clock and there was no fucking alcohol. So I was getting to be way too sober when Ken Martin accosted me and then started being really pissy again about the autopsy thing. And then he was like, I know that your Guy didn't win, and blah, blah, blah, because we, like, supported Ben Wickler. And I'm like, come on the pod. We're so excited to talk. It's great. We'll talk about this in the pod. We don't have to do this here at the Grinder party. So that was how I left it. And then he came on the pod and that. And then that was.

[Sarah]

Well, when I read the autopsy today, I was really excited that we could say the AR slur again. That was my biggest takeaway from it. Btc, you know, you're a man in the digital space. What do you think of their assessment of the 2024 campaign?

[Sam]

Also, did you buy those boots, like, today?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Sam]

This is literally the first time they aren't broken in at all. Those are brand new.

[Ken Martin]

Thank you so much for calling it up.

[Sam]

I'm a lesbian. I like a good pair of bo.

[Ken Martin]

Well, now that you've asked me and I'm on stage and I have to answer the question, I will admit that I did not read the autopsy because, I mean, I lived. Like, I lived all of it. I saw all the broken bullshit that we did. So, you know, I kind of.

[Sarah]

So what do you think they should do next? You got any advice? And you have a lot more followers than Ken Martin does on social media, so you could give them some tips.

[Ken Martin]

Well, look, I mean, I spent a lot of the lead up to 2024 begging and pleading for Democrats to actually embrace independent media. It seemed like going on MSNBC over and over and over again to talk to the same 400,000 people was not gonna do it. And now they get it, and so that's good. That's at least a step in the right direction.

[Van Jones]

All it took was losing an election that ruined the lives of millions of people.

[Ken Martin]

It's amazing what you can finally, when it clicks, once you descend headfirst into autocracy. I don't think that there's anything you

[Sam]

could learn in the autopsy about what Democrats do wrong that you couldn't learn from watching how Democrats handled trying to release or not release the autopsy. That feels like the main.

[Ken Martin]

The autopsy conclusion was actually the lessons we learned along the way. It was the friends we made along the way.

[Sarah]

All right, you guys ready to have some fun? We're gonna play a little game. We have the Latke legs over here, you know, because we're trying to be culturally appropriate. And over here, we have Team Crooked. And what we're doing is never Trump trivia, right? We're gonna test each side to see who knows better about Never Trump trivia. You have a whiteboard.

[Sam]

Okay, this is your official Katie Porter whiteboard.

[Sarah]

Here's the kind contribution. Here's the thing to you people in the audience, okay, you're gonna be tempted to shout out the answers to help them out. That's not fun. What would be more fun is if you shout out the wrong answers to try to confuse them. Okay? So please don't help them out. All right, Sarah's going to ask the first question at the end of this. Obviously, the winner gets the thing that a content creator wants the most, which is the opportunity to create additional content.

[Sam]

Okay, first Never Trump question. What were the Twitter burner names of Mitt Romney and Jim Comey? Go.

[Sarah]

When I had Jim, what did you guys think about that Jim Comey pod when he was on this week?

[Sam]

Are we rehabilitating Jim Comey at all or are we still mad at him?

[Sarah]

Rehabilitating him? Mix and miss. Okay. Are you rehabilitating Jim Comey? Say yes. Okay. Do you still want Jim Comey to die in a fire? Say yes. Okay. Well, he's making progress. All right, do we have our answers? Team Crooked? What do we have? Pierre Delicto and question mark. One point. Pierre Delicto and Jay Come. Ooh. One to one. Reinhold Niebuhr was Jim Comey's name Reinhold Suffer Insufferable. Question two, that's a three part question. What was the name of Mitt Romney's dog that he tied to the roof of his car resulting in feces dripping down the window? Bonus, what type of car were they driving? And bonus two, which son shared that story with the Boston Globe thinking it was going to be a cute anecdote about their childhood?

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, that's good.

[Sarah]

Yeah. All right, we've got over here. They got the answer. Sam, time's up. Turn around. Over here we have Sheamus, Volkswagen tag two for three. Seamus, Buick tag two for three. It was actually a Chevrolet Caprice station wagon. Chevrolet Caprice, two for three. So it's three to three. That's nice. Question number three. This is a good one. This was kind of a local one.

[Sam]

Yeah, this one's for the locals here, which never Trumper and friend of the Bulwark once got into hot water for spending 200,000. No, not 200,000, just 2,000. It was just 2,000 in campaign funds at Voyeur West Hollywood, a risque nightclub here in Los Angeles.

[Sarah]

$2,000 was spent at Voyeur nightclub by a Never Trumper and friend of the podcast. Frequent podcast listener. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Crooked TV running out. Three, two, one. Do you have any guests? No. What do you have over here?

[Sam]

Yes, obviously, Michael Steele. When Michael Steele was running the rnc, he ran up two grand in strip club fees.

[Sarah]

Voyeur. Wow. Has anybody been to voyeur? Van, have you been to voyeur?

[Jon Favreau]

No.

[Sarah]

Anybody else out there? Can I just say that the lock of legs over here, I'm just carrying the load. Other than nothing. This is why I put Sam on your team, actually. Okay, Van, this one might be more up your alley. At a March Madness Sweet 16 game, Chris Christie was spotted gorging himself in an unusual manner. What snack was he eating? And what was he doing with that snack? It was a meme. It was a picture of Chris Christie at a Sweet 16 game.

[Sam]

Sam spent so much time with the Never Troublers. Now that he knows.

[Jon Favreau]

Unfair.

[Sarah]

Do you think it's unfair?

[Jon Favreau]

Well, Sam is like a bulwark person.

[Sarah]

I don't know what the bulwark has to do with Chris Christie at Madison Square Garden. What was Chris Christie doing? He was eating MMs. He took one box and then dipped it into another.

[Sam]

He emptied one box of M's into another box.

[Sarah]

Deep threading a pretzel is incorrect. Chris Christie had a bag of M and M's and he was pouring it into a larger receptacle of M and M's. You're going crazy.

[Sam]

Why do you know that?

[Sarah]

I'm fucking crashing.

[Sam]

I know that when he told me that on the bus, I was crying.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Van Jones]

Sam, I'm worried about you.

[Sam]

I predicted Sam that playing against Sam is Jane.

[Sarah]

I thought you were going to be the ringer.

[Sam]

I know everything terrible. I'm so sorry.

[Sarah]

It's five to three. Luckily, the bonus round, it's kind of like prices, right? You get bonus points at the end.

[Van Jones]

Okay.

[Sarah]

You know, no worries. You guys are still in the game.

[Sam]

This is a good one. I believe you guys. I believe in you for this one. This Never Trump candidate and this was the. This was going into 2020. This never trump candidate did a stunt in front of Arby's, asking where's the beef? Despite that being a Wendy's slogan. And he dropped out shortly thereafter.

[Sarah]

What year was this? 2020.

[Sam]

This was going in. So think of the Never Trump candidates who are primarying Trump.

[Sarah]

Oh, boy.

[Sam]

Guys, he wore a sandwich board in front of an Arby's.

[Sarah]

Nobody any guesses? Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. It's five to three.

[Sam]

We can give them a hint.

[Sarah]

Okay, well, no, actually we're just going to move on to the follow up question because then it'll be a bonus. This same candidate pretended like he was hiking the Appalachian Trail. Where was he really? And a extra bonus point if you can name who he was with. This is a. This is your life. Tim Miller. That I'm doing just for my own benefit.

[Sam]

Tim was like, I'm running this guy's campaign. He's going places.

[Sarah]

Could you share with us Mark Sanford

[Sam]

inside his mistress in Argentina?

[Sarah]

Mistress. Not Olivia. It was Maria, actually. It was Maria. You have three points and two. So it's six to seven right now.

[Sam]

Are you doing that math in your head? Six, seven.

[Sarah]

Okay. All right. We're going rapid fire right now, so if you don't know it, just let me know. What? Oh, sorry, I can't even say this. Okay,

[Sam]

Wait. Okay. Know this. What is the title of Joe's Scarborough's song about 911 that he has played several times on Morning Joe? It's an original song.

[Sarah]

I should be recused.

[Sam]

Morning Joe Scarborough.

[Sarah]

You know it though. You know. You don't know.

[Sam]

Come on, you're on their show. You're a mayor, part of their gang.

[Sarah]

It's called Reason to Believe. Jane. Number eight, Nikki Haley's son has recently achieved minor notoriety as a White Nationalist maga. What is his name? The White Nationalist MAGA son of Nikki Haley. Did you guys know that Nikki Haley has a white nationalist son? It's interesting. He's a quarter Indian. You know his name. He's very handsome.

[Sam]

Do you know that the actual MAGA never trumpers white nationalist crew is incredibly diverse? It's a real testament to America how diverse our White nationalists are.

[Sarah]

Do you have it, Sam? Yeah. Naveen. No. New racist. Nail it. Nail. And Haley.

[Jon Favreau]

Take it a point away.

[Sarah]

And he would like that. He would like that.

[Sam]

Stop hogging the sheep.

[Sarah]

Just declare Brian suggesting. Naveen, let me skip ahead to.