Even Marjorie Taylor Greene Doesn’t Buy the McConnell Story

Summary

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Episode Overview

Theme:
The July 8, 2026, episode of The Bulwark's "Next Level" podcast centers on the mysterious absence and reported illness of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The hosts—Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller, JVL (Jonathan V. Last), and Sam Stein—discuss the state of Republican politics surrounding McConnell, the odd media strategies used by his allies, and the spectacle of party leaders clinging to office. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s surprising candor and the ever-present Trump effect in GOP dynamics also feature heavily.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter: U.S. Soccer and "The Trump Curse"

• [00:00–03:00]
  • Lighthearted complaints about the U.S. soccer team’s poor performance against Belgium, satirically blamed on Trump.
  • Quote (Tim Miller, 01:55): "Yeah, I think that's true. He cursed us... all that goodwill... just went down the toilet. So I do blame Trump."
  • Quote (Sarah Longwell, 02:10): "It's an everything Trump touches dies moment."

2. Mitch McConnell's Health Mystery: Rumors, Responses, and Republican Nerves

• [03:57–08:49]
  • JVL raises the "suspicious" circumstances around McConnell’s extended absence after being hospitalized on June 14 and returning to public consciousness only after rumors (spread by Laura Loomer) suggested he was "a vegetable" or possibly brain dead.
  • McConnell’s allies quickly coordinated social media posts claiming to have had in-depth, policy-heavy phone calls with him.
  • The hosts are skeptical about these claims.
    • Quote (Sarah Longwell, 06:03): "I kind of call BS on, like, you talked to Mitch McConnell for the first time [after] his catastrophic health event. And you're like, sir, what are your thoughts on Iran right now? Like, that actually doesn't feel like how you would approach that conversation."
    • Quote (Tim Miller, 06:28): "Why would you call him up and be like, hey, I heard that you were unconscious for a couple minutes, but can I just get your thoughts on, like, what's going on with the strait of Hormuz?"
  • They compare this to similar "weekend at Biden’s" claims, questioning why we never see the allegedly sharp, private versions of these ailing leaders.
    • Quote (JVL, 05:49): "It was that funny John Stewart bit ... why can't we see the private meeting Biden everybody keeps saying how great he is?"

3. The Politics of Clinging to Office

• [07:51–11:42]
  • Discussion of political incentives for McConnell to stay in office despite incapacity—primarily to prevent unfavorable succession outcomes for Republicans in Kentucky.
    • Quote (Sarah Longwell, 08:18): "They have him holding on for political reasons and... he should no longer be in office. He is no longer fit to serve..."
  • The conversation reflects on the broader trend of aging politicians refusing to step aside, touching on notions of dignity, generational shifts, and ego.
    • Quote (Tim Miller, 11:07): "Politicians are like the most... selfish people on the planet. They're egotistical, narcissistic... This ties together Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell."
  • Some self-aware humor as JVL confirms he’s previously—half-jokingly—questioned if seniors past a certain age should still vote or serve.

4. Elaine Chao’s Mysterious Trip to China

• [11:42–13:04]
  • The group flags as “very bizarre” the fact that McConnell’s wife, Elaine Chao, traveled to China just days after his hospitalization, for apparently unofficial meetings.
    • Quote (Sarah Longwell, 12:32): "That is weird. I don't have any speculation on this other than, yes, it's very strange."
  • Raises broader questions about "rogue diplomacy" and the unusual dynamics inside the McConnell-Chao household during such a critical time.

5. Marjorie Taylor Greene Weighs In—And the Panel Agrees?

• [13:16–15:46]
  • JVL plays audio of MTG's street interview with TMZ.
  • Key Quote (MTG, 13:45): "Shame on the Republican Party for just basically staying silent while such a powerful Republican senator is basically laying in a hospital like a vegetable. And his wife flew to China... days after he basically died... This is what they support: people holding onto power until they're practically dead or do die in office."
  • Surprisingly, the Bulwark panel largely finds themselves agreeing with Greene’s take on the party’s obsession with maintaining power, even if they’re wary of her as a messenger.
    • Quote (Sarah Longwell, 14:29): "No lies detected."
    • Quote (Sarah Longwell, 14:56): "...she's not wrong in this instance about the establishment, of trying to hold on. But also, I don't know that I need to get my information from Marjorie Taylor Greene."

6. The "Deathbed Conversion" That Won’t Happen

• [15:27–19:34]
  • The hosts lament that McConnell will not have a "John McCain thumb’s down" moment—a dramatic, redemptive stand at the end.
    • Quote (JVL, 15:27): "We're not going to get the John McCain deathbed moment for him that I, that I'd pitched. I don't think, and I don't know exactly the severity like a deathbed conversion..."
  • They discuss the differences between the personalities and legacies of McCain and McConnell, and the lack of "courage" or "one last dramatic stand" in the latter.
    • Quote (Tim Miller, 17:41): "I feel like there's fundamental difference between McCain and McConnell. Like, McCain's whole M.O. was that he liked taking independent shots... That was never McConnell's brand. McConnell was like ultimately an insider."
  • The group begins evaluating McConnell’s legacy and Washington’s tendency to honor raw power, not principle.
    • Quote (JVL, 19:05): "In D.C. people like to honor power and success. And so I don't think this is like, you don't have to hand it to them, but... like the leaders of the parties that actually wielded power, it’s kind of like Pelosi and him..."

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Notable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the McConnell "proof of life" statements
  "[Mitch McConnell’s team] all post on Twitter within five minutes of each other about how they just talked to Mitch McConnell for 20 minutes. And so it's like, was it a group call? ... It is a little suspicious."
  — JVL (Jonathan V. Last), 04:45

• Skepticism on “in-depth policy calls”
  "Why would you call him up and be like, hey, I heard that you were unconscious for a couple minutes, but can I just get your thoughts on... the strait of Hormuz?"
  — Tim Miller, 06:28

• Balancing skepticism of rumor sources
  "Between Laura Loomer, who we should never believe because she's a lunatic, and Scott Jennings, who we should never believe because he’s a liar, it’s possible the truth lies somewhere in between..."
  — Sarah Longwell, 07:14

• On politicians clinging to power
  "Politicians are like the most... selfish people on the planet. ...This ties together Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell..."
  — Tim Miller, 11:07

• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s critique
  "Shame on the Republican Party for just basically staying silent while such a powerful Republican senator is basically laying in a hospital like a vegetable. ... This is why the state of our country is so pathetic."
  — Marjorie Taylor Greene, 13:45

• No "McCain" moment for McConnell
  "We're not going to get the John McCain deathbed moment for him that I... pitched."
  — JVL (Jonathan V. Last), 15:27

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Summary Table of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | Highlight | |--------------|----------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–03:00 | U.S. Soccer Loss & Trump Satire | Blaming Trump for the World Cup loss, pop culture banter | | 03:57–08:49 | McConnell Health Rumors | Questioning GOP narratives, skepticism of rumor sources | | 08:49–11:42 | Political Tenure, Succession Issues | Commentary on politicians’ ego, holding office too long | | 11:42–13:04 | Elaine Chao’s China Trip | Discussion of its strangeness and possible implications | | 13:16–15:46 | MTG & Party Inertia | MTG’s critique of GOP, panel agreement on her points | | 15:27–19:34 | No “Deathbed” Redemption for Mitch | Legacy talk, differences from McCain, lessons in power |

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Tone & Style

The tone mixes wry humor, healthy skepticism, and moments of frank exasperation at the state of American political leadership. The discussion is candid, informal, and often sarcastic, with a clear pro-democracy, anti-authoritarian bent.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode dives into the ongoing saga of Mitch McConnell’s unexplained absence and the GOP’s awkward attempts to manage the narrative, spotlighting both the absurd and serious facets of American politics. The hosts dissect party incentives, the opaque nature of congressional leadership, and the way power dynamics rarely align with dignity or the public good—all served up with trademark Bulwark snark. If you’re following the drama around Republican Party power-players, this is a sharp and entertaining breakdown.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

The one thing I know about Republicans, when we had a very bad candidate and found out we didn't vote for that person, we walked away.

[Sarah Longwell]

For better or for worse. It's incredible stuff.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Is that right, Sarah? When the Republicans had a bad candidate come forward, they got rid of them. Hello, everybody. This is the Next Level podcast I'm hosting. Cause JVL is out still sending him our love. I forget how the podcast is supposed to start, but I'm here with my best buddies at the Bulwark. Our publisher, Sarah Longwell, who's tweeting thumbs have been getting some exercise this week. And Sam Stein, managing editor, who's been editing, which is important. Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

Part of the board that take Twitter shaming from you. You are.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Maybe, maybe Twitter shaming for me is the thing that causes reflection. You know, it's kind of like when somebody kind of like when you're drunk tweeting, when your drunk friend comes up to you and like, hey, buddy, couple too many pops last night. Whoa.

[Sarah Longwell]

Anyway, telling lies about me on the Internet.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

I know it is for shame.

[Tim Miller]

For shame that ever happened before.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

The Americans got their ass handed to them last night in football. American soccer by the Belgians. Their waffles. Belgians dominated. There's some discussion of that. I'm not a big soccer person myself, but I am. I'm in. I Piers Morgan on the show today, so it's a little minor troll. I wore a Scotland shirt.

[Tim Miller]

Shirt says France.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

It's Scotland and France both. It's a double attack on the fucking limeys. Anyway, I just think we should appreciate the reality, which is that, like, this is all Trump's fault. I mean, it was like the most shameful soccer game I've ever seen. I mean, the eight year old soccer that I watch has had better goaltending than the Americans did last night. And how else could you explain that other than the Trump curse?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I think that's true. He cursed us. I. I totally agree with you. We had such momentum and then he decided to get his little hands involved in the red card situation and. And then all that goodwill that we had built up just went down the toilet. So I do blame Trump.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, yeah. It's an everything Trump touches dies moment. I will say I don't have a ton. I mean, I've been watching the World cup and enjoying watching the World Cup. I was enjoying.

[Tim Miller]

I did not enjoy watching last night, did you?

[Sarah Longwell]

No, no, no.

[Tim Miller]

I was enjoying.

[Sarah Longwell]

I was enjoying watching our. And rooting for our. Our men. But last night I was watching the game. And I was like. I. I couldn't tell if it was just that now the level of competition is up to a point where, like, we just couldn't hang. Or I was like, why do we look like this? It was the part where the guy, the goalie leaves the goal and just, like, kicks the ground accidentally so that the other team. He's so far out, the other team just, like, bops the ball and it rolls down into the goal. That was embarrassing.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

You have children. You have watched Space Jam. Yeah, it was kind of like when the aliens took the power from the NBA players. And that was Trump. Trump is the alien. And he. The players went out there and could not do it. Anyway. Okay, that's a bad l. But.

[Tim Miller]

But in Space Jam, we beat the aliens.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Well, but, like, it was. Shut up, Sam. Shut up, Shut up. Here's my reply to that. Shut the fuck up, Sam.

[Tim Miller]

I just wanted. Look, I'm an editor and I want to be.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

That's a good. Fine. But it was like when they lost their power, they got the power back. Okay, maybe we'll get the power back in 2030 when Trump is gone.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

There we go. I've finished it. Norway. I'm rooting for Norway. Do you have a team? Do you have one? Anybody you're rooting for? No.

[Tim Miller]

Can I be honest? I'm kind of rooting for England.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. I'm also think. I'm rooting for England. I'm British by matrimony. Matrimony. I don't mean.

[Tim Miller]

I mean my mother time. It's been a long time for that American.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Fuck the king. All right, Mitch McConnell. We have some news about Mitch McConnell. We've got a bunch of politics news today. We'll talk about the main Senate race some more. I had a friend that texted me who listened to all 55 minutes of me and Sarah last night in bed, which was not, I don't think, a way to kind of wind down. But me and Sarah have already done 55 minutes on the main Senate race, so we'll do a little more with Sam. The first. It's pretty big news that Mitch McConnell is alive. We think it's a little suspicious. I don't want to be in conspiracy. It's a little suspicious that Mitch McConnell goes into the hospital June 14th. Okay. He's been basically MIA ever since. It is now July 7th. So it's almost a full month. Yesterday, rumors start to spread. Laura Loomer, who. Okay, can't trust Laura Loomer on the one hand. On the other, Hand. She's been like one of the best inside sources in the White House. So, you know, you gotta just take that with what it for what it is. Laura Loomer said that he was a vegetable and he's brain dead yesterday. And so this seems to have yielded the need to respond. Sarah's friend Scott Jennings, John Barrasso, John Thune, all, all post on Twitter within like five minutes of each other about how they just talked to Mitch McConnell for 20 minutes. And so it's like, was it a group call? Like, was. Did he call them all one at a time? It is a little suspicious. And they all were also saying, talking about how the conversation was very depth. Like, he's very. He's doing a lot of policy discussion, a lot of thoughts about Iran, foreign affairs, the NATO meeting in Ankara. I don't know. Okay. I guess I kind of like to see it.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Could they not record the. The conversation? Can we get, like, can we get an audio recording maybe? It does have this vague, you know, flashback to the. The Biden era where everyone's like, yeah, you know, he may seem slow in public, but in private, man, he is just a whiz. He's just whipping around.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

It was that funny John Stewart bit that John Stewart did that was like, why can't we see the private meeting Biden, everybody keeps saying how great he is. Why can't you bring cameras into the meeting?

[Tim Miller]

Like, technology exists. Yes, we can have the business.

[Sarah Longwell]

Wait, I kind of call BS on, like, you talked to Mitch McConnell for the first time, he's had this catastrophic health event. And you're like, sir, what are your thoughts on Iran right now? Like, that actually doesn't feel like how you would approach that conversation. Also when they were like, oh, you know, it was this in depth conversation. I had the same thought, where were they all in a zoom together? And they had an in depth conversation about those things. And I don't know, I mean, look,

[Tim Miller]

I'm not such a good point. Like, why would you call him up and be like, hey, I heard that you were unconscious for a couple minutes, but can I just get your thoughts on, like, what's going on with the straight of Hormuz? Like, can we just talk? Like, can we just.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

A cuttery LNG ship got hit yesterday in the straight of our Moose.

[Tim Miller]

Sir, I need, I need your insights here. Scott Jennings.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't believe you.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I will just say on the Loomer thing though, like, she did tweet about that yesterday. She may be right. She also tweeted like that Mark Kelly was getting handsy with a, a woman at some soccer watch party. She wondered who it was and it was Gabby Giffords. So, like, it's not the most reliable reported. Did you see that one?

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Gabby Giffords is like, I am looking great. You're right.

[Sarah Longwell]

Laura Loomer, she thinks I'm the side piece. What a compliment.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Great.

[Sarah Longwell]

That was a great. That was a great own by Gabby Giffords. But can I just say, between Laura Loomer, who we should never believe because she's a lunatic, and Scott Jennings, who we should never believe because he's a liar, it's possible the truth lies somewhere in between, which is that Mitch McConnell is neither brain dead nor discussing the finer points of foreign policy at this moment. That perhaps he is a sick old man who at this point in time is holding on for reasons that are, I think, clear to all of us. Right. They don't want Bashir to be able to appoint somebody to replace him. He doesn't want to resign.

[Tim Miller]

Bashir can't, as I understand, Bashir can't appoint. They don't. They have to do some sort of commission where they give him three recommendations or something like that. I thought the issue was that there's like an August 3rd deadline before which they'd have a special election that has to run and they're worried that Tom Massey would jump in and run as an independent and potentially cost them some votes, if not, you know, score a win. And so there's like real concern about all this stuff.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's great editing and factual information. Thank you for that. My point, I guess, is that they have him holding on for political reasons and that he should no longer be in office. He is no longer fit to serve in public office. And like we just got done with this whole Tom Keene, I disappear for four months and don't tell anybody. And so like Republicans can't just. And just elected officials in general can't just keep hanging onto their offices while they are indisposed for health reasons.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah, I guess I would just also say on the political side of this, like it's July 7th and Congress isn't doing anything like this. The seat is up in November. Like, he's like, like, so it's. He's going to be replaced.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

You know what I mean? It's like it would be kind of a short term thing at this point, you know, like that's, that feels like elder abuse. And if that is the real reason, it's like we're going to make you pretend like you're in the Senate for five months when the seat is. It'd be one thing we could say, okay, we have to do a little light elder abuse, because like, four years of the Senate is a long time. It's just practical consideration. And I'm not defending that, but that would at least be sensible. That's like not what's happening here. Right. Like, it's over. Like, he's already going to be replaced in November. I don't know. There's a little bit of just this people holding on. And you have to be careful talking about this because I honor our elderly and our seniors. Even though Sarah likes to bring up that I one time suggested maybe they shouldn't be able to vote.

[Sarah Longwell]

I like to bring it up. You did do that.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

You're falling.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Sorry. What was the proposal? At what age?

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

I was just saying that, like, you can reach a certain age where it's

[Sarah Longwell]

like, Sam, this is one of those instances where nobody was talking about anything remotely like this. And Tim was like, I just want to throw this idea out there.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Should 16 years old vote? Can't vote. Should 96 year olds be able to. I don't. It was just. We were just. There's no bad idea.

[Tim Miller]

You said this publicly.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah, on a podcast. On this Next Level podcast. But anyway, we got. I also just. People should have a dignified retirement. My dad just retired. He went on a little past 65. That's good. You know, he still kind of had the mojo going, but he wants to hang out with the grandkids. He's happy. That's good. Like, that's life. You're 84, man. Like, what is that? Like? There's a ton. Every phase in life is different. Like you have. There are moments for everything, you know, there. As we're about to get to a point, Graham Plattner. There's moments for binge drinking and being a dick. You know, there's moments for being in the Senate. There's moments for retirement. Retirement. Maybe there's moments for being a dick, but you know, there's moments for. For being a little bit more irascible, you know?

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

There's moments for being more responsible. There's moments for being.

[Tim Miller]

You could keep going, but we get it. Yeah.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Stepping outside, you see where we are. Well, this is. It's continued with these guys. It's like not just McConnell. It's like it's a.

[Tim Miller]

No, it's all. Well, this is like my. I mean, it's not theory, but it's. Politicians are like the most. Among the most selfish people on the planet. They're egotistical, narcissistic. They think that they should be all should lead people and that they deserve their votes. And this. This ties together Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell and ties together Graham Platner, who selfishly felt like he could run for this seat despite all that baggage. I mean, that is the one sort of underlying principle here is that these people believe that there's no one better to serve than them. And so they hold on for God knows, way too long in this case.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

There's a weird subplot to this. Sarah, have you been following the Elaine Chao subplot?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. She went to China for like three days after he went. He. He was found unconscious.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah. She took a couple meetings in China. She's in Shanghai, where two days after his hospitalization, the Chinese People's Institute of Foreign affairs said Chao met with its president, Wu can, in Beijing. They discussed US China relations and other issues of common interests. That's a very bizarre thing to do. Like, in general. I mean, she's not a member of our government.

[Sarah Longwell]

Does she have an official position of any kind right now?

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

I don't think we should be. Have. People should not be doing rogue diplomacy with China. I don't think just in general, but it's particularly bizarre to do it two days after your husband was in the hospital.

[Sarah Longwell]

That is weird. I don't have. I don't have any. I don't have any speculation on this. It's just other than. Yes, it's very strange. And I. And unless. I don't know, I don't know what these people's relationship. And like. But like, one would assume if one spouse was found unconscious that two days later you're not hopping on a plane to go transatlantic. But I don't know.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Unless.

[Tim Miller]

Unless. Unless she's there to scout information for Mitch so that when he gets on the phone with Thune, he can have more detail.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

More detail. Well, Sarah, you're responsible and you don't speculate, but not everybody's like you. You know MTG? No. Marjorie Taylor Green. JBL's gone.

[Sarah Longwell]

Sorry that I just to you.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Marjorie Taylor Greene, she had a different take. My guys at tmz, I did a little interview with those TMZ guys for this YouTube over the weekend. If you'll miss that, go check it out. They're funny. And one of them caught MTG on the streets of New York and asked her about what's going on with Mitch and Elaine Chao. And I want to play her response.

[Sarah Longwell]

Listen, I wanted to get your thoughts on the Mitch McConnell situation. He's been hospitalized for weeks. Other than that, we don't really know what's going on. What do you think about it?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I think it's extremely serious. And I'd like to say shame on the Republican Party for just basically staying silent while such a powerful Republican senator is basically laying in a hospital like a vegetable. And his wife flew to China and met with the vice president of China just days after he basically died. And they brought him back with CPR and took him to the hospital. But you know what? It doesn't surprise me from the establishment because this is what, this is what they support. They support people holding on to power until they're practically dead or do die in office. And this is why the state of our country is so pathetic.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Any, any lies detected there?

[Sarah Longwell]

No lies detected.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

I'm not sure if the vice president's not here. Is the vice president correct? I'm not sure that's correct. We'll have to fact, we'll have to effort a fact check on that. But besides that, something to be said for being free, you know, free of the shackles of party constraints. No. Or nothing to be said.

[Tim Miller]

I can't channel JVL on this. Kudos to mtg. She's great. Yeah.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Nothing to be said.

[Sarah Longwell]

JBL would say, I could do it. JBL would be like, that's my girl telling it like it is. I, I, I feel about Marjorie Taylor Greene the way I feel, well, not quite about Laura Loomer, because Marjorie Taylor Greene has made some decisions that are rational. She's not wrong in this instance about the establishment, of trying to hold on. But also, I don't know that I need to get my information from Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah, I mean, I guess my final thing ON the Mitch McConnell is we're not going to get the John McCain deathbed moment for him that I, that I'd pitched. I don't think, and I don't know exactly the severity like a deathbed conversion

[Sarah Longwell]

to say, well, yeah, it would have been the same.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

I don't, McCain is in a lot of ways, obviously I find more honorable than Mitch McConnell. And frankly, Mitch McConnell's like at the top of the list of people to blame about the situation that we're in right now. But the, you know, McCain was himself, you know, I don't. Would he have been the person to do the final thumbs down on, on the Obamacare repeal at a different point in his career? You know, you don't you can't say, you can't say what's in a man's heart. But he recognized that he had power. And John McCain. And obviously Donald Trump was very nasty. John McCain was not any better to Mitch McConnell. And he said worse things about Elaine Chapman.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, he's been very racist about Elaine Chow.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

Yeah, I mean, he had, they had an opportunity across several different policy areas, you know, over the past few months for Mitch McConnell to, you know, buck the president and wield some power and get together with his buddies Thom Tillis and John Cornyn for kind of one last ride. And like, this is, it feels ridiculous to say it. It's like fantasy politics. Like, what is this? The hangover Senate. But it's like, I don't know. They could have. Right?

[Sarah Longwell]

They could have. I wish they would. Cornyn Tillis, like, let's. I, I wanted to see the YOLO Senate for the people that Trump has been awful to. This is. But Trump's always known them a little bit better than they know themselves. Right. He just knows what cowards they are. They're not just afraid of Trump, they're afraid of his voters. They're afraid of their post Senate lives and being welcomed into the right Republican clubs. And it's embarrassing and it's a shame or shameful for them. But Mitch McConnell, it really is like nothing left to lose. Can't take it with you. This is the, this is the time. But who also knows how, like, what state he's in right now?

[Tim Miller]

So I would just say that. I don't know. I feel like there's fundamental difference between McCain and McConnell. Like, McCain's whole M.O. was that he liked taking independent shots. Like, he had these streaks every now and then where he crossed the party. And that was his brand. And that was never McConnell's brand. McConnell was like ultimately an insider. So it was never going to be in my equation, part of him being part of like, like some Ocean's Thirteen cape or one last run. Like, let's do it. Like, that was not in the car to me. It would have been nice, though. I mean, there was moments, I guess, especially around the confirmation of the Cabinet, whereas it was evident that, like, he didn't want Pete Hegseth. I think he voted against Hegseth. I'm remembering correctly. I don't know, there's a bunch of people that he was clearly unhappy with. And this guy who's like the master operator of the Senate couldn't really like, manage to cobble together four votes to

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

like, stop or this year. I mean, forget maybe give him the chance then. But I mean, like, Todd Blanche stuff is coming up right now.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, he won't be there for that. Let's just be honest. He's not going to be back in the Senate. So it's, it's done. And I think the legacy, I'm actually curious for you guys because, you know, the leg McConnell, I don't think you guys think it's particularly complicated, honestly. I think some people will treat it as complicated because he has had sort of a turn against Trump in the last couple years. But like, when it gets written, it's, it's clear to me that this guy had a chance to do something brave and important and whiffed and that's that. Like, that is it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[JVL (Jonathan V. Last)]

And I think that, look, there's some bad Senate majority leaders that have buildings named after them in D.C. you know, in D.C. people like to honor power and success. And so I don't think this is like, you don't have to hand it to them, but I just think that kind of you look at say, you know, from our adult lives, right. Like the leaders of the parties that like actually wielded power. It's kind of like Pelosi and him maybe honorable mention to read. You want to give Harry Reid a shout out.

[Tim Miller]

I'm just gonna Compare Reed and McConnell and I'll tell from the Democratic perspective and you tell me how it works.