Little Marco’s Awkward Gift to Pope Leo (w/ Katie McGrady)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Little Marco’s Awkward Gift to Pope Leo"

Podcast: The Bulwark
Host: JVL (Jonathan V. Last)
Guest: Katie McGrady
Date: May 9, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

This episode centers on a quirky, diplomatic slip-up: Senator Marco Rubio's awkward gift exchange with Pope Leo XIV at the Vatican. Host JVL is joined by Katie McGrady—Catholic commentator, SiriusXM host, and all-around Vatican-insider friend—to dissect the nuances of official Vatican gift-giving, share personal encounters with the Pope, and analyze the cringeworthy moment when a football-shaped paperweight with the State Department seal was presented to the Holy Father.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The Diplomatic Ritual (00:53 – 01:13)

• JVL frames the scenario: Secretary of State Rubio’s ceremonial visit to the Vatican, culminating in the customary gift exchange with Pope Leo XIV.
• Katie, herself an experienced Vatican visitor, recounts her own gift-giving moments, underlining their personal and meaningful intent.

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2. Katie’s Personal Gift-Giving Experience (01:13 – 02:55)

• Katie describes the gifts she recently offered Pope Leo:
  • Signed copy of her and her husband’s book.
  • Photograph of Leo’s home parish in Chicago (now closed), taken on the day of his election.
  • Custom-designed socks styled after the Chicago White Sox jersey, playfully emblazoned “Leo” in White Sox font.
• She shares a heartwarming anecdote of making a dad joke with the Pope, referencing their inside joke about only wearing white socks:
  • Katie (01:34): “He said, famously, ‘I only wear white socks.’ So we made a dad joke together in front of thousands.”
• Katie observes that as a non-diplomat, her gifts can be small, personal touches—something state officials should still aspire to with some forethought.

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3. The “White Elephant” Gift Exchange Fiasco (03:09 – 05:09)

• JVL and Katie react in real time to the awkward moment between Marco Rubio and Pope Leo:
  • The Pope bestows a pen, possibly crafted from olive wood, described as a “pen of peace” and adorned with the papal seal.
  • In response, Rubio presents a football-shaped paperweight bearing the State Department seal, which both hosts find ill-considered.
• JVL dryly notes the contrast between thoughtful, symbolic papal gifts and what comes off as a generic souvenir:
  • JVL (03:53): “I got you this football paperweight from the gift shop. It's got the State Department seal on it.”
• Katie speculates whether Rubio “forgot” the importance of the gift or panicked last-minute:
  • Katie (04:31): “Did he forget you're supposed to bring a present to the Pope? …He apologizes for the gift before he gives it to him… it's like he realizes this was a fumble. Pun totally intended.”
• They critique the awkwardness of apologizing for a gift in the moment and the mismatch between the recipient (a baseball fan) and the actual gift (a football).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Katie McGrady (01:34):
  “He said, famously, ‘I only wear white socks.’ So we made a dad joke together in front of thousands.”
• JVL (03:53):
  “I got you this football paperweight from the gift shop. It's got the State Department seal on it.”
• Katie McGrady (04:31):
  “Did he forget you’re supposed to bring a present to the Pope? … He apologizes for the gift before he gives it to him… it's like he realizes this was a fumble. Pun totally intended.”
• Katie McGrady (02:14):
  “The greatest Catholic achievement of all would be having a personal inside joke with the Holy Father. Wow. How amazing is that?”
• Katie McGrady recalling Pope Leo (02:21):
  “Be very careful to use political terms to describe the church…” (Noted this struck a chord with young Catholics.)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Gift-giving traditions at the Vatican: 00:53 – 01:13
• Katie’s personal gift anecdote: 01:13 – 02:55
• Observations on meaningful vs. thoughtless gifts: 02:10 – 02:55
• Pope Leo’s advice to Catholic youth: 02:14 – 02:40
• Reaction to Marco Rubio’s gift and their real-time critique: 03:09 – 05:09

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Tone and Style

The conversation is playful, irreverent, and anecdotal—reflecting the hosts’ familiarity and shared Catholic/Catholic-adjacent background. Katie’s storytelling combines warmth with sharp, cultural observation, while JVL adopts a dry, wry tone as he pokes fun at diplomatic clumsiness. Their banter both educates and entertains, offering behind-the-scenes details on the choreography of Vatican visits and the unspoken language of political gift-giving.

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Summary

For listeners seeking a light yet insightful look at the symbolism, rituals, and, occasionally, the comic missteps of high-level visitations to the Vatican, this episode delivers with warmth, humor, and a dash of inside-Catholicism. The main takeaway: even world leaders can bring the wrong thing to the world’s most famous gift exchange—reminding us all of the power of a gift with heart, whether in socks or statecraft.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everyone. This is jvl, and I am here to talk to you today about little Marco Rubio's white elephant gift exchange with Pope Leo xiv. It happened yesterday. The Bulwark Pope and the Secretary of State met. And to talk about this today, I am pleased as punch to be joined by my friend Katie McGrady. You may know her as the host of the Katie McGrady show on the Catholic Channel on Sirius XM. She is an IRL friend of mine. I'm friends with her whole family. Her family's friends with my family. We're buddies. And now we get to do a little thing together for Bulwark takes. Katie, thank you for coming on.

[B]

I'm so excited to be here. I get to see the pinball machine in person. Yeah, we have matching Lego sets in our houses. I feel like that's, like, a friendship. And I pestered you. I was like, you've got to do a take on this. You've got to do a take on it.

[A]

So. So I want to set the stage. The Secretary of State went to the Vatican and met the Holy Father yesterday. And as is typical, they exchanged pleasantries, they took a picture together, and then they exchanged gifts. Now, you. You yourself met the Bulwark Pope?

[B]

I did, and I gave him a gift.

[A]

And what gift did you give him?

[B]

So I gave him three small things, keeping in mind I am not the Secretary of State of the United States of America. So I gave him a copy of Tommy and I's book. First copy, hot off the presses. And then I gave him a picture of his home parish from Chicago, which is actually closed. But a photographer friend of mine on the day he was elected went and took pictures. And I was like, you know, if you ever feel homesick. And then I kind of choked up a little bit when I was giving it to him. And he was very kind. He was like, it's okay. You know, he's very fatherly. And then I gave him a pair of socks with specific socks. Socks I, in fact, had designed. They're the White Sox jersey as socks, and they say Leo and the white socks font, which the deeper cut of this is. I then referenced that when I interviewed him at the National Catholic Youth Conference. And he said, famously, I only wear white socks. So we made a dad joke together in front of thousands.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I love our Bulwark Pope achievement.

[A]

Unlocked.

[B]

Unlocked. And to be fair, like, he made a comment at that youth conference that got an applause line where he said, be very careful to use political terms to describe the church and that plays in my head constantly because the young people, teenagers, Gen Z clapped like, he was kind of startled that they started clapping when he said that. So I gave him those three things. I also gave Pope Francis little Lego Pope. And he was utterly delighted by that. But again, I'm not the Secretary of State, so my gifts can be, like, charming little personal effects that ultimately get auctioned off to, like, Swiss Guard for charity. Heads of state, diplomats should put a little thought into it, I think.

[A]

Well, we'll get into that in a minute. I would just like to say again, for anybody who's listening, who's Cathy, I mean, the greatest Catholic achievement of all would be having a personal inside joke with the Holy Father. Wow. How amazing is that?

[B]

It's true.

[A]

All right, we're gonna watch together the scene that unfolded when it was white elephant time at the Vatican.

[C]

Well, it's easier. This is a baseball guy. But when it has the seal of the State Department. So what to get someone who has everything. I thought olive being, of course, plant of peace. There's the coat of arms here. Pontificate here. But friends. And this is what we in Chicago call the coffee table palace here. Different works of art.

[A]

Yeah. You know, a totally normal thing.

[B]

What to get the man with everything.

[A]

Katie. A totally normal thing where the Pope gives the Secretary of State a pen made with olive wood, possibly even from the garden of Gethsemane or something. I don't know. Right. The papal seal on it and, you know, a pen of peace. And here's a book for you to take home with all of the beautiful arches surrounded by ruby. Is like, I got you this football paperweight from the gift shop. It's got the State Department seal on

[C]

it, and it has the seal of the State Department. So it.

[B]

I.

[A]

Did you hear what Leo says? Wow.

[B]

Okay. Like, here's. I just. Did he forget? Did he forget you're supposed to bring a present to the Pope? And, like, they had one of these on the plane. That's all I can figure. So my dad does this. When he gives a gift to somebody, he immediately apologizes for it. Like, if you don't like it, you can take it back. And, like, I've watched that clip a dozen times. And I keep thinking to myself, he apologizes for the gift before he gives it to him. I know you're a baseball guy, so here's a football. It's like he realizes this was a fumble. Pun totally intended.

[A]

So I have a different read on this.

[B]

Okay.