Nicolle Wallace: The Sore Loser Is Trying to Ruin Our Elections

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Nicolle Wallace: The Sore Loser Is Trying to Ruin Our Elections

Date: July 17, 2026
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Nicolle Wallace

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Bulwark Podcast features host Tim Miller in conversation with Nicolle Wallace, host of MSNBC's "Deadline: White House" and the "Best People" podcast. The main focus of their discussion is Donald Trump's persistent and evolving rhetoric around election integrity, particularly his ongoing narrative that delegitimizes elections he loses, and the psychological impact on his supporters. The conversation also touches on the absurdity and cynicism of these claims, the futility of fact-checking entrenched beliefs, and the broader implications for democracy and political accountability as the country heads into another tumultuous election cycle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Updates and Setting the Tone

[00:00 – 01:38]

• Tim Miller discusses upcoming vacation plans and the challenge of taking time off given the political chaos expected in the coming year.
• Nicolle Wallace shares her own struggles with "vacation guilt," both professionally and as a parent.
• Both reflect on the necessity of breaks amid the stress of ongoing political developments, previewing the seriousness of the coming election seasons.

2. Anticipating Trump’s Next Big Election Lie

[02:12 – 06:29]

• The episode is pre-recorded ahead of a Trump speech, with both assuming the content will follow his “same old crazy” election denialism.
• Notable mention of reporting that Trump plans to allege Chinese interference in U.S. voter rolls—a recycling of previously debunked claims.

Cynicism and Mind Games with Trump's Base

• Nicolle Wallace points out the inherent absurdity in Trump’s narrative:

  “What he's going to say is, president Barack Obama was president, the election was free and fair and I won. When President Joe Biden was president, the election was free and fair and I won. When I was in charge, I fucked it up so badly that I lost. It's like an epic, epic, epic mind fuck to his own base. He's going to make his base swallow this absolute shit sandwich…” (Nicolle Wallace, 02:53)

• She later drills down on the absurdity, highlighting the contradictions Trump requires his followers, and conservative media, to accept:

  "He's gonna make his base swallow this most brazen pile of absolute bullshit lies that of the last three presidential elections, he's the only one that couldn't protect us from China or Iran or whoever he's gonna say hacked him." (Nicolle Wallace, 03:39)

Media Complicity and Gaslighting

• Wallace predicts Fox hosts will struggle to reframe Trump’s narrative, putting MAGA media in a position of either defending Democratic-run elections as fair or admitting Trump’s administration failed.
  • Tim Miller added sarcastically:

    "Bring in some people that know how to do the business." (Tim Miller, 03:36)

On Fact-Checking and Engaging with MAGA

• Tim Miller suggests that direct fact-checking is fruitless—Trump supporters may be "too stewed in, like, terror about American cities and so…the fact checking is a fool's errand." (Tim Miller, 04:42)
• Instead, Miller proposes confronting Trump supporters using their own logic:

  “Who did he… who, who was in charge of [election security]? Who did he fire? Did the bug not stop with him?” (Tim Miller, 04:57)

• Wallace links this to the broader absurdity of the right’s willingness to accept self-serving narratives:

  "If he can convince them of this, that he ran three times and the only one that was stolen from him was the one he was in charge of, then I think we're just in a different... We're in a different timeline than I think even you and I, in our sort of sometimes grim outlook, think we are." (Nicolle Wallace, 06:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It's like an epic, epic, epic mind fuck to his own base."
  — Nicolle Wallace (02:53)

• "You're cussing a lot."
  — Tim Miller (06:29)
  "This story is so triggering."
  — Nicolle Wallace (06:31)
  (Reflecting the raw emotion and exhaustion with ongoing election denial discourse.)

• On vacation and burnout:

  "The older you get, the longer it takes to be on vacation, so the longer you have to stay on vacation."
  — Nicolle Wallace (01:24)
  (Exemplifying the personal toll of covering nonstop political drama.)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:00 – 01:38 Personal updates, vacation plans, framing the stress of following U.S. politics.
• 02:12 – 04:22 Anticipating Trump's election lies, unpacking the absurdity of his narrative.
• 04:22 – 06:29 The futility of fact-checking, psychological manipulation of the MAGA base, and the broader consequences for democracy.

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Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is candid, exasperated, and laced with dark humor and profanity—reflecting the exhaustion both hosts feel as they confront the surreal, repetitive nature of Trump’s attempts to delegitimize election results. They emphasize the psychological manipulation inflicted on his supporters and media, noting the dangerous precedent it sets for American democracy. The episode is a blend of cathartic venting and serious warning about the stakes of the coming elections.

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. It is the last pod before you're rid of me for two weeks. And so I had to bring in a fave, a friend. She's the host of the Best People podcast. She's the host of Deadline White House every Monday through Friday at 4pm on Ms. Now, it's Nicole Wallace. Hey, Nicole.

[B]

Hi, friend. Where are you going?

[A]

I am going to Germany and then France and then Mexico.

[B]

So we're covering the whole world. Can I cover the whole world? That's amazing.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, we're gonna do gay dads in Europe and then family at the beach.

[B]

I love it so much. I love it so much.

[A]

Like last year, I took one week off. What's your vacation schedule?

[B]

Oh, this is so bad. So I've taken two days off to go to a baseball tournament and I have all this, like, vacation guilt. I should just take a. I should take a week. Should take a couple weeks. I've got the kids guilt to go away. I have, like, I have vacation guilt. Yeah. I've got to get over it. It's. It's a. There's not. There's not any reason I should plan a vacation. You're inspired.

[A]

You do have to get over it. Here's why. And here's why I'm doing two weeks this year. There's two reasons. One, last year I did one week to go see Oasis with my friends and I came back and it was like the worst week of my life.

[B]

Yeah. Reentry is brutal.

[A]

And I was like, you know, I feel like reentry will be better if at the end of the vacation, then I do another bonus time with family, where it's just the family. I feel like by the end of that, I'll be like, you know, put work. Sounds fine, actually.

[B]

Yeah, it is a good two weeks is a good stretch. I feel like the older you get, the longer it takes to be on vacation, so the longer you have to stay on vacation.

[A]

The other thing is I just. And this kind of ties to our topics. The next two years are going to be insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we have a dementia riddled old man.

[B]

Said that for 11 years.

[A]

I know, but that's what I'm saying. I was like, I don't see how I can take two weeks next year. And we're going to have literally two presidential primaries and a dementia riddled autocrat trying to hold on to power.

[B]

I mean, I'm afraid to leave the. You know, in those circumstances, you know you want to make sure your passport's current and whatnot.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. I know. I had the lawyer that tell me keep the phone off at customs. It's fine. The cash is cash is otherwise distracted right now. I don't think.

[B]

No whiskey bottles for us.

[A]

Custom. We're pre taping this. Trump's speech is a couple hours, but as you said in the green room, it's always old crazy with him. It's no new crazy. So I think we can speak about it as if we've seen it. Here's what we know so far. When asked by a reporter, he said that the reporter asked if it would concern election machines and integrity. Trump said it would concern that subject. Well, of a couple other things. Really big news. Our country has to shape up. That's what we're going to be talking about. It doesn't get bigger without free and fair elections. You don't have a country. There's some reporting that he's going to mention China interference trying to get voter rolls. That is something that's been reported for years anyway. I don't know. But how are you? Are you going to be watching? Do you have your popcorn?

[B]

No. So here's my issue with this. I can't get through the gate of the total fuck you to his supporters because what he's going to say is, president Barack Obama was president, the election was free and fair and I won. When President Joe Biden was president, the election was free and fair and I won. When I was in charge, I fucked it up so badly that I lost. It's like an epic, epic, epic mind fuck to his own base. He's going to make his base swallow this absolute shit sandwich of like I'm the only one that can fuck it up. I mean, what is he going to hire John Brennan tonight?

[A]

Yeah. Bring in some people that know how to do the business.

[B]

The most cynical thing I think I've seen him do. He's going to ask his base to accept. He's going to ask Brian Kilmeade to go on TV tomorrow morning and anchor newscast where Brian Kilmeade is going to have to tell the morning MAGA viewers that Obama and Biden ran free and fair elections with election integrity and Trump didn't. And you know who was running national Intelligence? Rick Grinnell until May of 2020. And then, John, is he gonna fire him tonight? I mean, his dudes were in charge of election integrity and he's gonna make his base swallow this most brazen pile of absolute bullshit lies that of the last three presidential elections, he's the only one that couldn't protect us from China or Iran or whoever he's gonna say hacked him.

[A]

I think that's a very important frame. I'm glad you said that, because one thing that you can do, I feel like sometimes you end up talking past Mag, as we all do, when they're talking in their delusions and you're trying to fact check them, and it's like they're unfact correct. You know, they've been 10 years just kind of stewing and lies and an alternate reality. And so, like, the fact checking is a fool's errand.

[B]

Right? And so sometimes it's like crime statistics, like when they, when they're all ginned up about the cities and you're like, actually, the crime. And it's, it's like they're too stewed in, like, terror about American cities. And so it's. But like, the vibes are, what you're

[A]

doing is you're taking a fake value. You're saying, okay, fine, all right, sir, you're right. Great. The election was stolen. Really? Who did? Why? Why hasn't Trump figured it out by now? He was the only one that couldn't secure the elections. He was the only one that couldn't ensure that he had a free opportunity at the ballot place. Who did he, who, who was in charge of that? Who did he fire? Did the bug not stop with him? It's good. It's kind of like Cory Booker in the, in the Todd Blanche hearing. When he was asking Todd Blanche, he's like, so you went to meet with Gillian Maxwell. What would you get out of that?

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Do you have any leads?

[B]

Right, like, how was that for you?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, it' Be accountable to the truth. And I feel like as ex Republicans, I am rooting for Democratic candidates because it's the only party that houses reality and the truth and supports democracy. But in terms of not having a dog in the fight, what is the limit for the absolute toxic. Makes you look so stupid that you're actually going to believe that the only election that was stolen from Donald Trump was the one that he ran. Like, and if this isn't it, then what is it? Is what I want to know. Like, if he can, if he can convince him of this, that he ran three times and the only one that was stolen from him was the one he was in charge of, then I think we're just in a different. We're in a different, you know, we're in a different timeline than I think even you and I, in our sort of sometimes grim outlook, think we are.

[A]

You're cussing a lot.

[B]

This story is so triggering.