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- [00:00]
A
I get it. Like it wasn't healthy to drink three vodka Red Bulls when I was 25 and stay up till 4am But I did it and I had a great time and I don't regret an ounce of it. And did I smoke on the curb outside the bar? I sure did. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Focus Group Podcast. I'm Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark, and this week we're circling back with the kids these days, and I'm talking about Gen Z. I want to do this for a couple reasons. Gen Z is one of the swingiest demographic groups. They went toward Donald Trump in the 2024 election and now they're swinging hard back against him. Trump's vote share with 18 to 29 year olds was somewhere north of 40% in 2024, which is the best performance a Republican presidential candidate has had with that group in a while. Yet Trump's approval rating with that group is around 25%, according to the Spring 2026 Harvard Youth Pollution. As we often do, we're going to dig into what that discontent does and does not mean. We're also going to listen to some recent graduates who are trying to make their way in the world, which means I'm going to put on my you kids get off my lawn hat. I'm joined by the Bulwarks Gen Z contributor who's taught me terms like hope, maxing and breadcrumbing. Rachel Jan Faza, founder of the up and Up. How you doing, Rachel?
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B
Hi, I'm good. How are you?
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A
Time to educate Sarah about the ways of the Utes. Some of your recent articles are Peak Nostalgia, A Generation of Late Bloomers, A Chorus of Gen Z Graduation Boos, and our lines the New Third Space. Do you mean waiting in line like a queue?
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B
Yes, boy.
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A
So why don't you talk about some of the micro trends that some of the micro trends among the zoomers that our audience would find enjoyable to learn
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B
about a lot of these trends. So speak to the current economic anxiety. Anxiety in general, question about what the world's going to look like in five years, frustration with the fact that everything has felt pretty doom and gloom for the adolescent and early adult years of Gen Z's lives. It's all part of the bigger picture of how they're thinking about their future and what that looks like and the fact that it's really unclear. And so starting with the generation of late bloomers, which is something I've been talking about these past couple of months, there's so Much media noise about how Gen Z is doing everything. Delayed delaying milestones, getting married later, starting their careers later, living with their parents, not coupling up, not having kids. And a lot of the data, most recently that's come out, there's been, I feel like 101 articles about how part of the fertility crisis and the fact that people aren't having kids is because of technology, cell phones, social media.
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A
I've also seen a lot of these stories and I guess I was like, is it. Which part of the phone is it? Is it there? People just are too absorbed in their phones and in technology and social media. They don't know how to live a real life.
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B
Offline phones have made it and just social media in general has made it so that you don't really have to leave your home. The pandemic was also a big factor in this, where it really changed how people hang out, young people in particular, but really all people. Like I think about, even just in my personal life, like the way that my parents and grandparents act pre and post Covid is really different. And I don't think this is something that's isolated to Gen Z necessarily. But I do think that because Gen Z was so young at the time of the pandemic and at the time that social media became a thing and they got a cell phone, it became one of those new sort of traditional milestones that they went and it changed their relationship to all those other milestones that might come after that. But I think when it comes to in general, sort of the way that it might be because of social media or cell phones that people are having less kids is because it has changed the way that they socialize and therefore the way that they couple up or the way that they think about dating or having sex. And there's also just less social resiliency in general. This is part of the late bloomers story that I've been telling is that the hurdle of going out and hanging out with someone in person has that. That didn't exist ever before. And I think Covid played a big role in this too. It's not just cell phones, but the idea that you don't really have to leave your home. Both because people now work from home. You can basically do anything from home. You can have anything delivered at any point in time. You don't really need to go out. Like I've asked this in focus groups a lot where I've asked, you know, have you ever wanted to cancel plans because it gives you anxiety or you just don't feel like going or. I think that people have become inherently more flaky because they have the option to entertain themselves if they decide not to go. And it's become more socially acceptable to stay home while you can still have this whole, you know, nightlife of watching whatever you want, streaming, ordering your favorite meal, things like that. Which gets to the last piece I wrote about line culture and the fact that one of the biggest trends this summer is waiting in line, at least from what I'm seeing in New York City. But I think we've seen this across the country there. The lines are insane, whether it's for frozen yogurt, for coffee, for a store and people. Now, I think especially, you know, I talk about the two Gen Z's and the younger half of Gen Z, Gen Z 2.0. I think they're really sick and tired of. And look at the way that social media has negatively impacted their lives, their upbringings, and now there's a pushback to that. And so people actually are going out and waiting online is the new place to be.
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A
Why do they have to do waiting in lines? Can they not just go to a bar? I did read this. I read that young people are increasingly not drinking, not going to clubs like that. They're doing a lot more healthy activities with people and like gym life. And I do think I have a bit of a Xennial because I sit at the cusp of the Gen X and Millennial. So we're like a little micro generation. But like we went out and going out. I get it. Like, it wasn't healthy to drink three vodka Red Bulls when I was 25 and stay up till 4am But I did it and I had a great time and I don't regret an ounce of it. I, uh. And did I smoke on the curb outside the bar? I sure did. I understand that we're all like, well, that is, those were vices, but also, I don't know, they're like a healthy part of a life well lived, are they not? And I understand. Hey, I love canceling plans. Canceling plans is great. Yeah, I'm going to stay home and watch Netflix. But also I gotta. I'm out with my kids and my kids, parents and you. You know what? Don't. Don't people crave being together?
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B
So the idea that Gen Z is drinking less and socializing less like this has been documented. I think that part of the shift in the past few years, in this era of optimization and health and wellness and the fact that a lot of people are wearing wearable tech that tracks their sleep, what they're putting into their body, their hydration, all the levels of what it means to be, quote, unquote, healthy on paper.
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A
Yeah, I don't drink enough water.
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B
A problem these wearable tech pieces don't account for.
- [07:47]
A
I took mine off because it was tracking my heart rate and it was causing me to be anxious. Right. Like, I don't want this here.
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B
Right. And it can actually make it worse.
- [07:57]
A
Yeah.
- [07:58]
B
So I think if you. If you look at sort of the trend and the what's being fed to people through their algorithms and this idea that this is what you have to eat in a day to have the perfect body, this is what you should drink or not drink. And there's been really a conversation about how bad alcohol is for you. But now. And I think that was playing into why. And then again, coupled with all these other factors that we've already discussed, like social media and the fact that you can just stay in, you can order, can have something delivered to you within five seconds you like. Also, there's, you know, the sort of habitualization of socializing for Gen Z was interrupted by Covid. And so they never really, like, learned how to socialize or how to date or how to go to a bar. But now what we're actually seeing is a pushback and a sort of counterculture movement where I've been seeing on. On social media recently all these videos where it's like, hey, yeah, you might have like, not had the extra calories of that drink, but you know what, you missed out on the time with your friends and the memories you made and the experience basically, like, you missed out on the friends you made along the way. And I've seen so many videos like that. So it gets to what you're talking about of like, yeah, it wasn't maybe necessarily quote, unquote, like, the healthiest thing to be drinking, three vodka Red Bulls, but you had other healthy mental health benefits of being out socializing, experiencing, meeting new people, learning how to flirt, like, all of these things that are necessary and human.
- [09:32]
A
I will just say as a last matter on this point, I just think there's better places to socialize than waiting in line. That is a bizarre micro trend. But, you know, what do I know about things these days? Okay, so we've done a series of focus groups in recent months with a bunch of zoomers who identify as politically moderate. This means that their votes in 2024 were a bit of a grab bag. Some voted for Trump, some voted for Kamala. Harris. Some voted third party and some didn't vote at all. With the ones that had voted for Trump, we saw a lot of evidence that the large gap between like we saw that gap between Trump's current approval rating and his vote share in 2024. Let's listen to some of what we heard about Trump and about the Republican Party more broadly. Young voters who had voted for Trump but now are disappointed.