Ross Douthat Is Sending JVL Back to Confession

Summary

The Bulwark Podcast

Episode: Ross Douthat Is Sending JVL Back to Confession
Date: July 31, 2026
Host: JVL with Bulwark colleague Jasmine Green

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Episode Overview

In this special Triad mailbag episode, JVL and Jasmine Green answer listener questions on the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), the political challenges facing young Americans, potential threats to the 2030 Census, and offer a humorous tease about JVL's strong opinions on New York Times columnist Ross Douthat. The conversation blends political analysis with candid, sometimes self-deprecating commentary, providing listeners with a thoughtful and lively discussion on current left-wing politics and policy concerns.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) in U.S. Politics

[00:16 - 08:06]

• JVL's Take on DSA:

  • The DSA is a brand sitting between European-style social democracy and more radical, online “tanky” socialism.
    • “When I think about democratic socialism, I really see, like, two very separate worlds, neither of which is fully represented in America.” (JVL, 01:06)
    • JVL distinguishes between the 'Scandinavian' model (robust safety net, universal education/health) and a fringe “abolish the police, abolish the Senate” group.
  • Critical of extremes:
    • He finds the “tanky stuff” (abolishing police/Senate) to be “very pernicious and very stupid.” (JVL, 03:24)
    • “You can’t not have police, though...otherwise you have anarchy.” (JVL, 04:29)
    • Describes the idea of abolishing the Senate as “just silly...you’d have to start rewriting the Constitution. It’s just fantasy stuff.” (JVL, 04:57)
  • Favors reform, not abolition—open to police and Senate reform but opposes radical proposals.

• Jasmine’s Gen Z Perspective:

  • Notes a generational gap: Gen Z doesn’t self-identify as democratic socialist, but DSA-style populism resonates because of economic challenges.
    • “I do think that a lot of the general ideas of left wing populism that kind of define the DSA’s brand are very popular among young people.” (Jasmine, 05:33)
    • Young people are drawn to DSA language because “it’s hard when you’re 23, 24, 25, and you don’t have enough money to live on your own, let alone buy a house, let alone start a family.” (Jasmine, 05:46)
  • Suggests established Democrats do not understand the daily realities faced by young voters.

• How DSA Could Influence Democrats:

  • JVL’s “best case scenario” is that some Democrats “adopt some of the healthy, good stuff from… the DSA policy suite… but who don’t throw in with the whole thing.” (JVL, 06:42)
  • Points to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) as a model—someone whose activism helped push the party, but who matured into a “serious legislator.”
    • “[AOC] is a really good template for how you could get the best of both worlds here.” (JVL, 07:41)

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2. Protecting the 2030 Census

[08:06 - 09:10]

• Listener Question: What can be done about Trump administration efforts to undercount immigrants in the census?

• JVL’s Answer:

  • Expects legal challenges, but believes the “biggest thing is a Democrat has to become president in 2028.”
  • A Democratic administration could “undo a lot of that damage” with oversight before the census is deployed.
  • Skeptical the courts alone can block a hostile administration’s efforts.
    • “If anybody needed one more reason to feel urgency about 2028, that’s it.” (JVL, 08:56)

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3. JVL’s Ross Douthat Rant Teased

[09:10 - 10:02]

• Listener Question: Thoughts on Ross Douthat joining 60 Minutes?

• The discussion is cut short for non-subscribers, but:

  • Jasmine teases: “If you want to hear what JVL thinks about Ross [Douthat] joining 60 Minutes, you have to join us first and become a Bulwark plus member.”
  • JVL jokes about needing confession before launching into his true feelings:
    • “You’re going to make me go to confession again?...Now you’re tempting me.” (JVL, 09:43 & 09:57)
    • Jasmine retorts: “I’m not tempting you. CBS is tempting you.” (Jasmine, 09:59)
    • JVL: “Spoiler. I can’t [resist]. I should say.” (JVL, 10:02)

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Notable Quotes

• “I like the tanky stuff. Drives me crazy.”
  — JVL, 03:23

• “Young people are struggling...But essentially I think that the real socioeconomic challenges that young people face are drawing them closer to the DSA.”
  — Jasmine, 05:47

• “The best case scenario is that you wind up getting some Democrats who are, who do not come up through the traditional democratic pathways, who adopt some of the healthy, good stuff from like the DSA policy suite…but who, who don’t throw in with the whole thing.”
  — JVL, 06:38

• “If anybody needed one more reason to feel urgency about 2028, that’s it.”
  — JVL, 08:56

• “You’re going to make me go to confession again?...My conscience is clear. My soul has been born anew.”
  — JVL, 09:43

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• DSA discussion: 00:16 – 08:06
• 2030 Census challenges: 08:06 – 09:10
• Ross Douthat/Confession tease: 09:10 – 10:02

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Tone & Style

The discussion is candid, often humorous, and focuses on the substantive political and generational divides on the left. JVL brings a mix of skepticism and open-mindedness, while Jasmine reflects the perspectives and anxieties of younger Americans, making the episode engaging for a wide audience.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everyone. This is JVL here with my bulwark colleague, the great Jasmine Green. We're here to do another Triad mailbag for you, our friends, the people. Jasmine, take it away.

[B]

Hi, the people. Jvl, you have been dearly missed, and these mailbags have been dearly missed. So I'm so glad that we're back. Our first question is from Dave Yellow, who ask, DSA candidates have gotten a lot of publicity lately. What is your take on them? You haven't spoke too much about the dsa.

[A]

So this is a really interesting question. On the one hand, you will often hear people say, oh, the Democrats have a terrible brand problem and people don't like the Democratic Party. And so Democratic. The Democratic Party has to fix that. The DSA is in a way, one possible way to fix that because you have people running forum within the Democratic Party, but running against the party in kind of the same way Trump and MAGA did. So that's interesting. Maybe it'll be successful, maybe it won't. I don't know. On the question of what like, the DSA is, I don't know that anybody really knows. So when I think about democratic socialism, I really see, like, two very separate worlds, neither of which is fully represented in America. On the one hand, you have democratic socialism in the European sense, which is basically like, we want Scandinavia, we want government, we want more robust social services. So we think that the government should take care of people's health care. We think the government should really help provide universal education, and there should be a very robust social safety net. And that tradition, the democratic socialism tradition is not really, it's not Marx socialism. It's, it's, it's very close to like, you know, the Christian Democratic position which you would see in other European countries. So there's that in which I don't think there's anything wrong or objectionable with that. And you could probably get me a pretty fair way to saying that most of that is good. Then there is this sort of online tanky type socialism, which are the people who, for whom it isn't just about universal health care or free college, but they, they want to defund the police or abolish the Senate. And they think that actually Mao was good and that, you know, true communism has never been tried, that sort of stuff. And that's not really represented in American politics either within the Democratic Party. So you have these two things bouncing around inside the same label which isn't really filled up with anything yet. And one of them, I think, is reasonably Good. One of them, I think, is, is very pernicious and very stupid. So I like the tanky stuff. Drives me crazy. And I do not like, I don't know, I forget who the, the DSA adjacent person was this week who was exposed for saying things like, you know, we ought to abolish the Senate and we want to get rid of the police and stuff. And I, you know, I am quite skeptical of the way law enforcement is done in this country. And I, I've been pretty vocal for a very long time about the need for like, to really reform, professionalize law enforcement in America. We ought to have standards. The rest of law enforcement, you know, even your local PD should basically be as professional as the FBI, Right? And the FBI isn't perfect, but it's, it's a very professionalized law enforcement organization. You can't not have police, though. Like, you do have to have some form of law enforcement in, in the country, otherwise you have anarchy. And, you know, like, maybe, maybe that should look like the metropolitan police force in Britain. I don't know. But, but it is crazy to say, like, you shouldn't have police and it's crazy to say you shouldn't have the Senate. Now again, I think the Senate should be reformed in many ways. I think we should be adding some states and there are lots of reasons why you might say the filibuster should be removed or there should be term limits for senators or you should add states to try to reduce the power of rural states so that they don't have, so that you're protecting minority rights and not creating minority rule, which is to a large degree what we've got. But saying like, yeah, we ought to just abolish this one house of the legislature. It's just silly. Like, how would you do that? You know, like, you'd have to start rewriting the Constitution. Like it's, it's just fantasy stuff. And I don't, I don't truck with any of that. What do you and the Youngs think about the dsa? What do you guys even think of when you hear dsa?

[B]

You know, that's kind of an interesting question because I was reading Mona Charan's latest piece on the dsa and at the end of it she says that our Rachel Jonfaza, who has lots of conversations with Gen Z, that of all the conversations that Jonfaza has had that Rachel has had, she hasn't met a single person in our generation who identifies themselves as a democratic socialist or believes in the dsa. And so I thought that was interesting. I can't say that anyone I know is like a card carrying DSA member, but I do think that a lot of the general ideas of left wing populism that kind of define the DSA's brand are very popular among young people. I think that's especially true because young people are struggling. It's hard when you're 23, 24, 25, and you don't have enough money to live on your own, let alone buy a house, let alone start a family. But essentially I think that the real socioeconomic challenges that young people face are drawing them closer to the dsa. And unfortunately a lot of established Democrats don't really understand those problems, maybe don't relate to what people of the younger generation are going through. And DSA candidates tend to be young and fresh faced and millennials. And that's another advantage they have.

[A]

I think the, the best case scenario is that you wind up getting some Democrats who are, who do not come up through the traditional democratic pathways, who adopt some of the healthy, good stuff from like the DSA policy suite to the extent that that's a real thing, but who, who don't throw in with the whole thing. And so like, for this, like aoc, like AOC is the perfect example, right? She had to fight her way into the Democratic Party. She had to beat a sitting Democratic incumbent to get into the party. She was a dsa. She might have even been like officially a DSA type. She, she hasn't really changed her views or anything, but she's grown up and become a serious legislator and thought seriously about how to, how to, how to effectuate change in the government. And, and the DSA is like, read her out of the movement. You know, they're, they're, they're angry with her. I think, I think the genesis of it was because she was not on Team Platner. And I don't know, like, I think she's a really good template for how you could get the best of both worlds here. You could get the best of fresh thinking, new ideas, new blood, and also a person who is not irresponsible and who is not crazy and who is not going to go around saying things like Mao was good. Actually.

[B]

Our next question is from Judy B. What can be done to protect the 2030 census? Our great Katherine Rampel just did some original reporting on how the Trump administration is trying to take away millions of immigrants from being counted in the next census. So what can be done to stop them, if anything?

[A]

Well, I mean, a couple things. So there will be a bunch of legal challenges to, to what's going on. But the biggest thing is a Democrat has to become president in 2028. And if, if there is a Democratic president in 2028, they can undo a lot of that damage for the upcoming census because they'll be sitting there and have a chance to fix the instrumentation of it before, before it's deployed. If not, then I just don't have really much faith or more, maybe even any faith that the legal system will be able to stop, stop the next Republican administration from doing what it wants. So, you know, like, if anybody needed one more reason to feel urgency about 2028, that's it.

[B]

Okay, our next question is classic JBL rage bait. And I was so excited that today of all days, we get to talk about this. And it's from Jenny B. What do you think about your favorite New York Times columnist, Ross Douthat joining 60 Minutes? But wait, if you want to hear what JBL thinks about Ross, doubt that joining 60 Minutes, you have to join us first and become a Bulwark plus member. Join the fam and hear JVL go on a tirade against his favorite New York Times columnist.

[A]

Yeah. You're going to make me go to confession again? I just went to confession, Jasmine. Like my conscience is clear. My soul has been born anew. I've received absolution from our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. And now you're tempting me.

[B]

I'm not tempting you. CBS is tempting you.

[A]

To see if I can resist the temptation. Okay, spoiler. I can't. I, I should say.