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- [00:00]
A
This is JBL here with my best friend Tim Miller, and sitting in for my other best friend, my colleague, Sam Stein. Reduced that guy. I'm kidding. Because we, our other colleague Jonathan Cohn will be joining us from Michigan. Somewhere on the hand, I don't know which part of the hand he's in. Later on in the show. We have a lot going on tonight. We're gonna be ping pong between election results and news of the day and schadenfreude and some of the worst people in the world.
- [00:29]
B
And also there will be ad.
- [00:32]
A
I'm sorry, if you're a Bulwark plus subscriber or a YouTube Premium member, normally we don't have ads for you. We cut them out. Except for when we do these things live. There's no way to cut them because
- [00:45]
B
it's live, but you still get the comment privileges. You still get the Tim emoji.
- [00:50]
C
Oh, just worth it.
- [00:53]
A
They're great. So we're going to start first with the big news today. Get all the primary stuff. The conscience of our nation was shocked when the CEO of MyPillow, Mike Lindell, announced earlier today that he was stepping down in order to focus on his campaign for governor of Minnesota. I don't know how the pillows, whose pillows are they now if they're not his pillows, are they some dudes pillows? Your pillows? Their pillows?
- [01:26]
B
What are we supposed to do? What are we supposed to call him if he's not the pillow man, the former pillow man, the erstwhile pillow man? Isn't, is it? Is not Michelle Tafoya, the former sideline reporter also in that race?
- [01:41]
C
No, she's running.
- [01:42]
B
She's running for the Senate. Okay. It's hard for me to keep track of what's happening over there. I don't, I don't think that the prospects are going to be that great for either the erstwhile Pillow man or Ms. Tafoya. But you know, who knows that there was that big breaking news in Minnesota last week that the President himself announced, which is that Tim Walls in the state of Minnesota did a cyber attack on our own water supply. And so I guess we have to wait and see what kind of evidence that the President provides for that claim. It's a pretty shocking claim. It's pretty strange, actually. That hasn't led the nightly news and led the New York Times for the past few days because it's a pretty astonishing claim for the President of the United States. I think any past president who said that a governor was the point person for a Cyber attack on our water supply. I think that'd be.
- [02:30]
C
On his own water supply.
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B
I think that'd be a pretty big news story. But people are letting that go for now.
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A
Many people are saying that Governor Waltz also launched an attack on alternative downfill and that he has tried to take over the global supplies of alternative downfill in order to, I mean, who can say, hurt his political opponents.
- [02:53]
B
Yeah, you can't trust the polls with Mike Lindell. You know, as he said he was the point man for the. One of the point men for the Insurrection. But I. You do look at that and you know, he's down by 20 to Amy Klobuchar in the general election. Recent Mason Dixon Paul.
- [03:07]
C
That's it.
- [03:08]
B
Down to 22 in the Emerson College.
- [03:10]
A
Well, I mean, you can't believe, you
- [03:12]
C
know, that was taken before he. He was. While he was splitting his time between the pillow.
- [03:16]
A
They didn't know. They didn't know that. Who was locked and loaded, ready to go. Okay, let's go to real news. Tonight is primary night and the big one is Michigan Senate, where the blood feud between Haley Stevens and Abdul El Sayed is finally, mercifully coming to a close. Polls are closed now. I believe we have Jonathan Cohn at the El Said event. He will come and talk to us when he can. Our producers will just ping us and let us know. Right now we've got only about 17% of the vote in, but I'll say it is leading by 9, 53, 44. He's up by about 20,000 votes so far. Gents, what do you think?
- [03:59]
B
Yeah, I mean, Haley Stevens, it's early, but like right now is only up by 3% in Detroit. That's not. That's not going to be enough for her. So, you know, I think we'll give kind of full analysis at the end and, you know, speculate the speculation here. We'll have a pretty short shelf life, but I think all signs are pointing to an El Said win tonight and probably a pretty early one.
- [04:20]
C
Yeah, it feels that way. We'll wait and see the results. I know Cohen's actually in a spot now where he can come on, but I will just say, ultimately, you know, we'll have time to diagnose this, but ultimately for me, it's going to be a story of APEC backfiring spectacularly. They spent tens of millions of dollars for her and it probably hurt her, honestly, because it got her.
- [04:44]
B
Probably.
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C
Yeah, definitely.
- [04:45]
B
Definitely.
- [04:46]
C
Yeah.
- [04:46]
A
What are you seeing in the early results? Because, you know, this stuff well, is Stevens underperforming? Is El sayed over performing?
- [04:55]
D
He's overperforming. You know, we're seeing districts where Hillary Clinton beat Bernie Sanders, where Gretchen Whitmer beat Al said back, you know, when they were in the 2000. And he's winning those districts. Now, a lot of this is early vote. Typically early vote, you would think older voters, you would think that would be more Haley Stevens voters. But, you know, we are looking at a record turnout in this. I mean, the numbers, they're talking well over a million 40, 50% higher than the normal primary. So, you know, I gotta think. I mean, again, this is speculative, but I gotta think a lot of that early vote is his vote. I mean, his vote is just really committed to. And you know, I look, I've said all along the eyeball test, if you've been attending the rallies, he pulls people, she does it, you know, you know, she would do a rally, she'd get, you know, she'd get into an event, she'd get 20, 40, 50 people. A union would bring in some people or she, you know, she'd go to a church on Sunday and there's, you know, there's some affection for her, but he was bringing out the people. I've been burned enough seeing enthusiasm that doesn't, you know, I remember Howard Dean back in, you know, 2000, whatever.
- [05:59]
B
Nobody showed up to Joe Biden events in 2020, I gotta tell you.
- [06:02]
D
Right. And. Well, right. And so. But I think what we were seeing on the ground, you know, was indicative. And the polls, you know, we were
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B
like, well, maybe the polls are up.
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D
It doesn't look like it, you know. And Tim, was that where you were saying her numbers in Detroit, she would have to really just run the table. Yeah.
- [06:22]
B
For her, using the Biden model is just a huge run up with black voters and then more kind of the moderate, like, kind of suburban voters. But I think this ties back to Sam's APAC point that I think that there are a lot of suburban kind of traditionally M. Normy Dem types that were really turned off by this. And there was a clip going around today. I forget. I think it was Ms. Now, but I forget who credit for it, where they're interviewing this mom, you know, this woman who's like, I'm a moderate. I liked Hillary, I liked Kamala, but I would. I'd vote for a communist over somebody that wanted to keep giving money to Israel. So, like, I just think that, like, to. Her path was really running up the score of black voters. Really Doing well with kind of the former Republicans that vote in these primaries, the Pete Mayor Pete type voters and I and the Mallory voters. And I think that just didn't happen. I think that a lot of those voters ended up going for El Salad.
- [07:17]
D
Yeah, I mean, look, I mean. Oh, go ahead, Sam.
- [07:20]
C
Yeah, I just wanted to know. I mean, look, obviously we're getting ahead of ourselves, but we're operating off the assumption that Else Aid is going to win this thing and it looks like it's trending that direction. But I. With the caveat that things can change. Whatever. You've watched him in person multiple times and in your articles that I've read and, and luckily had the chance to edit, one of the things that you talk about repeatedly is that people kind of underestimate the type of political talent he is. Obviously there's a load of controversial stuff out there that is going to get resurfaced. Who knows what Republicans are sitting on. But can you speak a little bit to just sort of what you witnessed up close about whether he has the capacity to translate to both MAGA adjacent voters, but mostly people who are non political who he, he really does need to in the general get out and vote.
- [08:07]
D
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, first of all, he is, he, I mean, people say he's this phrase generational speaker gets overused, but it's kind of true in his stamp. You know, I mean, he is a incredible speaker debater. I mean, the origin story of Abdul, also a lot of people know this is he gives a graduation speech at the University of Michigan. And the invited commencement speaker was so blown away. He's like, kid, you got to go into politics. And of course, that's Bill Clinton is the entire, you know, the invited, you know, commencement speaker. He's, he's, he's, he's, I mean, he's, he's a great spot. I mean, even his critics would concede that he's incredibly smart.
- [08:41]
A
All right, audio's. Audio's rough. We're gonna let you go, John. Come on back later on if you have more, more to tell us. Very quickly, Tim. So I heard sort of interacting with people in our community about this race today and people, some people were saying, like, well, you know, I'll say he's really risky and like, I don't know how risky he is because this is a Democratic seat in a state with a Democratic governor in a wave Democratic year. In order for him to lose this race, he would have to be worse than a replacement Democrat by probably like three points, maybe Five, you have to. He'd have to be a lot worse than generic replacement Democrat.
- [09:26]
B
Yeah, I feel that way, I think. Yeah, no, I don't think so. I think he's the, the sense in which he's risky, I think are two moderate risks that I talked about this a little bit on Monday that I just would have taken into account if I was thinking about it as a voter. Like number one, you know, the people of Michigan in general elections during the Trump years have elected a lot of women with Haley Stevens profile. So it's just kind of like there wasn't really any reason to think that she would not win. And they like did Whitmer, Nestle, Slotkin, et cetera, et cetera. And so I think she was safer than him in that regard. It's a little bit of a wild card. I agree with Jonathan. I think he's really talented. I think a lot of the hits that they throw at him backfire. I think that a lot. And this goes to the APAC question. I think a lot of the attacks about him, about his positions about Israel, like might have been really potent attacks four years ago. I don't think they are now. And I think that he could lose certainly some potentially gettable voters for that. But I think that's offset like pretty significantly in other demos. So I just like, look, I mean, I think that, you know, him talking about the cost of living, talking about the Iraq war, talking about, you know, these big corporate interests and big, you know, deep state and not deep state, but big kind of, you know, military interests that have pushed us into these stupid wars.
- [10:49]
A
And we should be $32 million from APAC.
- [10:51]
B
Yeah, and so this goes to the apex thing. I mean, I just can't. Even if you were aligned with APAC's point of view and their mission, it is like an unbelievable self own. Like Sam, I mean it's, it's almost kind of undermining the stereotypes about your people, like how incompetent they've been in this. I like this whole program has been just a rapes rake step after rake step. And look at this. I mean if you just. I just pulled up. What are their big wins the last two cycles since they've started this? They've been putting huge, huge, huge, huge, huge dollars into these Democratic primaries for nothing. And they beat Wesley Bell against Cori Bush. They have a rematch tonight, so we'll see how that goes. What is that? Yeah, Bell's already won, so. Okay, so they got one and then they got Jamal Bowman in that New York seat. But like neither of those were real. I mean, those were self. Like, that was. Corey Bush and Jamal Bowman were both horrific candidates for a wide variety of reasons we don't need to kind of lay out. But like they did themselves in. It wasn't like the super PACs that were succeeded in that. Like anybody could have beaten those two candidates with, with as with how horrible their campaigns were managed. So, like they have no, no success. They have, I think, caused increased backlash and negative attitudes towards, you know, kind of their pro Israel worldview within the Democratic coalition. And I said this on Monday, like, I just think it's reasonable. If there was a Qatari American PAC that was putting $30 million in to a primary, I don't think that anybody would feel like it's anti Muslim or whatever to be like, I don't know if we want a, you know, even if it's American citizens that are like the cake claw pack, even it's American citizens, I don't think anybody would be like, we really want like the biggest donor in a primary to be, you know, Sharia law, dictatorship. Like nobody would be for that. And so anyway, I think the strategic
- [12:55]
A
decision here would have been to sit this election out.
- [12:59]
B
Yeah, right.
- [13:00]
A
I mean, the Netanyahu government has brought America into this war. It's an incredibly unpopular war. It is making America less safe and hurting America's interest in the world. So in this one particular cycle, you could have just said, you know what, we're just going to keep a powder dry. Seems to me, Sam, or tried to
- [13:20]
B
convince Haley not to run because I think Mallory made some missteps. But I do think that she would have potentially been a stronger candidate. But this was, again, when you add to the APAC missteps, they did this in New Jersey. Like they had Tom Malinowski, who was like a quasi, you know, certainly at least open to arguments, but had been critical of Israel and had been critical of some of our policies as far as funding Israel. So they went and, you know, and engaged in that primary in a way that sunk him. And there ended up being a squad, like a DSA squad member wins that seat. So it's just like just a total. Like they are the biggest losers of the primary cycle by a wide margin.
- [13:56]
C
Well, let me try to unpack my thoughts on this. And I'm just actually formulating them right now because I didn't expect that this is what we're going to be talking about. One is, I think that's right. And I think the proof is in the pudding because APEX kind of hiding their donations. Now they're setting up these front groups that they don't have the APAC association. And so the money's not actually going to directly from apac, it's going to these cutouts. So they know that they're toxic and they're trying to get around that. The other side of this, though, that's really a little trickier to work through is this, which is APEX founded to ostensibly improve American Israeli relations. Right? Like, that's the idea. It's like we want to keep America's support for Israel. What APEX become associated with is American support for the Netanyahu regime. And that's different. And APAC cannot, cannot sever itself from Netanyahu. And they really should, frankly, because there are other Jewish American political action groups that have been critical of Netanyahu, but APAC's not one of them. And I think APAC would do itself a lot of good if it were more open about having disagreements with the current Israeli government. Because the Israeli government's not Israel. It's just a government that runs Israel. And Israel is ostensibly democracy. And the government will change. I think that's the big problem is that they've basically said, no, you cannot countenance, we cannot countenance any criticism of Israel. And we will throw millions upon millions of dollars of people who will not offer a criticism of Israel. And candidates have for a while taken that exchange because the money's good and now even the good money doesn't get you very far. And I think, you know, ultimately, and you know, I'm not the only one who said this. Rahman Emanuel has said this. Others have said this. This falls at the feet of Netanyahu. He burned this bridge. And the longer he's there, the more this bridge is going to get burned. And it's just a shame, honestly.
- [15:53]
B
Substance. People have legit reasons to be upset. Yeah, like, sure. I mean, like, sure. Because are there, is there anti Semitic comments and tropes from people who are anti, you know, abac, etc? Of course. But like, people have legitimate reasons to be upset. The popularity country has gone down substantially because of their actions. And like, you know, if you're going to be in a democratic primary, like the idea, both morally, for the correct, you know, ideological reasons and strategically, like, having their support is harmful, not helpful. And, you know, so why can't AIPAC
- [16:30]
A
understand that Bibi Netanyahu has done for Israel what Donald Trump has done for America on the world stage? Like, it's a very simple, straightforward thing. The parallels are almost identical, right? Like, Canada is having a wholesale realignment of its relationship with America because of the actions of the American president. The rest of the world is having a wholesale realignment of its relations with Israel because of the actions of the Israeli prime minister. Like, it's just, you know, it's not like there's something unique and different here at the same time. Last question then. We're going to get out of here.
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B
We are.
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A
Is it possible.
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B
I thought we had a long night ahead of us.
- [17:03]
A
Get out of this topic. We have so much else to talk about. Is it possible that Francesca Hong will be a human shield for. For the rest of this race? Because I look at this and I. I feel like, you know, America can only fixate on one, like, seemingly way out there. Dsa. Tanky type. Not saying Francesca Hong is. She does not like holidays very much though. And it just seems like, I don't know, whenever somebody wants to reach for crazy, she's gonna be standing right there and next to her. We'll see. Ed's gonna look amazing.
- [17:41]
C
100%. I can't believe how many holidays she doesn't like. Is there a hot. I mean, someone was pointed out on Twitter, but she doesn't like Valentine's Day. Doesn't like. Thanks for giving.
- [17:51]
B
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. 100 JVL and by the way, I'll say it again, like, there's certain elements. How should I put this? I enjoy. I like the cut of Zoran's jib. He makes me laugh. We're on the podcast. He got into controversy, but he's a good hang with me. I'll say it's a little bit less for me as far as a hang is concerned. More lax, bro.
- [18:13]
A
Right, because he's a lax. And wrestling, bro.
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B
Yeah, yeah, whatever. And so, and I understand why some people like what cone were saying might look at it and have it rub the wrong way a little bit. But like, outside of that, he is super talented. And I gotta tell you, I watched him on, I believe it was over the weekend when he was on an MSNBC weekend show and they were asking him about these accusations of anti Semitism and his answer was so good and so compelling and well formulated and thoughtful and felt credible. We can put up during the thing. But basically he was kind of doing a much more eloquent, non podcasty version of what you were just saying about like the. The increase of anti Semitism is something that he's concerned about. He thinks that, like, the actions of the Bibi Netanyahu government are perpetrating a lot of it. He talked about the value of the Jewish people, used some language to kind of references, you know, I'm. This is, this is more your people, Sam. But, you know, some kind of chosen people. Vanderbilt, I don't know.
- [19:14]
A
He used some kind of cosmopolitan, they're good with money.
- [19:17]
B
He's flowerly biblical language about how much he values them, how many supporters he has on his campaign and how insulting it is to say that he's anti Semitic when all he's doing is making a critique on policy and that it was either in the same interview or in a different one that I watched of his, you know, prepping for this, where he was. He's also good on Ukraine. A lot of that other crowd who is in his kind of more lefty foreign policy world is less. Is not really that excited about the US Spending money on Ukraine, you know, and, and you can understand that is a coherent. If you're an isolationist, a coherent. But he was kind of tying more like Ukraine to Gaza and he was basically like, you know, Russia attacked Ukraine. They're a free country. We should be able to help them. We can't sit aside. So I, I just, I think he's super skilled and I think that the p. I think that a lot of folks who have, who really have like a Twitter or like small short clips view of him misunderstand how deaf he might be at being able to handle this stuff in the general.
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C
But to your point, jvl, I think there's always a limited capacity for national media attention. And if Franchesca Hong is going to win, and it looks like it, we'll know next week, obviously, I think there's going to be just a absolute sprint of fascination and coverage of every utterance she's ever made in her life. And people are going to obsess over it. And El Said is going to benefit, obviously, because there's just not that much. There's a limit, let's say, on the Internet's ability to handle multiple conversations. And I think he's going to be more combed over and she's not. And she's just going to be the flavor of the month. So, yes, human shield.
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A
All right, we're gonna move on to Max Miller in a moment. Max Miller, who went on the lead with Jake Tapper today. Boy, that was fun.
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D
Sure.
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B
Before we get to Matt Miller, are we gonna wait for Abdul to win to do the socialism discourse? Because I do have. I do. I did Promise the podcast listeners. I had a socialism rant I wanted
- [21:06]
A
to do, but we should wait for. Let's wait for him to win. I did a socialism thing today, Tim.
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B
I know you read it. I did.
- [21:14]
A
So Max Miller, his ex father in law, Senator Bernie Moreno, spoke to TMZ about his situation in the hallway in the Capitol. And Miller was asked about that by Jake Tapper. Let's give a look.
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E
Let's start there with your former father in law's story today about your daughter and the little blue bunny doll that she cannot sleep without. If it's true, that sounds like emotionally abusive behavior toward a toddler to refuse to give it to her when she can't sleep without it.
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F
Jake, I would agree that if that were true, that would be incredibly disturbing and that the senator would be right. However, he has taken two years to publicly acknowledge for me to resign from my seat. Why is that, Jake? If he truly believes. Look, I'm a father to a two and a half year old daughter. I believe that you're also a father to children and I don't know if you're actually a father to a daughter, but what I can tell you is, well, Jake, then what I can tell you is, is that if my daughter came to me and she said my ex husband did X, Y and Z and then I waited because I was nervous that a political live stream was going to expose a deeply impersonal, embarrassing matter to the senator for him to take that action. Sadly, this has nothing to do with my daughter, Jake. And that's what this entire thing is about.
- [22:36]
B
Did he say no, That's a very weak rebuttal about.
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A
It would have been terrible if it happened.
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B
Yeah, that's kind of. I don't know if someone told me that it was alleged that I denied my 2 year old. Be one thing if the child was like seven. Sometimes a seven year old needs to have their toy taken away from them, but that I denied my two year old, her beloved bony after I allegedly injured her collarbone, abused the child. And I think I would have been much more forceful, I guess I would say, in denying that had I, had I not done it. Certainly a little clearer about how I would never take my child's bunny from her. So I don't know, count me on the side of believing that he took the bunny.
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A
Sam.
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C
Yeah, none of this was particularly convincing.
- [23:24]
B
Bold, bold.
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C
Take there, Tim.
- [23:27]
A
Thank you.
- [23:29]
C
There was like a couple places though where he, he did that sort of song and dance where it's like if I were guilty, X would have happened. So he's like, you know, if this really happened, I would be arrested. Or if, if I really like, threw scolding hot water on my ex wife, why would she cook me dinner in six days? And you know, if I really had done all this, why did Bernie Marino take two years to speak out? It's like, none of that's a denial. Like, just straight up, it's not denying anything. It's just saying, you know, I couldn't be that bad, otherwise I'd be behind bars. And it's just sort of a classic retort for someone who is in fact guilty of this stuff. Right. It's like, I know I couldn't possibly be the person, the demon that you're portraying me as. So I, I left this whole interview. And I'm not the only one, obviously, like, more disturbed at his behavior. I thought his whole affect was weird. It's like, I don't know, he talked about like, testosterone replacement therapies that he's getting. He looked incredibly broad shouldered and no jacket. It's just like, if he was trying to come off looking psychotic, he did, he did a particularly good job in this interview. And I'm not really sure what the strategy is here.
- [24:33]
A
I, I try to stay away from stuff like this because I get pretty hot about like, men who betray their families. And I gotta tell you, like, if I was embroiled in a thing with my, where my, my daughter was a, a pawn in, in something, I felt like, and that she was being used to destroy my, my career at the Bulwark or something. I just quit my career at the Bulwark. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, the, the weirdness of. Well, you know, I'm gonna sit here and fight this out because I gotta, gotta protect my job. Like. No, you have to protect your daughter and your family. And if that means you have to suck up something unfair, then that's what you do, because that's what men do. You. Like, I, I just, I. Oh, he
- [25:24]
B
doesn't care about his daughter, obviously. He probably abused her. He was, that's the allegation.
- [25:27]
A
No, I mean, what I'm, what I'm trying to say is this man is psychotic.
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C
Yeah, like, this doesn't make sense. It doesn't compute to me. It's like, what, what kind of priorities do you actually have? Why is holding elected office in the house so important? Like, what exactly is he?
- [25:41]
A
Leave and fix your family or just
- [25:43]
C
fix yourself if, if you have to, like, just do anything other than this. And, and look, I'm not saying this. I'm not, I'm not going to read this quote because I'm trying to say this is all about, I'm not trying to tie it to Trump. But there was a part of this interview that really jumped out at me where he starts talking, oh, I think we have it.
- [25:59]
A
I think we have the video.
- [26:00]
C
If you have that video about him talking about how Trump is the template that he wants to follow here, I'd
- [26:05]
E
like to play that question is, are all three of these women who don't know each other, are all three of them lying?
- [26:12]
F
Yes. It's very easy. And I can tell you why every single time. And people have asked me, you know, what are you going to do? Are you going to drop out of this race? Are you going to resign? You know, are you going to get out before the deadline? And my answer to you, Jake, is no. And I can tell you why. In 2016, when President Donald J. Trump faced the most extreme allegations in the world that hit him day after day after day. And people in the media, very much like yourself and others, said that he would have no shot at winning, that he should not be the President of the United States. But guess what? He stayed in and he was resilient. And what the American people can see is that they can see that somebody is fighting who is resilient. And that is a quality that the American people cherish.
- [26:55]
B
Here's the thing. Besides the cherished part, he's not wrong. No.
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C
But also, that wasn't sort of what I took away from it. My takeaway was how pernicious Trump has been on people just like this who look at that example and say, you know what? Like, it's more manly to stick it out and hold elected office than it is to take care of my right. Like how. And how also Trump winning and everyone rallying behind Trump in that moment gave every single psychopath or problematic person in politics a permission structure to say, you know what? Voters don't really give a about this stuff. And I can basically my way through it. I'm, I'm struck by that. And in a way that's like, kind of a little jarring for me because that his, his North Star is Trump and his ultimate objective is power, and he has his priorities all out of whack for the reasons that JBL articulated.
- [27:54]
A
If, if Donald Trump wanted Max Miller out of the race, he could do it, right? This is, I mean, the holds, the hold Donald Trump has over Republican voters is such that if he came out tonight and said you know what? Max Miller is a bum. He's terrible. I demand that he get out or we're gonna send some people over to his house or something like that. Max Moore will get out of the race. And the fact that Republicans are not going to clean up their mess here is just one more indictment of them as an institution and as a party. I mean, say what you will about the Democrats, right? How long was it from the. The story with the credible allegations of abuse with Graham Platner to him getting like something clear was he was going to be out of the race was like 72 hours, I think. And this guy just been there. Everybody's known about this for. For forever, and he's just sitting there and I think he's gonna make it. Am I wrong? Do you guys think he. There's a chance that he actually gets pressured?
- [28:53]
B
There continues to be a drip, drip, drip here. And I think that one thing that they do have that some of these other people who have had these allegations, like, we're able to blame, like the liberal media, etc. But because the accusers include Donald Trump's spokesperson and the daughter of a Republican senator, you're seeing the stuff come out in Daily Caller, Daily Mail. I do, you know, and so I do think that that is what makes him a little bit more vulnerable to this idea that, oh, these are left wing, paid for by Soros accusers or whatever. This is Kavanaugh part two. It's kind of hard to do that when it's Stephanie Grisham and the senator's daughter. And you can try. And I think that. I think he'll probably get away with it.
- [29:33]
A
Is this dangerous for Moreno? But he becomes seen as like, what is he doing? You know, talking about these women and, you know, real men ought to be allowed to treat them.
- [29:41]
B
I don't think so, but I think it's hard. It makes it hard for Trump, like, a little bit like Trump, Trump can't throw him over and he could, I guess he can do whatever he wants, but like, that. It goes fundamentally against his ethos. Never apologize, never give in on anything, never give these people an inch. You know, it begins to open the door to, what do you do about Corey Mills? What do you do about Chuck Edwards?
- [30:03]
C
I have no, I have no, I'm no. No hopes that Trump or expectations Trump will do anything other than show empathy for the guy. And as for Marino, like, I'm not gonna weigh in too heavily on that. I have no earthly clue the extent of the pain and weirdness that he's going through. So I don't want to wait. The person who I think looks like a total doofus and the charlatan is Mike Johnson, the, the pious speaker of the House, a man of great character who can weigh in on anyone else's scandal if they got a D next to her name. This guy, this is in his caucus. This guy's in his caucus, and he's not going to do jack about it. I mean, spare me the, the piety when any other moment, you can't speak out about him or Corey Mills. It's ridiculous.
- [30:46]
B
I, I want to go back to the original point, though, because I agree with Sam about how Trump laid the ground for this, but I want to add another layer to it about the people that are complicit. The people that said that Trump was disqualified and then came around are the ones actually the laid the ground for this, you know, and, and I felt that way. I had a lot of negative feelings that I don't like to refresh on the night of 2016 November. But, like, one of those thoughts was just like, these people don't know what they've wrought. Not only just because whatever Trump does, but because this is now changed how things work forever. Like, things don't exist in a vacuum like this. And, and like, the unintended consequences of this are manifest. We're seeing it throughout the Republican Party. And all these fucking people, like, those people I have the most contempt for, like three that come to mind were on Fox trying to get condescending about Graham Platner, Kevin McCarthy, we take care of our mess. Reince Priebus, we do. You know, Kellyanne ranting. It's just like Reince Priebus and kellyanne and Kevin McCarthy did this to us, did this to the country. Like, they all could have tried. I mean, who knows? Trump could have gone on by, by himself and still won anyway. But, like, they all had agency and they all said Trump was disqualified and then got back on board and then he won. And then they got big jobs and then they got speakerships and now they're rich and famous and they tried to, like, make themselves feel better about their moral failings by, like, wagging their finger at the Democrats and the Democrats maybe deserved a finger wag or two over Graham Platner. But, like, in the end, they, they did what was required, as you said, jvl. And these guys won't do it. And, and they say there are two other House guys that have accusations.
- [32:34]
C
Have any of those three people in the comments section. Please, if you can help us, search us. I know the answer. But have any of those three said a single damn word about Max Miller? Doubt it.
- [32:44]
A
Can't imagine what a horrible human being. Well, you know, maybe someday we'll get to see bad things happen to him, because there's no delicacy in life like watching bad things happen to bad people. It's one of my mantras. I think it's pretty healthy. Tim, did you ever hear that in therapy? Should therapists ever say to you, you know, Tim, if you could just hold out to watch for bad things happening to bad people, that's how you find true peace?
- [33:10]
B
No. You know, it's interesting. I spent a lot of my therapy time working on letting go and. And not letting my resentment at people who. Who were rewarded after doing horrible things consume me. And so a little bit of a different approach.
- [33:28]
A
Different approach.
- [33:29]
C
Which is why you bring it up on the podcast tonight.
- [33:32]
B
Yeah, well, I haven't fully succeeded, so.
- [33:35]
A
Sure, sure.
- [33:36]
B
But it's all. It's all. You know, we're all growing as humans. You know, we are going to.
- [33:41]
A
We're going to talk about something very close in this. In a moment featuring one of my. One of my idols, one of the people I look to as an avatar of what I could be as a journalist, as a. As a leader, as a founder.