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- [00:00]
A
All right, everyone, it's me, Sam Stein, managing at the Bulwark. I'm with Tim Miller and Will Sommer. The Trio back in effect. Tim wanted to have a disclaimer up top.
- [00:08]
B
Yeah, Just a little programming note for people. There will be body and sexual themes in the Trio video, as usual, and I will give personal sexualized thoughts. Here's the thing. Sometimes I've just gotten some feedback from people who I think are very excited. Bullard. Consumers are consuming everything. And I get it. It's a little jarring. My guest on today's podcast is Ann Applebaum. It's like, one minute you're with Ann Applebaum, you're Autocracy. You're talking about what's happening in the Venezuela transfer of power. Then the next minute you're talking about gay three ways at a Turning Point USA event or whatever. Meth addicts who are encouraging short Nazis to run for president. It's a dramatic change. And so for some people, it's a little jarring. And so just. That is why we're working on a jingle for the trio. We're working on a jingle. And so when you hear the jingle, you'll know, am I up for this right now? Am I in the mood for an NC17 themed sitcom, or do I want Ben Parker and Mark Hertling on command post discussing matters of war? And so that way, it can kind of be a signpost for people.
- [01:15]
A
Like a Pavlovian response when you hear that jingle. I guess if we're in the mode of doing sort of disclaimers and we're talking about people who might be uncomfortable with the content, I should reveal this was not a trio thing. It was with Will. I got some feedback about making fun of how fat the Neo Nazi Proud Boys were at the Delaney Hall. They're carrying cookies. And I made fun of their. Their rotund physiques.
- [01:37]
B
Chris Christie was out there.
- [01:40]
A
No, but people were heavy. And I made fun of it. And not only did I get some negative feedback, my parents called me to admonish me about it. And they said it was wrong. Yes, they said it was wrong. And I said to them, well, look, these people are Neo Nazi ish. And they judge me by my looks. Can I judge them by their looks? And they. They said, no, people don't. You shouldn't do that. They're. You're better than them. And I said, I'm not. And then they said, but you are. And we raised you that way. And so I just.
- [02:06]
B
Well, I'm sorry, Mr. And Dr. You shouldn't be sorry. And these fat bodies that are out there trying to make us into a white nationalist country trying to see their own dicks. No, there's no amends to be had. And they should get on GLP1s and expect and accept that we're in a pluralistic society. That's all. It's nothing against that if you're a good person. Again, I've said this before when I've gotten this feedback, I'm like, if I make fun of Steven Miller for being a noodle armed pussy, as a fellow noodle armed pussy, I don't take offense at that. It's a specific attack on a specific person because they're a bad person. So I think if we attack a bad person for a trait that they have and you happen to share that trait, that's not an attack on you. Don't take it personal.
- [02:50]
A
Oh, I, I don't think I'm heavy set like those guys, but whatever. All right. We're going to be talking about Will's a variety of Will items, including the fact that the FBI may be on his trail. And Will, I don't know how you feel about this. When I saw this Tweet. So the FBI's Rapid Response Arm tweeted at Will over a piece that he did about how the FBI is inserting itself into these MAGA civil wars, which they are doing. So there you have it. So the tweet. There's the tweet. Well, when I saw it, I got a little anxious and at first I was like, go get him, FBI. But then I was like, maybe I shouldn't encourage. Maybe I shouldn't encourage them. So, Will, how does it feel to be told by the FBI that you are just a clickbait paywall journalist?
- [03:27]
C
Yeah, clickbait scum. I mean, this is a case where, you know, I wrote in false flag on Monday about this case where the FBI has. Has kind of waded into the MAGA civil war. There's this woman named Elizabeth Lane from the. The post Soviet collapse. She's from Georgia, the Republic of Georgia. And she's kind of on Candace's side. And then she said, well, I'm using an FBI database to look up my en. And then someone said at FBI, like help. And the FBI said, we're looking into it. And so this was me saying, you know, they're kind of playing in getting into politics here. And they said, you know, well, we got to investigate our database or what have you even cash weighed in? Cash said FBI Strong, you know? And for me, I mean, I just said, like. I was like, well, it seems like if you're announcing it publicly before you have any charges, it seems a little political. And then they just shot back with a Jim Carrey GIF that said, like, are you going to cry about it?
- [04:20]
A
Well, why don't you cry about it? Yeah.
- [04:21]
B
Are you going to cry about it?
- [04:23]
C
Well, I might. I mean, I do think I was really like, oh, man, I can't get into a protracted back and forth with the FBI. And then when they just instantly went to the gif, I was like, all right, I guess I won. I think it's over.
- [04:37]
B
Yeah. This is one of those things where it's like, on the one hand, you don't want the FBI really getting into your business, just as a general rule of thumb. On the other hand, this has been one of the things. One of the areas where the administration has exceeded my expectations, which was I thought that Cash Patel was going to be really creating a lot of trouble for regime opponents and going through kind of like Bill Pulte had with mortgage documents. I was expecting Cash to go through everybody's history. Any outstanding warrants? Did you forget to pay your parking tickets? That kind of thing. We're going to try to find things. We're going to take things out of context and make it seem like you're a criminal. The types of things you see in authoritarian countries. And Cash has just been unable to do that. And what he has been effective at is getting drunk as well as doing these sort of kind of cheeky games where it's like, ooh, the FBI is gonna dunk on you on social media. And it's like, I guess that's where I'd rather the FBI be. Ideally, I'd like the FBI to be going after actual criminals, but short of that, if they're not gonna do that, I think like, dunking on Will or attempting to dunk on Will and failing on social media with Jim Carrey gifts like that is. That is superior to, like, you know, maybe some of the more pernicious things they could have been doing.
- [05:57]
A
Well, it's all well and good until Will ends up locked. Locked up in the prison.
- [06:02]
C
You know, I will say, I did not love getting that notification on my phone. I was talking to my wife. We were, like, getting the kids out the door. And then I looked and I said, the FBI is mad at me, it would seem.
- [06:13]
A
And the fact that Cash responded himself, I mean, come on.
- [06:16]
C
Well, Cash, I. I think Cash maybe runs this account himself, this rapid response. Because as we got into. In this, this newsletter or excuse me, this account will go like, it'll just post a video of cash and they'll be like, America's director has done it again. And then he just responds like, emoji, flame emoji.
- [06:33]
A
He. If I actually did look at his challenge, I forget, I forget it was the personal one or his professional one. But he's retreating so much hockey stuff right now, like non stop hockey tweets. And it's just like, you gotta just do your job. Though I will say it's been a. It's been a nice week for cash. He didn't come across too well. Just let me make my case. He didn't come across like, too villainous and inconsequential in the Maggie Haberman Jonathan Swan expose. I mean, he was like, mad, but it wasn't. But Dan Bongino, like, I'm gonna rip up the White House furniture.
- [07:06]
B
And he didn't make it to the Situation Room. I'm not sure if it was because he was visiting the Honolulu field office or if he was too hungover or if he's watching his girlfriend's country music concert.
- [07:15]
A
Well, that brings me to my. That brings me to my second thing, which is this. Is this came in through our tips line, which I appreciate, all the people pointing this out. His girlfriend, the country music sensation Alexis Wilk, get a performance gig for a 250th anniversary party. An invitation only party. It just so happens that her performance is in Brussels. Not in the United States, but she's going to be in Brussels. It appears on stage at their invitational anniversary party. So congrats to her.
- [07:44]
B
Wow.
- [07:45]
C
It's amazing. I mean, it's the biggest stage in the world. The Brussels. The Brussels embassy party.
- [07:52]
B
Was Carrie Underwood not available?
- [07:55]
A
Look, they're having trouble booking anybody, so I feel like there are more opportunities for it, but Brussels, it's not the worst place to go. Well, you have another story out today. Twofer. A real banger. Greg Bovino, our little miniature neo Nazi, ex border patrol official. He is a neo Nazi. He was. He was palling around. Was in Portugal with actual neo Nazis. He's gonna run, or at least he's open to running in 2028. He's been retweeting this website that just popped up in late May pushing him to be a candidate. He put out a statement saying all options are on the table. Obviously, I don't think he's gonna run. He's probably just doing this for some publicity. I. I would be surprised.
- [08:35]
B
He's more of a serious candidate than Herman Cain. R.I.P.
- [08:40]
A
that's true. Well, there's one reason to suggest that it might not be a serious dalliance, which is that the person behind him is dealing with a motel incident in which he apparently got into a row with police officers, refused to leave, and was discovered with meth. So, Will, who is this guy?
- [08:58]
B
Yeah, so this is a row or a row?
- [09:00]
A
A row. I always mispronounce it.
- [09:02]
C
A row.
- [09:03]
A
That's the new word.
- [09:05]
C
This is a guy named Jacob Engels, a character I have dealt with for many years. He was Roger Stone protege, Laura Loomer buddy, Jacob Wohl buddy. But more recently, he has kind of fallen out with that world because he did not get a Trump world sort of affiliated patronage job. And so he's up in Wisconsin, apparently living out of at least one motel at some point. And basically he got busted. You know, according to police, they say he had meth on him. They say he had some pills on him. And so that's. That's where we're at. I mean, so even as he's running the Bovino exploratory team that Bovino has now endorsed, he's facing a felony meth charge.
- [09:45]
B
And you acquired the police report for this?
- [09:47]
C
I did, I did. You know, someone texted me a few weeks ago and said, jacob just got busted at a hotel with meth. And I said, what? And so I had it. And I was kind of thinking about it and I was like, how do I want to use this? Whatever. Well, Jacob, I mean, how much is he around anymore? And then I. So he's kind of been issuing these sort of, I would say, erratic communiques. He's been appearing on shows like Stu Peters and saying Laura Loomer's transgender and all this kind of crazy stuff. And so I was like, well, how do I want to use this? And then obviously, the Bovino thing really took off, and I thought, oh, okay, this is relevant now.
- [10:22]
B
Huh? Well, so you've been sitting on this bombshell.
- [10:26]
A
Yeah.
- [10:27]
B
A couple weeks now is what you gotta get news like that angles meth, Methamphetamine, I gotta tell you, is not. It's not a high class narcotic. You know, if you're getting into the meth space, you're not doing a lot of sleeping well. You don't have a lot of the. You don't have the resources.
- [10:46]
A
Yeah. This was you. This was in the piece, Tim, Because Engels is upset that he's getting criticized for his meth use when there are others in the space. Clavicular. Who is using it in getting away with, like, adulation.
- [10:59]
C
Well, in fairness to clavicular, he does say. He said, well, why can't. Why can clavicular smoke meth and I get in trouble for it.
- [11:05]
A
In defense to angles. He said that?
- [11:07]
C
Yes. Yeah. Well, and then, you know, in defense of angles, I mean, but also in defensive clavicular. I mean, you know, people talk about the meth a lot with clavicular. You know, that wasn't something that kind of just went away quickly.
- [11:17]
B
Yeah, you're in a motel. I mean, again, it's hard to compare him to clavicular. The world's leading looks maxer, who is a partial club owner who's kind of living the high life. You're getting tackled by cops at a motel with methamphetamine in your pocket. It's just, you know, context is meaningful in these sorts of situations when you're assessing them. I will say clavicular just as an aside. I hate the rhinoplasty. I hate it. Yeah, he got a nose job. His nose is tiny now. And he's going, we're heading down a Michael Jackson trajectory.
- [11:50]
A
Oh, no.
- [11:50]
B
With clavicular right now.
- [11:51]
A
I've not seen a recent.
- [11:52]
B
I don't like it at all. I'm concerned about his mental health. He was very handsome before with a regular mid plus size nose, which is perfectly nice. And now he's got like a little tiny nose and it's concerning. I'm concerned, that's all.
- [12:09]
C
I'm with you, Tim. I'm hoping that the rhinoplasty will settle. I feel like sometimes these things look a little weird initially. But in his chats, people have been saying, like, I think this guy named Dr. Miami did it. And they're like, you need to sue Dr. Miami. He busted your nose. And clavicular is like, no, my nose is fine.
- [12:31]
B
Yeah. The pratfalls of looks maxing. You know, this is why you're trying to build a connection with an audience like we do, you know, based on candor, based on honesty, based on deep principle and a united mission. If you base it just on things on the surface, as you age, we all start to. Not Will, obviously. Will's kind of glow up. But most people, they start to clavicular is like 24. He's already over the hill, I guess is what I'm saying, based on the
- [13:06]
A
rhinoplasty, he's aged too fast. He's like, he'd barely be able to. Well, well, you were going to say something before.
- [13:12]
C
Oh, I was just going to say just to sort of finish the wrap up, set the scene for the Jacob Engels arrest. Since we were talking about like high class Matthews and, you know, maybe other otherwise Matthews. So the. The cops were called. This was after Jacob had had a fight with his mom at the motel. And then he's refusing to leave. The next day, he's kind of arguing with the receptionist. And they say Jacob used the following language. I think he called the police or someone else. Motherfucker queer. Okay, okay. And a double jointed pussy. And you know, and that is the kind of thing, you see it in the police report. And you go, wow, this must have been quite a scene.
- [13:47]
A
What the fuck?
- [13:49]
B
I might take. I might use that.
- [13:50]
A
Not the worst. Maybe I'm revealing too much. And we could cut this out if you don't want to talk about it. But you said Jacob contacted you today to, you know, we got a couple small little factoids.
- [14:02]
B
Wrong.
- [14:02]
A
But he also. You said he loved the story.
- [14:04]
C
Yeah, he's been very supportive of the story. He said he's happy to be like the GOP's, like Tiger King or whatever with the meth connection. I mean, he's certainly a colorful character. If I could just. One other Jacob story briefly. There was one time back when we were at the Daily Beast, Jacob wanted to meet up at Russia House, which is a bar, kind of Russian themed. And I said, oh, sure. And he shows up with this guy and this guy's really drunk and on the table, I can see it's the iPhone recording app. And he's saying things like, wouldn't you say the Daily Beast is always unfair to Republicans and stuff? And I was like, this guy's. This guy's trying to James o' Keefe me. And then the guy's like, oh, what? And then I. Jacob was like, oh, I hope he won't leave. I didn't know he was going to do that. And I said, the Vibe. The Vibe has been killed by this attempted project.
- [14:51]
A
So maybe not the smartest operative behind the VINO operation. Which leads me to think it might not go particularly far. But you never know. You never know. Corey Lewandowski ran Donald Trump's campaign. That worked.
- [15:03]
B
If you told me right now that you're from the future and either Greg Bovino or Nikki Haley are the Republican 2028 nominee, I would. I'll put all my chips on. Oh, yeah.
- [15:13]
A
But those aren't the only choices. But yes, I would do the same. There's another item in the newsletter which has us tickled, which is the newest insult among MAGA women is to just tell their hated rivals that their husbands are gay. This seems to be popping up all over the place. And the recent one is involving a Maha influencer. Can you get into that, Will?
- [15:31]
C
Yeah, sure. So, so this is a, this is one about sort of like the folkways of the right wing media women. I mean, I think basically there's this example is this woman named Alex Clark who is a kind of Maha podcaster for Turning Point usa. She's like a very influential figure, but for a while she's only 33. But she. People have said, well, if you're so trad. If you're so. If you want to like run in fields of grain with your kids or whatever, why aren't you married and why don't you have a kid? And she said, you know, this has been something she's grappled with. And so then she gave a speech at this convention and she said, you know, this is about your season of singleness and you know, don't feel abandoned by God, you know, when you are as old as me, 33. And then she said, but guess what, it's all changed because I'm engaged now. And she brings out her boyfriend or her now fiance. And now the thing is with all these, whenever one of these right wing media women unveils their husband or fiance, it's like the standards. If it's not like a SEAL Team six guy, everyone's like, this guy is gay. You know, I mean, he looks like a normal straight guy. And so now this became a big controversy.
- [16:34]
B
Normal, say, well, normal.
- [16:36]
C
Well, maybe not normal. Let me qualify that.
- [16:39]
A
Can we put up the picture? He looks kind of nerdy.
- [16:43]
C
As soon as I saw his face, I was like, it's over for them because he's giving. He has a soy face as they say. You know, he's like a guy. He doesn't look like, like a huge hulking man.
- [16:54]
B
The Rock is pretty impressive though. So it's unlike the past scandals we discussed.
- [17:01]
C
I saw some people saying, saying that he, he, you know, Alex Clark could learn from others mistakes about posting a small engagement ring.
- [17:09]
B
Yes. He looks a little straighter in the other pictures. I feel like our photo editor chose the gayest one to, to put in the newsletter. And I'm more, I'm. Do we have a homophobic photo editor? Was that intentional?
- [17:26]
C
Will chose the photo.
- [17:27]
B
Okay, well, I see what you're doing.
- [17:30]
C
That was the one Alice Clark put out, I think. I think that was her. The one they promoted.
- [17:34]
A
So.
- [17:34]
C
So then people like Candace, who obviously, because this woman works for Turning Point, she's Candace's enemy, they start going through and they find things like this clip of this guy as a barista, and he claims it was a skit.
- [17:45]
A
Don't understand that. What we do here is art. Oftentimes people comment and they're like, they don't understand.
- [17:54]
C
So he comes off with, like, a very effeminate way. And then they also have this mashup of Alex Clark saying, like, we need to return to masculinity. We need real meatheads to save America. And then they kind of compare that to her fiance, who's a champion fiddle player, not the most masculine of instruments, and all these other things.
- [18:13]
B
So this new guy, I want to get to Candace's husband in a second, but this new guy, I guess I'm just visiting his sub stack titled Running on Butter.
- [18:22]
A
Is that really the sub stack?
- [18:23]
C
Yeah, it's like a wellness thing about Running on Butter.
- [18:27]
B
The sub thing is that that it's holistic health for.