Death & Deceit in Alliance | 9. The Others

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Burden – Death & Deceit in Alliance

Episode 9: The Others

Host: Orbit Media | Maggie Freleng
Investigators: John Hardin, Danny Waxler
Date: December 23, 2025

---

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode continues the live re-investigation into the 1999 murder of Yvonne Layne in Alliance, Ohio, for which David Thorne remains imprisoned. Host Maggie Freleng, alongside investigators John Hardin and Danny Waxler, sifts through alternative suspects, seeking credible leads. Their aim is not just to prove David Thorne’s innocence, but to discover the true killer—highlighting the entangled relationships, suspicious police conduct, and the cascade of secrets that defined Yvonne’s world.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting Persons of Interest

• The team reviews their list of key people “on the periphery” of the murder, including:
  • Jim (Neighbor): Last known person to see Yvonne alive.
  • Jeremy Petty: Close family friend and caregiver to Yvonne's special-needs son.
  • Continued issues with getting access to “Joe,” whose confession played a pivotal role.

2. Investigation Into Jim, the Neighbor

Timestamps: 05:52–11:15

• Alibi Review:

  • Jim claimed he last saw Yvonne at 5:30pm; was ostensibly on a bike ride until work at 10pm.
  • This left a substantial window (5:30–10:00pm) unaccounted for on the night of the murder.

• Police Interest:

  • Jim was one of the few to be fingerprinted, suggesting heightened police scrutiny.
  • The partial print on the kitchen-set knife did not match him.

• Interview Dynamics:

  • Initially very reluctant, Jim shared that Yvonne “was a nice person,” and repeated he wanted to forget the event.
  • He described the street as “eerily quiet” that evening:

    "It was so doggone quiet. I mean, it was like there was no cars... Nothing. Nothing. I didn't see anything. I'm kind of like the non-observant of the non-observant." ([09:21])

  • Despite not wanting to talk, Jim mentioned helping with neighborhood kids and confirmed Yvonne’s friendly reputation.

• Assessment:

  • The team saw no motive or violent history with Jim, moving him “to the bottom of the list for now.”
  • Maggie notes, “It seems whoever did this had an incredible amount of rage... Jim doesn’t.” ([11:15])

3. Locating & Interviewing Jeremy Petty

Timestamps: 13:56–31:13

• Background:

  • Jeremy was a key caregiver for Vinnie, Yvonne's son; had been close to Yvonne through Linda (Vinnie’s grandmother).
  • Family and acquaintances described a pattern of drug use, erratic behavior, and past threats (including threats referencing throat-slitting—the same manner as Yvonne’s death).

• Initial Difficulties:

  • Interview attempts at known addresses failed.
  • His sister described serious drug problems and said she hadn’t seen him in three years.

• Contact Established:

  • Through a phone call to a seemingly fake number, the team finally locates Jeremy in a run-down house in Akron.
  • Show kindness by bringing him food, as he is very ill and dying of cancer.

• The Interview:

  • Jeremy describes a platonic relationship with Yvonne:

    “Contrary to beliefs, a man can't have a female [friend] without being sexually involved.” ([20:27])

  • He admits they did drugs together but only hung out at Linda’s house, not at Yvonne’s.
  • Discusses Yvonne’s uncharacteristic stress and hurried behavior days before her death.

    “She was frantic dropping the kids off. She told him she was going to an appointment... That was unusual.” ([26:54])

  • Expresses sincere grief and remorse:

    “It hurt me. It hurt me. You know, somebody I could talk to... Be open about what's going on.” ([25:45])

  • Asserts he doesn't believe David Thorne was responsible:

    “I don't believe he did either. I really don't.” ([28:07])

  • Shares suspicion of police involvement:

    “For some reason, I don't know why, but police were involved.” ([28:19])

• Police Investigation of Jeremy:

  • Notes that prints were collected and that he was allegedly alibied by work records and the fact he didn’t drive.
  • Linda, his partner, apparently picked him up from work that night.

• Assessment:

  • Despite Jeremy’s criminal record and family tensions, investigators felt he had no motive and was sincere in his grief, moving him off their main suspect list.
  • Noted that “people in this town do not trust the cops. And maybe there's a good reason.” ([30:37])

4. Unraveling Secrets and Next Leads

Timestamps: 31:13–32:22

• Investigators sense that Yvonne “had so many secrets”—relationships, possible blackmail involving a cop, and rumors of sex tapes.
• Jeremy reflects:

  “It's like three phases that I know of her life. She was dating a cop. They said they thought she was pregnant, and she probably tried to blackmail the daddy. I knew that she would tell people she was pregnant and then ask for money for an abortion. That's how she would send money to Eric when he was in the joint.” ([31:37]) “She has some dark sides to her.” ([32:05])

• This suggests their next step will be looking into the local police and Yvonne’s ties to them.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the investigation’s philosophy:

  “If David is ever going to be released from prison, it won’t be because his supporters prove he didn’t kill his girlfriend, Yvonne Lane. It’ll be because we figure out who actually did.”
  — Maggie Freleng ([02:13])

• Jim’s description of the night of the murder:

  “It was so doggone quiet... No cars, nothing. Nothing. I didn’t see anything. I’m kind of like the non-observant of the non-observant.”
  — Jim, Neighbor ([09:21])

• Reluctance and weariness:

  “I don't want to think about it any further. I don't want to relive this. I want to just put it behind me. She’s a nice person and I just want to put it behind. I want to forget it.”
  — Jim, Neighbor ([10:23])

• Jeremy on his relationship with Yvonne:

  "Contrary to beliefs. A man can't have a female plate. I'm being sexually involved."
  — Jeremy Petty ([20:27])

• Jeremy openly grieving:

  "Oh, it got me. It hurt me. It hurt me. You know, somebody I could talk to who talk to me and be at that point. I'd be open about what's going on. Not personal. Will involve like that."
  — Jeremy Petty ([25:45])

• On police distrust:

  "For some reason, I don't know why, but police were involved."
  — Jeremy Petty ([28:19])

• On Yvonne’s secrets and methods:

  “She would tell people that she was pregnant and then ask for money for an abortion. That's how she would send money to Eric when he was in the joint... She has some dark sides to her.”
  — Jeremy Petty ([31:37–32:05])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:52–11:15: Jim the Neighbor, his role, alibi, and reluctant interview
• 13:56–17:22: Search for Jeremy Petty, family’s perspective, drug issues
• 17:22–28:44: Interview with Jeremy—background, bond with Yvonne, views on David’s guilt, suspicions of police
• 31:13–32:22: Yvonne’s secrets emerge, links to police and possible blackmail

---

Tone & Narrative

The tone is investigative, at times somber, with a strong undercurrent of frustration at the lack of clear evidence and the pervasive distrust of the Alliance police. Maggie’s narration is empathetic and candid, highlighting the emotional toll on both interviewees and those investigating.

---

Conclusion

The episode methodically crosses off two major alternate suspects—Jim and Jeremy—on the basis of character, alibi, and lack of motive while deepening the sense that Yvonne’s murder may be linked to her secretive interactions with men in power, perhaps even within law enforcement. The episode closes with the promise to dig deeper into Yvonne's complicated web of relationships, especially those involving the local police.

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[Tide Commercial Announcer]

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it. Even in cold butter. Yep. Chocolate ice cream. Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be tied.

[IBM AI Advertisement Speaker]

So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage? On top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business. Lets create smile to business. IBM.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Becker, Snafeeza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more. Take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two sponsored by Samsung Galaxy tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Max previously on Death and deceit in.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Alliance Spent a lot of time on that and I guess One question is $300 to murder a woman in cold blood.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

The reason David Thorne is sitting in jail right now is someone that you acknowledge is a fucking liar.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

I know that the allegations are out there that even some in the police force were taking advantage of Yvonne's services. If that's in fact what was happening.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

There's a full blown declaration that they went after three friends of David's that they approached first and tried to coerce them into testifying against David. There are things that make you say, well why is he staying at a freaking hotel in town that night?

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

You know, right off the bat a couple of things that raised my eyebrows are the knife in the pants. How did Joe lead them to the. What were the circumstances And Joe did lead them there, then that's a big deal.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

This is death and deceit. An alliance, a real time investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane. I'm Maggie Freeling. After the jury came back in January 2000 with a guilty verdict against David Thorne, his grandfather tried to sound calm. The truth will come out sooner or later, he told the grandson he'd raised as guards led David Thorne away to prison. But David Koscisko's claim was a facade. Outside of the courtroom, Koszisko started to shake with anger. His face went red when he saw Detective Lloyd Bud Sampson, one of the cops whose testimony had condemned David for life. Kosciuszko told an Akron Bikran Journal reporter, quote, there's the one who made a fool out of himself on the stand. And they believed him. Now, I can't ask Kosciusko his thoughts because he died in 2015, but to me, it seems like he wanted to have David's back, but knew deep down that it was going to take a lot more than just the truth to free David. And 21 years later, I think he's right. If David is ever going to be released from prison, it won't be because his supporters prove he didn't kill his girlfriend, Yvonne Lane. It'll be because we figure out who actually did. When I met up in Ohio with John Hardin and Danny Waxler, the investigators for Proclaim justice, one of the first things we did was try to rule in, in or out are people of interest in the case. The guys didn't start with Joe right away. His story has changed so many times, it's hard to know what to believe. They decided to reach out to him later and gather as much information about the case as possible before trying to talk to him. Plus, the warden at Joe's prison denied our visitation request. Speaking with Joe was going to be harder than we expected. So we started with Rose Moore and Chris Campbell, allegedly the people who Joe told he was going to murder someone that night. But as you heard last episode, we didn't get anything new. So we moved on to the others on our list, starting with Jim, the neighbor who was the last known person to see Yvonne just before her murder. If the coroner is correct, around 5:30pm the coroner's window for time of death was sometime after 7:00pm, March 31st. Remember, Jim said he went over to see the puppies that Yvonne was selling, although it's unclear if he ever did go inside the house to see them after that. Jim never had a particularly solid alibi for the time after 5:30. He said he went on a bike ride after leaving Yvonne's house and then was at work by 10pm but was he actually on a bike ride? That would have been hard to confirm back in 1999, and it's straight up impossible now. So that leaves quite a gap of time from 5:30 to 10:00pm unaccounted for. And there's also, Yvonne's four year old Vinnie saying Josh, Jimmy or Jeremy pushed mommy. The kids knew Jim since he was in the neighborhood and they were always running in and out of his yard. We don't know if Jim was looked at as a possible suspect by detectives William Mucklow and Bud Sampson. Yet it does seem they found him interesting enough to fingerprint and compare to the partial print found on the knife blade matching Yvonne's kitchen set. The knife found down the street, not the lock blade, pocket knife that Joe said was the murder weapon. The print on the kitchen knife didn't match Jim. However, it begs the question, did anyone think Jim might have been involved if the police went as far as to fingerprint him, it's not likely they were printing everyone. Some people closest to Yvonne were never printed. But Jim, the neighbor who is the last known person to see Yvonne alive, was. So we figured it was time to talk to him. Fortunately, Jim was easy to find.

[IBM AI Advertisement Speaker]

Her.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Yeah, he's still living in the same house that touches the yard of 916 Divine, the home where Yvonne was murdered. When we first went over to Jim's, his wife answered.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Sorry to bother you.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

I'm Danny.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

I'm Danny Waxler.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

They asked to speak with Jim.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

We were hoping we could speak to him and kind of.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Oh, we could do the morning too. That would be fine.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

So we tried him in the morning.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

How tall are you?

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Yeah.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Thank you.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Guess we can't make him answer the door.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

As John and Danny walked away.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

I don't want to talk about that. That happened over 20 years ago. And as far as I'm concerned, that's not a no for me.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yes, sir. I don't know if your wife told you who we are, but we were just hoping for just a few minutes.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

They tell him who they are and that they're re investigating the Yvonne Lane murder.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

There was a lady that came here years ago and I talked to her and I feel that that should suffice. I mean, that was like 20 years ago. That probably some. I don't know.

[Public Investing Advertisement Speaker]

It's.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

I don't know if it's 20 years.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

He's talking about sue coming to see him almost two decades ago.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

So I really don't want to talk about it any further than that.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Okay.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

I mean, she was, to me, I thought she was a nice person and I don't, you know, she was a nice neighbor. We, you know, the people seem to get along with her here. And so beyond that point. I don't want to talk about it. It's like it was. I was upset about it at the time.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah, sure.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

And you know, she was. She was nice to me and that's all I know.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

So, yeah, we, you know, we were just hoping for a couple minutes.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

One of the toughest things is that I think that lady that came to visit you, when they give us information, just because they said this, this or this or this, we have to kind of go validate it, like I thought bad enough. No, I get that. And if we didn't at least speak to you, we would have failed in doing what we're trying to do, which is try and say, hey, who was there? Who could possibly know something. If David's where he belongs, David's where he belongs. But we're going to give him a shot and see if there's credible information that maybe they got it wrong.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jim says he doesn't want to talk again, but Danny and John keep going.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

I guess she had puppies or something at the time.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Yeah, she had puppies at the time and that.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Were you helping with the kids at all? Because I read something about Preston was in your tree or something.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Preston climbed my antenna. And I told her he climbed my antenna because I was real worried about him climbing my antenna.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

And despite not wanting to talk, Jim keeps going.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

The only thing I can tell you was that day, and this is the most bizarre thing, it was so doggone quiet. I mean, it was like there was no cars going down the street. I didn't see anybody walking the streets. And that's what strikes me strange is why you would think that it was a nice and beautiful spring day. No cars, nothing. Nothing. I didn't see anything. I'm kind of like the non observant of the non observant. I mean, I close my curtains at night. I work midnight shift at that time. So I really don't, you know, don't know much of anything that went on over there. Like I said, I felt bad about it. I really don't want to talk about it beyond this point because I. Because I work third shift and that's all I pretty much. I'm like, I'm so dog gone tired, you know, there, you know, I really don't know what's going on because I like said I went to work and then next day I find out something that I don't even know what's going on.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Is there an officer that lived near here in one of these houses?

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Well, I don't really want to get into all that. I mean, like I said, this is end of this conversation. I mean, I feel like I've shared enough with you.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

I just want to. I don't want to think about it any further. I don't want to relive this. I. I want to just put it behind me. She's a nice person and I just want to put it behind. I want to forget it.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

But they tried to continue.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

I know you've got family and law enforcement.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Right.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Mr. Jenkins is a captain there and I know that sometimes.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Well, hey, I gotta go. You guys have a great day, okay?

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Thank you. Jim.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

That was it. I'm surprised he opened the door if all he was gonna say is I'm not gonna.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

We were walking away.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

I know, but he probably thought they're gonna keep coming.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Nervous little.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah, he was a nervous.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

But I'm not gonna talk about you. Get him to the porch. You got. Got a little bit out of him. Yeah.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jim didn't give them anything particularly useful from that brief interaction. But just seeing him and the kind of person he was helped them form an opinion. He didn't jump out as an obvious suspect. The reason I keep bringing up how brutal the crime is is because it seems whoever did this had an incredible amount of rage and anger towards Yvonne. Someone who is likely known to have a violent history. And Jim doesn't. And we couldn't think of any reason he'd violently want to kill Yvonne. So the guys moved Jim to the bottom of the list for now and went on to the next best person of interest, someone Vinnie may have named.

[IBM AI Advertisement Speaker]

So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage. On top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages. Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business. Let's create Smarto. IBM.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more are back to ren redefine the game. Unrivaled basketball season two sponsored by Samsung Galaxy tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Public Investing Advertisement Speaker]

Max support for the show comes from public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities. Completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra. SIP Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures hi.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

How are you? We're looking for Jeremy. Does he live here?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

No, he does not.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

He does not.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Okay.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

He did. Okay. Are you. Do you know him?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Very roughly.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Okay. You have any idea where he moved to?

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

No.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Okay.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Like Chris Campbell, Jeremy seemed like he was going to be hard to find. Now, if you remember, Jeremy was the boyfriend of Linda McLaughlin, and Linda was the mother of Eric Cameron, who was the father of three of Yvonne's children. Those three kids include Vinnie, who had special needs and lived with Linda rather than Yvonne. And there was tension between the two women because of this. And I know this is a complicated cast, but the gist is that Jeremy was something like a grandfather to Vinnie during this time period, or maybe even a father. Jeremy was in his mid-40s at the time, and he was at Linda's house almost every day, and he helped with raising Vinnie.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Hi.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

How are you? Good.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Looking for Jeremy Petty? Yeah.

[Jeremy Petty]

That's Uncle Jeremy.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Is he here?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

He don't.

[Public Investing Advertisement Speaker]

He's in this neighborhood somewhere.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Your brother?

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

What?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jeremy.

[Jeremy Petty]

Good luck with that.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

The woman we found at this address is Jeremy's sister, who said she had not seen him in three years.

[Jeremy Petty]

Rather do meth and give her a decent life.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

I tried to help. He lived here and I knew there was something wrong. I said, jeremy, what is wrong?

[Jeremy Petty]

Are you on drugs?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

He said, I'm not doing it here. I said, I'm not going to be the one finding you dead. You got to move.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah. And that was the last time you saw him? Wow.

[Jeremy Petty]

Came by one time, threatened to slit my throat.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Did you ever know of him being violent?

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

No.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Okay.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Was that a weird statement to make? Because that's exactly how the young girl was killed. Her throat was lit.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Ooh.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

I Think that's. That was just the drugs talking.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Sounds like he's probably burned a few bridges over the years. Okay.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

I knew he was in Firestone Park.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

We just left there.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yep.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Obviously at the meth house over there.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Is it? Yeah.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

That's all that Akron's turning into these days.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Well, thank you for your time. And again, if he surfaces, we just surface here. Put an alert out, too. If you see Jeremy, have him call these guys. We'd greatly appreciate.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate yalls time.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

All right. Sorry to call you.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

We had hit every address we had for Jeremy and he wasn't at any. But there were two phone numbers for him. One wasn't him and the other looked fake, but we tried it anyway.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Hello?

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yes, I'm trying to reach Jeremy Petty. Is this Jeremy?

[Jeremy Petty]

Yes, it is.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Do you have any free time to talk with us?

[Jeremy Petty]

Yeah, I'm kind of. Kind of sick. I've been made up for the past week, but, yeah, you're cool on the work.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Okay. What's your address?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

And we found him.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

The fake number's the one. The 123-4567.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Holy.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

We found him. My God.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

We found Jeremy living in Akron, Ohio, in a dilapidated house on a dirt road behind a U Haul facility.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Hey, Jeremy, how are you?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Danny had a plastic bag in his hand, and Jeremy asked what was in it.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

So when I was sick as a kid, I always got chicken noodle soup and salt teens. Yeah, Snickers and Gatorade make me feel a little better.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Okay, so I'm John.

[Jeremy Petty]

Okay.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

And that's Danny.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Danny Waxler. We're with Proclaim Justice. We're an Innocence Project, and we've been asked to look into David Case.

[Jeremy Petty]

And David's still in prison.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

He is? Yeah, he's in for life as usual.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

John and Danny explained that they're looking into David's case to find out if he's actually innocent.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

So that's what we're doing. We came up from Austin yesterday and just, you know, talking to folks who knew everybody at the time.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jeremy said Yvonne was his best friend. Now, remember, we knew they were close. Yvonne would go to Linda's often to see Vinnie, who was living with Linda and Jeremy. Jeremy is also interesting because, like Preston, another of Yvonne's sons said whoever killed his mom knew Vinny because Vinny was taken care of. He'd been dressed as though someone had started getting him ready for the day. And Vinny couldn't dress himself, and he normally slept in his diaper, which Preston told Us. He was in when he went to bed. And to the guys, Jeremy seemed like a really good person of interest. Yvonne had just taken Vinnie back to her home a few days before the murder, and Linda told Sue that Jeremy was really upset about that. I should note, Jeremy's not well. He's dying of cancer. And honestly, we're lucky we caught him when we did, because based on his age, 64 and advanced condition, this could be the last time anyone speaks to him about Yvonne or the case.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

So.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

What? Tell me about Yvonne. I mean, we. So that's.

[Jeremy Petty]

We just became close because. Because of a kid.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Remember? Jeremy and Eric's mom, Linda, were taking care of Vinnie.

[Jeremy Petty]

Kids. We used to get along Great. I had 13 of them.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

You have 13 of them?

[Jeremy Petty]

Not by the same. Not by the same person.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

How. How did you know her? I mean, how did you meet her? You said earlier she was your best friend.

[Jeremy Petty]

Yeah, I met her, my nurse, Linda and Eric. And she started coming over, and when she had one, one kid, she. Of course, Vinny took right to me.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jeremy says when Yvonne brought Vinnie over, Vinnie took right to him.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

So was that friendship based just on Vinny, or were you and her. Did y' all have your time together, too?

[Jeremy Petty]

Well, we had. You know, she talked to me about what was going on with Eric.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jeremy made very clear that he and Yvonne had a platonic relationship.

[Jeremy Petty]

Contrary to beliefs. A man can't have a female plate. I'm being sexually involved.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Right.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

In fact, he said he had only been to her house two times, but both times with Linda. Jeremy and Yvonne would only hang out at Linda's house, usually in the kitchen, at the table, talking and doing drugs.

[Jeremy Petty]

Tell you how crazy we was. We pull out a Bower's Annex on bars, and we'd sit down at the kitchen table at the house on the Dynamo Road and we'd chug a beer. Pink sand, chug of beer things, dance, see which one pass out for us. Who? You know the best one who would pass out for us?

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Is she just popping pills or smoked.

[Jeremy Petty]

On weed and bracelet?

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Yeah.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

So where would you guys get the drugs from? I mean, did she have somebody that she would get drugs from that she did?

[Jeremy Petty]

And of course, I got my. I had legally from va.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

If you couldn't make that out, he said he got his legally from the va. Remember the psychic's prediction? The killer had been in the military. Jeremy is a veteran. And remember, the psychic also said the killer had a cross tattoo. Jeremy has a cross on his upper arm.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah. Do you know who it was that she was getting drugs from?

[Jeremy Petty]

No, I didn't believe it.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

John and Danny were trying to see if there was a connection to the cops and the drug scene that Jeremy knew about. He said no. Then they asked Jeremy if the police ever questioned him.

[Jeremy Petty]

The investigators came through McDonald's, where I was working at.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

So even though there's no record of it, they did look into Jeremy. Allegedly. In fact, his prints were also collected on April 20 and tested against the same kitchen knife. Jim's were no match. And if the police were doing their job, they would have also checked his alibi. Jeremy said he was working at a McDonald's in Hartville that night. Hartville is about 20 minutes from Alliance. If he did kill Yvonne, Jeremy would have had to leave work during his shift, drive 20 minutes to her house and kill her, dress Vinnie and drive back. He would probably have been gone from work for over an hour and someone would have noticed. Assuming the police did their job, they checked his time cards when they showed up at McDonald's that day. And one more thing. Jeremy didn't drive. Linda said she picked him up that night. In fact, it seems like Jeremy still doesn't drive. His sister told us she'd see him walking everywhere. John and Danny ask him straight up.

[IBM AI Advertisement Speaker]

So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage? On top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI by to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to business. IBM.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines unrivaled basketball Season 2, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Public Investing Advertisement Speaker]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities. Completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transact transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

You weren't there that night. Your DNA would not be on her clothes at all. Had no involvement whatsoever. Okay.

[Jeremy Petty]

Yeah.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

And from talking to him, he seemed to really care about Yvonne a lot.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

And obviously this is a little personal, but I'm just curious of the emotional effect that Yvonne's death had on you.

[Jeremy Petty]

Oh, it got me. It hurt me. It hurt me. You know, somebody I could talk to who talk to me and be at that point. I'd be open about what's going on. Not personal. Will involve like that.

[IBM AI Advertisement Speaker]

But.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Did she ever confide in you that she felt like she might have upset somebody that could have.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Could hurt her.

[Jeremy Petty]

You know, that she was never afraid. She was never afraid of anybody or anything. She told me that. Told me that time and time again. One thing I do know about Yvonne was she went back down.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jeremy talked about how she was a confident, composed person, but in her last days. He said he noticed a change. Jeremy said four days before the murder, she came to Linda's house and was in a rush. He said that was unusual.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

You could just tell something was wrong that day.

[Jeremy Petty]

I'm never jittery.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

Never.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

He said she was frantic dropping the kids off. She told him she was going to an appointment and Jeremy figured he'd talk to her later about it. But that never happened.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

So that would have been your last encounter with her alive. Wow.

[Jeremy Petty]

That's why I think I blogged myself. Maybe or something I could have done.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Then you could have done.

[Jeremy Petty]

I could have. And I could have some. Something.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Did you go to her funeral? Did you ever see any of the kids again? I'm sorry to lead you back into these memories. I know they're painful, I can tell. But we're trying to figure out what Happened. And I know that someone as close as you, you had to have had a million thoughts run through your head wondering who could have done this to her.

[Jeremy Petty]

A million.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

Yeah. Jalinda has public said before she passed away, David didn't do this. Yeah, David didn't do this.

[Jeremy Petty]

I don't believe he did either. I really don't.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

I mean, 20 years later, what do you think happened?

[Jeremy Petty]

I think the life wish for that.

[Jim (Neighbor)]

I do.

[Jeremy Petty]

I honestly agree with anything for some reason, I don't know why, but police were involved.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Jeremy, we appreciate your time very much and I hope.

[Jeremy Petty]

I hope I helped you.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

Yeah, you for sure did. And you've got our. Our information.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

And have you some chicken? Yeah.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

It was surprising that we left Jeremy with the feeling that he wasn't involved. He'd seemed like a really strong possibility for starters. Jeremy has a record that includes violent crime. His own sister said he threatened to slit her throat the precise way Yvonne had been killed. And he admitted to us he was incredibly fucked up back then. So could he have snapped? But mostly what we've heard about Jeremy is that when he's sober, he's a softie and wouldn't fight anyone. Even the sister he threatened said the threats he made to her were just the drugs. She never knew him to actually be violent though again, there's always the possibility he snapped. But from speaking to him, the guys felt he really cared for Yvonne and had no motive to kill her. Sure, they speculated maybe Jeremy wanted custody of Vinnie, but after talking to him, he told the guys he knew he and Linda were wouldn't get Vinnie even if Yvonne was dead. The children were supposed to and did go to Yvonne's parents after she died. It seemed to us Jeremy cared for Yvonne outside of Vinnie and wouldn't want her dead. But he did confirm a possible drug connection like we had heard from so many people before. His strong suspicion was that the police were could have been involved. And one thing is clear to us, people in this town do not trust the cops. And maybe there's a good reason. Remember, there was a new chief of police at the time of Yvonne's murder. The previous chief was fired for stealing drugs, guns and money. And other cops were implicated too. Clearly it's not just in our heads. There's something up with the Alliance Police. But did they have anything to do with Yvonne's death? We still couldn't shake the psychic tapes and Detectives William Mucklow and Bud Sampson bringing up the possibility that it was one of their own. So it was time to speak with some people who may actually know who Yvonne was involved with back then. It's just so bizarre. It's really. She had so many secrets.

[Jeremy Petty]

I don't know how she kept everything straight.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Coming up, some of Yvonne's secrets start to unravel. Coming up on Death and Deceit in Alliance.

[Danny Waxler (Investigator)]

She had come to you saying she had pissed off the wrong person.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

She had so many secrets.

[Jeremy Petty]

It's like three phases that I know of her life. She was dating a cop. They said they thought she was pregnant and she probably tried to blackmail the daddy. I knew that she would tell people that she was pregnant and then ask for money for an abortion. That's how she would send money to Eric when he was in the joint. I think she was pregnant. She had a belly on her when.

[John Hardin (Investigator)]

I seen her and she would shake them down, say, I'm going to tell your wife or something.

[Jeremy Petty]

She has some dark sides to her.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

What about this sex tape that sue said you filmed?

[Jeremy Petty]

I don't know how she kept everything straight.

[Maggie Freeling (Narrator/Reporter)]

Death and Deceit in Alliance is produced and reported by me, Maggie Freeling with editorial consultants from Amber Hunt. Aaron Case is our legal researcher. Our executive producer is Steve Fishman. Our engineer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Eric Axelrod is our assistant producer.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Season two of unrivaled basketball is here and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher and every athlete shines unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung Galaxy, tips off January 5 on TNT, TruTV and HBO.

[Public Investing Advertisement Speaker]

Max support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures it's the most.

[Valpak Advertisement Speaker]

Wonderful time of the year, and Valpak is here to make it even better. This month as you sip through holiday mail, don't miss the blue Valpak envelope. From dining to holiday shopping, there's a sleigh full of savings in your mailbox, plus a chance to instantly win $100. That's right, you can find $100 Christmas cash inside. Want to save even more money on what you love? Go to valpak.com for local coupons and offers. It pays to open Valpak. No purchase necessary for instant win. VoIP war prohibited prices are randomly inserted. See specially marked Valpak envelopes for details.