Get the Money and Run | Fatal Peril

Summary

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The Burden (Season 4): Get the Money and Run | Fatal Peril

Podcast: The Burden
Host: Orbit Media (Ben Adair, Steve Fishman)
Episode: S4E7 – Fatal Peril
Date: June 10, 2025

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Brief Overview

In the season finale of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, host Ben Adair sits down with Joe Loya, one of Southern California’s most prolific bank robbers, to explore the dark aftermath of his criminal life, his harrowing journey toward self-forgiveness, and the anxieties of adjusting to life after prison. This episode, “Fatal Peril,” confronts the hardest moments Joe faced after release—how he grappled with shame, family reconciliation, and the ever-present threat of falling back into old ways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Return of Conscience in Solitary (02:12–04:30)

• Joe’s time in solitary confinement forces him to confront his past.
  • He describes how shutting down his conscience helped him survive as a bank robber and in prison—but in solitary, it all comes flooding back.
  • Quote: “My conscience just came back with a fury... It dumps it all on you.” — Joe Loya (02:29)
  • He struggles with immense remorse, guilt, and feels "disqualified" from both being a good or a bad person, sinking deep into suicidal thoughts.
  • Quote: “I should probably just, like, save everyone time. Just kill myself. Like, that’s exactly the logic.” — Joe Loya (03:23)

2. Embracing Change & Owning Your Story (04:30–09:06)

• Joe realizes true strength is facing oneself, not projecting toughness.
  • He begins writing about the stories he tells himself and others—identity-defining moments of his life.
  • Quote: “What are the stories I’ve been telling people all my life that mean something to me?... They’re identity stories.” — Joe Loya (05:29)
  • The necessity of “owning your story” to gain self-understanding and to identify which parts of his story are untrue or unhelpful.
  • Joe explains the strange duality: while trying to change inside, he must still project “hyper-maleness” outward for safety in prison.

3. Healing Family Trauma: Joe and His Father (09:06–13:41)

• Joe investigates his own wounds, leading to compassion for his abusive father.
  • By understanding the intergenerational trauma both he and his father experienced, Joe reframes his dad as a wounded person, not a monster.
  • Quote: “He did monstrous things, but he was no longer a monster to me... I did monstrous things, but I wasn’t a monster either.” — Joe Loya (12:47)
  • This realization becomes a key phrase in his recovery and self-forgiveness.

4. First Day Out: Freedom & Unexpected Grief (15:42–20:31)

• Joe recounts the anxiety and emotional weight of reentering society.
  • Describes being processed out of prison, entering a bank for the first time as a free man (ironically, after years as a robber), under the gaze of security cameras.
  • Quote: “I wanted to be known. I wanted to be seen.” — Joe Loya (16:58)
  • Experiencing guilt and the burden of his past after a simple exchange with a cashier triggers a wave of shame and grief.
  • Quote: “I’m so not ready for good people, man. Like, I’m gonna always feel like fucking terrible shit in front of him...” — Joe Loya (19:46)

5. Family Reconciliation: Forgiveness and "Turning the Page" (20:31–21:41)

• Reunion with his father is marked by mutual forgiveness.
  • They agree to cancel out each other’s wrongdoings and start anew.
  • Quote: “Let my fucked up shit cancel out your fucked up shit and then your fucked up shit cancel out my fucked up shit and let’s just start over. Let’s just do that. Boom. Clean slate. Turn the fucking page.” — Joe Loya (21:24)

6. The "Fatal Peril" Moment (24:03–33:25)

• Joe narrates a post-release crisis where he nearly succumbs to old violent impulses.
  • At a café, after a public racial insult from a stranger, Joe’s anger spikes and he instinctively imagines responding with violence.
  • Quote: “My anger flashed from 0 to 100... Can this fork work if I need to? I could stab him in the eye.” — Joe Loya (25:44)
  • Joe describes this as the "moment of fatal peril," a test many parolees face that could end in life reimprisonment if they yield to aggression.
  • He chooses to call his father and brother for help, instructing them to physically prevent him from taking rash action that night.
  • Quote: “Do not let me get up and out of here. Like, I don’t want this to happen. I don’t want to become that.” — Joe Loya (30:32)
  • Together, as a family, they get through the night, ultimately hugging and crying together as the rage fades.
  • The lesson: Leaning on love and support can guide you out of destructive spirals.
  • Quote: “You gotta lean on the love, man. My dad loved me. My brother loved me. I loved them. We're family....In that moment hugging them—man, we had the best home we’d ever had.” — Joe Loya (32:25)

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Notable Quotes

• “My conscience just came back with a fury... It dumps it all on you.”
  — Joe Loya, 02:29

• “I should probably just, like, save everyone time. Just kill myself. Like, that’s exactly the logic.”
  — Joe Loya, 03:23

• “What are the stories I’ve been telling people all my life that mean something to me?... They’re identity stories.”
  — Joe Loya, 05:29

• “He did monstrous things, but he was no longer a monster to me... I did monstrous things, but I wasn’t a monster either.”
  — Joe Loya, 12:47

• “Let my fucked up shit cancel out your fucked up shit and then your fucked up shit cancel out my fucked up shit and let’s just start over. Boom. Clean slate. Turn the fucking page.”
  — Joe Loya, 21:24

• “My anger flashed from 0 to 100... Can this fork work if I need to?”
  — Joe Loya, 25:44

• “You gotta lean on the love, man. My dad loved me. My brother loved me. I loved them. We're family.... In that moment hugging them—man, we had the best home we’d ever had.”
  — Joe Loya, 32:25

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:12] Conscience returns in solitary
• [04:30] Embracing inner change and “owning your story”
• [09:06] Compassion for his father and breaking the cycle of trauma
• [15:42] First day out: freedom, anxiety, and the weight of the past
• [20:31] Reunion and forgiveness with his father: the clean slate moment
• [24:03] The “fatal peril” moment: near relapse into violence, saved by family support
• [32:25] Reflection on the transformative power of love and the new definition of home

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Memorable Moments

• Joe’s detailed visualization of potential violence in a public setting—even after newfound awareness—showcases the intensity of post-incarceration struggle with anger and impulse.
• The pact of mutual forgiveness between Joe and his father poignantly captures the possibility of intergenerational healing.
• The episode closes with a powerful, unspoken acknowledgment that support and vulnerability are as crucial as personal resolve in any journey toward redemption.

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The Burden: Get the Money and Run – Season Finale “Fatal Peril” is a raw, emotional exploration of the price of crime, the possibility of change, and the hard-won hope for healing. Joe Loya’s story is a testament to the realities many face after incarceration—and the vital importance of family, forgiveness, and self-understanding on the long road back.

Transcript

[Joe Loya]

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[Ben Adair]

You are listening to The Burden Season 4, get the Money and Run. I'm Ben Adair and this is episode seven Fatal Peril.

[Joe Loya]

Joe.

[Ben Adair]

We talked about how when you were robbing banks and at the height of your prison Joe Persona, basically cut your conscience off, like totally shut down your sense of morality. Did your conscience then come back when you were in solitary?

[Joe Loya]

Yeah, my conscience just came back with a fury. It woke up like oh okay, we'll show you it all. And it doesn't come back and say, oh we'll protect you, we're gonna only give you a little bit of your shit at one time. It dumps it all on you. And I had stopped kind of growing and being aware like trying to have any self awareness probably around age 11. And now I had done all these terrible adult things, and I had to deal with it with a very fragile conscience, very fragile awareness. And so I instantly, almost instantly, I was like, I can never get back this. I'm disqualified. And now I don't want to go be back, be a bad guy anymore, because that sucks. But now I don't want to go and be a good guy, because that's impossible. So you know what I probably should do? I should probably just, like, save everyone time. Just kill myself. Like, that's exactly the logic. Hmm.

[Ben Adair]

I think disqualified is a really interesting word.

[Joe Loya]

Yeah. I felt like I just didn't have a. I didn't have any right to want to go play in that arena with good people. I knew good people. I had hurt a lot of good people. So the conscience was not kind to me because it did not. It didn't say, oh, we love you, we're going to take care of you. No, man. I was suffocating under the stultifying weight of remorse and grief and shame. What comes up is sometimes down deep in me is that where I remember something. And just the shame and the grief, remorse of who I was just comes up and, yeah, man, that's. That's what it was then.

[Ben Adair]

Part 1. Go for broken.

[Joe Loya]

Joe.

[Ben Adair]

What was scary about that? What was scary about changing?

[Joe Loya]

Well, what I realized was as I started thinking about changing, I realized, oh, fuck, that's hard. I'm fearless about taking people in a vault. I'll go down a heartbeat. I'm fearless about walking in a cell with a knife. I'm fearless all day long about that. I don't want to go inside myself and demand that I change. So I decided to change my idea of strong and weak and say, okay, I've been thinking, I'm strong. I'm actually weak. I want to get strong. How do I get real strong? I'm going to go know myself. I'm going to go. I'm going to go figure this out. Well, I started writing, and then I just got a sheet of paper and I said, mom, what are the stories I've been telling people all my life that mean something to me? They communicate something about me. Oh, I'm brave because of this. Oh, you know what? I'm fearless because of this. We all have stories that we carry in this little box with us, and they are identity stories. They are the stories we use to tell people this is who we are. Because these are stories we tell ourselves of who we are. And so I thought, what are the stories That I tell and have been telling since I was a child about who I am that represent me stabbing my dad at my mother's funeral. Like all the stories, like, what are the stories who make up my sense of identity? And then I would wake up and say, okay, which one do I want to write? That's when I came up with the concept of owning your story. Because you can't know who you are if you don't know the origins of things. You have to realize what parts of your story are wrong, false, don't fit. And that was super helpful. Foreign. Now I'm thinking I gotta be on the line and I don't want guys with me. I gotta like, investigate on the page how to become a nice guy, a good person, soft. And the irony is that in order to give myself the space so nobody would with me so I could be in my cell to like, do all the soft investigation of myself is I had to dial up my Persona on the tier. Like, don't fuck with me, man. Don't you know who I am? I had to continue to perform hyper maleness to get to learn all this time to read and write letters to people and try to change my life.

[Ben Adair]

How difficult was that? To have sort of the two different Personas, One where you're acting tough and then the one where you're trying to, I guess, go. Go soft.

[Joe Loya]

In a way, it was very tough because remember guys. Guys who walk around like they're ready to stab you. It only works if everyone thinks they're gonna. That you will stab them. And I had to do that several times. So I'm like trying to tell myself that that's all ego. That's all ego. Like, you can't. You can't take that stuff personally. So I actually have these, like, real things that are happening. And then I get to try and like, say, okay, so I agree with this new teaching that I'm. That I'm learning and stuff. It makes sense to me. I like it. Theoretically, it makes sense. I'd already been changing my life a little bit with it, so I want to keep leaning into it. But I would plenty times have an opportunity where something would get kicked up in me and then I would get to like, deconstruct it. Like, I was able to start realizing under all these acts of rage or all these acts of indignancy in me, basically what they were, is it was when the rage would come up, it was disguising the fact that I felt wounded. That was the big, big fucking lesson. And this Kept coming up over and over and over again. And being able to develop that distance from the moment is like, okay, I'm going to be able to get out of here. I'm going to be able to stop putting holes in man. Hmm.

[Ben Adair]

Did you start thinking about other people in your life who had traumatized you? I mean, I'm thinking mostly of your dad.

[Joe Loya]

Yeah. So, you know, when I started investigating my wounds, it was like they. All these old child wounds would come up, right? Like, ah, I feel. I see. It's. I'm. I'm remembering this episode from my childhood. That's where it all went back to. And then I was like, oh, shit. My dad, he had a really shitty childhood, just like me. Then I started looking at that and, like, I knew my dad's past. And when he was young, my grandfather used to put him in a chicken coop. My grandfather really was mad at my. Treated my dad like. Like he was the worst kid. He had some deep animosity in my dad. I think my grandfather may have thought that my dad wasn't his. Even so, my dad got treated very badly. Humiliated, humiliated, humiliated over and over, which is why he wanted to get out of the house at 16 to marry my mother. That's when I was born. He just wanted to get the hell out. So I knew he had been treated terribly, brutally. And then he grew up and he did the same thing. And in all my life, I had thought my dad was a monster. People would even tell me, man, that dude's a monster. And I liked thinking of him as a monster because then I could think about the bad things I wanted to do to him because I made him into this object. He's a monster. He's not a person. He's like the other. He's not us. He's not like me. But when I examined my life and I started seeing all the bad things I had done and I understood where they came from, and I was able to look at my father and say, oh, he's doing these because of his wounds, his early humiliation, his early trauma. He's no different than me then. This monster who I now understood was this little boy who had been brutalized and. And humiliated and traumatized and behaved badly. He wasn't a monster. Yes, he did monstrous things, but he was no longer a monster to me. He was a kid who didn't ask for any of the shit that happened to him. And then it was like, oh, fuck, I was a kid. I didn't ask for any of it. I didn't ask for the beatings. I didn't ask to witness the trauma that he inflicted on my brother. I didn't ask for the trauma of that. I didn't ask for the death of my mother. I didn't ask for any of the. None of it. None of it. And it happened and it shaped me. And I grew up and I did monstrous things, but I wasn't a monster. Being able to have an understanding of my father, to give him compassion, that gave me that phrase, oh, well then he's not a monster. He did monstrous thing, he's not a monster came back to me and I could appropriate for myself and say, oh yeah, I did monstrous things, but I'm not a monster either. It gave me like this tag, this tagline that I could remind myself when I would start feeling super shameful. That which was, you know, really, really heavy on those early days because I just felt like it, I'm going to always fuck up. I'm just, I'm a terrible evil person. I might as well just kill myself because I'm going to fail at this thing to try and get better too. So I needed help. And that line, I did monstrous things when I'm not a monster. Just like I gave it to my dad, I was able to use it for myself. And that thing, poof. That gave me some rich propulsion in a direction away from shame, just compassion for myself, you know. But I first extended it to my dad and then it came back to me.

[Ben Adair]

We'll be right back.

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[Ben Adair]

That's guardianbikes.com Part 2 First Day Out Joe, do you remember your last day in prison?

[Joe Loya]

I woke up and showered, changed, shaved, shit. I did not shine my shoes because I only was going to walk out with shower shoes because I gave my shoes to somebody else. And then I just waited breakfast and then went to my cell and I waited to be called. And sure enough, at a certain point, pretty early, it's like, loyal. Roll it up, roll it up. And so I go and they escort me to the administration building. And now they start processing me out. Sign this, sign that, sign this, fingerprint that photo of this. Here's your clothes. Change into these. Because my family had sent me clothes ahead of time, and then they brought me to the gate. When they brought me to the gate, many of the asshole guards like, all right, see you soon. Like, I'm coming back. And I was given a $150 check. So first thing I do when I walk out of the prison that I spent seven years for, for robbing banks, the first thing I do is I go to a bank. And when I go to the bank this time, I'm going to make an entirely different experience. And I'm like, this is momentous, man. This is. I'm different, man, than I went in. And I have a different relationship to banking. So I walk up and I put both my hands on the door, and I open the doors and walk in and kind of walk. I need to sign the check. So I go to the counter, I put both my hands out on the counter, and then I look up and I go wait in line. And I look at every camera in there, dumbly just like, what, what, what? Just looking at all of them, just getting my face. I wanted to be known. I wanted to be seeing. And then I got my cash and I walked out. And then I had this experience as my first brush with grief. Because, you know, I'm out there, I'm doing good, I'm happy. I'm as happy as you can be. I'm carrying grief with me, obviously, and sorrow and all sorts of fear and all sorts of things, but I'm really generally like, oh, man, it feels good to be out. So at one point, I go to buy something and there's this guy in there, this young guy, pimply, big old Adam's apple. I think he's probably a college kid, but sweetheart. And then I come up with my little, you know, postcards and gum and whatever, and then he takes my money. My money falls out of his hand. And then, like, he tries to give me the receipt and it falls on the floor. It was like, so clumsy, but as he was. As he bent down to pick up the receipt, and he was just so apologetic to me. Apologetic to me. It was like in that moment, flashbacks of all the shit that I had done in prison, like, it just came flooding that moment, and I felt. I felt terrible that I. This innocent young man was in front of me and all the terrible things I had done. And I mean, it was just, yeah, the. You know, just the level of abuse I'd done to other people. The extortions, the stabbings, the on guards, the fires and the. The tear, the making of the knives, the. The robbing, the terrorizing all the people I did, the. Treating the people who love me shitty. I was just. Felt so. I felt like I was gonna just rob this kid of innocence in a way. And I wanted to get out of there as fast, but I just grabbed myself and I ran out and I. I'm so not ready for good people, man. Like, I'm gonna always feel like fucking terrible shit in front of him. I can't let this keep happening and running out, you know? Yeah, man, it was exhausting to be free.

[Ben Adair]

Joe. You spent. You spent a lot of time in prison thinking about your dad and your relationship with your dad. What was it like when you first saw him after getting released?

[Joe Loya]

I saw him when I exited the plane. And there's my dad. He's my dad. I'd done all my heart work on him already, so I just hug him. I love him. We cry, you know, we weep like men. But there was one conversation that solidified what we would try to be the rest of this time and kind of got to which was this. Dad. So I fucked up really bad. You fucked up really bad. Why don't we do this? Let my fucked up shit cancel out your fucked up shit and then your fucked up shit cancel out my fucked up shit and let's just start over. Let's just do that. Boom. Clean slate. Turn the fucking page. Yeah. Let's just have a fresh start. And that's what we chose to do. Just like that. It's just fresh started. Okay. Fresh start.

[Ben Adair]

We'll be right back.

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[Joe Loya]

Part three.

[Ben Adair]

Gone in a moment.

[Joe Loya]

Well, you know, for those of us who are under three strikes, you're out laws. When I got out, there's a mistake you could make that meant that you're never getting out of prison again. It'll wash you up. One mistake. And that one mistake. Many men who came out of prison, when they would be in reentry programs, they would deal with, they would talk about that moment in which they had to choose, am I going to walk away or am I going to wash myself up? Never get out of prison. It's right here. Its decision is right now. It's like, I am. My life is imperiled in this moment. And not just imperiled, like, oh, I might go to prison for a couple years. Like, I'll never get out again. And they call that the moment of fatal peril. Crocodile Cafe. You know, I'd worked at one before, and here we are at this one, and we're on the patio, and there's this homeless guy across the street, starts walking in traffic, and there's all this horn. Honk, honk. That's why we're paying attention, because everyone's trying to stop. They're honking at him. And he gets so agitated that he stands right in the middle of the road and he puts his arms out like he's Jesus on the cross. And he throws his head back, and he's just standing in the middle, the center line. And so the traffic picks up again. It starts going slowly, slowly by him, and he's just drowned, dramatic there. And people are saying stuff about him in the patio, and I feel bad for him. I have solidarity on him. I get it, dude. In those days, I'm feeling a lot of compassion. And then he comes and he crosses the street, and he comes to the gate that separates the patio from the sidewalk. And then he opens the little gate there and walks in and sits at the table at the far edge of the patio by himself. He doesn't get seated. And so now looks like he wants to be served. And now I can hear the waiters and waitresses like, oh, man, do we have to serve him? Oh, he's probably going to stink and this and that. And I'm like, man, this is terrible, the way they're talking about this guy. I have total solidarity still with him. And then I look over at him, like, kind of want to give him an eye. Like, hey, man, I see you, homeboy. Like. Like that kind of thing, solidarity. Sometimes it works. You can. There's. I'VE been out and I've been in places, and somebody sees me, I see them. We're like, yeah, we know who we are. Yeah, yeah. Nod. Yeah, all right, what's up? All right. And that's it. You let people know who you are. And I'm trying to give that guy that. And he looks at me, and right from across the patio, he says, what are you looking at? You bean eating burrito or something? Like being. Yeah, bean burrito eating. Like, just straight up says it to me. Calls me on in front of everybody. Straight up racist shit. And everyone looks at me. They turn around, look at me. They have that look that we call in prison, like, hey, man, I don't play much chess, but it looks like it's your move. And my anger flashed from 0 to 1, 100. Cuz in that moment, I felt he's threatening me. And I don't know that my hand goes to my fork, but I look at my fork and I'm like, can this thing work? I think I can make this fork work if I need to. I could stab him in the eye. I could stab him. I could stab him in front of his throat. I'll shove this up his nose if I have to. Like, I'm thinking, what can I do to hurt him? And I'm like, okay, calm down, Joe. What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck, man? No, that guy is just throwing words at you, man. That's words. That's nothing. It's not about you at all. Dial that shit down. He's not threatening you. He's not threatening you. It's not a threat. So I start dialing it down. I'm at 80, I'm at 60. That's not a threat. It's not a threat. And then my mind thought, but what if he walks over here? Like, I'm starting to imagine how I'm gonna have to, you know, lunge at this guy. And now I'm back at 100 again. And so now I am in such distress, like, I can't let go. This was my moment of fatal peril. I've been living out here for several months now, and I've been dealing with humiliation after humiliation after small humiliation and being helpless and. And swallowing shit and just like, not doing it. This man has crossed such a. A line that the idea of going over there and, and. And really putting damage on this guy's body feels so good. It's so seductive. That was the danger. Like, I understood that this fell. I'm trying to figure out how Do I let go of this? And I realized, well, sometimes, unlike prison, where I could not leave prison, I had to stay there and I had to deal with it. I was like, I have an out. I got a car, I got a van. But here's the thing. On the way home, I realized I needed to get a hold of my father and I needed to get a hold of my brother. And I don't know why. Like, to this day, I don't know why, but I was smart enough to say, paul, you know, get a sleeping bag or something like that. I need you to come and spend the night with me, dad. I'm going to pick you up. I need you to come and spend the night with me. Like, I need you guys to stay with me tonight. My dad and brother came. I told Paul, stand by, sleep by the window, dad, sleep by the door. Do not let me get up and out of here. Like, I don't want this to happen. I don't want to become that. And then I lay in bed thinking I have all night to make sure that I do some work on myself so that in the morning I don't get up and go find a gun so I can go rob a bank. And I just lay in bed and my brother and dad heard. Heard me just cry. The voices were so strong. And I was not convinced that the beast was not going to win. I was not convinced. I cried myself to sleep. Like, I was just so exhausted from the rage that was coursing through me, because that's what it was. It was now dancing with that old rage again that wanted. That had done so much damage on the planet. I was dancing with that rage, man. Then the morning came. Morning always comes. And the morning comes like there's my dad seated, reading a book, seated on his, you know, by the door. And Paul was brushing his teeth inside the. In the bathroom there. And I don't remember, like, much talking about anything. It was just very quiet. Sun was coming through the shades. And I do remember that we got up and we just hugged it out, the three of us, we hugged it out crying. I had leaned on my. My peoples, man. They loved me. They wanted me to succeed. They wanted me to stay out. I wanted to stay out. And the fever, you know, it faded. It was gone. I didn't feel that rage anymore. In fact, I felt. We got a strategy, and the strategy is very simple. You gotta lean on the love, man. My dad loved me. My brother loved me. I love them. We're family. And we had had such a blasted out home at one point, but in that moment hugging them. Man, we had the best home we'd ever had. It was reliable and it was us showing up and helping the other person out in a moment of crisis. And then I was like, I might make this. Yeah, foreign.

[Ben Adair]

You are listening to the Burden. This has been season four get the Money and Run get the Money and Run was originally released as the Score the Bank Robber Diaries and was produced by Western Sound and Acast Studios. Search up the Bank Robber Diaries and click on the yellow cover art to hear a 15 episode version of this story including questions and answers from Joe Loya. Get the Money and Run was produced by me, Bennett Dare, along with Cameron Kell, Haley Fox and Stephanie Aguilar. Production assistants from Annette Run. Hell, all the music you heard on get the Money and Run was original and it was composed, produced and designed by Dan Leone. Mixing and mastering by Johnny Vince Evans and Austin Smith. Executive producers are me, Benedaire, Joe Loya, Ton, Veronica Taylor and Susie Warhurst. Executive producer and producer of the Burden is Orbit Media's Steve Fishman and Austin Smith. I'm your host Ben Adair. Stay tuned to this feed for more exciting stories from the Burden. Thanks for listening.

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