Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (5:00)

Part 1 who Me? After all those banks, I'm sure you've been wondering, how far can one bank robber go? It starts at a Bank of America, of course. It's in a parking lot of them all in a suburb of LA called Cerritos.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (5:22)

So, a couple interesting notes about this bank. One, I was able to rob two women that day where I robbed one. And then the other teller next to her leaned over to ask her a question. I was like, send the money over, too. So, like, she sent money over and I was having a rob too. So it was, like, really aggressive. The other interesting thing about here is that into this bank I wore two sweatshirts to bulk me up, to make me look bulky. So when I go in there, baseball cap, whatever, and I rob him. I look big. I'm bulked up from the sweatshirt and stuff. When I run to my car, I get in the car, I drive away from here, I pull over the side of the street and I take off all his clothes. And underneath it I have a pair of shorts, I have a UCLA tank top, I have a UCLA hat on. Now I take all my clothes off and now I'm wearing sneakers not. Or topsiders, not the other shoes I was wearing. So I got more of like a collegiate look thing. And I put all the clothes in the bag and I throw it in a rain ditch. So I get on the freeway and as I get on the freeway and I go over to the, to the fast lane. I almost crashed into three sheriff's cars. Vroom. I almost, literally almost crashed in because I'm not looking in my mirror. I just don't. I see it's empty, but they're coming on so fast that I just. And I dodge them and I look ahead and I realize they're racing to where a helicopter is ahead on the freeway. I'm like, shit, I gotta get off the freeway. So I start pulling over off the freeway. And as I start pulling over off the freeway, I. I get off at the next off round and I turn right into traffic, right? I'm like, okay, cool. I just dodged a bullet. All of a sudden, sheriff, cars all around me, I don't know where they came from. And they're all stopping and herky jerky and they're looking at everyone in the cars. And I'm thinking I'm good because I don't look like the guy who walked out of that bank. In fact, as soon as I feel the helicopters overhead, I opened my sunroof so they can look in and they can say, I'm in shorts, I'm not even wearing pants. I don't feel like I look like that guy at all. So all that to say, I'm driving, I'm driving, I'm driving. And cars, as I'm driving down the road on the right and left side, police cars are looking at me. They're just parked. And then as I would drive past them, they would join a crowd, growing crowd of cop cars behind me. So it's like they're looking at me. And then as, as I pull past them, they would then turn into traffic from the left and the right. I'm driving, I'm just chilling, I'm just relaxing, just taking my time, being easy. And then what are you thinking about.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (8:01)

All these cop cars behind you?

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (8:02)

I'm thinking, why are they. Why do they think it's me? I have no clue. But I do know I'm dri. As I'm driving, there's now 15, 20 cars behind me. It's me. They've isolated me. And there's a car pulls up to my left, and he looks at me, and I look at him, and I just keep driving. Another car pulls up to my right, looks at me.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (8:23)

Do they have sirens going? Like, is it.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (8:25)

No, they're just following.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (8:26)

They're just following you.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (8:27)

All right? Then the guy pulls up to the right of me, and then he pulls behind, and now they're all following me. And then the helicopter's in front of me, and he starts going low, and they put their lights on and they yell, pull over. So I feel like, okay, this is a racist rush to judgment, you know, because there's no way that. That I look like the guy. And I'm thinking, I'm gonna fight this in court because why are they stopping me? There's no reason to stop me. They just targeted a Mexican dude. That's the way I'm thinking about it, right? So I pull over. They all have stepped out of their cars. They got guns pointing at me. I could see it in my mirrors. I'm not going anywhere. Helicopters in the road in front of me, low. So I know that, okay, there is. I'm not getting wet, and this is going to be what it's going to be. And I start yelling, why'd you stop me? And the helicopters are going. He's like, shut the up. Put your hands behind your head. And I'm like, why'd you stop me? Like I said, shut the up. And that takes us back. And the whole time, he's giving me instructions to walk back, to walk to my left in the middle of the street, to put my arms out, to get on my knees, to fall forward, everything. I keep interrupting him. Why'd you stop me? Because I'm convinced this is a legal stop. And at that point, I feel them running at me. And I'm laid out on the. On the ground, my legs open, my arms wide, my face down, and they jump on me. I mean, they jump on me, and they're. They're, like, mad at me. And I feel guns on me. I feel knees on me. They're grabbing my hands, trying to put them. And one guy grabs my head. Now, remember, they're on me and. And trying to pull my arms back and I'm not resisting. I'm like, I'm right. So he pulls my head back, and I swear to God, I thought he's going to choke me up because I can barely breathe. And he leans into my ear, says, you want to know why we stopped you? We stopped you for being ugly and Norwalk. So. And you know what I'm thinking the whole time? Like, that's kind of clever. These sons of. That's kind of clever. So I'm seated there, and they put me on a cop car in the back of a cop car. They now approached my car where the guns drawn, like, running at the car and not running, but, you know, coming together. There's a helicopter overhead. Is there someone in there? They don't know. And when they go in, they see that nobody's in there. They open the door, they reach in the back, they pull out the bag, and they hold up the bag, bag of money, like a prize fish. And he says, got it. And I look at it, and the guy says to me, who has. The cop is in the front seat? He says, you're a dumb man. He says, we caught you with the transmitter and the money. They bring the two women I had robbed, and they bring them to where I am standing on the sidewalk and then make them look at me while I did the. I just turned around to my left, to my right, and. And they told me, don't look at them. And I wasn't trying to break the rules, but when I looked to look straight ahead and they were there, I could see from the side of my eyes that their heads were saying, no, that's not the guy. Right? So I knew I had play. I knew that these women did not recognize me as the guy who had just robbed them within the last half hour. So they can only arrest me for possession of stolen property.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (12:02)

So. But you're arrested. You're taking the LA Sheriff's station not too far away in Lynwood, California. What was your plan this time?

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (12:13)

I'm in a holding cell with other criminals. I'm like, oh, fuck. I know what to do. Boom. All right, I get on the phone, Paul, get rid of all photos in my house. Like, I feel like the FBI is going to go to my house and they're going to get photos and they're going to see all my friends, they're going to see photos of me, and they're going to compare the photos of me to the photos they've taken from all the surveillance cameras. So I don't want to match from Any of them at all. I said, get all my photos out of the house. Get whatever cash you can find in the house and go take it at Gloria and have them come down here and bail me out. So I got 12 hours, and I'm waiting to get bailed. I'm waiting to get bailed. I'm waiting to get bailed. In that time, I get pulled out of the holding cell. I got taken to a room, and in walks this real burly guy, Special Agent Cordes. Puts a notebook down, opens it up, and he just starts asking me questions. What's your name? First name, middle name, last name? How old are you? Where'd you go to school? Just basic information. They get all this information from me, and it's not an interrogation. It's just. He wants to assess me. And I'm polite and I'm articulate, and I'm not trying to be friendly with him, but I'm. He's getting a read on me. Like, this guy doesn't look like bank robbers at all. Nothing about me says bank robber. But he suspects I had something to do with it because I was caught with the money. And then he finally says, so the women who were robbed say, you didn't rob the bank. You're not the one who robbed them. But how did you get a hold of that money? Because that's the bank money. I said, man, I'm glad you asked. And I proceeded to lie and tell him that I went out to go shop at Macy's in that mall near where the bank was. And I got out and I realized, oh, shit. I left my wallet in the car. And I go back to my car, and I see this big burly man wearing exactly the outfit I was wearing in the bag. I described me saying, this big burly man runs out and he throws something underneath my car. And I wonder what the fuck? And I pull it out, and it's all this money. So I'm like, fuck it. And I drive away. Next thing I know, you know, Linwood Sheriff's pulling me over and, oh, wow.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (14:34)

Totally plausible story.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (14:35)

I didn't do it.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (14:36)

Totally plausible story.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (14:38)

Now, here's the thing. He knows my record. There's. It's not like he knows he's dealing with somebody who's done this before. So he doesn't know exactly what to think, other than I don't look like a bank robber. That's. That's one thing he's sure of. He's been the business long enough to know I don't look like It. But he's also. Criminals are lying sons of. They will lie gratuitously. They will lie often and a lot. So that's what. That was my first introduction to him.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (15:07)

So what happened? Was there like an arraignment?

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (15:10)

They drive me to downtown, to the federal courthouse. And while we're driving there, he says, we know who you are now. He said, Mr. Joel Stevel we know who you are now. We're gonna put you in court and it's not gonna look good for you. We're at sixteen Banks accounting. We know who you are. Believe me, I go to court, man. They. They did that dramatic thing where they pull something over and all of a sudden, 16 pictures of a guy walking out of a bank and various clothing and you know, the photos you've seen and among, you know, Mickey Mouse shirt, plaid shirt, suit, trench coat, fedora. All of it, 16 photos. This. They're saying, we're still counting, Your honor, we will give him bail now. We can have $100,000 bail for two weeks. We're trying to get bail. It takes a long time to clear my. My aunt's house to put it up. It just. It took a lot longer than I expected. It was almost two weeks to get it.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (16:11)

And so that way, if you leave and don't come back, if you run away to Mexico or something like that, they have the house, she loses her home.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (16:19)

Yeah.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (16:20)

And so your aunt is telling you that she's going to do this.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (16:23)

Yeah.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (16:23)

And what are you thinking as she's telling you this?

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (16:26)

Honestly, I think I'm thinking, fuck this, I'm not coming back. I'll just give her money to replace the house. I'll rob enough to give her a new house, but I'm not coming back. I think there was certainly, at one point I thought that. And then I get out, I make bail, and I proceed to rob five more banks.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (16:55)

We'll be right back.

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Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (18:28)

Part 2 It takes two.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (18:35)

Now I figure out, you know what? I'm not going to go to prison. And this is where me, I was already an asshole. I was a bad person in society. I was just a thief. It was kind of shit. And I decided like, up my game by putting my aunt's house in jeopardy because my aunt put her house up for me to go on bail. My aunt, and she loved me and I was willing to risk it all. I didn't care. And so what I do is I get somebody who I used to play golf with who resembled me. Person was about 4 inches shorter than me. And this person was desperate for money. I always took him around, always paid stuff for him. I liked having him around. And it's like, you, you, you want to eventually get something like this? And he was like, yeah. And finally when I come out of Amban, I go to this guy and say, hey, listen, I'll teach you how to do this and we'll split the money. He says, really? I said, yeah, but you have to do it exactly as I say. He's like, sure. Because he's like. I said he had seen the loads of cash I had. So to him, he's thinking 30, 40, $50,000 and he could be his. Well, I take him to go do it, go to Orange county somewhere. He goes into the bank. After I tell him what to do, I park far away, you know my ammo. He runs to the car. I drive way. We're going fast. I'm all excited. He's breathing hard. It's like, whoa, this is great. I don't have to rob banks. I got a guy who can rob banks for me. We'll split the money and like I can make some money here. And we're driving on finally. So how much you get? He goes, oh, I didn't get nothing. She told me no. He said, she told him no. I was like, oh my God, this guy is so bad. So I pulled over and I said, here's what happened last night. They came into your house, they went upstairs, they got your pants, they took your wallet out, they grabbed all your money. They got your money in that bank, in that teller station is your money. You have the right to go in there and basically take your money back. You have the moral right to go get that money. That's the way I try to pump him up for it. So I take them to the. This mall where they have a bank in the mall. I park, he goes inside. Whatever lame thing he's putting out, people are picking it up. Apparently he was good enough to at least get some money from them, because as soon as he hits that door, he's still holding the money in his hands, and he's holding it to his chest. And when he pushes that door open, an eddy of air catches that money. The money goes flying everywhere, whirling in the air, and there's him trying to catch it out of midair. And I look at him. I'm thinking, what a fucking idiot. So I have to drive away. And as I'm driving away, I look back and he's running. And now it is a Benny Hill skid. There's one dude, and there's a crowd of people running out to. Out of the bank. I'm like, oh. So I cross the street, this big boulevard out of the parking lot, and I park. And I'm like, come on, come on. And I'm looking in my rear view mirror and I see him coming. He runs. He jumps in the seat next to me, and he's so short that all they see is one person in this car. It's important. Important to the story. I'm too far for them to catch me. I'm too far for them to even see my license plate. And it tries to come after us, but I'm gonna little RX7. And I just. I do sports car stat and I take off and I'm going so fast down this residential street. And it's a long residential street, so I'm picking up speed, I'm going fast. And then I see a dip coming, so I break and downshift and I try to slow it down. I hit that thing going 80, and I fly in the air. And when I land, I land so hard that I think my car is going to fall like I fell apart. It doesn't fall apart, but I know for sure my oil pan is burnt. You know, I broke it. I busted. There's no way my oil pan is surviving this. I turn right and Now I'm out of this residential area into another big street. So I said, get out of here. Get yourself back home. He jumps out. I turn right now my car beep, beep, like I'm in danger. I jump out of my car. I cross the street back to this side of the street, and I go into Sir George's smorgasbord. And a cop car comes up, slows down, puts his lights on in front of my car, comes up, puts his hand on the hood. He feels it's hot. There's smoke coming out of my car. And I walk right through the kitchen, out the back door, and I hit an alley. And I start running. And I'm running down this alley because my car is busted. I'm not getting back to my car. And now they know I'm in the area. I'm running out of there. I get out of there. I have my brother pick me up in Orange county, come home that night. So we. I was fortunate enough to be driving by right when they're raiding my house, and there's cops all over my house. They're all creeping in on my house because the FBI is now going to rescind my bail. They know I had something to do with that bankruptcy. They think I actually robbed the bank. And as we drove, I could see police with their guns drawn sneaking up on my house, around the back gate. Turn around. I called my dad. I said, hey, dad, what's up? Because I knew my dad was close to the FBI agent who was, you know, after me. They had kind of bonded, and I said, what's up? He says, turn yourself in, son. Turn yourself in. Special Agent Court has called, and he said, you robbed that bank. He knows you robbed the bank. I said, nope, did not rob that bank. Swear on Mommy's grave I did not rob that bank. He go, really? I said, dad, I swear on Mommy's grave. He goes, all right, let me call. Let me call Cordis. Cordis tells my dad, hey, have Joe call me. So I call him, and I. And I. He said, hey, we found your car. Says Cordis, I wasn't in that bank. I didn't ride that bank, and I'm not going to turn myself in because it took me two weeks to get bond, and I don't want to wait another two weeks in there for your mistake. I was not in there. And he said, okay, well, here's what I'm gonna do for you, Joe. I'm gonna go look at the footage, and I'm gonna call. Call me tomorrow. And I'll tell you what I see now. Banks, the way they. Because banks are designed, they could tell how tall you are by where you are on the counter. All those little signs in the lobby. The next day I call him and he says, you need to talk to your lawyers, Joe. I said, really? He goes yeah, because you have a double out there. This person's like 4 inches shorter than you. He says, so I'm not gonna talk to you about why your car was in the area broke down, but I will not rescind your bond because that was not you. I said thank you. I told you that.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (26:10)

We'll be right back.

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Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (27:49)

Part 3 Last time out Joe, tell me about the last bank you ever robbed.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (28:00)

Yeah, so there's an Oxnard and I was a fugitive. Yeah, I'd been robbing banks on the run and I wanted to make this money. I wanted to make some money to leave for to my girlfriend before I left the country. So I go to Oxnard, park my car on the main road in a like a gas station parking lot. So you can't see me from the front door of the bank at all. Not at all. But there's a big parking, it's in kind of in a mall area and the kind of Parking lot that had a lot of little islands in it. So I walk into the bank. Very simple robbery. I go in there, I rob them. I'm walking out, and as I'm walk, I turn around to walk equal distance to the front door, but on the other side, outside is an armored car carrier. Like, he's carrying cash in a bag, and he's walking to it, and I can see the armored car parked behind him. So I walked her, and I just keep my cool. Like, what the fuck? I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna play it E, you know? Like, I'm not gonna panic. I gotta get out of here. So I walk to the door, and I'm thinking, who's gonna open the door? Who's gonna get there first? I mean, we're a good distance away. Each gives me plenty of time to think, like, oh, is this going to play out? He gets to the door and he opens it, and he holds it for me. And I'm like, oh, hey, thanks. And I walk right through the door. Thank you. Walk away. And he walks in. I don't look behind me, but I know that as soon as he walks in, somebody is going to say, that guy just robbed us. I don't hear it, because what I hear is just blood in my ears going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Because now I look at the guy in the. In the armored car, and he's looking at me because he has to watch his friends back going in. And he's looking at me, and I got sunglasses, and I'm walking out, and I'm walking out with a stride, and I think he picks something up. But almost as soon as that guy gets inside the door, I take a couple steps, and then I just start booking, man. I just start running fast as I can. I got to get in my car. And sure enough, I hear the truck, like, rumble up. And I'm just running, running, running. As I'm running, you know, periodically, I do look back just to see where he is. And that's when I realized he can't come straight after me. He has to, like, drive around this island and get around this other island. Like, he's having to find his way out of the maze of the parking lot. And I run. Now I'm across the street, and now I get to my car, and I don't feel like I'm to make it. Like, I know this thing is way closer than anything has ever been in my car. In fact, I start my car, back it up, drive away, and I got a little Mazda RX7. I take off up the street and I see it come around the corner and it's picking up speed. And I'm like, this thing is. Has enough speed with it that it's actually catching me for a second. Then it pulls away and I go over the freeway and I'm driving back to LA now, and I'm driving down the road and like, good, I got the money. I got away. Everything's cool. Wouldn't be till later that I realized I hadn't really got away. Not even close. I'm on the west side, staying at a hotel right after 405 off Sunset. And I know that I want to meet my girlfriend at UCLA that day to give her some money, because I'm gonna. I'm gonna go back to Mexico.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (31:59)

That was gonna be it, right? Like, you're gonna be.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (32:01)

Was gonna be in the wind. So I get in my car, I'm driving down Sunset. I'm coming to UCLA the back way. And I see a motorcycle cop right behind the bushes, hiding in. Like, if I drive in, he's seen who's coming in and out. And I think that's. That's odd because they know that they're gonna be following my girlfriend. I'm gonna still be. I'm cannier than them, right? Like, I. I'm not gonna drive in them. They don't know how good I am. Watch this. So I drive into Westwood, and I drive into downtown Westwood, park my car inside a park garage. So no helicopter can find my car just by flying over. All I'm thinking is, okay, so what? They're looking for a car. You know how many thousands and thousands and thousands of students they're not gonna find? Needle in a haystack, right?

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (32:47)

Right.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (32:48)

So I get. I decided to walk into the campus. I walk into the campus now, behind the library there, they have vending machines and big metal tables and. And it was tightly packed with students when I was there. So, you know, you figure eight tables, five people per table or whatever, there's a lot of people there. So I decided to get some coffee, whatever, cappuccino, and off the machine. And I'm reading my Wall Street Journal, and I'm looking around, and all of a sudden I hear Joe Joloya. I turn to my left and I see this guy, you know, just milk toast, white guy, glasses, shorts, UCLA sweatshirt. But I don't recognize him. So I just turn back to my newspaper. Joe. Joe. Like, all of a sudden, he realizes I'm that. And he's Trying to catch me. And I don't look again. I don't look, but I realize, oh, I'm fine. This I might be. And at that moment, I feel somebody, like, behind me. Not him. He's still over there. And I feel this person behind me. So I jump up, I throw my chair back, and this person grabs my wrist with one hand and the back of my elbow with another. Like to just try to try to control me. And he's now on me. He jumps on my left, and I'm hitting him, and he's like, FBI, you're under arrest. And I'm listening for other FBI agents to come to be like, oh, dad, get your hands up. You know, And I'm not hearing any running. I'm not hearing any screaming. And just, you know, instinctively, I realize this is me and them. I'm just pummeling him, pummeling him, pummeling him. And I feel his grip start to loosen. So I'm thinking, oh, man, I think I can get away. I'll go into a building. I'll go to third floor. I jump on a roof on the way out and go to the bathroom, go to. You know, I'm gonna run around. He yells out, help us. We're the FBI. And I'm like, I don't know these people. Stay out of it. And I realize I sound stupid as soon as I say it. Like, of course they're the FBI. These aren't just like, a woman and a man jumping on a guy saying, they're FBI. This has to be serious. And it maybe confusing them, but they know in this scrimmage, I'm the bad guy.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (35:07)

You mean the other students or who.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (35:08)

Are the other students who are all around me, right? There's. And there's. There's a group of them. There's. You know, it's that big area back there. I'm just beating the shit out of him at this point. And all of a sudden, I just. I can't move. They. All the kids just jump on me. These boys, just these guys. And I'm swarmed. And my hands are on my side because I can no longer pummel. I can't swing. I can't do nothing. They're all trying to grab me. And then I feel clack, click. And they tie me up, handcuff me. And I'm just. The whole time, fuck you, motherfucker. Goddamn sons of bitch. Just. I was so angry because I knew I'm caught. I'm never getting bail again. I'm gonna have to go.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (36:19)

And that was it.

Joe (Bank Robber Storyteller) (36:21)

And that was it. Man. They got me. They got me.

Ben Adair (The Burden Podcast Host) (36:36)

You are listening to The Burden Season 4, get the Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media. Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound and Acast Studios. Next up, stay tuned for episode six, Life on the Inside.

Steve Fishman (Orbit Media Host) (36:56)

Thanks for listening. Remember to hear all episodes all at once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. It's worth it. You'll find other gripping true crime series there. Also ad free. If you want to hear Ben talk about this episode, check out the teaser. It's in the Burden feed.

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