Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (3:30)

Yeah, let's go.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (3:31)

Let's walk.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (3:31)

Let's see what would have happened. So now you've parked your car now, and now you're walking to the bank?

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (3:41)

Yeah. So I get out of the car. I feel like I've marshaled enough of my will and violence and determination and focus. So I'm gonna walk in, I'm gonna do what I do. But when I start delivering my spiel, I notice that in the back, there's a woman who's the manager. She spots me, and she realizes I'm robbing the bank. Eyes locked on me. Fearlessly, I get the money, I spin, and I come out the front here. And I think, all right, I've done my business. So when I walk out of the bank, I start walking here. I look back, and the woman's over there, kind of like hiding behind a car. And I'm like, what the hell? She's, like, gonna try and follow me down the street. This is why I don't like this kind of setup. Because my car's right down there. She can see it. So I look at her, and I basically say, like, do my finger. Like, naughty woman. Don't do this. You don't do this thing again. But just, like, wiggle my finger at her, like, almost like a scold. She doesn't run back in. She'll turn around. And I'm like, ah. I know she's gonna follow me because she's not afraid of me. So I walk down about halfway through this thing there, and I turn around. Sure enough, she's walking. It's almost like a cartoon where she's, like, doing almost on her tiptoe, slowly. Like I said, she's right here. So now I aggressively look back, and I'm like. I point at her really aggressively, like, you. No, go back. And she doesn't move. So I just turn around, start walking faster, and about three steps, I immediately pivot, and I start running right at her. And I start reaching into my coat and her eyes again. We're like cartoon territory. I rubbed out of her hair just. And she just looked at me and just spun and just like started running as fast as she could. She was scared. Now I got her. I'm running full speed of her reaching into my pocket. As soon as she spins and starts running, I take two more steps and then pivot and run straight for my car. I have 10 steps before she's even gonna stop to turn around. She's so scared. I got her scared. So I immediately go to my car, jump in and make a U turn that way. That woman I always like, man. I like admire that woman. There's something, she has some gumption. I hope that's in the DNA, man. Because that shit, that bodes well for our family.

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Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (7:59)

Part 1 the Good Life so after the last episode, I wanted to get some other perspectives on young Joe's family life and childhood. Thought I'd play some of those interviews.

Joe Loya Sr. (Joe's Father) (8:14)

Joe was cute as a. Cute as a bug. The kid, he was a talkative. He was very charismatic even as a little kid. And bright, really bright. And you could tell he was already going to be a leader by the time he was 4 and 5. The kids would follow him. He wouldn't follow anybody. He was the one that took the lead and everything. And I would observe that. And I said, this kid is going to be a leader. This kid has a mind of his own.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (8:44)

This is Joe's dad, Joe Loyas Sr. There was a time before all the abuse that we heard about in the last episode. Stuff we're going to be unpacking for the next several episodes. And Joe's dad is going to sound like a villain. Both Joes are going to sound like villains before we're done. But they're not just villains. So before we get into all the ins and outs of victims and assailants, terrors and terrorized. I want to mark this time, the time before. Before the wife and mother died, before things went too far, when young Joe Sr. Was a new dad with all the optimism and promise provided by his new family. And young Joe Jr. Was cute and smart and full of potential and hope for the future. They both were.

Joe Loya Sr. (Joe's Father) (9:40)

One day, I asked. I used to ask him. He'd be playing around and I'd be in the kitchen doing reading, studying Lear. And I'd call him and he'd come running. Little guy. Okay. He was just five. So he comes into the kitchen. Yes, Daddy. Hey, you love me? Yes, I love you a lot. I love you a lot. How much you love me? I love you. He's learning his numbers, right? I love you a hundred. I love you a hundred. A lot of hundreds. And one day he came home and he looks at me, says, daddy, did you know that numbers never end? I said, yes, I know that. So a few days later, he knew the routine. He comes in there and I say, how much you love daddy? This time he doesn't just answer quickly. He thinks about it. He says the most sweet things for a kid. He says, I love you more than counting goes, I love you more than counting goes, yeah, yeah, exactly. Joe was everything you could ever want, I could ever want in a child. He was so incredibly wonderful. I remember that I would come in, he'd hear the door knocking, and he'd sitting on his. He'd be sitting on his high chair, and he was just, you know, sitting there. And then I'd poke my head and go peekaboo. And he'd go crazy hitting it and laughing and just really. God, I felt so great, so terrific. That's an image that's here. And he grew up, and he was just so incredibly wonderful. I just. I was so proud of him.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (11:28)

This is Joe's younger brother, Paul.

Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (11:32)

And one of the things my. And God bless them for this. One of the things that my mother and my father did was they. Now that I think about it, maybe it's not a good thing. But they gave Joe the responsibility. And, you know, imagine that, you know, having a two year old responsibility, giving a two year old some responsibility. But they told him it was his job to kind of like, protect me because he was the older brother. And Joe, you know, being Joe, kind of understood, like he had this role in my life. Certainly growing up. He was very much a protector of me. I was the shy kid who hung out with his brother because we moved around a lot. There was always a new set of friends. There was always a new set of circumstances. And Joe was much more advanced in interacting in these situations than I was. I was much more insecure, I was much more afraid. And Joe knew that. And Joe would always let me tag along because he was my brother. Joe allowed me into his world. And because he allowed me into his world, people gave me that respect. And, you know, I remember I didn't have friends. They were always Joe's friends. Now, years later, even into high school, the friends that I had weren't always my age. They were the friends that Joe would make. And then I would tag along and become Joe's friends. And then we would all be, you know, hanging out and you know, lo and behold, I would get friends through, like, through that avenue, but it was always because of Joe. And I remember when I first started learning guitar, I was horrible. Horrible. I was horrible, man. I look back and I was like, I don't even know why I was like, like, I. I picked up that instrument, but I was like, you know, I was so brand new at guitar. And Joe said, hey, I'm gonna go to, to this Bible study tonight. And. And I would, I would tell Joe, hey, can I bring my guitar? And Joe would be, yeah, yeah, bring it, man. Like, it's cool. You know, maybe you could play in front of people and stuff like that. And, you know, where nobody in my family ever would give me that credibility, Joe always gave that credibility to me. But, you know, as long as I knew that it was cool with Joe, that it was cool, that I was. That I was all right, you know, but that's still. Those are the types of things where I can't really articulate. Like, say, hey, you know, Joe would come over and, you know, rubber stamp me and say, this is my brother, he's cool. La la. These are just the things that emotionally that I knew because that's the world that I lived in. Was the emotional world. And I lived in a world of. Of, you know, like, am I okay? Am I not okay emotionally? So I lived in that world, and Joe always made sure that I felt okay.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (14:15)

This is Ann Heffernan. She was a friend of Joe's when he was robbing banks.

Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend) (14:22)

Joe, he knows how to make people love him, and he knows how to use language. Some people might feel manipulated by that, but I don't mind being manipulated, because I don't mind it. I totally got something out of it. I mean, Joe changed my life. Joe wasn't like anyone I had ever met before. And I was this good girl who didn't necessarily want to be a good girl. And so when a hot Mexican bank robber comes to work in your restaurant, you perk up. Joe came in, and he's so full of life. Super dynamic, super self assured. And he paid attention to me, and I like that he just was super jovial, like, super, super up, super funny. Joe, he loves women. So if you're working in a restaurant, you're surrounded by women generally, right? But also, if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure he held a knife to someone in the freezer. Maybe someone had said something to his girlfriend or. So there was also this rogue kind of piece of him that made him even that much more interesting. We started talking, and. And he liked that I knew books. And then he was really well read, so he would start quoting from Nietzsche. And the whole time I'm like, be my boyfriend.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (16:07)

Be my boyfriend.

Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend) (16:07)

Be my boyfriend.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (16:08)

Be my boyfriend.

Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (16:09)

Right?

Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend) (16:10)

But, you know, he has this girlfriend. I'm like, I'm gonna be his girlfriend. I'm gonna be his girlfriend.

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Be my boyfriend.

Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend) (16:19)

The one time I remember the most was the time when we went to the pantry after work, and he slid this envelope across from me, and he said, this is who I am. And I opened it up, and it was this piece of paper. It was his handwriting, and it said something like. So he was trying to tell a story. The idea was he was trying to create a dialogue. And I felt so honored at that moment when he gave it to me, because I felt like he was really sharing himself with me. And so the most wonderful thing that can happen in a relationship is when someone hands you their soul. Like, there was a glimpse into the truth. And then there was a. We had a Christmas party. Some of the busboys were flirting with me, and Joe came, and he just, like, swept me up, and he took me out of that party. And then we went back to my place. And for that night. I was his girlfriend. So I was living in North Hollywood over this bookie, this bookie's house. And I was living in the upstairs apartment and Joe came over and we're walking up the stairs and then we put on Peter Gabriel, I think in your eyes and we're dancing and I just thought that. I know. That was so beautiful. And then, and then we got naked.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (17:55)

We'll be right back.

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Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (19:33)

Part 2 Troublemaker.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (19:39)

I don't think I saw. Oh, I want track to be a criminal. This is how you behave as a criminal. In fact, when I looked around and I saw guys that were these young little cholos, I was like, those guys are on track to go to prison. Those guys are already like using drugs and, you know, carrying weapons. What I was doing was just stupid, sloppy suffering. Like I was just messing up. I felt this strong sense of entitlement and I wanted to take shit, right? So for example, I saw something I wanted belonged to somebody I cared about and I didn't give a. I had to go get it. Like, that is already showing you. I was going to be a guy who's get out of my way. If I want something, I'm gonna go get it. If there's somebody who loves me, cares for me, whatever, whatever, man, I don't give a. I need to go get it. And you're incidental. In my life, in my imagination, just people were objects. When I would later become a bank robber and I would walk in to these towers, I didn't see them as human beings. I've said it before. When I walked in there with the rage that I had, they were chess pieces on a board. They just needed to move. I didn't care anything about their family, their futures, their goals, their aspirations, their dreams, their resentments. I didn't care anything that made them human. It was a confusing, desperate, fearful time for me. And my dad has a, you know, ministry, and I'm getting beat in the week, but then on Sunday, you know, all these Christians are like, oh, this man's the greatest guy on earth. And this is actually. All of this is the stew that's turning into rage.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (21:34)

Here's Joe's brother Paul.

Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (21:36)

It was. It was. It was a weird time, you know, it was a really weird time that. Those years, you know. Yeah, it's a difficult story to.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (21:46)

Yeah.

Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (21:49)

I'm gonna weather this one. I'm gonna weather this one. But this is a difficult story for me, that. It's one of the things that is a really defining moment in my life. I'm gonna weather this one again. I don't know what day of the week or anything like that, but I know that I was washing dishes, and I. And I know that I rarely washed dishes at the time. Like, I was like, we know you have certain roles when you're little kids. And, you know, I was always the dryer. I was never the washer. I was always the dryer. Joe was always the washer. I was always the dryer. But this particular time, you know, my dad yelled at us and. And, you know, I was. Again, I was always moved by fear. So I automatically went to the washer, and I started washing dishes. And I was nervous, and I was just like this bag of nerves, and so I missed. And I was not a very good washer. But, you know, again, I'm 14 years old, 13 and a half probably at the time. And my dad ended up going to the dishes that I had washed, and he picked up a few, and obviously I was deficient in my washing capabilities, got upset, and he started yelling at me.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (22:58)

And he punched my brother in the ribs, the back of the ribs. Grabs my brother by, pounces on him, grabs him by the back of the hair and starts dunking his head in the soapy dish water.

Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (23:11)

He stuck my head under the hot water, the scalding water. And Joe was sitting there rinsing the dishes. And he was just appalled at what it was occurring.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (23:22)

I'm paralyzed with fear, holding the plate, looking at him, scared to death, right?

Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (23:29)

Because my dad started putting my face into the water. And what I did was just automatically turn my head. And when I turned my head, I think I turned my head to Joe. So our eyes met, and for a split second there, Joe could see the fear. And it was one of those. Just one of those really poignant times in my life where I just had eye contact with Joe, and Joe knew that I was afraid. And Joe couldn't protect me. Joe wanted to protect me, but he couldn't. And my dad is holding my head underwater. He lifts my face back up after a few seconds, and he just gets right up to my face, man, right up to my face. And he says, you know, he says, you know, you should have died instead of your mother.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (24:34)

He lifts Paul's head out and he says. The words are just. I mean, you should have died instead of your mother.

Paul Loya (Joe's Brother) (24:46)

I'm 13 and a half, maybe 14. You know, it's one of those defining moments in my life that it's just really, really. It's just really, really sad to remember it. It's really sad to discuss it, but I know that it's not who I am. I know it's not true. I know that I've resolved and reconciled it. I'm, you know, I'm a good person. I tried to. You know, I mean, like, that's. I'm a survivor of abuse. And I can't believe that that happened to me, but it did. And it's. It's still. Still hurts, you know, it still hurts. It's something that will always hurt. It's something that's really difficult for me to reconcile. But, you know, I'm not that little boy anymore. And I'm a lot stronger. I'm a lot stronger.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (25:57)

It is the worst memory of my life. And I remember that night thinking, I want to die. I just want to die one. Because I had always been this brave kid who protected my brother. And that day, I could not do it. And I was haunted by my brother's face of water coming out of his nose. And his eyes a supplication looking at me, like, just terrified. And I wanted to die. I want. It was seriously like, suicide. Just take me. Jesus Christ, man. I don't want to even be here. I cannot live with my cowardice. I confronted cowardice that day. And here's the thing. I was smart. I was intense. I had this aggression. And I felt My heart was big and muscular. And even though I was getting beat down, I felt like I was made to be bigger than this. Right? This is what's happening to me now. But one day I'm gonna be. And that's why this is so crushing to me, because I'm sitting there and I feel pathetic. I feel terrible. And I started thinking, oh, shit, that dude wants to kill us. He wants one of us. He certainly wishes my brother hadn't lived. He wants my brother dead. What about me? We're in Alhambra. I graduated from Alhambra High School, actually, but we're in Alhambra. 11th grade. February. February is the worst life of my day or month of my life. Every bad shit that ever happened. My mother's death, this event. February sucks for me, this February. And my dad has a girlfriend who I like. And I. One day she takes us to Sizzler. That's what I mean. She was cool. She took us to Sizzler. And in those days, Sizzler was bomb. Like, you know, steakhouse and everything. Sizzler. One thing I've become a connoisseur of knives. I like knives. Sizzler has great knives. And I remember we were talking to her and I tell her that my. She needs to be my dad. My dad's brutal, beats us. He's a fraud. And I tell her these stories of abuse because I want her to know that super dramatic, the terrible things he does to us. But in telling those stories, I realized I really made myself look soft ass, weak, pathetic. And in a. In a moment of pique and, you know, kind of like quiet humiliation, I just pick up the steak knife and I'm in fact, you know, so saddened by how pathetic I made myself sound. I pick up the knife, I clean the knife. I speak what I'm going to do next time he says I'm going to stab him in the neck. Next time he hits it, I'm just gonna stab him in the neck. Did you say that or do you. I said that.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (29:09)

You said that.

Joe Loya (Bank Robber) (29:09)

And I hold up the knife and it's like being a novelist. Like, if you show the gun in the first act, it has to go.

Ben Adair (Podcast Host) (29:39)

You're listening to the Burden. Season four, get the Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media. Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound and Acast Studios. Next up, stay tuned for episode three, the Hunter.

Steve Fishman (Orbit Media Host) (29:58)

Thanks for listening. Remember to hear all episodes all at once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. It's worth it. You'll find other gripping true crime series there also ad free. If you want to hear Ben talk about this episode, check out the teaser. It's in the burden feed.

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