Get the Money and Run | Who’s Your Daddy

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Burden

Season 4: Get the Money and Run, Episode 2 - Who’s Your Daddy
Hosted by: Ben Adair, Steve Fishman (Orbit Media)
Featured Subject: Joe Loya
Date: May 6, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, "Who’s Your Daddy," host Ben Adair continues to unravel the life and psychology of Joe Loya—once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California—by interrogating the roots of his rage, his complicated relationship with his father, and the traumatic family dynamics that shaped his criminal path. The episode intersperses recollections from Joe, his brother Paul, his father Joe Sr., and others, blending dark humor and piercing trauma, moving from moments of tenderness to violence, showing how the burden of protection and betrayal forged Joe’s persona as both a protector and a criminal.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Anatomy of a Bank Robbery

(02:42–06:23)

• Joe Loya walks Ben Adair and Paul through the meticulous approach to scouting and robbing banks—explaining logistics, psychology, and risk mitigation.
• Joe’s Tactics: Prefers not to park right in the bank lot to avoid being easily followed; values unpredictability and plans for potential bystanders and “heroes.”
• Notable Moment: Describes a tense interaction with a bank manager who almost thwarts his escape.
  • Quote:

    “She realizes I’m robbing the bank. Eyes locked on me. Fearlessly, I get the money, I spin, and I come out the front here... She’s, like, gonna try and follow me down the street. This is why I don’t like this kind of setup.”
    —Joe Loya (03:41)

• Memorable Detail: Instead of violence, he uses intimidation—waggling a finger and scolding, before running at her and causing her to flee in fear.

---

2. Part 1: The Good Life—Early Family Dynamics

(07:59–14:15)

• The episode rewinds to Joe’s childhood, featuring tender moments as recounted by his father, Joe Sr., and his brother, Paul.
• Joe as a Child: Described as “charismatic, bright, a leader” (08:14), beloved, with strong family bonds before tragedy struck.
  • Quote:

    “He was the one that took the lead and everything. And I would observe that. And I said, this kid is going to be a leader. This kid has a mind of his own.”
    —Joe Loya Sr. (08:14)

  • Recounts an endearing game about how much Joe Jr. loves his dad:

    “I love you more than counting goes, I love you more than counting goes.”

• Paul on Sibling Bond: Joe was made responsible for protecting younger brother Paul—offering emotional safety in a tumultuous environment.
  • Quote:

    “Joe always made sure that I felt okay.”
    —Paul Loya (13:52)

• Foreshadowing: The narration reminds us this is “the time before”—before abuse, loss, and trauma turn both father and son into figures trapped by their own legacies.

---

3. The Allure and Danger of Joe—Through a Friend’s Eyes

(14:15–17:55)

• Ann Heffernan, a friend and former romantic partner, describes Joe’s charismatic, manipulative, but intoxicating presence.
  • Quote:

    “Joe, he knows how to make people love him, and he knows how to use language... Joe changed my life. Joe wasn't like anyone I had ever met before.”
    —Ann Heffernan (14:22)

• Attraction and Risk: Ann is drawn to Joe’s mix of intellect and volatility—even recounting an incident where he held a knife to someone in her restaurant.
• Notable Moment:
  Ann remembers a moment when Joe vulnerably shared a piece of writing with her:
  • Quote:

    “The most wonderful thing that can happen in a relationship is when someone hands you their soul. Like, there was a glimpse into the truth.”
    —Ann Heffernan (16:19)

---

4. Part 2: Troublemaker—Joe’s Descent into Anger and Crime

(19:33–29:09)

• Joe’s Reflection: He draws a sharp distinction between becoming a criminal and his own “stupid, sloppy suffering” and budding sense of entitlement as a young man.
  • Quote:

    “What I was doing was just stupid, sloppy suffering... I wanted to take shit, right? ...If there's somebody who loves me, cares for me, whatever, whatever, man, I don't give a. I need to go get it. And you're incidental.”
    —Joe Loya (19:39)

• Dehumanization: Joe describes how during his robberies, people became “chess pieces on a board.”
• Abuse and Double Life: Joe outlines the confusion of being beaten by his “Christian” father during the week, then watching him praised on Sundays at church.

---

5. Cycles of Violence—The Dishwashing Incident

(21:34–24:34)

• Family Trauma: Through Paul's and Joe’s voices, we hear a harrowing story—Paul, as a young teen, is violently punished by their father for improper dishwashing, culminating in Joe Sr. dunking his head in scalding water.
  • Quote:

    “He says, you know, you should have died instead of your mother.”
    —Paul Loya (24:34)

• The moment marks a rupture: the failure to protect, the humiliation, and a new depth of pain for both brothers.

---

6. Aftermath and Enduring Impact

(24:46–29:09)

• Paul’s Reflection: Though now an adult, Paul describes how the violence forever shaped him—with pain, but also resilience.
  • Quote:

    “I'm a survivor of abuse. And I can't believe that that happened to me, but it did. And it's... It's still. Still hurts, you know, it still hurts. It's something that will always hurt.”
    —Paul Loya (24:46)

• Joe’s Loneliness and Suicidal Despair:
  • Quote:

    “It is the worst memory of my life... I confronted cowardice that day.”
    —Joe Loya (25:57)

• Weaponization of Pain: The episode climaxes with Joe, now obsessed with knives, vowing to take lethal revenge should his father abuse them again. He describes this as his “novelist’s” moment—showing the proverbial gun early in the drama.
  • Quote:

    “If you show the gun in the first act, it has to go.”
    —Joe Loya (29:09)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Joe’s Charisma:
  “He knows how to make people love him and he knows how to use language. Some people might feel manipulated by that, but I don't mind being manipulated…Joe wasn't like anyone I had ever met before.”
  —Ann Heffernan (14:22)

• On the Contradictions of Fatherhood:
  “This kid is going to be a leader. This kid has a mind of his own.”
  —Joe Loya Sr. (08:14)

• On Abuse and Cowardice:
  “I confronted cowardice that day. And here's the thing. I was smart. I was intense. I had this aggression. And I felt my heart was big and muscular. And even though I was getting beat down, I felt like I was made to be bigger than this...But one day I’m gonna be...”
  —Joe Loya (25:57)

• On Trauma’s Legacy:
  “I'm a survivor of abuse... It's something that will always hurt. It's something that's really difficult for me to reconcile. But, you know, I'm not that little boy anymore. And I'm a lot stronger.”
  —Paul Loya (24:46)

---

Episode Flow & Structure

• 00:00–02:30: Intro/ads (skipped)
• 02:42–06:23: Joe guides us through the anatomy of a bank robbery; tactics, moments of tension.
• 07:59–14:15: “The Good Life”—Joe’s early childhood, family aspirations, and love before trauma.
• 14:15–17:55: Friends reflect on Joe’s charisma and dark allure, emphasizing his dual nature.
• 19:33–21:34: “Troublemaker”—Joe discusses his mindset, rage, and criminal development.
• 21:34–24:34: The traumatic dishwashing incident; Paul’s near-drowning and verbal abuse from their father.
• 24:46–29:09: The psychological and emotional aftermath for both brothers, Joe’s vow for vengeance.
• 29:39–end: Credits and transitions (skipped).

---

Tone and Takeaways

The episode’s tone is intimate, harrowing, and deeply introspective, layering Joe’s own brash, self-deprecating wit with the raw, unresolved pain of childhood trauma. Listeners are invited to see not just the trajectory of a criminal, but the tragic architecture of violence, unmet need, and perpetual cycles of victimhood and aggression.

For those seeking simple answers or villain/hero binaries, this episode insists on nuance—no one here is simply a villain or a victim. Instead, every person is shaped by love, loss, survival, and the burden of trauma.

---

Transcript

[IBM AI Advertiser]

If you're waiting for your AI to turn into ROI and wondering how long you have to wait, maybe you need to do more than wait. Any business can use AI. IBM helps you use AI to change how you do business. Let's create smarter business IBM.

[Mori Hair Care Advertiser]

A life that's carefree needs hair that's worry free. Have both with Mori reduce shedding and thinning in as little as 12 weeks with clinically proven all natural Mori nourishing hair care products. Others containing sulfates, parabens and GMOs can actually weaken your hair over time. You can look great for holiday photos. Still not sure we get it. So right now purchase Mori at 50% off while it lasts and take a quiz for a custom hair care recommendation at M o e r I-e.com results can vary. Mori is not a substitute for medical advice.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

Website for more this is Rashawn McDonald from Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Every business starts with an idea. How can you go from daydreamer to industry leader? Amazon Business accelerates your journey with smart business buying. Get everything you need to grow in one familiar place. From office supplies to IT essentials and maintenance tools. Amazon Business takes the buying experience you know and love from Amazon Put plus tools to help you save costs and make insights based decisions ready to bring your visions to life. Learn [e-mail] Joe Loya has agreed to.

[Steve Fishman (Orbit Media Host)]

Answer our questions, so please send yours to infoorbitmedia FM or leave them in the comments on Spotify or Apple. Thank you. Hi there, it's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. You're listening to get the Money and Run. In this episode, Episode two, we ask the question, what happens when a protector cannot protect those he loves most? I find this episode, particularly part three, heartbreaking. I think you will too to binge all seven episodes at once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. All right, over to Ben.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

You are listening to The Burden Season 4, get the Money and Run. I'm Ben Adair and this is episode two, who's your daddy?

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

How did you.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

How did you discover this bank right here?

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

You know a lot of times what I would do is I'd go to areas and I would just drive around and see if there's possibilities of banks to rob. I used to spend a lot of time down the street here at a friend's house, so I know this area. I finally drove past this bank and I thought, hey, you know what? It's not the kind of bank I rob which is on the corner because my whole thing was, I like to leave a bank. So when I'm followed, people step out of the bank and immediately start swiveling their head side to side, looking for cars driving around that who are trying to get in and out of the parking lot because they're looking for a getaway car here. They would see me leave the bank and not get into a car in the parking lot where all the cars are. That's too easy for them. So I had to park far away. You want to get on and walk?

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

Yeah, let's go.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

Let's walk.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

Let's see what would have happened. So now you've parked your car now, and now you're walking to the bank?

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

Yeah. So I get out of the car. I feel like I've marshaled enough of my will and violence and determination and focus. So I'm gonna walk in, I'm gonna do what I do. But when I start delivering my spiel, I notice that in the back, there's a woman who's the manager. She spots me, and she realizes I'm robbing the bank. Eyes locked on me. Fearlessly, I get the money, I spin, and I come out the front here. And I think, all right, I've done my business. So when I walk out of the bank, I start walking here. I look back, and the woman's over there, kind of like hiding behind a car. And I'm like, what the hell? She's, like, gonna try and follow me down the street. This is why I don't like this kind of setup. Because my car's right down there. She can see it. So I look at her, and I basically say, like, do my finger. Like, naughty woman. Don't do this. You don't do this thing again. But just, like, wiggle my finger at her, like, almost like a scold. She doesn't run back in. She'll turn around. And I'm like, ah. I know she's gonna follow me because she's not afraid of me. So I walk down about halfway through this thing there, and I turn around. Sure enough, she's walking. It's almost like a cartoon where she's, like, doing almost on her tiptoe, slowly. Like I said, she's right here. So now I aggressively look back, and I'm like. I point at her really aggressively, like, you. No, go back. And she doesn't move. So I just turn around, start walking faster, and about three steps, I immediately pivot, and I start running right at her. And I start reaching into my coat and her eyes again. We're like cartoon territory. I rubbed out of her hair just. And she just looked at me and just spun and just like started running as fast as she could. She was scared. Now I got her. I'm running full speed of her reaching into my pocket. As soon as she spins and starts running, I take two more steps and then pivot and run straight for my car. I have 10 steps before she's even gonna stop to turn around. She's so scared. I got her scared. So I immediately go to my car, jump in and make a U turn that way. That woman I always like, man. I like admire that woman. There's something, she has some gumption. I hope that's in the DNA, man. Because that shit, that bodes well for our family.

[Various Advertisers (LG XBoom, Progressive Insurance, Belvita, Chumba Casino)]

Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound. Sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG XBoom and for a limited time, save [e-mail] with code fall25. Bring the boom XBoom.

[IBM AI Advertiser]

So your AI agents, they make the team that uses them more productive, right? But if they aren't connected to other agents or your data or your existing workflows, how productive can they really make your teams? Any business can add AI agents. IBM connects your agents across your company to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to Business. IBM.

[Various Advertisers (LG XBoom, Progressive Insurance, Belvita, Chumba Casino)]

Brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

Part 1 the Good Life so after the last episode, I wanted to get some other perspectives on young Joe's family life and childhood. Thought I'd play some of those interviews.

[Joe Loya Sr. (Joe's Father)]

Joe was cute as a. Cute as a bug. The kid, he was a talkative. He was very charismatic even as a little kid. And bright, really bright. And you could tell he was already going to be a leader by the time he was 4 and 5. The kids would follow him. He wouldn't follow anybody. He was the one that took the lead and everything. And I would observe that. And I said, this kid is going to be a leader. This kid has a mind of his own.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

This is Joe's dad, Joe Loyas Sr. There was a time before all the abuse that we heard about in the last episode. Stuff we're going to be unpacking for the next several episodes. And Joe's dad is going to sound like a villain. Both Joes are going to sound like villains before we're done. But they're not just villains. So before we get into all the ins and outs of victims and assailants, terrors and terrorized. I want to mark this time, the time before. Before the wife and mother died, before things went too far, when young Joe Sr. Was a new dad with all the optimism and promise provided by his new family. And young Joe Jr. Was cute and smart and full of potential and hope for the future. They both were.

[Joe Loya Sr. (Joe's Father)]

One day, I asked. I used to ask him. He'd be playing around and I'd be in the kitchen doing reading, studying Lear. And I'd call him and he'd come running. Little guy. Okay. He was just five. So he comes into the kitchen. Yes, Daddy. Hey, you love me? Yes, I love you a lot. I love you a lot. How much you love me? I love you. He's learning his numbers, right? I love you a hundred. I love you a hundred. A lot of hundreds. And one day he came home and he looks at me, says, daddy, did you know that numbers never end? I said, yes, I know that. So a few days later, he knew the routine. He comes in there and I say, how much you love daddy? This time he doesn't just answer quickly. He thinks about it. He says the most sweet things for a kid. He says, I love you more than counting goes, I love you more than counting goes, yeah, yeah, exactly. Joe was everything you could ever want, I could ever want in a child. He was so incredibly wonderful. I remember that I would come in, he'd hear the door knocking, and he'd sitting on his. He'd be sitting on his high chair, and he was just, you know, sitting there. And then I'd poke my head and go peekaboo. And he'd go crazy hitting it and laughing and just really. God, I felt so great, so terrific. That's an image that's here. And he grew up, and he was just so incredibly wonderful. I just. I was so proud of him.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

This is Joe's younger brother, Paul.

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

And one of the things my. And God bless them for this. One of the things that my mother and my father did was they. Now that I think about it, maybe it's not a good thing. But they gave Joe the responsibility. And, you know, imagine that, you know, having a two year old responsibility, giving a two year old some responsibility. But they told him it was his job to kind of like, protect me because he was the older brother. And Joe, you know, being Joe, kind of understood, like he had this role in my life. Certainly growing up. He was very much a protector of me. I was the shy kid who hung out with his brother because we moved around a lot. There was always a new set of friends. There was always a new set of circumstances. And Joe was much more advanced in interacting in these situations than I was. I was much more insecure, I was much more afraid. And Joe knew that. And Joe would always let me tag along because he was my brother. Joe allowed me into his world. And because he allowed me into his world, people gave me that respect. And, you know, I remember I didn't have friends. They were always Joe's friends. Now, years later, even into high school, the friends that I had weren't always my age. They were the friends that Joe would make. And then I would tag along and become Joe's friends. And then we would all be, you know, hanging out and you know, lo and behold, I would get friends through, like, through that avenue, but it was always because of Joe. And I remember when I first started learning guitar, I was horrible. Horrible. I was horrible, man. I look back and I was like, I don't even know why I was like, like, I. I picked up that instrument, but I was like, you know, I was so brand new at guitar. And Joe said, hey, I'm gonna go to, to this Bible study tonight. And. And I would, I would tell Joe, hey, can I bring my guitar? And Joe would be, yeah, yeah, bring it, man. Like, it's cool. You know, maybe you could play in front of people and stuff like that. And, you know, where nobody in my family ever would give me that credibility, Joe always gave that credibility to me. But, you know, as long as I knew that it was cool with Joe, that it was cool, that I was. That I was all right, you know, but that's still. Those are the types of things where I can't really articulate. Like, say, hey, you know, Joe would come over and, you know, rubber stamp me and say, this is my brother, he's cool. La la. These are just the things that emotionally that I knew because that's the world that I lived in. Was the emotional world. And I lived in a world of. Of, you know, like, am I okay? Am I not okay emotionally? So I lived in that world, and Joe always made sure that I felt okay.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

This is Ann Heffernan. She was a friend of Joe's when he was robbing banks.

[Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend)]

Joe, he knows how to make people love him, and he knows how to use language. Some people might feel manipulated by that, but I don't mind being manipulated, because I don't mind it. I totally got something out of it. I mean, Joe changed my life. Joe wasn't like anyone I had ever met before. And I was this good girl who didn't necessarily want to be a good girl. And so when a hot Mexican bank robber comes to work in your restaurant, you perk up. Joe came in, and he's so full of life. Super dynamic, super self assured. And he paid attention to me, and I like that he just was super jovial, like, super, super up, super funny. Joe, he loves women. So if you're working in a restaurant, you're surrounded by women generally, right? But also, if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure he held a knife to someone in the freezer. Maybe someone had said something to his girlfriend or. So there was also this rogue kind of piece of him that made him even that much more interesting. We started talking, and. And he liked that I knew books. And then he was really well read, so he would start quoting from Nietzsche. And the whole time I'm like, be my boyfriend.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

Be my boyfriend.

[Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend)]

Be my boyfriend.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

Be my boyfriend.

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

Right?

[Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend)]

But, you know, he has this girlfriend. I'm like, I'm gonna be his girlfriend. I'm gonna be his girlfriend.

[Various Advertisers (LG XBoom, Progressive Insurance, Belvita, Chumba Casino)]

Be my boyfriend.

[Ann Heffernan (Joe's Friend and Girlfriend)]

The one time I remember the most was the time when we went to the pantry after work, and he slid this envelope across from me, and he said, this is who I am. And I opened it up, and it was this piece of paper. It was his handwriting, and it said something like. So he was trying to tell a story. The idea was he was trying to create a dialogue. And I felt so honored at that moment when he gave it to me, because I felt like he was really sharing himself with me. And so the most wonderful thing that can happen in a relationship is when someone hands you their soul. Like, there was a glimpse into the truth. And then there was a. We had a Christmas party. Some of the busboys were flirting with me, and Joe came, and he just, like, swept me up, and he took me out of that party. And then we went back to my place. And for that night. I was his girlfriend. So I was living in North Hollywood over this bookie, this bookie's house. And I was living in the upstairs apartment and Joe came over and we're walking up the stairs and then we put on Peter Gabriel, I think in your eyes and we're dancing and I just thought that. I know. That was so beautiful. And then, and then we got naked.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

We'll be right back.

[Various Advertisers (LG XBoom, Progressive Insurance, Belvita, Chumba Casino)]

Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights. Because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG XBoom and for a limited time, save [e-mail] with code Fall25. Bring the Boom XBoom.

[IBM AI Advertiser]

If you're waiting for your AI to turn into ROI and wondering how long you have to wait, maybe you need to do more than wait. Any business can use AI. IBM helps you use AI to change how you do business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Various Advertisers (LG XBoom, Progressive Insurance, Belvita, Chumba Casino)]

Brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. Process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

Part 2 Troublemaker.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

I don't think I saw. Oh, I want track to be a criminal. This is how you behave as a criminal. In fact, when I looked around and I saw guys that were these young little cholos, I was like, those guys are on track to go to prison. Those guys are already like using drugs and, you know, carrying weapons. What I was doing was just stupid, sloppy suffering. Like I was just messing up. I felt this strong sense of entitlement and I wanted to take shit, right? So for example, I saw something I wanted belonged to somebody I cared about and I didn't give a. I had to go get it. Like, that is already showing you. I was going to be a guy who's get out of my way. If I want something, I'm gonna go get it. If there's somebody who loves me, cares for me, whatever, whatever, man, I don't give a. I need to go get it. And you're incidental. In my life, in my imagination, just people were objects. When I would later become a bank robber and I would walk in to these towers, I didn't see them as human beings. I've said it before. When I walked in there with the rage that I had, they were chess pieces on a board. They just needed to move. I didn't care anything about their family, their futures, their goals, their aspirations, their dreams, their resentments. I didn't care anything that made them human. It was a confusing, desperate, fearful time for me. And my dad has a, you know, ministry, and I'm getting beat in the week, but then on Sunday, you know, all these Christians are like, oh, this man's the greatest guy on earth. And this is actually. All of this is the stew that's turning into rage.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

Here's Joe's brother Paul.

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

It was. It was. It was a weird time, you know, it was a really weird time that. Those years, you know. Yeah, it's a difficult story to.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

Yeah.

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

I'm gonna weather this one. I'm gonna weather this one. But this is a difficult story for me, that. It's one of the things that is a really defining moment in my life. I'm gonna weather this one again. I don't know what day of the week or anything like that, but I know that I was washing dishes, and I. And I know that I rarely washed dishes at the time. Like, I was like, we know you have certain roles when you're little kids. And, you know, I was always the dryer. I was never the washer. I was always the dryer. Joe was always the washer. I was always the dryer. But this particular time, you know, my dad yelled at us and. And, you know, I was. Again, I was always moved by fear. So I automatically went to the washer, and I started washing dishes. And I was nervous, and I was just like this bag of nerves, and so I missed. And I was not a very good washer. But, you know, again, I'm 14 years old, 13 and a half probably at the time. And my dad ended up going to the dishes that I had washed, and he picked up a few, and obviously I was deficient in my washing capabilities, got upset, and he started yelling at me.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

And he punched my brother in the ribs, the back of the ribs. Grabs my brother by, pounces on him, grabs him by the back of the hair and starts dunking his head in the soapy dish water.

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

He stuck my head under the hot water, the scalding water. And Joe was sitting there rinsing the dishes. And he was just appalled at what it was occurring.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

I'm paralyzed with fear, holding the plate, looking at him, scared to death, right?

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

Because my dad started putting my face into the water. And what I did was just automatically turn my head. And when I turned my head, I think I turned my head to Joe. So our eyes met, and for a split second there, Joe could see the fear. And it was one of those. Just one of those really poignant times in my life where I just had eye contact with Joe, and Joe knew that I was afraid. And Joe couldn't protect me. Joe wanted to protect me, but he couldn't. And my dad is holding my head underwater. He lifts my face back up after a few seconds, and he just gets right up to my face, man, right up to my face. And he says, you know, he says, you know, you should have died instead of your mother.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

He lifts Paul's head out and he says. The words are just. I mean, you should have died instead of your mother.

[Paul Loya (Joe's Brother)]

I'm 13 and a half, maybe 14. You know, it's one of those defining moments in my life that it's just really, really. It's just really, really sad to remember it. It's really sad to discuss it, but I know that it's not who I am. I know it's not true. I know that I've resolved and reconciled it. I'm, you know, I'm a good person. I tried to. You know, I mean, like, that's. I'm a survivor of abuse. And I can't believe that that happened to me, but it did. And it's. It's still. Still hurts, you know, it still hurts. It's something that will always hurt. It's something that's really difficult for me to reconcile. But, you know, I'm not that little boy anymore. And I'm a lot stronger. I'm a lot stronger.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

It is the worst memory of my life. And I remember that night thinking, I want to die. I just want to die one. Because I had always been this brave kid who protected my brother. And that day, I could not do it. And I was haunted by my brother's face of water coming out of his nose. And his eyes a supplication looking at me, like, just terrified. And I wanted to die. I want. It was seriously like, suicide. Just take me. Jesus Christ, man. I don't want to even be here. I cannot live with my cowardice. I confronted cowardice that day. And here's the thing. I was smart. I was intense. I had this aggression. And I felt My heart was big and muscular. And even though I was getting beat down, I felt like I was made to be bigger than this. Right? This is what's happening to me now. But one day I'm gonna be. And that's why this is so crushing to me, because I'm sitting there and I feel pathetic. I feel terrible. And I started thinking, oh, shit, that dude wants to kill us. He wants one of us. He certainly wishes my brother hadn't lived. He wants my brother dead. What about me? We're in Alhambra. I graduated from Alhambra High School, actually, but we're in Alhambra. 11th grade. February. February is the worst life of my day or month of my life. Every bad shit that ever happened. My mother's death, this event. February sucks for me, this February. And my dad has a girlfriend who I like. And I. One day she takes us to Sizzler. That's what I mean. She was cool. She took us to Sizzler. And in those days, Sizzler was bomb. Like, you know, steakhouse and everything. Sizzler. One thing I've become a connoisseur of knives. I like knives. Sizzler has great knives. And I remember we were talking to her and I tell her that my. She needs to be my dad. My dad's brutal, beats us. He's a fraud. And I tell her these stories of abuse because I want her to know that super dramatic, the terrible things he does to us. But in telling those stories, I realized I really made myself look soft ass, weak, pathetic. And in a. In a moment of pique and, you know, kind of like quiet humiliation, I just pick up the steak knife and I'm in fact, you know, so saddened by how pathetic I made myself sound. I pick up the knife, I clean the knife. I speak what I'm going to do next time he says I'm going to stab him in the neck. Next time he hits it, I'm just gonna stab him in the neck. Did you say that or do you. I said that.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

You said that.

[Joe Loya (Bank Robber)]

And I hold up the knife and it's like being a novelist. Like, if you show the gun in the first act, it has to go.

[Ben Adair (Podcast Host)]

You're listening to the Burden. Season four, get the Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media. Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound and Acast Studios. Next up, stay tuned for episode three, the Hunter.

[Steve Fishman (Orbit Media Host)]

Thanks for listening. Remember to hear all episodes all at once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. It's worth it. You'll find other gripping true crime series there also ad free. If you want to hear Ben talk about this episode, check out the teaser. It's in the burden feed.

[Various Advertisers (LG XBoom, Progressive Insurance, Belvita, Chumba Casino)]

Stop settling for weak sound. It's time to level up your game and bring the boom. Hit the town with the ultra durable LG X Boom portable speaker and enjoy vibrant sound wherever you go. Elevate your listening experience to new heights because let's be real, your music deserves it. The future of sound is now with LG XBoom and for a limited time save 25% at LG.com with code fall25. Bring the boom XBoom.

[Mori Hair Care Advertiser]

Every day has a to do list, but adding Enjoy Belvita to yours can help you knock out the rest of it. Belvita Breakfast Biscuits are a tasty and convenient breakfast option when paired with low fat yogurt and fruit that provide steady energy all morning while Belvita Energy Snack Bites give you the perfect mid morning refuel. Best part? They both taste great, so make the most out of your morning with a bite of Belvita. Pick up a pack of Belvita at your local store today.

[Various Advertisers (LG XBoom, Progressive Insurance, Belvita, Chumba Casino)]

Hello, it is Ryan and we could all use an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, counting your steps. You know, all the mundane stuff. That is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. Chumba Casino has all your favorite social casino style games that you can play for free anytime, anywhere with daily bonuses. So sign up [e-mail] that's chumbacasino.com no purchase necessary. VGW Group void where prohibited by law 21 + terms and conditions apply.