Lives of Crime | 2. Education of an Assassin Part 2

Summary

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The Burden – Lives of Crime | 2. Education of an Assassin Part 2

Podcast by Orbit Media, Host: Steve Fishman | Aired March 31, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode, the second part of “Education of an Assassin,” continues the raw, firsthand account of Larry Maza’s evolution from a teenage delivery boy in Brooklyn to a trusted member of a mafia crew and ultimately a cold-blooded assassin. Through Larry’s first-person narrative, listeners are taken inside his tangled relationships, mentorship under the feared “Grim Reaper” Greg Scarpa, the escalating moral descent of mafia life, and finally, his break from the organization that gave him purpose and identity. Larry’s story is starkly honest, filled with the twisted logic, thrill, regret, and self-reflection unique to those who “cross the line.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Falling Deeper into the Mob World

• New Camaraderie: After Greg discovers Larry’s affair with his wife, Linda, the dynamic shifts to camaraderie. Greg not only tolerates Larry, he begins grooming him for a more significant role.
  • [02:49] “There were true feelings between me and Linda, and they just grew stronger and stronger. Greg knows — he’s okay with it. Now that Greg knows, the weight of the world is off my shoulders. Greg and I have this new camaraderie, this new friendship.” – Larry
• Mob Mentorship: Greg introduces Larry to the mechanics of the club — money lending, numbers, and criminal strategy. Larry is drawn in by Greg’s charisma, adopting his style and being enamored by his approval.
  • [04:10] Larry mimics Greg’s way of dressing: “He had a gold watch. I had a gold watch… He was my role model.”

2. Breaking from Family and the Legitimate Path

• Turning Point: The family’s legitimate business (a supply warehouse) burns down under suspicious circumstances, ending Larry’s excuses for staying within the law and pushing him to fully embrace the mob world.
  • [06:00] “Was it a setup? Was it an insurance job? I never found out, but there was no more supply company. I took myself off the fire department list, and now I’m in no man’s land...”
• Spurning Police Work: Linda violently objects to Larry’s suggestion of joining the police, emphasizing the mob’s worldview and loyalty.
  • [06:45] “‘Police? You can’t take that.’ And I says, ‘Why?’ ... She got mad. She jumped down my throat. ‘No, you can’t be a cop.’”

3. Early Criminal Tasks & Moral Erosion

• Rapid Promotion: Greg skips normal mafia protocol, keeping Larry close and using him in the numbers business—escalating Larry’s involvement and status quickly.
  • [07:00] “He bypassed putting me with all the younger guys. He kept me direct with him. That sort of made me unofficial equal to Greg Jr.”
• Becoming an Earner: Larry quickly proves himself smarter and more industrious than many regulars, boosting earnings with innovations like football parlay cards.
  • [09:10] “Now I went from making $200 a day to $400 a day.”
• Exposure to Violence: Larry’s first brushes with violence are indirect—he learns about beatings and murder (Bucky). He rationalizes his proximity and inaction as innocence, but feels the erosion:
  • [12:40] “Once you justify the beatings, you go to the next step. I knew there was an issue with a member of our crew named Bucky… Here I am hearing a guy got killed and it’s just normal conversation.” – Larry

4. First Acts of Complicity

• Flat Tire Incident → Death: Greg asks Larry to give a rival a flat tire. The man is murdered while fixing it. Larry knows he is involved in something far more serious than he intended.
  • [13:55] “I see one of the headlines, ‘Man killed fixing flat.’ Most people would never put themselves in that position… Deep down, I knew I was part of that. But it was easy to say, well, I didn’t do it.”
• Grave Digging: Greg orders Larry and Greg Jr. to get shovels and dig a grave, a pivotal moment:
  • [15:30] “I didn’t think Greg was taking up gardening, but I knew to keep my mouth shut... Within 15, 20 minutes, it was pitch black… I was sweating because it’s hard work, and the ground was harder because it was cold. I’d never dug a grave before.” – Larry
• Thrill and Pride: Disturbingly, each criminal act brings approval from Linda and Greg, fueling Larry’s transformation.
  • [17:03] “Every time I did something… Linda was always beaming. She was proud. She loved to tell Greg, ‘See, I told you he was a tough guy.’”

5. First Murder Witnessed—No Turning Back

• Donnie’s Execution: Larry is present for a murder over allegations that Greg is a “rat.” The killing is shocking in its suddenness and ritual.
  • [21:15] “If somebody calls you a rat, you have the right to kill them on the spot… Greg reached into the drawer, pulled out a .38, and shot him from about two feet away… Greg walked from behind the desk and put one more behind [Donnie’s] ear. That’s his trademark.” – Larry
• Casual Aftermath & Dark Humor: The group jokes about the mismatched carpet they use to remove the body, showing the normalization of violence.
  • [22:20] “We all just start laughing… Bobby Zam is color-blind and nobody knew it. The wrong color carpet might have been a major irritation to Greg, but in my mind, I just witnessed a man being killed.”

6. Becoming The Trigger Man

• Attempted & Successful Hits: A “message” leads to an attempt on rival Nikki Black. Technical mishaps mean Larry becomes the shooter, resulting in Nikki’s death and a marked escalation in Larry’s criminal identity.
  • [26:50] “As we pull up, adrenaline’s going. You feel those butterflies… Greg’s going to grab his rifle. He hits the wrong button—no bullets. Now I was the main shooter. I leaned out the window… and I pulled the trigger.”
  • [28:40] “When you become a triggerman, there is a big difference… I felt now that I was the powerful force Greg was… He would come over, grab my hand in a hearty shake, pull me closer, give me a kiss on the cheek, like it was something sacred that just happened.”
• Surreal Normalcy: After the murder, Larry and Jimmy go home, pour scotch, and watch Seinfeld—a chilling juxtaposition.
  • [29:15] “The wife was a little upset that we got there late and the first thing we do is pour two scotches and put on Seinfeld. We were hysterical, watching Jerry run down the street.”

7. Reflection and Regret

• Loss of Innocence: Larry acknowledges the ethical gulf between his former life and his reality as a killer.
  • [30:50] “How did I go from a young, innocent, well-brought-up teenager to a cold-blooded assassin?… Being the shooter made me safe. No longer was I the hunted. Now I’ve become the hunter.”
• Lingering Remorse: The episode ends with Larry’s candid emotional struggle—unable to fully forgive himself and always wrestling with the consequences of his choices.
  • [31:13] “It does make me emotional because there are two Larrys—the one before I got into mob life, and the one who could talk cold-hearted about doing some very bad things. I could never completely forgive myself. And it’ll be a lifelong battle.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [02:49] “I was enamored by Greg. I dressed like him. He had a gold watch; I had a gold watch. He had a pinky ring; I got a pinky ring.” – Larry
• [06:46] “‘You can’t be a cop.’ She got mad. She jumped down my throat.” – Larry, on Linda forbidding the idea of police work.
• [13:55] “Keep your mouth shut. Most people would never put themselves in that position. And those are the things that went through my head. How am I here? Deep down, I knew I was part of that.” – Larry
• [17:43] “It’s way past ankles, it’s way past knees... I gave a guy a flat—he’s dead. I dug a grave. I know somebody’s laying in that grave.” – Larry, on his own descent.
• [21:20] “Greg reached into the drawer, pulled out a .38, and shot him from about two feet away, right across the desk... That’s his trademark.” – Larry on the Donnie murder.
• [28:12] “When you become a triggerman, there is a big difference. And I felt it.” – Larry
• [31:13] “There are two Larrys—the one before I got into mob life, and the one who could talk cold-hearted about doing some very bad things... It’ll be a lifelong battle.” – Larry

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Key Segment Timestamps

• [02:49] Larry’s new relationship with Greg and entry deeper into the mob
• [07:00] Larry joins the numbers business, begins earning big money
• [09:10] Rapid rise and innovations in mob business
• [12:40] First exposure to murder (Bucky) and mafia “tests”
• [13:55] Flat tire incident and realization of complicity in murder
• [15:30] Larry digs his first grave – initiation into deeper violence
• [21:15] Witnessing the murder of Donnie
• [26:50] Attempted and successful hit on Nikki Black
• [29:15] The surreal aftermath—watching Seinfeld after murder
• [30:50] Final reflection, regret, and struggle for self-forgiveness

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Final Reflection

The episode closes with Steve Fishman explaining that Larry, after serving 10 years in prison for four murders (receiving a lighter sentence due to cooperation), ultimately became a government informant—ironically mirroring the Grim Reaper Greg, his mentor and “mob daddy,” who had informed for the FBI for decades. The story, both chilling and tragic, asks the listener to consider the moral gray zones, seductive logic, and human cost of life in organized crime.

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Recommended Reading:

• The Life: A True Story About a Brooklyn Boy Seduced into the Dark World of the Mafia by Larry Maza

Produced by Orbit Media, hosted by Steve Fishman.

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Transcript

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[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

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[Steve Fishman]

Expo to listen all at once ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to Lives of Crime. True Crime from True Criminals. I'm Steve Fishman. This week we present part two of the Larry Maza story. When we met Larry in episode one, he was a 17 year old delivery boy at the local supermarket who'd just been seduced by Linda, a beautiful older woman. The affair took off and then Linda insisted that Larry meet her husband. Larry assumed he was a businessman. In fact, he was a mob assassin known as the Grim Reaper. But Greg, that's the Grim Reaper's real name, is okay with the love triangle. He likes having Larry around. It turns out the Grim Reaper has his own plans for Larry. We call this episode the Education of an Assassin, Part two.

[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

There were true feelings between me and Linda, and they just grew stronger and stronger. Greg knows he's okay with it. Now that Greg knows, the weight of the world is off my shoulders. Greg and I have this new camaraderie, this new friendship. We even joked about our situation. Greg starts confiding in me in lots of things. One of those things is that he has another wife two hours away in New Jersey. Now I realize how I had all those nights alone with Linda. I'm at the club every day. Wimpy boys. Now, I call it the club, not the office. I know it's a club. And I see all these piles of money coming in, lending money out. The number business. I know it's not legal, but it's Brooklyn. Linda is in his ear all the time. She wanted me to be another Greg. I actually mentioned it to my father. They're opening a company and they'd like me to be the sales manager. So he's a little concerned. He doesn't want me to walk away from the fire department plan that we have. That I was gonna be a fireman just like him. And I assured him I wouldn't. The one uneasy part I had was having to continue to lie to my parents. My father, he had no idea I was sleeping with this older woman. I couldn't tell them I was with this mob guy. But I did want them to meet him. I said, he's a lot like Uncle Albert. My Uncle Albert is my mom's brother. He's a dinosaur in the Colombo family. Well respected and a good, good man. We meet at the same restaurant Greg took me to the first time, Sorrento's, and walked us to the back table. Greg's table. Greg is very charismatic, very articulate. He was able to have my father laugh and think. He's a regular guy. He's a good guy. He has good plans for me and my mom and dad. They probably knew in the real world, sometimes it's who you know and not what you know. Greg. This night at the table was all of that. I was enamored by Greg. I dressed like him. He had a gold watch. I had a gold watch. He had a pinky ring. I had a pinky ring. He has a Greg in diamonds on his wrist. I went and bought a Larry in diamonds. He was my role model. Somehow, some way, I find out, the warehouse blows up. Our whole warehouse goes up in flames. Was it a setup? Was it an insurance Job. I never found out, but there was no more supply company. I took myself off the fire department list, and now I'm in no man's land, telling Linda, what am I going to do with my life now? I got to go back and take the fire department test again. Or the police department test. Police. You can't take that. And I says, why? I says, it's a great job. You work for the city. No, no, no, no. She got mad. She jumped down my throat. You could arrest somebody. How could you? No, you can't be a cop. All right, all right. I gotta do something. The very next morning, I go to the house. Greg is there. He's not upset, he's not broken. We sit down, and he explains to me how unfortunate it was that the place burned up. It's just another day gone by. What I think we'll do is we'll bring you into the numbers business. I really don't have much of a choice. So I says, okay, I'll start today. Greg saw that I had whatever it is, a gene, some DNA, something that separated me. Not sure, but he saw something. He bypassed putting me with all the younger guys. He kept me direct with him. That sort of made me an unofficial equal to Greg Jr. Greg Jr. Is Greg's son.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Friend]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Friend]

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[Anna Navarro]

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[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

The Justice Department through, I think we

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

counted four presidential administrations failed these victims.

[Anna Navarro]

Listen to BLEEP with Ana Navarro as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or Wherever you get your podcasts,

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Greg Jr. Hooks me up with a guy who is a bookmaker. Now I'm bringing back bets anywhere from 100, 200, 500,000. Now I'm starting to make big money on anybody's standards. Six months later, now I'm like 21 and a half. I become a major bookmaker in the city. Other families are edging off to me. I ultimately got commissioned to open my own office and now the money is getting somewhat mind boggling. Wasn't officially a wise guy, but I was now a mini Greg. He's sort of grooming me. He was teaching me to be the consummate mobster just like him. When you got it, you'll walk into a room and they'll smell you. They'll know you're a gangster. I felt like I was part of something. Meeting captains and goodfellas and I was being treated with respect. And they knew I was an earner. When you're an earner, you're loved. Greg said I have to get a caddy. He had Bobby, one of his men, bring me to Nelson Mom, a Cadillac. I had no credit, but Bobby told Nelson, mom, this is Greg's nephew. I drove out with the car. I'm spending literally hours in the office manning the phones. Linda's getting upset with me because we're not spending as much time together. The business is great as it could be. There were ups and downs. There were times we lost a fortune and I had to borrow money. This is where I started seeing the other Side of Greg, there was no slack. If I had a six month bad run, I had to pay that juice. There's no missing payments to him. He said business is business. He loved nothing more than his money. I started seeing it. I started getting privy to hits. Starts out with beatings. People that didn't pay, bring them in the club. We'd go to work on a guy. And you're always being watched. The first inkling of me going over the line where beatings were being given out. Once you justify the beatings, you go to the next step. I knew there was an issue with a member of our crew named Bucky. Bucky had done something wrong based on what Greg told me, and they had to straighten it out. I found out that day through some talk in the club that Bucky wouldn't be around anymore. Yeah, Bucky, poor guy got involved in drugs. Yeah, well, he should have known better. Nobody in the family is condoning drug dealing from the higher ups all the way down. That's a death penalty. I was around long enough to catch the drift of what the conversations were. Here I am hearing a guy got killed and it's just normal conversation. It's like it's his fault, nobody else's fault. So obviously I was uneasy, but I wasn't there. I wasn't directly part of it. So it's easy for me to say, well, I didn't do anything. And that was a test. If I would go over to it and run in the back and say, greg, that's Bucky, Things that you shouldn't say. You don't talk about these things. Loose lips sink ships. You listen and you don't talk. Greg one day asked me to give a guy a flat tire. Would I do that for him? I said, of course, Greg. I'm thinking in the back of my head, the guy must have parked in his spot or disrespected him in some way. And, you know, I think I did that once. Somebody kept parking in my driveway, so I gave him a flat tire. I don't think I need to be a gangster to do that. The next day I come to the club and there's the daily News on the bar. And some of the guys are looking through it. I see one of the headlines, man killed fixing flat. Keep your mouth shut. Most people would never put themselves in that position. And those are the things that went through my head. How am I here? Deep down, I knew I was part of that. But it was easy for me to say, well, I wasn't there. I Didn't do it. I didn't shoot him. But later on, I would learn I was as guilty as the person that pulled the trigger. There's something called conspiracy. The next step for me was literally going to the hardware store and buying a shovel. I didn't think Greg was taking up gardening, but I still knew to keep my mouth shut. He tells me, get two shovels and take a ride with Greg Jr. We just had to go dig a hole and make sure it's real deep. Bought the shovel, put it in Greg Jr. S car, and we take a ride way out Staten island. And we go into an area called Wolf's Pond. Off a secluded dirt road. There's a lot of woods and there was also a bird sanctuary that another local gangster used to bury bodies. It was definitely starting to get dark. Within 15, 20 minutes, it was pitch black. It was a cold night. We were in leather jackets, dressed like, just coming from the club. I was sweating because it's hard work, and the ground was harder because it was cold. I mean, I'd never dug a hole or a grave or anything before. Who was gonna get hit is the main thing on my mind. We were both wondering who it was gonna be. But again, you can't ask that question. It took us hours. And Gregory Jr. He would make jokes and lighten up even the toughest of situations. He says, I can't wait to become the shooter. Cause he doesn't want to dig holes for the rest of his life. I says, oh, that would be easier. Little by little, you sink. And I was sinking a little further that night. Every time I did something, no matter how small it was, whether we cracked the guy around in the in the place or I bought the shovel or dug with that shovel. Linda was always beaming. She was proud. I was the one that she brought along. I was her personal thing toy. She loved to tell Greg, see, I told you he was a tough guy. And I would feed off of that. I gotta be honest, when she would say that I was feeling really good. Greg would say things like, I'm like a son to him. Which made it a whole new level of family. I am now deep into the life.

[Steve Fishman]

And

[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

it's way past ankles, it's way past knees, because, let's face it, I gave a guy a flat. He's dead. I dug a grave. I know somebody's laying in that grave. I still don't know who it is to this day that's close to chest or neck deep. Because the next time I'm going to probably have to watch him shoot somebody.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Friend]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Friend]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson's Friend]

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[Anna Navarro]

I'm Anna Navarro and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world. Because I know deep down inside right now we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on. I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. These victims have been let down time and time again for decades and decades and decades by local law enforcement, by federal law enforcement, by administration after administration.

[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

The Justice Department through I think we

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.

[Anna Navarro]

Listen to Bleep with Ada Navarro as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Will Kill You Podcast Host]

Usually on this podcast, We'll Kill youl, we talk about the diseases, infections and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out we are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neatly rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20 through February 17, with new episodes every Tuesday. Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to this podcast will kill you as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Larry (Narrator of Mob Story)]

So one day we're in the office at the back of the Club, Greg's office. That's where we run our gambling and numbers from the day to day operations. And Donnie's one of our number runners. He comes walking in as usual. Donnie was a big guy, little heavy set, and he comes every single day to the club to drop off the numbers. Donnie came in the club. I was sitting at the desk. Greg Jr. Was on the couch. Bobby Zam was in there. Carmine Cessel was in there, part of Greg's crew. And when he came in, Donnie. I got up to let Donnie sit down, and I went and stood by the door. After Greg takes the money, counts it deliberately, he looks up to Donnie and he says, hey, Donnie, what is this I hear? I'm a rat. Everyone just got quiet now, in this life. And Greg told me this once before, if somebody calls you a rat, you have the right to kill them on the spot. They have to have proof. They have to be 100% certain to make a statement like that. What is this I hear? I'm a rat. Donnie's face turned white. You could see him getting clammy and sweaty. I mean, his temperature must have really shot up. And he tried to talk his way out of. He says, greg, come on. I was drunk. We were just having some nonsense talk. So Greg asked him, you don't have any proof? He says, no, of course not. I would never be able to prove something like that. It's not true. Did you have no proof? No. He reached into the drawer, pulled out a.38, and shot him from about two feet away, right across the desk. I was less than 6ft away when the gun blasted. Blood goes spraying around. We all sort of turned away. I remember Carmine diving away from the door. You know, nobody wants to get hit with a stray bullet or anything. The guy just fell to the floor. All of us were shocked because none of us knew this was gonna happen. Greg walked from behind the desk, and he put one more behind his ear. That's his trademark. He told Bobby, take a walk to the carpet store, which was just a block away. Order a carpet, roll this up and get it out of here. So we literally rolled him up in the carpet, carried him out in broad daylight, threw him in the trunk, and Carmine drove off with him. Me and Bobby walked to the carpet store, and he picked out this weird orange color. It was like a burnt orange. We had, like, brown paneling on the walls. The ceiling was probably a light cream color, and the color did not match Greg's office at all. We all just start laughing when we realize it doesn't really match. And that was an issue. Greg was upset about that. Bobby, what the fuck? What color is this? I mean, rust. How does rust match with my office? Bobby Zam is colorblind and nobody knew it. You think people would be more concerned with a stiff being carried out and thrown in a trunk in broad daylight? Greg could be so brazen. The wrong color carpet might have been a major irritation to Greg, but in my mind, I just witnessed a man being killed. There is no turning back. I don't know in my own heart of hearts or head what it is that really made me like him. As much as I cared for Greg and as much as I wanted to protect him, I understood that his nickname was there for a reason. He'll take you to dinner and for dessert, he'll kill you. There was no scruples. There was no ethics. He wanted to get a grenade launcher. Launched a grenade into one of the clubs that we knew would blow them all up. Our acting boss at the time said it's unethical. He had plans of dressing as FBI agents. I remember asking him, we're gonna need licenses or, you know, IDs and badges. Tells me, don't worry, I can get them. So I said, this guy's a genius. He can do everything. We get a message. Nikki Black sends a message to my Uncle Albert. He tells him he was gonna kill me. Nikki Black was a longtime good fella, longtime made guy. He was a scary guy. He had a scary look. But being Greg's right hand man, the Grim Reaper's right hand man, I wasn't ready for fear. I wasn't ready to be worried about him. I know he'll kill me if he gets a chance. There's no doubt about it. My main thing was we gotta get him first. Right around Christmas time, we're driving past Nikki's club. I had my binoculars. I was looking down the street and. And I spot him. That's Nicky's truck. There's Nikki. And Greg just said, let's get him. It was like a kid who found his lost dog. I had a baseball hat on, sunglasses and a bandana. Greg had a baseball hat and sunglasses. Jimmy had a baseball hat and sunglasses. So we were sort of looking like cops. Greg had his rifle. I was in the back with a shotgun. I was a backup shooter. Thank God, I was ready. So we started inching up. Niki, he takes off. He doesn't see us. We miss him. At the light, he makes a left. We follow, he makes another left. He's heading back in the same direction he came from. We're right behind him. He pulls over. We had a siren, coffee cups in the window. So we were looking like cops doing surveillance. As we pull up, your adrenaline's going. You feel those butterflies in your stomach. Things go in slow motion. And Greg's going to grab his rifle. And I hear him fumbling over himself. He hits the wrong button. Instead of hitting the safety, he hits the bullet clip. I hear the bullets come falling out. And he had no bullets. Now, I was the main shooter. I leaned out the window. None of them budged. As we pulled up alongside, I put the shotgun probably three inches right behind his head, behind his ear. He stiffens up, and I pulled the trigger. His nose hit the windshield. His nephew, Joe, Joe T, they called him, was in the passenger seat, got hit with a couple of pellets. I heard him screaming. The neighbors heard the screams from miles away. We were driving away, and I still heard him screaming. I could still hear that scream. When you become a trigger man, there is a big difference. And I felt it. I felt now that I was the powerful force Greg was. And Greg had a way of projecting that pride, that good job thing. He would come over, grab my hand in a hearty shake, pull me closer and give me a kiss on the cheek, like it was something sacred that just happened. After this monumental hit, Jimmy and I have to get to his house to babysit his daughter. The wife was a little upset that we got there late and the first thing we do is pour two scotches and put on Seinfeld. We were hysterical, watching Jerry run down the street. It was too much. And I'll never forget the laughing with that bread under his arm. We were driving back to Greg's house and we passed the scene. And it was like a dream. Thousands of people, the whole neighborhood, they all know Nikki Black. And I remember a group of kids standing on the corner watching this whole thing unravel. And I opened the window and I says, hey, what's going on? And the kids look at me, say, oh, my God, somebody killed Nikki Black. And I said, no kidding. I shut the window. I saw my face, a reflection. And in that split couple of seconds, I remember thinking to myself, how did I go from a young, innocent, well brought up teenager to cold blooded assassin? But I was safe. Being the shooter made me safe. No longer was I the hunted. Now I've become the hunter. But I also realized to take a life is the ultimate bad deed. But when you're in that life, it's a fine line that is the question. And that is my regret that I allowed myself to get into that life. And, and, and you know, if you believe in God. I do. And try to talk to him. Where did I go wrong? It does make me emotional because there are two Larry's. The one before I got into mob life and the one who could talk cold hearted about doing some very bad things. I could never completely forgive myself. And it'll be a lifelong battle.

[Steve Fishman]

Larry served 10 years in prison for killing four people. He received a light sentence because he cooperated. Yep, Larry was a rat. Why? Well, like everything else in his criminal career, he followed in the Grim Reaper's footsteps. The Grim Reaper had been an informant for the FBI for decades. Once Larry learned that, he figured he could inform too. Who did Larry testify against? That's right. His mob daddy, the Grim Reaper. For more on Larry's story, read his book the Life A true story about a Brooklyn boy seduced into the dark world of the Mafia. The creator and host of Lives of Crime is Steve Fishman. Executive producers Steve Fishman and Kevin Wardes. Senior producer Simon Rentner. Producer and engineer Austin Smith. Story editor Dan Bobkoff. Our sound designer is Bianca Salinas. Assistant producer Eric Axelrod. Special thanks to the inimitable Fisher Stevens, the glamorous Rhea Julian and our agents at wme, Evan Krasek, Marissa Hurwitz, Ben Davis. Lives of Crime is a production of Orbit Media in association with Signal Company Number One. Follow us @orbitmediafm on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.